Everything we know about economics is wrong

[Brucethethinker]

What is a job? Most think a job is an arrangement between 2 people, whereby one of them works for the other and is paid wages. Another definition is that a job is a piece of work that needs to be done. Suppose you’re part of an Amish family. There are lots of jobs on the farm that need doing, and everyone does them. If the head of the family announces that today there are no jobs that need to be done, would that be a bad thing, or a good thing? If a job is work that needs doing, then high unemployment is a good thing, because it means it takes fewer of us to produce everything we need. People don’t want jobs, what they want are paychecks. If there’s nothing for them to do, that’s ok, just give them a paycheck.

You may will ask where the money will come from. To ask that question implies that money actually is something. Real money, such as gold and silver, actually exists. Fiat money, which is what we have, doesn’t really exist. Because we were so recently on the gold standard, and because we used real silver in coins until 1964, people are confused by fiat money.

We can pretend we have any amount of money we want. We can give everyone fiat money to buy food, and pay farmers fiat money to grow food. We don’t need taxes. We may want some taxes, such as cigarette taxes, to influence behavior, but we don’t need them to generate revenue for the government.

Suppose you, and the government, both want to buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle. The government taxes you so they can buy it, and since you now don’t have the money, you can’t buy it. With our technology today, Harley Davidson can make all the motorcycles they want. If they have to hire more people, that’s ok, there are plenty of people who want to work there.

The law of supply and demand no longer applies. If there’s a huge demand for something, the price goes down, not up. Of course this doesn’t apply to things that are limited, such as rare coins, but is does apply to everything that is unlimited. Today, we can produce virtually unlimited amounts of anything.

So, I propose an end to most taxes, except for where its purpose is to influence behavior. The money “received” from these taxes is just ignored. The federal government can issue money to local governments. Everyone is issued a food stamp card. It’s probably cheaper to give a food stamp card to everyone who wants one than it is to hire people to make sure the recipients are qualified to get free food. Make social security the same for everyone, even if they never worked for wages. Give everyone a mobile home. The reason housing is so expensive is because the government makes it that way. Homeowners want to protect their investment, so they make mobile homes and high rise apartments illegal. I claim that someone’s right to affordable housing trumps someone else’s right to make money on the housing shortage. So mobile homes should be allowed everywhere.

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits. Some people will get on it at 25 and stay on it all their lives, but so what? Do we want these types to be working, or looking for work, or doing something else to get money to live on? There are plenty of people who want to work to do all the work that needs to be done.

It would work. Unfortunately, it will never be implemented.

 

[MisterBeale]

What is a job? Most think a job is an arrangement between 2 people, whereby one of them works for the other and is paid wages. Another definition is that a job is a piece of work that needs to be done. Suppose you’re part of an Amish family. There are lots of jobs on the farm that need doing, and everyone does them. If the head of the family announces that today there are no jobs that need to be done, would that be a bad thing, or a good thing? If a job is work that needs doing, then high unemployment is a good thing, because it means it takes fewer of us to produce everything we need. People don’t want jobs, what they want are paychecks. If there’s nothing for them to do, that’s ok, just give them a paycheck.

You may will ask where the money will come from. To ask that question implies that money actually is something. Real money, such as gold and silver, actually exists. Fiat money, which is what we have, doesn’t really exist. Because we were so recently on the gold standard, and because we used real silver in coins until 1964, people are confused by fiat money.

We can pretend we have any amount of money we want. We can give everyone fiat money to buy food, and pay farmers fiat money to grow food. We don’t need taxes. We may want some taxes, such as cigarette taxes, to influence behavior, but we don’t need them to generate revenue for the government.

Suppose you, and the government, both want to buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle. The government taxes you so they can buy it, and since you now don’t have the money, you can’t buy it. With our technology today, Harley Davidson can make all the motorcycles they want. If they have to hire more people, that’s ok, there are plenty of people who want to work there.

The law of supply and demand no longer applies. If there’s a huge demand for something, the price goes down, not up. Of course this doesn’t apply to things that are limited, such as rare coins, but is does apply to everything that is unlimited. Today, we can produce virtually unlimited amounts of anything.

So, I propose an end to most taxes, except for where its purpose is to influence behavior. The money “received” from these taxes is just ignored. The federal government can issue money to local governments. Everyone is issued a food stamp card. It’s probably cheaper to give a food stamp card to everyone who wants one than it is to hire people to make sure the recipients are qualified to get free food. Make social security the same for everyone, even if they never worked for wages. Give everyone a mobile home. The reason housing is so expensive is because the government makes it that way. Homeowners want to protect their investment, so they make mobile homes and high rise apartments illegal. I claim that someone’s right to affordable housing trumps someone else’s right to make money on the housing shortage. So mobile homes should be allowed everywhere.

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits. Some people will get on it at 25 and stay on it all their lives, but so what? Do we want these types to be working, or looking for work, or doing something else to get money to live on? There are plenty of people who want to work to do all the work that needs to be done.

It would work. Unfortunately, it will never be implemented.

Take an economics class kid, you might enjoy it, and you might learn something.

The definition of economics, in a materialist society is; "Fulfilling unlimited wants with limited resources."

The earth only has so much arable farm land. As such choices must be made as to how that land will be used. Will it be used to grow wheat which will feed more, or will it be used to grow corn to feed livestock for meat, which makes more profit?

The earth has limited amount of all sorts of resources like timber, metal, and rare earths which make the products consumers demand. This limits the amount of "fiat" debt that can be created to accommodate the purchase and distribution of these resources.

You have SO MUCH to learn.

 

[Brucethethinker]

Take an economics class kid, you might enjoy it, and you might learn something.

I have.

The definition of economics, in a materialist society is; "Fulfilling unlimited wants with limited resources."

According to dictionary.com, its "The science that deals with the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services, or the material welfare of humankind."

The earth only has so much arable farm land. As such choices must be made as to how that land will be used. Will it be used to grow wheat which will feed more, or will it be used to grow corn to feed livestock for meat, which makes more profit?"

Have you ever been involved in farming? My parents bought their farm in 1969. The guy they bought it from had been there since the 1920's. He started farming with horses, and still owned some horse drawn farming implements. Yesterday I watched a guy harvest 60 acres of soybeans. I've known the guy since he was a kid, and he can farm 1000 acres by himself without working hard. We produce so much food, so easily, that farmers are looking for other uses for their crops, such as alcohol for fuel.

The earth has limited amount of all sorts of resources like timber, metal, and rare earths which make the products consumers demand.

It used to be said that our growth was limited by the amount of copper available. Since then we've learned to replace copper with glass. Lumber is now made from plastic. When the "rare earths" needed are not sufficient, other materials are adapted.

This limits the amount of "fiat" debt that can be created to accommodate the purchase and distribution of these resources.

You'll have to explain that one. What is stopping the government from sending every citizen a check for $1,000,000?

You have SO MUCH to learn.

Don't we all?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits.

perfectly idiotic and liberal. If you want to pay welfare to someone for not working you should be free too but you should not be able to obligate others to pay welfare too in a free country.

 

[Brucethethinker]

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits.

perfectly idiotic and liberal. If you want to pay welfare to someone for not working you should be free too but you should not be able to obligate others to pay welfare too in a free country.

What I'd REALLY like to do is make it illegal to pay someone not to work. But, that's not going to happen. There is no job we need that guy to do, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits? It's not too hard to live pretty decent on unemployment benefits. All he'll do with those fiat dollars is buy stuff, so his fiat dollars will wind up in the hands of the producers in the country.

It used to take a fairly large part of the population to produce enough food for us all. Now it takes very few. It used to take an army of workers to keep the model A assembly line going. Now robots do most of the work. Why is that a bad thing? We no longer have anything we need these people to do, but they still need to live.

 

[Judicial review]

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits.

perfectly idiotic and liberal. If you want to pay welfare to someone for not working you should be free too but you should not be able to obligate others to pay welfare too in a free country.

What I'd REALLY like to do is make it illegal to pay someone not to work. But, that's not going to happen. There is no job we need that guy to do, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits? It's not too hard to live pretty decent on unemployment benefits. All he'll do with those fiat dollars is buy stuff, so his fiat dollars will wind up in the hands of the producers in the country.

It used to take a fairly large part of the population to produce enough food for us all. Now it takes very few. It used to take an army of workers to keep the model A assembly line going. Now robots do most of the work. Why is that a bad thing? We no longer have anything we need these people to do, but they still need to live.

Take all the people on welfare and stick them on a farm at min wage. They will learn that there are other jobs that they can work at and not be lazy.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits.

perfectly idiotic and liberal. If you want to pay welfare to someone for not working you should be free too but you should not be able to obligate others to pay welfare too in a free country.

What I'd REALLY like to do is make it illegal to pay someone not to work. But, that's not going to happen. There is no job we need that guy to do, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits? It's not too hard to live pretty decent on unemployment benefits. All he'll do with those fiat dollars is buy stuff, so his fiat dollars will wind up in the hands of the producers in the country.

It used to take a fairly large part of the population to produce enough food for us all. Now it takes very few. It used to take an army of workers to keep the model A assembly line going. Now robots do most of the work. Why is that a bad thing? We no longer have anything we need these people to do, but they still need to live.

Take all the people on welfare and stick them on a farm at min wage. They will learn that there are other jobs that they can work at and not be lazy.

good idea! When Newt forced Clinton to end welfare as we know it by making it workfare fully half decided they no longer needed welfare! Did that make liberals feel stupid? NO!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits?

dear, as long as you pay for the guys benefits it does not hurt me at all. Do you understand?

 

[Judicial review]

Last, I propose unlimited unemployment benefits.

perfectly idiotic and liberal. If you want to pay welfare to someone for not working you should be free too but you should not be able to obligate others to pay welfare too in a free country.

What I'd REALLY like to do is make it illegal to pay someone not to work. But, that's not going to happen. There is no job we need that guy to do, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits? It's not too hard to live pretty decent on unemployment benefits. All he'll do with those fiat dollars is buy stuff, so his fiat dollars will wind up in the hands of the producers in the country.

It used to take a fairly large part of the population to produce enough food for us all. Now it takes very few. It used to take an army of workers to keep the model A assembly line going. Now robots do most of the work. Why is that a bad thing? We no longer have anything we need these people to do, but they still need to live.

Take all the people on welfare and stick them on a farm at min wage. They will learn that there are other jobs that they can work at and not be lazy.

good idea! When Newt forced Clinton to end welfare as we know it by making it workfare fully half decided they no longer needed welfare! Did that make liberals feel stupid? NO!

They will also learn a good sleep schedule that is a required skill for work and learn that a bath is needed.

 

[Brucethethinker]

Take all the people on welfare and stick them on a farm at min wage. They will learn that there are other jobs that they can work at and not be lazy.

I arrived at a lot of my conclusions watching my parents farm being worked. They spend 2 days planting, 1 day spraying, 2 days harvesting, 60 acres. That's 12 acres per day. We can make all the food we need with very little effort. Modern farming is really amazing. Why do you want to teach them anything? They know what they want. They're not doing anyone any good, but if they have enough money to get by they'll be less likely to be doing harm.

 

[Judicial review]

Take all the people on welfare and stick them on a farm at min wage. They will learn that there are other jobs that they can work at and not be lazy.

I arrived at a lot of my conclusions watching my parents farm being worked. They spend 2 days planting, 1 day spraying, 2 days harvesting, 60 acres. That's 12 acres per day. We can make all the food we need with very little effort. Modern farming is really amazing. Why do you want to teach them anything? They know what they want. They're not doing anyone any good, but if they have enough money to get by they'll be less likely to be doing harm.

So... You are in favor?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

They're not doing anyone any good, but if they have enough money to get by they'll be less likely to be doing harm.

dear, creating an ever growing population of crippled welfare recipients is obscene and liberal and twisted.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why do you want to teach them anything?

perhaps so they will be more than zoo animals?

 

[Brucethethinker]

, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits?

dear, as long as you pay for the guys benefits it does not hurt me at all. Do you understand?

By me paying for it, I believe you mean that however much his bank account increases because he received unemployment benefits, you want mine to decrease by the same amount. Why do you want that? You're confusing money with something that really exists. If money was real, like it was 100 years ago, the only way government could get money was to take it from the citizens. Your concern would make sense in that context, because in order to give someone unemployment, the government would have to take if from the citizens, and part would come from you. The boom years for America was when gold being mined. More gold, more wealth, everyone was happy. But, we don't use real money anymore. We can have boom years all the time, as Bernanke proved.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I arrived at a lot of my conclusions watching my parents farm being worked.

dear, nobody needs you to reinvent the wheel. It is painfully obviously that you got none of your conclusions in an Econ 101 classroom. Do you want a reading list?

 

[Judicial review]

Why do you want to teach them anything?

perhaps so they will be more than zoo animals?

I assume a cotton farm would be the wrong one. Keep walking....

 

[Judicial review]

, so what does it hurt to give him his unemployment benefits?

dear, as long as you pay for the guys benefits it does not hurt me at all. Do you understand?

By me paying for it, I believe you mean that however much his bank account increases because he received unemployment benefits, you want mine to decrease by the same amount. Why do you want that? You're confusing money with something that really exists. If money was real, like it was 100 years ago, the only way government could get money was to take it from the citizens. Your concern would make sense in that context, because in order to give someone unemployment, the government would have to take if from the citizens, and part would come from you. The boom years for America was when gold being mined. More gold, more wealth, everyone was happy. But, we don't use real money anymore. We can have boom years all the time, as Bernanke proved.

He's saying that he doesn't want to fund it even a fraction of a fraction of it, which is another reason why we have the right to vote. I assume his vote is so he doesn't have to pay for that.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

By me paying for it, I believe you mean that however much his bank account increases because he received unemployment benefits, you want mine to decrease by the same amount. Why do you want that?

so my standard of living is not reduced in suppport of an idiotic idea you have!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. But, we don't use real money anymore.

what on earth??if its not real can I have all of yours??

 

[Brucethethinker]

Why do you want to teach them anything?

perhaps so they will be more than zoo animals?

It's not our job to tell other people how they should live. I'm just saying it would be easier and cheaper to just give them enough so they can live decently and we won't have to deal with their whining. We enough people who are willing to work, and enough technology, that we can produce enough for everyone without a whole lot of effort. I'd like to give a trailer to everyone who wants one. Then we wouldn't have homeless people all over washington dc. In defense to the underclass, I can remember in 1965 anyone who walked in the door at Ford Motor Company got hired. It really is tougher to get good jobs now. It takes fewer people to do the same work it used to, and the competition for the good jobs leaves more and more behind. I'd rather they were just hanging out having a good time than be marching demanding "welfare rights".