Litwin
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Ahhh so you have intimate knowledge of how UAI works, how long have you been an F-35 pilot? You're making shit up, you know it, and everyone knows it.UAI show it as an error, but BRU-67,68 (or Scorpion ERU as well) still hold it, until it is dropped by a selective jettison. And if you armed your Mk-83s with the mechanical fuses M904, M905 and MAU-182 Ring and Swivel Assemblies, it can even blast.
No, the stupid isn't using dumb bombs for terrain denial it's the notion of using stealth fighters that aren't able to drop them, despite the majority of assets in that area are.Just speak with people, it is not a big secret. Sure, officially they will denie it, but isn't wasting PGMs for a terrain denial mission even more stupid?
I guess it's also pretty stupid you're a grown man pretending to "speak with people" about some secret capabilities of F-35s flying in Iraq that you clearly cannot source. What are you 12?
Nope. See thread title, it's F-35s versus S-400s. You are the one who will continue to pigeonhole the discussion hoping to get the results you want, I think you're almost at the point of declaring F-35s must be flown by pilots with vision issues and shaky hands.Don't forget, that we are discussing about an abstract situation "The Best S-400 Operator Against The Worst F-35 Operator".
Hah hah the old "immunity" schtick. There is no "too close" since you have no idea how close they can get in a jamming environment, and if GPS jammers are broadcasting they are the targets for HARMs, SDBs, etc. the worse place in a scenario involving F-35s would be something screeching RF nonstop since it'll be geolocated the biggest target.GPS-jammers are almost immune from Paveway IV strike because of a simple reason - they are covered with S-400 and AAA. To drop the bomb, F-35 needs to came too close to SAM and AAA positions, and a bomb itself is a good target for Tunguskas.
And yes, don't forget that Tunguskas can try to hit your MLRS M-31 rockets as well.
I don't believe that.I do not believe that. There are pilots better then others.UAI show it as an error, but BRU-67,68 (or Scorpion ERU as well) still hold it, until it is dropped by a selective jettison. And if you armed your Mk-83s with the mechanical fuses M904, M905 and MAU-182 Ring and Swivel Assemblies, it can even blast.Nonsense. F-35 uses UAI, any weapon that hasn't been certified and implemented in the UAI wouldn't show as an option at a given station in the cockpit and cannot be delivered.
It's America, bro. A dollar saved is two dollars earned.
Just speak with people, it is not a big secret. Sure, officially they will denie it, but isn't wasting PGMs for a terrain denial mission even more stupid?You claim about F-35As using unguided bombs in Iraq is complete bullshit. I'd love to see your source on this, you're saying that for some reason with all the 4th gen assets available in Iraq the USAF decided to work around the very strict weapons certification and software requirements of F-35s to use them to drop dumb bombs they weren't designed to drop. It's so stupid it's funny.
Don't forget, that we are discussing about an abstract situation "The Best S-400 Operator Against The Worst F-35 Operator".You're making assumptions about what S-400 in wartime situation with standoff/standin/escort jamming, decoys flying in, antiradiation missiles being launched at radiation sources, about whether they can see stealth aircraft, and assumptions that GPS jammers are immune to attack to prevent Paveway 4 from using GPS, and making assumptions about the utility of Spear that are unfounded. Real world isn't some uncluttered environment where radarThird: The Paveway IV will be almost unguided in a frontal attack against S-400, because if F-35 see and can mark position of S-400, then S-400 clearly see F-35 and can shoot it down. So, only INS, only hardcore.
Fourth: Yes, Brits try to make "SPEAR Cap 3" specially against S-400, but it will be integrated with Block 4 not earlier than in 2024, and, looks like, it will be even less useful than SDB-2.
GPS-jammers are almost immune from Paveway IV strike because of a simple reason - they are covered with S-400 and AAA. To drop the bomb, F-35 needs to came too close to SAM and AAA positions, and a bomb itself is a good target for Tunguskas.
And yes, don't forget that Tunguskas can try to hit your MLRS M-31 rockets as well.
There are NO Worst F-35 Pilots. All of them are the cream of the crop much like the F-22. They are handpicked from other fighters. Hate to break it to you but Larry, Mo and Curly won't be running the British Royal Air Force.
There are no NEW pilots flying the F-35 ANYWHERE. All are high time pilots which equates to a high degree of skill level. They are hand picked from other Fighter Units. There are NO "WORST" F-35 pilots.
Do you have any experience in the military, aviation or other sophisticated tech development? The safety is our priority, isn't it? Now, tell me, pls, what else can UAI do in "no response from the bomb"situation? The safety protocol must be short, simple and reliable. Can it call "911" and ask for help independently? No, it is a stealth fighter, it must be able to work without any communication at all. To jettison it immediately and independently? No, it can be unsafe. To block it on the BRU? No, it can be unsafe to land with the damaged bomb.Ahhh so you have intimate knowledge of how UAI works, how long have you been an F-35 pilot?UAI show it as an error, but BRU-67,68 (or Scorpion ERU as well) still hold it, until it is dropped by a selective jettison. And if you armed your Mk-83s with the mechanical fuses M904, M905 and MAU-182 Ring and Swivel Assemblies, it can even blast.
It depends from the whole situation. In the situation "All US F-35s vs small isolated group of Nicaraguan separatists and a Chines S-400 battalion in the minimal complectation" S-400 will suck.Nope. See thread title, it's F-35s versus S-400s. You are the one who will continue to pigeonhole the discussion hoping to get the results you want, I think you're almost at the point of declaring F-35s must be flown by pilots with vision issues and shaky hands.Don't forget, that we are discussing about an abstract situation "The Best S-400 Operator Against The Worst F-35 Operator".
Ha! May be, I have no idea, but many professionals certainly have. That's why they are searching other ways to crush S-400.Hah hah the old "immunity" schtick. There is no "too close" since you have no idea how close they can get in a jamming environment, and if GPS jammers are broadcasting they are the targets for HARMs, SDBs, etc. the worse place in a scenario involving F-35s would be something screeching RF nonstop since it'll be geolocated the biggest target.
Do you have any experience in the military, aviation or other sophisticated tech development? The safety is our priority, isn't it? Now, tell me, pls, what else can UAI do in "no response from the bomb"situation? The safety protocol must be short, simple and reliable. Can it call "911" and ask for help independently? No, it is a stealth fighter, it must be able to work without any communication at all. To jettison it immediately and independently? No, it can be unsafe. To block it on the BRU? No, it can be unsafe to land with the damaged bomb.Ahhh so you have intimate knowledge of how UAI works, how long have you been an F-35 pilot?UAI show it as an error, but BRU-67,68 (or Scorpion ERU as well) still hold it, until it is dropped by a selective jettison. And if you armed your Mk-83s with the mechanical fuses M904, M905 and MAU-182 Ring and Swivel Assemblies, it can even blast.
So, the only reasonable safety protocol is "Inform the pilot. Hold the bomb on the BRU untul the pilot's jettison command".
It depends from the whole situation. In the situation "All US F-35s vs small isolated group of Nicaraguan separatists and a Chines S-400 battalion in the minimal complectation" S-400 will suck.Nope. See thread title, it's F-35s versus S-400s. You are the one who will continue to pigeonhole the discussion hoping to get the results you want, I think you're almost at the point of declaring F-35s must be flown by pilots with vision issues and shaky hands.Don't forget, that we are discussing about an abstract situation "The Best S-400 Operator Against The Worst F-35 Operator".
In situation "British F-35 (in their real current status) vs Scottish militants and a Russian S-400 battalion in the full complectation, covered with Tinguskas" - F-35s will knee and gobble.
Ha! May be, I have no idea, but many professionals certainly have. That's why they are searching other ways to crush S-400.Hah hah the old "immunity" schtick. There is no "too close" since you have no idea how close they can get in a jamming environment, and if GPS jammers are broadcasting they are the targets for HARMs, SDBs, etc. the worse place in a scenario involving F-35s would be something screeching RF nonstop since it'll be geolocated the biggest target.
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Do you really think, that those photos of the burning Turkish vechicles were made from the Syrian F-35s?
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"The aviation beats tanks", you know...
Yes.Do you have any experience in the military, aviation or other sophisticated tech development?
In other words you have a bunch of assumptions about how UAI works, no real experience with it, yet are stating as fact that F-35s are using uncertified dumb bombs in Iraq.The safety is our priority, isn't it? Now, tell me, pls, what else can UAI do in "no response from the bomb"situation? The safety protocol must be short, simple and reliable. Can it call "911" and ask for help independently? No, it is a stealth fighter, it must be able to work without any communication at all. To jettison it immediately and independently? No, it can be unsafe. To block it on the BRU? No, it can be unsafe to land with the damaged bomb.
So, the only reasonable safety protocol is "Inform the pilot. Hold the bomb on the BRU untul the pilot's jettison command"
Unrealistic scenarios aren't interesting to me, why not ponder on F-35s versus dragons from Game of Thrones too?It depends from the whole situation. In the situation "All US F-35s vs small isolated group of Nicaraguan separatists and a Chines S-400 battalion in the minimal complectation" S-400 will suck.
In situation "British F-35 (in their real current status) vs Scottish militants and a Russian S-400 battalion in the full complectation, covered with Tinguskas" - F-35s will knee and gobble.
So you admit you have no idea about something you are using as the cornerstone of your argument. Why am I not surprised?Ha! May be, I have no idea, but many professionals certainly have. That's why they are searching other ways to crush S-400.
Destroyed by Scottish militants?Do you really think, that those photos of the burning Turkish vechicles were made from the Syrian F-35s?
Really?Yes.
In other words you can't even imagine any reasonable alternative safety protocol for the " unresponding bomb" situation, can you? And do you really think, that the wasting $2.8M ordnance just to clear a little forest is a good idea?The safety is our priority, isn't it? Now, tell me, pls, what else can UAI do in "no response from the bomb"situation? The safety protocol must be short, simple and reliable. Can it call "911" and ask for help independently? No, it is a stealth fighter, it must be able to work without any communication at all. To jettison it immediately and independently? No, it can be unsafe. To block it on the BRU? No, it can be unsafe to land with the damaged bomb.
So, the only reasonable safety protocol is "Inform the pilot. Hold the bomb on the BRU untul the pilot's jettison command"
In other words you have a bunch of assumptions about how UAI works, no real experience with it, yet are stating as fact that F-35s are using uncertified dumb bombs in Iraq.
How many US F-35s pilots said you tete a tete that they never use unguided weapons in Iraq?Again, where is your source for F-35s dropping unguided weapons in Iraq?
"A lonely F-35 vs a lonely S-400" is an unrealistic scenario anyway. It is a simplification, but any model is a simplification, it is why the model can be useful at all.Unrealistic scenarios aren't interesting to me, why not ponder on F-35s versus dragons from Game of Thrones too?
[/QUOTE]So you admit you have no idea about something you are using as the cornerstone of your argument. Why am I not surprised?Ha! May be, I have no idea, but many professionals certainly have. That's why they are searching other ways to crush S-400.
No. Destroyed by Syrian aviation.Destroyed by Scottish militants?Do you really think, that those photos of the burning Turkish vechicles were made from the Syrian F-35s?
Don't you think, that there can be a lot of Scottish militants in Scotland? And 70 clicks from HMNB Clyde is a pretty deep in the Scottish territory. And yes, don't forget, pls that the green men commander can send few Tunguskas to meet your MLRSs at the march - PHA have many spies in Scotland, but FSA have many spies in England, too.That seems to be your standard ace-in-the-hole demon around here? They just pop up out of nowhere and tip the scales!
1. So you're basically confirming you're just making assumptions about how UAI works when stating it's easy to just strap any uncertified bomb on there right?In other words you can't even imagine any reasonable alternative safety protocol for the " unresponding bomb" situation, can you? And do you really think, that the wasting $2.8M ordnance just to clear a little forest is a good idea?
Ahh the Qanus Island bombing. Those were PGMs, look at the exact dispersion. Here are some press releases on it:
Yes, that is another one. Why not propose a realistic one?"A lonely F-35 vs a lonely S-400" is an unrealistic scenario anyway. It is a simplification, but any model is a simplification, it is why the model can be useful at all.
Yes.Do you have any idea why S-400 is often named as "A2/AD system"?
No. I said, that there is no, and couldn't be, any alternative safety protocol for the "unresponding bomb" situation.1. So you're basically confirming you're just making assumptions about how UAI works when stating it's easy to just strap any uncertified bomb on there right?
F-35s can carry and even drop the unguided bombs. And you don't know any F-35 pilot, who claim the opposite, do you?2. It has nothing to do with how smart it is to drop smart weapons to clear a forest, and more to do with using F-35s to drop bombs they don't carry.
Because reality is much more complicated. Ok. There are "Defender-2020" drills. General (unrealistic, too) conception is rather simple: "Russia invades Baltic states, European and American allies fight Russia and defend Baltic. There is Kaliningrad's region with Russian A2/AD systems (including five regiments of S-400 and one regiment of S-300V4). To be able to protect Spratslands, we need to crush the IADS first." The question is simple: "Can European NATO members (without American help) crush that systems with their airforces, or they have to find an alternative way?"Yes, that is another one. Why not propose a realistic one?"A lonely F-35 vs a lonely S-400" is an unrealistic scenario anyway. It is a simplification, but any model is a simplification, it is why the model can be useful at all.
No. I said, that there is no, and couldn't be, any alternative safety protocol for the "unresponding bomb" situation.1. So you're basically confirming you're just making assumptions about how UAI works when stating it's easy to just strap any uncertified bomb on there right?
And, you don't have even a spark of idea, what alternative security protocol could be there.
F-35s can carry and even drop the unguided bombs. And you don't know any F-35 pilot, who claim the opposite, do you?2. It has nothing to do with how smart it is to drop smart weapons to clear a forest, and more to do with using F-35s to drop bombs they don't carry.
Because reality is much more complicated. Ok. There are "Defender-2020" drills. General (unrealistic, too) conception is rather simple: "Russia invades Baltic states, European and American allies fight Russia and defend Baltic. There is Kaliningrad's region with Russian A2/AD systems (including five regiments of S-400 and one regiment of S-300V4). To be able to protect Spratslands, we need to crush the IADS first." The question is simple: "Can European NATO members (without American help) crush that systems with their airforces, or they have to find an alternative way?"Yes, that is another one. Why not propose a realistic one?"A lonely F-35 vs a lonely S-400" is an unrealistic scenario anyway. It is a simplification, but any model is a simplification, it is why the model can be useful at all.
Me not having an idea is different than you not having any idea then claiming something can be done when you have no idea. If you haven't flown in an F-35 that uses UAI then all you're doing is speculating, so you're hilariously using speculation to back up your idiotic claim that the F-35 has been using dumb bombs to clear forests in Iraq.No. I said, that there is no, and couldn't be, any alternative safety protocol for the "unresponding bomb" situation.
And, you don't have even a spark of idea, what alternative security protocol could be there.
No, they can't. You're making something up and it's funny to watch. I can look at a list of weapons that have been certified to carry on F-35 with each block software/hardware release and see there are no unguided bombs. I can look at the projected schedule for additional weapons integration and see no unguided bombs.F-35s can carry and even drop the unguided bombs. And you don't know any F-35 pilot, who claim the opposite, do you?
USA is a member of NATO, why wouldn't they help?Because reality is much more complicated. Ok. There are "Defender-2020" drills. General (unrealistic, too) conception is rather simple: "Russia invades Baltic states, European and American allies fight Russia and defend Baltic. There is Kaliningrad's region with Russian A2/AD systems (including five regiments of S-400 and one regiment of S-300V4). To be able to protect Spratslands, we need to crush the IADS first." The question is simple: "Can European NATO members (without American help) crush that systems with their airforces, or they have to find an alternative way?"
May be USA are more interested in fighting China, than in the defending useless Spratslands. May be USA are not satisfied with the current level of European defence. May be something else.USA is a member of NATO, why wouldn't they help?
Do you know the difference between a dumb bomb sand a JDAM? Please tell us, we all want to know.
Do you know the difference between a dumb bomb sand a JDAM? Please tell us, we all want to know.
Joint Direct Attack Munition - Wikipedia
Orly? If so - tell us about how exactly UAI see Mk83, and what is the difference with a damaged GBU-16 or 32?Do you know the difference between a dumb bomb sand a JDAM? Please tell us, we all want to know.
Joint Direct Attack Munition - Wikipedia
I didn't ask for a cut and paste or a Wiki link. I asked you to define the difference in your own words. I can.
Orly? If so - tell us about how exactly UAI see Mk83, and what is the difference with a damaged GBU-16 or 32?Do you know the difference between a dumb bomb sand a JDAM? Please tell us, we all want to know.
Joint Direct Attack Munition - Wikipedia
I didn't ask for a cut and paste or a Wiki link. I asked you to define the difference in your own words. I can.