Excellent Argument Against Gun Control

[driveby]

The lie of gun control? That in the nations that have regulations concerning who can own guns, and what kind of guns they can own have a lower death rate, by an order of magnitude, than we do? That is a proven fact.

Hate the 2nd amendment? Relocate to any one of your liberal utopia's......

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Dose of reality, indeed!

With the US at 10.2, we are better than;

Brazil 19.02

Colombia 11.1

El Salvador 41.11

Guatemala 38.52

Honduras 46.7

Jamaica 47.44

Mexico 11.07

Panama 10.92

South Africa 18.5

Swaziland 37.16

Now that is a peer group to be proud of, correct? Here is the other side of the coin;

Australia 1.5

Canada 2.3

Germany 1.1

United Kingdom 0.25

Sweden 1.47

Japan 0.07

Ireland 1.03

But you would rather we be like the first group. Nice to see where you think our nation should be going.

However some of those low ranking countries lead the U.S. in other methods of deaths, and being victimized.

Really? Links? And victimized in what way? Links or just chalk it down to flap-yap on your part.

Where was your link?

 

[Saigon]

Great comparison because we all know France, Germany and Spain are all similar in size and population to the US.........

Certainly France, Germany and Spain are all large, western capitalist economies with a lot of immigrants.

Which is exactly why Big Reb and 2nd Amendment want to ignore them, and focus on obviously dissimilar countries like Cuba, Colombia and Venezuela.

 

[Saigon]

Templar -

continued to spout your lies.

What lie have I posted on this thead?

Please be specific.

The lie of gun control. As specific as I need to get.

OK, so you could not find a single lie of mine on this thread.

I am amazed how often posters throw the lie word around - while apparently thinking nothing of lying themselves.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Great comparison because we all know France, Germany and Spain are all similar in size and population to the US.........

Certainly France, Germany and Spain are all large, western capitalist economies with a lot of immigrants.

Which is exactly why Big Reb and 2nd Amendment want to ignore them, and focus on obviously dissimilar countries like Cuba, Colombia and Venezuela.

France, Germany, and Spain are capitalist in name only....hell they're not even in name, their socialist countries.
France: Where fear and taboo control guns more than laws - CNN.com
I found this rather interesting.....
The laws are so strict they cannot be efficiently implemented. That is why, mostly for bureaucratic reasons, more than 16 million weapons are unaccounted for and kept illegally

For the next four years, the occupants, and the collaborationist regime of Vichy, simplified the system by executing anybody found in possession of a mere hunting rifle.

Gee I wonder why they did that?

Sure, a few months ago, a young French jihadist named Mohammed Merah massacred children in a Jewish school in Toulouse. In peaceful Norway, a neo-Nazi went on a nightmarish rampage

And this guy agrees with gun control, but effectively stated it's useless except to take our liberties.....


And this guy is for gun control, but effectively pointed out it is useless

 

[Saigon]

Buckeye -

.hell they're not even in name, their socialist countries.

Please go and do a little research. You don't do yourself any favours posting nonsense.

Germany has a CONSERVATIVE government.

Spain has a CONSERVATIVE government.

 

[Darkwind]

2nd Amendment -

It is entirely possible for the research here to both be correct, while producing what might seem to be contradictory findings.

Of course there are instances where guns will prevent rapes, house break-ins or murders - I've never heard anyone suggest otherwise.

Likewise, of course there are instances where posession of a gun will turn a simply mugging into a murder, or a housebreak in into a shoot-out with multiple fatalities.

The fact remains that numerous studies have proven beyond any doubt that people owning weapons are more likely to die than those who do not.

that is just a flat out lie or misrepresentation of the statistic.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Buckeye -

.hell they're not even in name, their socialist countries.

Please go and do a little research. You don't do yourself any favours posting nonsense.

Germany has a CONSERVATIVE government.

Spain has a CONSERVATIVE government.

Saigon, please, first of all conservative in europe isnt close to conservative in the US. and Spain had a socialist government (yeah a SOCIALIST government) from the train bombing to like a year ago. Dont give partial information, give it all or dont say it.

I noticed France was absent.....look man you can say Germany is conservative, but that's like saying Ted Nugent is a liberal compared to me.....

 

[Saigon]

Buckeye -

Spain had a socialist government

Yes, it did.

Now it has a conservative government.

The People's Party (Spanish: Partido Popular [parˈtiðo popuˈlar] ( listen), PP [peˈpe]) is a conservative[2][7] political party in Spain.

The People's Party was a re-foundation in 1989 of the People's Alliance (Spanish: Alianza Popular, AP), a party led and founded by Manuel Fraga Iribarne, a former Minister of the Interior and Minister of Tourism during Francisco Franco's dictatorship. The new party combined the conservative AP with several small Christian democratic and liberal parties (the party call this fusion of views Reformist centre). In 2002, Manuel Fraga received the honorary title of "Founding Chairman".

People's Party (Spain) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Germany has a conservative government in any sense and interpretation of the word.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Buckeye -

Spain had a socialist government

Yes, it did.

Now it has a conservative government.

The People's Party (Spanish: Partido Popular [parˈtiðo popuˈlar] ( listen), PP [peˈpe]) is a conservative[2][7] political party in Spain.

The People's Party was a re-foundation in 1989 of the People's Alliance (Spanish: Alianza Popular, AP), a party led and founded by Manuel Fraga Iribarne, a former Minister of the Interior and Minister of Tourism during Francisco Franco's dictatorship. The new party combined the conservative AP with several small Christian democratic and liberal parties (the party call this fusion of views Reformist centre). In 2002, Manuel Fraga received the honorary title of "Founding Chairman".

People's Party (Spain) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Germany has a conservative government in any sense and interpretation of the word.

They've been in power for like 1 year, liberals cant even have Obama take blame on things after 4+ years.....

And again germany is conservative in a european way, doesnt translate over here my man.

 

[jgarden]

Facts are an excellent argument against gun control.

Well, here are some facts:

The US has four times as many homicides as any other developed country.

The US has been ten and twenty times as many gun-related homicides as any other developed country.

Some 50,000 Americans were deliberately shot last year.

The UK now has its lowest homicide rate for 30 years. Australia's rate of suicide plumetted since instituting gun control.

In the US, 14,748 people were killed by guns last year. In France the number was 682. In Germany it was 690. In Spain it was 390.

Keep this in mind when Comparing the US to other countries.
You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country.

We have a reigning governmental structure known as FEDERALISM.

The laws and Constitution of each State is vastly DIFFERENT from the laws and Constitution of every other State.

Also, within each State, the laws of each city and town are moderately DIFFERENT from the laws of every other city and town.

Also, keep in mind, that many federal laws (that are govern the whole nation), are executed differently in different states, especially when significant devolution procedures have been written into that law.

Countries, like the UK, are UNITARY governments. The variance in local laws are microscopic in places like the UK. Moderate differences in law are only seen between rural and urban regions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means, when you compare the laws of a UNITARY government, to the laws of the United States, are you no better off comparing Apples to a Smorgasbord.

In order to compare a UNITARY government to the United States, you should only consider Cities and towns that are governed by the same or very similar laws. Sometimes you MIGHT be able to compare them to an entire State, however, you can NEVER compare them to the entire Union.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also having a raging drug war (that should be legalized), remember that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the UK and Chicago have similar gun laws, we can safely compare them.

The best argument for gun control stems from a comparison of Detroit Michigan and Windsor Ontario (Canada).

Windsor Ontario is located approximately 1900 feet north of Detoit, has strict gun laws and recently went 27 months without a homicide.

Detroit is located at the other end of the Ambassador Bridge, averages approximately 1 homicide daily and a recent poll by the city's newspaper revealed that 50% of its residents would leave today due to gun violence.

This idea that "You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country," is nothing more than a conservative smokescreen to deflect criticism that places their position in a less than favorable light.

International comparisons are included every year in the CIA World Factbook - if a branch of the United States government doesn't consider comparisons invalid, why should "The2ndAmendment?"

The World Factbook

references :: guide to country comparisons

Country Comparison pages are presorted lists of data from selected Factbook data fields. Country Comparison pages are generally given in descending order - highest to lowest - such as Population and Area. The two exceptions are Unemployment Rate and Inflation Rate, which are in ascending - lowest to highest - order. Country Comparison pages are available for the following 76 fields in seven of the ten Factbook categories.

Geography ::

People and Society ::

Economy ::

Energy ::

Communications ::

Transportation ::

Military ::

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/rankorderguide.html

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well, here are some facts:

The US has four times as many homicides as any other developed country.

The US has been ten and twenty times as many gun-related homicides as any other developed country.

Some 50,000 Americans were deliberately shot last year.

The UK now has its lowest homicide rate for 30 years. Australia's rate of suicide plumetted since instituting gun control.

In the US, 14,748 people were killed by guns last year. In France the number was 682. In Germany it was 690. In Spain it was 390.

Keep this in mind when Comparing the US to other countries.
You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country.

We have a reigning governmental structure known as FEDERALISM.

The laws and Constitution of each State is vastly DIFFERENT from the laws and Constitution of every other State.

Also, within each State, the laws of each city and town are moderately DIFFERENT from the laws of every other city and town.

Also, keep in mind, that many federal laws (that are govern the whole nation), are executed differently in different states, especially when significant devolution procedures have been written into that law.

Countries, like the UK, are UNITARY governments. The variance in local laws are microscopic in places like the UK. Moderate differences in law are only seen between rural and urban regions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means, when you compare the laws of a UNITARY government, to the laws of the United States, are you no better off comparing Apples to a Smorgasbord.

In order to compare a UNITARY government to the United States, you should only consider Cities and towns that are governed by the same or very similar laws. Sometimes you MIGHT be able to compare them to an entire State, however, you can NEVER compare them to the entire Union.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also having a raging drug war (that should be legalized), remember that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the UK and Chicago have similar gun laws, we can safely compare them.

The best argument for gun control stems from a comparison of Detroit Michigan and Windsor Ontario (Canada).

Windsor Ontario is located approximately 1900 feet north of Detoit, has strict gun laws and recently went 27 months without a homicide.

Detroit is located at the other end of the Ambassador Bridge, averages approximately 1 homicide daily and a recent poll by the city's newspaper revealed that 50% of its residents would leave today due to gun violence.

This idea that "You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country," is nothing more than a conservative smokescreen to deflect criticism that places their position in a less than favorable light.

If international comparisons were considered invalid, why are they included every year in the CIA Yearbook - a branch of the United States government?

Are you realling comparing Detroit to Canada?

Gun Control Facts: Detroit Crime Rate is the Result Of Gun Control

Seems like they have pretty tough laws in Michigan, with all those checks, I cant imagine criminals and crazies getting them. But again are you comparing Detroit to Canada? seriously???

Detroit and Flint are high on murder rates, tell me all the things they have in common?

 

[Saigon]

Are you realling comparing Detroit to Canada?

No, he isn't - try reading the post again.

He is comparing one US city (Detroit) with one Canadian city (Windsor) which are located 1900 feet apart.

Once adjusted for population, it seems like a valid comparison to me.

 

[jgarden]

Ambassador Bridge

Localeetroit, Michigan – Windsor, Ontario

Total length - 7,500 feet (2,300 m)

Daily traffic: 10,000+ trucks per day, 4000+ autos per day

It is the busiest international border crossing in North America in terms of trade volume: more than 25 percent of all merchandise trade between the United States and Canada crosses the bridge.

150,000 jobs in the region and US$13 billion in annual production depend on the Detroit–Windsor international border crossing

The bridge is responsible for 60-70% of commercial truck traffic in the region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador_Bridge

Detroit and Windsor are joined by the Ambassador Bridge, the busiest international border crossing in North America in terms of trade volume, so it can hardly be argued that the 2 cities stand in isolation and have nothing in common.

Metro Windsor has a population of 319,246, can "buckeye45_73" produce American cities of that size that went 27 months without a homicide?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Are you realling comparing Detroit to Canada?

No, he isn't - try reading the post again.

He is comparing one US city (Detroit) with one Canadian city (Windsor) which are located 1900 feet apart.

Once adjusted for population, it seems like a valid comparison to me.

Are you saying that the Unites States is Unitary Government (although I know that's your wet dream), which allows us to make direct comparisons to other unitary nations?

 

[Saigon]

2nd Amendment -

Nowhere on this thread do I refer to 'unitary' government, nor consider it in any way relevent to the discussion.

If you consider Australia or Malaysia to be better comparison models for the US than France and Germany, go with that.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Keep this in mind when Comparing the US to other countries.
You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country.

We have a reigning governmental structure known as FEDERALISM.

The laws and Constitution of each State is vastly DIFFERENT from the laws and Constitution of every other State.

Also, within each State, the laws of each city and town are moderately DIFFERENT from the laws of every other city and town.

Also, keep in mind, that many federal laws (that are govern the whole nation), are executed differently in different states, especially when significant devolution procedures have been written into that law.

Countries, like the UK, are UNITARY governments. The variance in local laws are microscopic in places like the UK. Moderate differences in law are only seen between rural and urban regions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means, when you compare the laws of a UNITARY government, to the laws of the United States, are you no better off comparing Apples to a Smorgasbord.

In order to compare a UNITARY government to the United States, you should only consider Cities and towns that are governed by the same or very similar laws. Sometimes you MIGHT be able to compare them to an entire State, however, you can NEVER compare them to the entire Union.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also having a raging drug war (that should be legalized), remember that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the UK and Chicago have similar gun laws, we can safely compare them.

The best argument for gun control stems from a comparison of Detroit Michigan and Windsor Ontario (Canada).

Windsor Ontario is located approximately 1900 feet north of Detoit, has strict gun laws and recently went 27 months without a homicide.

Detroit is located at the other end of the Ambassador Bridge, averages approximately 1 homicide daily and a recent poll by the city's newspaper revealed that 50% of its residents would leave today due to gun violence.

This idea that "You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country," is nothing more than a conservative smokescreen to deflect criticism that places their position in a less than favorable light.

If international comparisons were considered invalid, why are they included every year in the CIA Yearbook - a branch of the United States government?

Are you realling comparing Detroit to Canada?

Gun Control Facts: Detroit Crime Rate is the Result Of Gun Control

Seems like they have pretty tough laws in Michigan, with all those checks, I cant imagine criminals and crazies getting them. But again are you comparing Detroit to Canada? seriously???

Detroit and Flint are high on murder rates, tell me all the things they have in common?

after reading the link it might be easier

to own a firearm in Canada then in Detroit

 

[beagle9]

Well, here are some facts:

The US has four times as many homicides as any other developed country.

The US has been ten and twenty times as many gun-related homicides as any other developed country.

Some 50,000 Americans were deliberately shot last year.

The UK now has its lowest homicide rate for 30 years. Australia's rate of suicide plumetted since instituting gun control.

In the US, 14,748 people were killed by guns last year. In France the number was 682. In Germany it was 690. In Spain it was 390.

Keep this in mind when Comparing the US to other countries.
You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country.

We have a reigning governmental structure known as FEDERALISM.

The laws and Constitution of each State is vastly DIFFERENT from the laws and Constitution of every other State.

Also, within each State, the laws of each city and town are moderately DIFFERENT from the laws of every other city and town.

Also, keep in mind, that many federal laws (that are govern the whole nation), are executed differently in different states, especially when significant devolution procedures have been written into that law.

Countries, like the UK, are UNITARY governments. The variance in local laws are microscopic in places like the UK. Moderate differences in law are only seen between rural and urban regions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means, when you compare the laws of a UNITARY government, to the laws of the United States, are you no better off comparing Apples to a Smorgasbord.

In order to compare a UNITARY government to the United States, you should only consider Cities and towns that are governed by the same or very similar laws. Sometimes you MIGHT be able to compare them to an entire State, however, you can NEVER compare them to the entire Union.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also having a raging drug war (that should be legalized), remember that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the UK and Chicago have similar gun laws, we can safely compare them.

The best argument for gun control stems from a comparison of Detroit Michigan and Windsor Ontario (Canada).

Windsor Ontario is located approximately 1900 feet north of Detoit, has strict gun laws and recently went 27 months without a homicide.

Detroit is located at the other end of the Ambassador Bridge, averages approximately 1 homicide daily and a recent poll by the city's newspaper revealed that 50% of its residents would leave today due to gun violence.

This idea that "You cannot compare the United States directly to any other country," is nothing more than a conservative smokescreen to deflect criticism that places their position in a less than favorable light.

International comparisons are included every year in the CIA World Factbook - if a branch of the United States government doesn't consider comparisons invalid, why should "The2ndAmendment?"

The World Factbook

references :: guide to country comparisons

Country Comparison pages are presorted lists of data from selected Factbook data fields. Country Comparison pages are generally given in descending order - highest to lowest - such as Population and Area. The two exceptions are Unemployment Rate and Inflation Rate, which are in ascending - lowest to highest - order. Country Comparison pages are available for the following 76 fields in seven of the ten Factbook categories.

Geography ::

People and Society ::

Economy ::

Energy ::

Communications ::

Transportation ::

Military ::

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/rankorderguide.html

Here is my problem with your way of thinking in life, where as instead of enforcing the laws and stopping the insanity, you would rather enforce martial law, and gun control is simply a part of that (imho).

You would rather take the good citizens liberties & freedoms that we have all enjoyed here, and all because of the bad that exist around us in this nation, and that is the way people like you think in life, and that is unacceptable. Can't you see the error in your thinking here ? It amazes me the way a liberal thinks, because it is leading this nation to a serious loss of it's respect and it's freedoms, but we know why this is happening, as a bigger picture is at hand here, and it's just ashamed that people can't get together and stop all this insanity finally. Blanket gun control is a step towards or is a first step in the implementation of marshal law in this nation, and this because the government has begun to fear what it has created in this nation, so it seeks to hide it's hand by using blanket rules or legislation that ensnares everyone regardless of their status in this nation.

 

[jgarden]

There are many liberal democracies throughout the world without a 2nd Amendment, whose citizens will tell you that they have every bit as much personal freedom as Americans.

 

[Saigon]

There are many liberal democracies throughout the world without a 2nd Amendment, whose citizens will tell you that they have every bit as much personal freedom as Americans.

I would argue that they have more.

Living in a city where one does not need to worry about being shot on the way to work, or ones kids being shot at school, is a freedom. Keeping in mind that more than 50,000 American's were deliberately shot last year, and I say those 50,000 people did not enjoy great freedom.