Expanded background checks fails in Senate

I guess we can re-address abortion as a right then as that is an extension of the natural right to privacy. The SCOTUS was pretty clear, that right exists as a natural function of the numerated rights you have and to deny that is silly let alone completely lacking in any real legal sense.

It is funny that I hear this coming from you. It is rare that anyone other than the far right makes the claim that privacy is not a right. Are you adopting their standards?

There is no blanket constitutionally-mandated right to privacy.
That is a statement without meaning. There either is or is not a constitutional right to privacy. There is no such thing as a ‘blanket’ right. There is no right that is not limited by the rights of others. You can speak but you cannot slander, you can bear arms but you cannot kill without just cause, you have the right of assembly but not in my living room. Trying to marginalize the right because there are instances where it must be infringed in order to serve the rights of others is dishonest.

The right exists. Simple as that.
Otherwise, metal detectors in public places, like courthouses, would be unconstitutional. as would carry-on luggage x-rays in airports.
No, not at all. Those are not instances that have anything to do with privacy. You are mischaracterizing what privacy is. You have the right to privacy but you are essentially waving much of that when you go into public and do the things that you are referring to.

I can parallel this with speech. You clearly have the right to speak, assemble and protest but that does not mean you can do that inside a courthouse, airport or a myriad of other places either. Just because you have a right does not mean that you can exercise it wherever you choose and others that are being trampled on be damned. That was never implied.
The question is this:

Is invasion of privacy demanded by a clear threat to the public's safety?

The answer, in the case of metal detectors, airport x-ray machines, and background checks on weapon sales is, clearly, yes.

If there is no clear threat to the public's safety, then the answer is no.
Well, no, not IMHO. You are a little off there. Clear threats to safety are a valid concern but more so, I think, has to do with where you are and what you are doing. When you go to a public place and utilize a public service (or a private service provided to the public) others have a reasonable expectation of safety and have a reasonable expectation that certain steps are followed. You willingly wave one or more rights when entering airports and the like. You have no right to a flight. You have no right to enter a building that has metal detectors in the front. Doing so is a decision that you make and an affirmation that you are waiving a right to enter an area.

There is no difference with that and a ‘gun free zone.’ There is nothing unconstitutional with a gun free zone because it is not infringing on your right to bear arms. You still have that right, you just d not get to demand that you can exercise that right over the right of others to decide what happens on their land (or the government on its land).
So, for instance, blanket wiretaps on the public's phone lines is an unacceptable invasion of privacy...

But, wiretaps on phone lines that are placed, with a warrant, due to reasonable suspicion, are not.
Because the judicial process has been followed. This has nothing to do with what we are discussing as this process was directly authorized by the bill of rights.

The right that we are discussing extends naturally from:
‘The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.’
Giving the base for legal wiretapping. There is a clear exception for searches in your right after legal processes have been followed.

A vast majority of Americans believe that background checks on weapon sales are not an undue burden on the sellers of said weapons, when weighted against the danger to the public safety presented by criminals and the insane obtaining guns.
And this particular offshoot in this thread was not about background checks. You have to go a bit further back but the very first quote that you responded to was directly about requirements to register all weapons. If you read through the beginning of this thread, the one glaring problem is that such a requirement (for universal background checks) is completely and totally unenforceable without some sort of registry. It is no more enforceable than the current law that requires a seller to refuse a sale to anyone that they know cannot legally own a weapon.

In one case, they refuse to acknowledge they knew the original purchaser was not allowed to own a weapon. Under the new law, they would just have to refuse to acknowledge that they sold the gun in the first place.

That is your core problem and where privacy plays into this. Unlike every single example used, a gun registry would be integral to exercising your right. Unlike metal detectors where they are placed in areas that you simply do not enter and land that you do not own a gun registry would demand that you must be registered and recorded just for simply accessing your right in the first place. It is an invasion demanding that what you own be recorded so that the government can keep track of your possessions.
 
I guess we can re-address abortion as a right then as that is an extension of the natural right to privacy. The SCOTUS was pretty clear, that right exists as a natural function of the numerated rights you have and to deny that is silly let alone completely lacking in any real legal sense.

It is funny that I hear this coming from you. It is rare that anyone other than the far right makes the claim that privacy is not a right. Are you adopting their standards?

There is no blanket constitutionally-mandated right to privacy.

Otherwise, metal detectors in public places, like courthouses, would be unconstitutional. as would carry-on luggage x-rays in airports.

The question is this:

Is invasion of privacy demanded by a clear threat to the public's safety?

The answer, in the case of metal detectors, airport x-ray machines, and background checks on weapon sales is, clearly, yes.

If there is no clear threat to the public's safety, then the answer is no.

So, for instance, blanket wiretaps on the public's phone lines is an unacceptable invasion of privacy...

But, wiretaps on phone lines that are placed, with a warrant, due to reasonable suspicion, are not.

A vast majority of Americans believe that background checks on weapon sales are not an undue burden on the sellers of said weapons, when weighted against the danger to the public safety presented by criminals and the insane obtaining guns.
Wow.
You so VERY clearly do not know what you;re talking about.
 
I don't understand what the problem with this bill is.

Someone will have to explain why it didn't pass even though it won 54-46 in the Senate.

How are universal background checks an infringement on the 2nd Amendment?

Aren't the Constitutionalists here not aware of the part of the 2nd Amendment that clearly says, "well-regulated"?

Aren't you not aware that "well-regulated" was for the militia? What does that have to do with me?

Second, "well-regulated" meant proper training to function as a unit. not as a control of the types of weapons the militia members were bearing.
 
I don't understand what the problem with this bill is.

Someone will have to explain why it didn't pass even though it won 54-46 in the Senate.

How are universal background checks an infringement on the 2nd Amendment?

Aren't the Constitutionalists here not aware of the part of the 2nd Amendment that clearly says, "well-regulated"?
We already have background checks does this clear it up for you?
 
The wording in that Bill was dealing with not only criminal background check, but also fuzzy wording with "mental disorder".....not mentally ill. It gave too much wiggle room in the interpretation of the language.
If they had done it right, I think they could have gotten some background check through the Senate that dealt with gun shows.
I think most Americans weren't aware of the wording and the ramifications of this Bill.
 
The wording in that Bill was dealing with not only criminal background check, but also fuzzy wording with "mental disorder".....not mentally ill. It gave too much wiggle room in the interpretation of the language.
If they had done it right, I think they could have gotten some background check through the Senate that dealt with gun shows.
I think most Americans weren't aware of the wording and the ramifications of this Bill.

They do background checks at gun shows.
 
The wording in that Bill was dealing with not only criminal background check, but also fuzzy wording with "mental disorder".....not mentally ill. It gave too much wiggle room in the interpretation of the language.
If they had done it right, I think they could have gotten some background check through the Senate that dealt with gun shows.
I think most Americans weren't aware of the wording and the ramifications of this Bill.

They do background checks at gun shows.

Ummm, not at the federal level, and also, most states don't require it. Look at this site, Bigreb:
Gun Show Background Checks State Laws
 
The wording in that Bill was dealing with not only criminal background check, but also fuzzy wording with "mental disorder".....not mentally ill. It gave too much wiggle room in the interpretation of the language.
If they had done it right, I think they could have gotten some background check through the Senate that dealt with gun shows.
I think most Americans weren't aware of the wording and the ramifications of this Bill.

They do background checks at gun shows.

Ummm, not at the federal level, and also, most states don't require it. Look at this site, Bigreb:
Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

I hate to say it but your information is wrong.
Look at Utah Laws for Background Checks at Gun Shows according to your source it says not required
But from a gun show run in Utah it says

ALL TRANSACTIONS MUST BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LAWS.
Vendor Information | Crossroads of the West Gunshows
 
They do background checks at gun shows.

Ummm, not at the federal level, and also, most states don't require it. Look at this site, Bigreb:
Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

I hate to say it but your information is wrong.
Look at Utah Laws for Background Checks at Gun Shows according to your source it says not required
But from a gun show run in Utah it says

ALL TRANSACTIONS MUST BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LAWS.
Vendor Information | Crossroads of the West Gunshows

I think the wording is licensed dealer and a private party seller at gun shows. One has to have a background check and the other doesn't. The federal law could have closed that loophole
 
I thought we already had background checks? I do think that the mentally ill shouldn't get the guns, but I do wonder what exactly Obama is doing.

Almost all would agree with you, but, the wording wasn't "mentally ill", it was "mental disorder". Having an anxiety attack and seeking help could have prohibited you from getting a gun. The wording was too loose and not specific.
 
Ummm, not at the federal level, and also, most states don't require it. Look at this site, Bigreb:
Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

I hate to say it but your information is wrong.
Look at Utah Laws for Background Checks at Gun Shows according to your source it says not required
But from a gun show run in Utah it says

ALL TRANSACTIONS MUST BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LAWS.
Vendor Information | Crossroads of the West Gunshows

I think the wording is licensed dealer and a private party seller at gun shows. One has to have a background check and the other doesn't. The federal law could have closed that loophole

However your source is saying that no background check is required.
I know for a fact North Carolina is wrong.
You have to have a background check on all firearm purchases
But only a purchase permit is required for a hand gun.
 
I don't understand what the problem with this bill is.

Someone will have to explain why it didn't pass even though it won 54-46 in the Senate.

How are universal background checks an infringement on the 2nd Amendment?

Aren't the Constitutionalists here not aware of the part of the 2nd Amendment that clearly says, "well-regulated"?

A Cloture vote requires 2/3rd vote = 60

How is asking for ID an infringement on voting rights?

Are the dembulbs, around here, unaware of the definition of "infringed"?

:eusa_whistle:
 
I don't understand what the problem with this bill is.

Someone will have to explain why it didn't pass even though it won 54-46 in the Senate.

How are universal background checks an infringement on the 2nd Amendment?

Aren't the Constitutionalists here not aware of the part of the 2nd Amendment that clearly says, "well-regulated"?

A Cloture vote requires 2/3rd vote = 60

How is asking for ID an infringement on voting rights?

Are the dembulbs, around here, unaware of the definition of "infringed"?

:eusa_whistle:



I'll think not having to show an ID to vote is fine when we no longer have to show our IDs to enter most government buildings, to get on airplanes, to buy guns, to cash a check, to finance a house, etc.
 
I thought we already had background checks? I do think that the mentally ill shouldn't get the guns, but I do wonder what exactly Obama is doing.

Almost all would agree with you, but, the wording wasn't "mentally ill", it was "mental disorder". Having an anxiety attack and seeking help could have prohibited you from getting a gun. The wording was too loose and not specific.


Exactly...which gives Executive Branch regulators a lot of power to exclude whomever they wish from owning a gun.
 
I am listening to Armed American Radio now and they have on a Gun Rights supporter who supported the Toomey bill.

He is making a lot of sense and I wish I had heard him explain this before the vote. I may had supported it,
 
I thought we already had background checks? I do think that the mentally ill shouldn't get the guns, but I do wonder what exactly Obama is doing.

Almost all would agree with you, but, the wording wasn't "mentally ill", it was "mental disorder". Having an anxiety attack and seeking help could have prohibited you from getting a gun. The wording was too loose and not specific.

Not so fast. New York attempted to revoke a guy's pistol permit and take his guns over anxiety meds, he got a lawyer and the State caved. Ask yourself if there are ANY Law enforcement officers out there who might have ever been prescribed anxiety meds... The answer is absolutely. Until the same standards apply to Law enforcement, it's not going to fly.
 

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