Every Jew has secret knowledge of a Zionist world conspiracy? Not true.

[Street Juice]

And let the reader mark this: it will be found that this present immigration move is as much a part of the Jewish World Program as was the breaking of the treaty with Russia. Readers of the article of January 15 will recall how at the behest of the Jews, the United States’ trade with Russia was thrown into the hands of German Jews who were using it to further their plans for the destruction of the Russian Empire, which later came to pass. The Jews “used” the United States to put across an essential part of that plan.

Well, what are they using the United States for now? We may well believe that the Jews are not without several reasons for what they are doing. The Jew excels as a chess player because he plays a game wherever he may be. The immigration matter amounts to this: Jews are streaming out of Poland as speedily as they can. It is not “pogroms” that are driving them out. “Pogroms” have been proved to be immigration propaganda for consumption outside Poland.

The Jews are leaving Poland because they know something is going to happen.

And if they are leaving Poland it is a sign it is going to happen to Poland.

And if the Jews have advance news of it, it is a sign that what will occur will be inflicted by Jews.

Plainly it is this: Jewish Bolshevism in Russia has made a secret decree against Poland. The Jews are getting out of the way. American Jewish agents are constantly passing into Poland. Rich American Jews are sending agents to bring back groups of “relatives.” There is an exodus from Poland and there is a reason for it which spells trouble for Poland. The United States is being used as the chief means by which the Jews are to clear out. France protests against them and will not have them. England most decidedly refuses to have them. The Jews of the United States are powerful enough to compel this country to take them. We are utilized to effect the entrance of Bolshevism into Russia; it went from our East Side thither. We are now being utilized to assist at the destruction of Poland. It is possible, however, that by the time the Jewish program reaches that point, something may have intervened.

The Jews of the United States have also given a splendid illustration of what THE

 

[Street Juice]

From the "who knew?" file

Chapter 62 How Jews Gained American Liquor Control • 4,000 Words
THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT, issue of 17 December 1921

To those who have been surprised and confounded by the widespread evidence, which even the newspapers have been unable to suppress, that the bulk of the organized bootlegging which is being carried on in this country is in the hands of Jews, it would have been less of a surprise had they known the liquor history of this country.

The claim made for the Jews, that they are a sober people, is undoubtedly true, but that has not prevented two facts concerning them, namely, that they usually constitute the liquor dealers of the countries where they live in numbers, and that in the United States they are the only people exempted from the operations of the Prohibition law.

Here as elsewhere the principle holds true that “the Jew is the key.” The demoralization which struck the liquor business, causing its downfall, and the demoralization which has struck Prohibition enforcement for a time, cannot be understood without a study of the racial elements which contributed to both phenomena. If in what follows the Jews find objectionable elements, they should remember that their own people put them there. It is impossible to doubt that if the organized Jews of the United States were to make one-thousandth of the protest against the illegal liquor activities of their own people that they make against the perfectly legal and morally justifiable exposures being made in THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT, the result would be not only favorable but immediate.

There was a time when the term “whisky” had a much more respectable connotation than it has today. There was a time when to use whisky and even to make it, were customs sanctioned by the better class of public opinion.

It is a common explanation of the difference between then and now, that people of the latter period became more sensitive morally than their forbears, that whereas the previous generation guzzled its whisky, innocently oblivious of the evil in it, the latter generation developed a stronger discrimination and banned the custom.

The truth is this: the people did not become better; the whisky became worse. When the entire story of the people’s justifiable indignation is written, the competent historian will trace along with the people’s rising disgust, the whisky’s decreasing quality.

Attention to this matter will materially assist an understanding of the fact that Jews and bootlegging are so continuously and prominently connected in the public prints these days.

Readers of the old romances know how proud the master was of his wines. Vintages ripened under certain skies, on certain hills, where certain waters flowed, with cellarage in certain soils, had a faculty of aging gracefully, mellowing to a smoothness and purity and desirableness that made for cheer and health without the alloy of sordid inebriety. The bouquet of wine, the perfected essence of the grape subjected to the further courses of nature, has been a theme of praise for centuries. If it were uttered today the source of the utterance would be suspected, and very probably with good reason, of being in pay of the “wets.” For the vile stuff which civilization threw out is not at all the wine of popular custom and century-long esteem.

Nevertheless, it is not difficult for even a modern to grasp the fact that there was an art in making wine and strong drink, in which art men took pride. That art required time, experience, a love of good quality.

It is a little difficult to speak of this art in connection with whisky—wine being a more poetic word—yet it is a matter of knowledge that three places in the world have devoted to the production of whisky the same spirit which France and Portugal devoted to their wines. These three districts are Glenlivet in Scotland, the region of Dublin in Ireland, and the Blue-Grass region of Kentucky. Why in these three regions? First, because there were men—non-Jews, of course—who were willing to wait ten years to produce a good article. Second, the waters of these regions are of a quality which is beautifully adapted to the making of pure goods. Pure whisky, it should be remembered, is a vegetable product matured by natural forces and no other. Grain, water, and time—not even artificial heat added, nor any other thing—completes the best whisky product.

In older times in America there were men who were as choice of their whiskies as of their horses or books. There was then such a thing as quality. But there was no such thing as delirium tremens. That came later, with the disappearance of pure whisky. A distiller seldom grew rich—he was too engrossed in maintaining the quality of his product; and it consumed much time.

There were certain brands known nationally because of their mildness and purity—purest wine of the choicest grapes, aged in the best adapted cellars, was not more mild or pure. There are names that remain until this day—Pepper, Crow, Taylor, and others—the names of men who took time and pains, whose names became “brands” which guaranteed quality and purity. These men were distillers in the true sense, not manufacturers nor compounders, but distillers in a time when distilling was both a science and an art, and not a mere name to conceal a gigantic fraud on the public.

In time to come, when the people’s justifiable moral indignation will permit a study of the steps by which the reputation of whisky came to its present low degree, they will see how much better it would have been, how much more efficacious and clarifying, if the attack on whisky had included an exposure of the men who had driven whisky out of the country and were selling rank poison as a substitute. The saloon, the brewer, the man who used strong drink were all of them made the target for attack; the Jews who demoralized the whole business went on collecting their enormous and illegitimate profits without so much as their identity being revealed.

Whisky ceased to be whisky and beer grew less like beer; the results upon humanity became apparent and deplorable. So society raised the license fee and increased the restrictions. To meet this, the Jewish compounders turned out still cheaper stuff, and still more vicious mixtures. Licenses went up, and quality went down; the Jewish compounders always getting a larger margin of profit. And through the long, long fight, no one, with one or two notable exceptions, had the sense and the courage to point a finger at the solid racial phalanx lined up behind the whole rotten combination.

Distilling is one of the long list of businesses which has been ruined by Jewish monopoly. Those who favor Prohibition will probably thank the Jew for his work in that direction. It may be that the Jew is destiny’s agent to demoralize the business that must pass away. But set against that the fact that it is Jewish influence that demoralizes Prohibition, too, and both “wets” and “drys” have an interesting situation to consider.

In general, the Jews are on the side of liquor and always have been. They are the steadiest drinkers of all. That is why they were able to secure exemption from the Prohibition laws; their religious ceremonies require them to drink an amount which the law has considered to equal ten gallons a year. And so the Prohibition law of the United States—a part of the Constitution of the United States—is made legally ineffective to the extent of ten gallons of year a Jew. The amount, of course, is very much more; it is always easy to get 100 gallons through a 10-gallon loophole. In fact, thousands of gallons have come through that 10-gallon loophole.

It will come to many people as new knowledge that the liquor business of the world has been in the hands of Jews. In the United States the liquor business was almost exclusively in the hands of Jews for 25 years previous to Prohibition, during the period, in fact, when the liquor trade was giving point and confirmation to Prohibition arguments. This knowledge has an important bearing on the interpretation of our times.

In the volume, “The Conquering Jew,” published by Funk & Wagnalls Company in 1916, John Foster Fraser writes:

“The Jews are masters of the whisky trade in the United States. Eighty per cent of the members of the National Liquor Dealers’ Association are Jews. It has been shown that 60 per cent of the business of distilling and wholesale trade in whisky is in the hands of the Jews. As middlemen they control the wine product of California. Jews visit the tobacco-growing States and buy up nearly all the leaf tobacco, so that the great tobacco companies have to buy the raw product from them. The Jews have a grip on the cigar trade. The American Tobacco Company manufactures about 15 per cent of the cigars smoked in the United States. The Jews provide the rest.”

It was also true in Russia, Poland, Rumania. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that “The Establishment of the government liquor monopoly (in Russia in 1896) deprived thousands of Jewish families of a livelihood.” They controlled the liquor traffic, the vodka business which undermined Russia. The government made the liquor business a national monopoly in order to abolish it, which was done. Liquor in Russia was Jewish, as the Encyclopedia testifies. Anyone reading carefully the article on Russia, especially pages 527 and 559 in the Jewish Encyclopedia, will be in no doubt as to the fact. In Rumania the whole “Jewish Question” was the liquor question. The land of the peasants came into control of the liquor sellers, and the business of handling liquors was a strict Jewish monopoly for years. In Poland the same was true. It is not surprising, therefore, that in the United States whisky also became Jewish.

For convenience in detailing this story, most of the observations made will center in the state of Kentucky. Almost every one of age knows the phrase “fine old Kentucky whiskies.” It was once a phrase that meant something. Kentucky produced, in her limestone regions, the kind of water that served best with the grain ingredients of whisky. The word “Bourbon,” known mostly as a kind of whisky, is really the name of a county in Kentucky where “Bourbon whisky” was first made. How profoundly the region in which whisky is manufactured affects the product may be gathered from the fact that a primitive Kentucky distiller named Shields, who became famous for a brand of Bourbon made from the waters of Glen’s Creek, conceived of the idea of lowering his costs by transferring his distillery to Illinois, where he would be nearer the rich cornfields. He was disappointed. Illinois water would not make Bourbon. “The rule of the region” is supreme. Jamaica rum owes its characteristic to the waters of Jamaica. Port wine is best produced in the region of Duro in Portugal, champagne in the region of Rheims in France, and beer in Bavaria. And so, in Kentucky there was the right combination of elements which made the whisky product of that state world famous.

An alcoholic spirit from grain may be made in any climate and by many methods. Neutral spirits, high wines and alcohol, are not indigenous anywhere. They can be made in any back room or cellar, in very little time. Little care is required. A concoction of drugs and spirits, properly colored and flavored, fraudulently labeled “whisky” and passed out over the bar, is a crime against the art of distilling, against the human nervous system, and against society.

Readers may recall that in 1904, Dr. Wiley, then chief of the United States Bureau of Chemistry, had a great deal to say about this. But because he did not point out that the evil he was attacking was fostered by a single class of men bent on gain at the cost of ruin to an American industry and to countless thousands of American citizens, few paid any attention to him. The public supposed that Dr. Wiley was discussing a technical question which interested American distillers only. It vastly more interested the American citizen, if he had but known it, if anyone had but had the clear vision and the courage to expose the great Jewish whisky conspiracy.

The difference between the non-Jewish and the Jewish method, as illustrated in the history of American whisky, is thus described by Dr. Wiley:

“The aging of whisky takes years of time. It is expensive. The whisky leaks out. It is allowed to stand for four years at least. The object of this is to permit the oxidation of the alcohols. . . . There is a loss of interest on the value of the whisky while it is aging; hence it is an expensive process.

“But the manufacture of compounded, or artificial whisky has for its purpose the avoiding of this long and expensive process. The makers begin with the pure article of spirits which can be made in a few hours. . . . To this is added enough water to dilute it to the strength of whisky. The next step is to color it. . . . this is done by adding burnt sugar and caramel. The next thing is to supply the flavors. . . . By the way I have described, in two or three hours the compounder can make a material which looks like, smells like, tastes like, and analyzes like genuine whisky, but it has a different effect on the system. The people who drink this whisky are much more liable to receive injury from it than those who drink the genuine article.”

All sorts of practices were resorted to. Drugs and raw “crops” of whisky were bought up and the business of “rectifying,” as it was called, began the ruin of the natural and wholesome process of distilling. Quick money, regardless of what happened to the customer: that was the motive of the rectifying business.

This rectifying business was mostly Jewish. Here and there a non-Jew was associated with Jewish partners, but rarely. The way had been found to trade on the reputation of the term “whisky” by compounding a liquid which looked and tasted like whisky but the effect of which was harmful. That was the capital fraud—the capture of the name “whisky” for a synthetic poison. There was a concealment of the meaning of “rectified spirits,” a deceptive use of the word “blend,” and even a most fraudulent misrepresentation concerning aging. If chemical deception could be used to make a whisky taste as if it were nine years old, then it was advertised as “Nine Years in the Wood.” Here is a bit of Jewish court testimony:

Q. Is your make of whisky nine years old?

A. Nine years old, but I want to explain in that respect that the whisky may not have existed nine years before it was put into that bottle. . . . That brand of whisky which we brand as nine years old blended, means that it is equal to a nine-year-old whisky in smoothness and quality.

Q. How did you arrive at the fact which you put upon this bottle that the whisky was nine years old?

A. Because it is comparatively nine years old.

Q. How do you arrive at that result?

A. By sampling. You take the whisky that is allowed to remain in the original package for nine years and compare it with our nine-year-old blend and you will find them in smoothness the same. Therefore, we class it as nine-year-old whisky.

Let the reader form his own judgement on that type of mind. The whisky bore a name resembling a time-honored brand of pure goods, and it flaunted the name Kentucky, when it was not whisky at all, was not a Kentucky product, but was compounded of neutral spirits from Indiana, prune juice from California, rock candy from anywhere, and raw Illinois whisky from Peoria to give it flavor.

Although Louisville, Kentucky, became headquarters of whisky men, it was Cincinnati, Ohio, a thoroughly Judaized city, which became a greater headquarters for the pseudo-whisky men, the compounders, mixers and rectifiers. The list of Cincinnati liquor dealers reads like a directory of the Warsaw ghetto. In Louisville the Judaic complexion of the city, as well as society, is very noticeable; indeed, most of the leading Jews in the whisky business are now Kentucky “Colonels.”

The Jewish character of the whisky business since the Civil War may be visualized, by the simple expedient of noting how many of the better known brands have been at various dates under Jewish control:

There is “Old 66,” owned by Straus, Pritz & Co.

“Highland Rye,” owned by Freiberg & Workum.

“T. W. Samuel Old Style Sour Mash,” owned by Max Hirsch, the Star Distilling Company.

“Bridgewater Sour Mash and Rye Whiskies,” “Rosewood and Westbrook Bourbon Whiskies,” distilled by J. & A. Freiberg.

“T. J. Monarch” and “Davies County Sour Mash Whiskies,” controlled by J. & A. Freiberg.

“Louis Hunter 1870,” “Crystal Wedding,” and “Old Jug,” blended by J. & A. Freiberg.

“Gannymede ’76,” put out by Sigmund and Sol H. Freiberg.

“Jig-Saw Kentucky Corn Whisky,” “Lynndale Whisky,” “Brunswick Rye and Bourbon,” by Hoffheimer Brothers Company.

“Red Top Rye” and “White House Club,” by Ferdinand Westheimer & Sons.

“Green River” came into the control of E. La Montague.

“Sunnybrook,” a widely advertised brand, on whose advertising matter a man in a United States inspector’s uniform stood behind as if endorsing it, was at the time owned by Rosenfield Brothers & Co.

“Mount Vernon,” as from the Hannis Distilling Company, was at the time owned by Angelo Meyer.

“Belle of Nelson” came into control of the Jewish trust, which was brought to legal birth by Levy Mayer and Alfred Austrian, the latter being the Chicago attorney whose name will be recalled in connection with the baseball articles in this series.

“James E. Pepper” was owned by James Wolf.

“Cedar Brook” was owned by Julius Kessler & Co. It was formerly the old “W. H. McBrayer” brand, but the real W. H. McBrayer, knowing the new methods that were arising in liquor-making, requested in his will that his name should not be used as a brand after he had ceased to see that the product was worthy of his name.

In the Pittsburgh and Peoria districts, the same story held true; the alleged whisky made in those districts was controlled, with one exception, by Jews.

The Great Western Distillery, in Peoria, is owned by a corporation of Jews. Two of its brands were “Ravenswood Rye” and “Ravenswood Bourbon.”

The Woolner Distillery made “Old Grove Whisky” and “Old Ryan Whisky,” and “Bucha Gin.”

In the city of Peoria alone there are fifteen great fortunes, all held by Jews, and for the most part made in what passed in Peoria for Whisky.

Take the city of Cincinnati alone and note what even an incomplete list reveals as to the names of the men classified as “distillers”:

Bernheim, Rexinger & Company; Elias Bloch & Sons; J. & A. Freiberg; Freiberg & Workum; Helfferich & Sons; Hoffheimer Brothers Company; Elias Hyman & Sons; Kaufman, Bare & Company; Klein Brothers; A. Loeb & Co.; H. Rosenthal & Sons; Seligman Distilling Company; Straus, Pritz & Company; S. N. Weil & Company, and F. Westheimer & Sons; with many other Jews concealed under fancy trade names and corporation designations. It is the same throughout Ohio, which state, incidentally, is one of the most Jew-ridden states in the Union.

The lists here given do not by any means begin to indicate the numbers of the Jews who were engaged in the liquor business, they only indicate the complexion which the business takes on when a search is made behind the “brands” and the trade names. Any citizen in any city of size will have no trouble in confirming the statement that most of the rectifiers and wholesalers and brokers in the whisky trade of his city also were Jews.

But it is not only the fact that the liquor business was controlled by Jews that assumes importance. That is a fact which no one will deny—not even the Jewish defenders. But it is the additional fact that there was spread over this country the machinery of a vicious system which while it was destined to ruin the liquor business—as perhaps it deserved to be ruined—also ruined hundreds of thousands of citizens who trusted that “pure and unadulterated” meant what the words were intended to convey. It would be a separate story to tell of all the manipulation of labels, the piracy of brand names, the conscienceless play upon words “pure and unadulterated” of which the un-American “compounded liquor” combine was guilty. Of course, the stuff was “pure and unadulterated”—so is carbolic acid—but it was not whisky! There were law violations galore, and it was well enough recognized in the rectifying business as a regular practice to appropriate annually a certain sum to pay the fines that were bound to be assessed against it. A riot of adulteration and chicanery ensued, with whisky being made in many saloon cellars and the dangerous secrets of synthetic booze-making being peddled abroad among the customers of the trust.

Presently the saloon men became aware of the fact that they were the goats of the game. Seldom was the Jew engaged in dishing out five-cent beers or ten-cent whiskies; it remained for the “boob Gentile” to do that; the Jew was at the wholesale end where the real profits were made. But it was the saloon man who took the brunt of the blame. The Jewish “distillers,” as the compounders and blenders of the Louisville and Peoria districts were called, wore silk hats and their respectability was unquestioned. The saloon men made an eleventh hour effort to save their business, but the stuff they were pouring out had not improved, and Prohibition came, sweeping the saloon away, but, as the sequel will show, not depriving the Jewish compounder of his profits.

How much of the liquor business of the United States was in whisky and how much in rectified spirits?

The Twelfth Census of the United States, 1900, said: “Most of the distilled liquors consumed as a beverage by the American people pass through rectifying houses. The different classes of rectified spirits range from the cheapest concoctions of neutral spirits and drugs to the simple blending of young and old whisky.”

Twenty years ago statistics showed that 80 per cent of the so-called whisky put up in the United States was imitation whisky. Chief Chemist Wiley, whose concern was not with the quantity but with the quality, gave it as his information “that over half the whisky in this country was compounded whisky. Less than half was genuine; and while they usually mix a little old whisky with it, they often sell it purely and simply as it is, whisky which has no claim to be called whisky under the real meaning of that term.”

But all that was only a beginning. The time came when the vision of a great liquor combination rose in certain minds in this country. It was planned to sweep the good brands and the bad brands alike into one common management—whose control the reader will by this time suspect—and thus not only capitalize the reputation which the old-time American distillers had made through years of honest distilling, but use the trade names of pure goods as a mask for a deluge of the dishonest kind of liquor which left a trail of suicide, insanity, crime and social wreckage in its path.

This, with independent testimony as to the Jewish direction of it all, will form the subject matter of a separate story.

The International Jew

 

[ESay]

There were no missing Jews. Don't buy the lies. Capri has posted the population figures from before, during, and after the war (from a Jewish source). No missing Jews.

No, why lies. It is a good question. Poland had nearly 3 million of Jews before WWII. How many are there now? Thousands? Where is the rest? Moved to Israel under Communism rule?

I have never heard about this Jewish Almanac? Who issues it? And are there any sources of demographic data which confirm that?

Many Polish Jews emigrated to the United States

That is your assumption or you have official data?

I tried to recall where I had read about the massive mid-century influx of Polish Jews to the United States and I thought it might be The International Jew, by Henry Ford (1920). So, I queried through the text for "Poland". I thought the "hits" themselves might be interesting. Here is the first:

Another cause of the Question appearing here will be the great influx of Jews which is planned for America. There will probably be a million Jews enter the country this year, increasing our Jewish population to nearly 4,500,000. This does not mean merely an immigration of persons, but an immigration of ideas. No Jewish writer has ever told us, in systematic fashion, just what is the Jews’ idea of non-Jews, how they regard the Gentiles in their private minds. But there are indications of it, although one would not attempt to reconstruct the Jewish attitude toward Gentiles. A Jew ought to do this for us, but he would probably be cast out by his own people if he discharged his task with rigorous jealousy for the exact fact.

These people are coming here regarding the Gentile as an hereditary enemy, as perhaps they have good ground for doing, and so believing they are going to model their behavior in a manner that will show it. Nor will these Jews be so helpless as they appear. In stricken Poland, where the Jews are represented as having been stripped of everything during the war, there are hundreds daily appearing before the consulate to arrange their passage here. The fact is significant. In spite of their reputed suffering and poverty, they are able to travel a great distance and to insist on coming. No other people are financially able to travel in such numbers. But the Jews are. It will readily be seen that they are not objects of charity. They have been able to keep afloat in a storm that has wrecked the other people. They know it and they joy in it, as is natural. And they will bring here the same thoughts toward the majority which they have harbored in their present lands of domicile. They may hail America; they will have their own thoughts about the majority of the American people. They may be in the lists as Russians or Poles or what not, but they will be Jews with the full Jewish consciousness, and they will make themselves felt.

All this is bound to have its effect. And it is not race prejudice to prepare for it, and to invite American Jews themselves to consider the fact and contribute to the solution of the problem which it presents.​

Well, it may well be interesting, but it doesn't have relevance to what we are discussing here whatsoever. The International Jew was written in 20s and doesn't shed light on what happened with the Jews after WWII.
So, if there wasn't Holocaust, then where almost 3 million of Polish Jews disappeared?

 

[ESay]

Indeependent
What is your opinion about the time frame of Hebrew calendar? It begins with the year of our world's creation. Do you really think that our world was created 6000 or so years ago?

There was no sun until the 4th day so we have no idea how old existence or the earth is.
On the other hand, Adam was not created as a newborn.
The age of our planet is inconsequential; our behavior is consequential.

But in this case we have to assume that the Genesis gives incorrect information in its beginning. And it is possible to assume that there can be incorrect information in other parts of Tora.

You’re not reading it correctly.
How can we measure time without our sun?
I suggest using a flowchart to record the sequence of events.
Perhaps God is telling us that the age of our planet is of no consequence.

Maybe the age is of no consequence, but the manner it was created is of great importance. And if Genesis implies that the Earth was created before the Sun, though in reality the Sun is older than Earth, it casts doudts about its accuracy. Doesn't it?

Btw, you said that Adam wasn't a newborn. So? What exactly did you want to say?

 

[fncceo]

Normally, I'd be very interested in any article about Jews and whiskey.

But, you've even managed to make that boring.

 

[Street Juice]

There were no missing Jews. Don't buy the lies. Capri has posted the population figures from before, during, and after the war (from a Jewish source). No missing Jews.

No, why lies. It is a good question. Poland had nearly 3 million of Jews before WWII. How many are there now? Thousands? Where is the rest? Moved to Israel under Communism rule?

I have never heard about this Jewish Almanac? Who issues it? And are there any sources of demographic data which confirm that?

Many Polish Jews emigrated to the United States

That is your assumption or you have official data?

I tried to recall where I had read about the massive mid-century influx of Polish Jews to the United States and I thought it might be The International Jew, by Henry Ford (1920). So, I queried through the text for "Poland". I thought the "hits" themselves might be interesting. Here is the first:

Another cause of the Question appearing here will be the great influx of Jews which is planned for America. There will probably be a million Jews enter the country this year, increasing our Jewish population to nearly 4,500,000. This does not mean merely an immigration of persons, but an immigration of ideas. No Jewish writer has ever told us, in systematic fashion, just what is the Jews’ idea of non-Jews, how they regard the Gentiles in their private minds. But there are indications of it, although one would not attempt to reconstruct the Jewish attitude toward Gentiles. A Jew ought to do this for us, but he would probably be cast out by his own people if he discharged his task with rigorous jealousy for the exact fact.

These people are coming here regarding the Gentile as an hereditary enemy, as perhaps they have good ground for doing, and so believing they are going to model their behavior in a manner that will show it. Nor will these Jews be so helpless as they appear. In stricken Poland, where the Jews are represented as having been stripped of everything during the war, there are hundreds daily appearing before the consulate to arrange their passage here. The fact is significant. In spite of their reputed suffering and poverty, they are able to travel a great distance and to insist on coming. No other people are financially able to travel in such numbers. But the Jews are. It will readily be seen that they are not objects of charity. They have been able to keep afloat in a storm that has wrecked the other people. They know it and they joy in it, as is natural. And they will bring here the same thoughts toward the majority which they have harbored in their present lands of domicile. They may hail America; they will have their own thoughts about the majority of the American people. They may be in the lists as Russians or Poles or what not, but they will be Jews with the full Jewish consciousness, and they will make themselves felt.

All this is bound to have its effect. And it is not race prejudice to prepare for it, and to invite American Jews themselves to consider the fact and contribute to the solution of the problem which it presents.​

Well, it may well be interesting, but it doesn't have relevance to what we are discussing here whatsoever. The International Jew was written in 20s and doesn't shed light on what happened with the Jews after WWII.
So, if there wasn't Holocaust, then where almost 3 million of Polish Jews disappeared?

Ford tells you: the great stream of Polish Jews to the United States was already underway by 1920, outside our immigration system, and unenumerated by our census. He mentions the figure of 250,000 per year. By 1932, all three million would already be here.

 

[ESay]

No, why lies. It is a good question. Poland had nearly 3 million of Jews before WWII. How many are there now? Thousands? Where is the rest? Moved to Israel under Communism rule?

I have never heard about this Jewish Almanac? Who issues it? And are there any sources of demographic data which confirm that?

Many Polish Jews emigrated to the United States

That is your assumption or you have official data?

I tried to recall where I had read about the massive mid-century influx of Polish Jews to the United States and I thought it might be The International Jew, by Henry Ford (1920). So, I queried through the text for "Poland". I thought the "hits" themselves might be interesting. Here is the first:

Another cause of the Question appearing here will be the great influx of Jews which is planned for America. There will probably be a million Jews enter the country this year, increasing our Jewish population to nearly 4,500,000. This does not mean merely an immigration of persons, but an immigration of ideas. No Jewish writer has ever told us, in systematic fashion, just what is the Jews’ idea of non-Jews, how they regard the Gentiles in their private minds. But there are indications of it, although one would not attempt to reconstruct the Jewish attitude toward Gentiles. A Jew ought to do this for us, but he would probably be cast out by his own people if he discharged his task with rigorous jealousy for the exact fact.

These people are coming here regarding the Gentile as an hereditary enemy, as perhaps they have good ground for doing, and so believing they are going to model their behavior in a manner that will show it. Nor will these Jews be so helpless as they appear. In stricken Poland, where the Jews are represented as having been stripped of everything during the war, there are hundreds daily appearing before the consulate to arrange their passage here. The fact is significant. In spite of their reputed suffering and poverty, they are able to travel a great distance and to insist on coming. No other people are financially able to travel in such numbers. But the Jews are. It will readily be seen that they are not objects of charity. They have been able to keep afloat in a storm that has wrecked the other people. They know it and they joy in it, as is natural. And they will bring here the same thoughts toward the majority which they have harbored in their present lands of domicile. They may hail America; they will have their own thoughts about the majority of the American people. They may be in the lists as Russians or Poles or what not, but they will be Jews with the full Jewish consciousness, and they will make themselves felt.

All this is bound to have its effect. And it is not race prejudice to prepare for it, and to invite American Jews themselves to consider the fact and contribute to the solution of the problem which it presents.​

Well, it may well be interesting, but it doesn't have relevance to what we are discussing here whatsoever. The International Jew was written in 20s and doesn't shed light on what happened with the Jews after WWII.
So, if there wasn't Holocaust, then where almost 3 million of Polish Jews disappeared?

Ford tells you: the great stream of Polish Jews to the United States was already underway by 1920, outside our immigration system, and unenumerated by our census. He mentions the figure of 250,000 per year. By 1932, all three million would already be here.

It is hardly possible. Because these numbers were in Poland as of 1939.

 

[Indeependent]

Indeependent
What is your opinion about the time frame of Hebrew calendar? It begins with the year of our world's creation. Do you really think that our world was created 6000 or so years ago?

There was no sun until the 4th day so we have no idea how old existence or the earth is.
On the other hand, Adam was not created as a newborn.
The age of our planet is inconsequential; our behavior is consequential.

But in this case we have to assume that the Genesis gives incorrect information in its beginning. And it is possible to assume that there can be incorrect information in other parts of Tora.

You’re not reading it correctly.
How can we measure time without our sun?
I suggest using a flowchart to record the sequence of events.
Perhaps God is telling us that the age of our planet is of no consequence.

Maybe the age is of no consequence, but the manner it was created is of great importance. And if Genesis implies that the Earth was created before the Sun, though in reality the Sun is older than Earth, it casts doudts about its accuracy. Doesn't it?

Btw, you said that Adam wasn't a newborn. So? What exactly did you want to say?

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

 

[ESay]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

 

[Indeependent]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

The first named human is Adam.
There are 2 human creations prior to Adam.
Read the verses very carefully...
There was a human and then there was a human comprised of Male/Female.

You will notice that the planet earth and plant life is created prior to the primordial light being downgraded to a concentrated star.
Inert and plant life do not have any level a higher soul and never actively violate God’s plan and thus their creation was allowed under the influence of pure, untainted energy.”

 

[Indeependent]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

Keep in mind...
The Torah mentions people and events that affect humanity.
Adam has more children than just Kayin and Hevel, but you have to be able to read Hebrew in order to know that.
It is no surprise that civilizations existed 6,000 years ago.
It’s not like God commanded Adam to live in huts and swing in the trees.

 

[ESay]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

The first named human is Adam.
There are 2 human creations prior to Adam.
Read the verses very carefully...
There was a human and then there was a human comprised of Male/Female.

You will notice that the planet earth and plant life is created prior to the primordial light being downgraded to a concentrated star.
Inert and plant life do not have any level a higher soul and never actively violate God’s plan and thus their creation was allowed under the influence of pure, untainted energy.”

I am not arguing that there was primordial light which didn't depend on the Sun or other stars. But, the Sun and the stars were created after the Earth according to Genesis. In reality the things are opposite.

 

[ESay]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

Keep in mind...
The Torah mentions people and events that affect humanity.
Adam has more children than just Kayin and Hevel, but you have to be able to read Hebrew in order to know that.
It is no surprise that civilizations existed 6,000 years ago.
It’s not like God commanded Adam to live in huts and swing in the trees.

Yes, He didn't command that. But if Adam was even a third human being on Earth, then he couldn't be created in the times when first known civilization began to form.

 

[irosie91]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

The first named human is Adam.
There are 2 human creations prior to Adam.
Read the verses very carefully...
There was a human and then there was a human comprised of Male/Female.

You will notice that the planet earth and plant life is created prior to the primordial light being downgraded to a concentrated star.
Inert and plant life do not have any level a higher soul and never actively violate God’s plan and thus their creation was allowed under the influence of pure, untainted energy.”

I am not arguing that there was primordial light which didn't depend on the Sun or other stars. But, the Sun and the stars were created after the Earth according to Genesis. In reality the things are opposite.

I am no expert----but actually the words used do not include "earth"----like
THE PLANET EARTH------I think a better translation is something like
first HEAVEN----meaning something like the whole universe -----and then something like "ground" which is something like not the universe but a place --haartez
which is something other than THE UNIVERSE

 

[Indeependent]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

The first named human is Adam.
There are 2 human creations prior to Adam.
Read the verses very carefully...
There was a human and then there was a human comprised of Male/Female.

You will notice that the planet earth and plant life is created prior to the primordial light being downgraded to a concentrated star.
Inert and plant life do not have any level a higher soul and never actively violate God’s plan and thus their creation was allowed under the influence of pure, untainted energy.”

I am not arguing that there was primordial light which didn't depend on the Sun or other stars. But, the Sun and the stars were created after the Earth according to Genesis. In reality the things are opposite.

And how much time elapsed before the sun was created?
The confusion of time is the horrible translation of “evening” and “morning” because “erev” does not mean “evening” and “boker” does not meaning “morning”.

 

[Indeependent]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

Keep in mind...
The Torah mentions people and events that affect humanity.
Adam has more children than just Kayin and Hevel, but you have to be able to read Hebrew in order to know that.
It is no surprise that civilizations existed 6,000 years ago.
It’s not like God commanded Adam to live in huts and swing in the trees.

Yes, He didn't command that. But if Adam was even a third human being on Earth, then he couldn't be created in the times when first known civilization began to form.

Why not?
Do you think God created a universe and just planted humans in a vast wasteland?
Certainly, the garden, east of Eden, was not unfit for human habitation.
Adam had to become a farmer; do you think he was dumped on an unwieldy plot of land and starved to death until the first crop was harvested?

 

[irosie91]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

The first named human is Adam.
There are 2 human creations prior to Adam.
Read the verses very carefully...
There was a human and then there was a human comprised of Male/Female.

You will notice that the planet earth and plant life is created prior to the primordial light being downgraded to a concentrated star.
Inert and plant life do not have any level a higher soul and never actively violate God’s plan and thus their creation was allowed under the influence of pure, untainted energy.”

I am not arguing that there was primordial light which didn't depend on the Sun or other stars. But, the Sun and the stars were created after the Earth according to Genesis. In reality the things are opposite.

And how much time elapsed before the sun was created?
The confusion of time is the horrible translation of “evening” and “morning” because “erev” does not mean “evening” and “boker” does not meaning “morning”.

boker does not mean morning? what does it mean? as to "evening" ---I am
not even sure what that means in English.

 

[ESay]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

The first named human is Adam.
There are 2 human creations prior to Adam.
Read the verses very carefully...
There was a human and then there was a human comprised of Male/Female.

You will notice that the planet earth and plant life is created prior to the primordial light being downgraded to a concentrated star.
Inert and plant life do not have any level a higher soul and never actively violate God’s plan and thus their creation was allowed under the influence of pure, untainted energy.”

I am not arguing that there was primordial light which didn't depend on the Sun or other stars. But, the Sun and the stars were created after the Earth according to Genesis. In reality the things are opposite.

And how much time elapsed before the sun was created?
The confusion of time is the horrible translation of “evening” and “morning” because “erev” does not mean “evening” and “boker” does not meaning “morning”.

I don't know. Maybe millions or tens of millions of years. The point is not about the time between these events; the point is all about the sequence of the events.

 

[ESay]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

Keep in mind...
The Torah mentions people and events that affect humanity.
Adam has more children than just Kayin and Hevel, but you have to be able to read Hebrew in order to know that.
It is no surprise that civilizations existed 6,000 years ago.
It’s not like God commanded Adam to live in huts and swing in the trees.

Yes, He didn't command that. But if Adam was even a third human being on Earth, then he couldn't be created in the times when first known civilization began to form.

Why not?
Do you think God created a universe and just planted humans in a vast wasteland?
Certainly, the garden, east of Eden, was not unfit for human habitation.
Adam had to become a farmer; do you think he was dumped on an unwieldy plot of land and starved to death until the first crop was harvested?

Because before the first great civilizations, there were some tens of thousand years during which humanity in contemporary form lived. The 'societies' of hunters, gatherers and the like.

I don't know what Adam ate before his first crop. He could well gather the 'fruits' of wild nature, as did people in the early stages of their development. But I don't get why it is of any significance.

 

[Indeependent]

You are thinking too “Christian”.
Verse 1 states that physical matter (“The earth”) and metaphysical matter (“The heavens”) were created “In the beginning”, not that the planet earth was created.

God’s initial “desire” was that His creation would be on a higher spiritual plane than it wound up.
This can be determined from the 2nd verse that “There was darkness upon the face of the DEEP”.
From it’s inception, any “existence”
outside of God is imperfect; yet God allowed existence to continue.

There are different gradients of “Light”.
One gradient of light is not concentrated in physical entities, such as a star.

You have to study the verses from verse 1 and drop the English translation as it is very poor.
But Constantine’s council was not interested in creating a spiritually oriented religion.

I cant read Tora in original language, so I have to use English or Russian translations.

I will write some verses from Genesis:

9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Doesnt this verse say about creation of Earth?

We have no idea how much time elapsed prior to the third iteration of the creation of Adam.
If you read carefully, there are 3 narratives of God creating a human; these 3 humans were different.

Can you give the names of these humans?

The only basis we have for time is Adam’s creation and his ongoing genealogy.
How much time elapses before Adam is created is anyone’s guess.

Genesis says that the first man's name was Adam. Tora tells about different Adams which lived in different time?

In any way, the first man (or even the 'third' first man) can't be created 6000 years ago, because the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt began to form approximately at that time.

Keep in mind...
The Torah mentions people and events that affect humanity.
Adam has more children than just Kayin and Hevel, but you have to be able to read Hebrew in order to know that.
It is no surprise that civilizations existed 6,000 years ago.
It’s not like God commanded Adam to live in huts and swing in the trees.

Yes, He didn't command that. But if Adam was even a third human being on Earth, then he couldn't be created in the times when first known civilization began to form.

Why not?
Do you think God created a universe and just planted humans in a vast wasteland?
Certainly, the garden, east of Eden, was not unfit for human habitation.
Adam had to become a farmer; do you think he was dumped on an unwieldy plot of land and starved to death until the first crop was harvested?

Because before the first great civilizations, there were some tens of thousand years during which humanity in contemporary form lived. The 'societies' of hunters, gatherers and the like.

I don't know what Adam ate before his first crop. He could well gather the 'fruits' of wild nature, as did people in the early stages of their development. But I don't get why it is of any significance.

It isn’t significant to me.
The human created before Adam was the hunter/ gatherer; sort of like an aborigine.
God did not breathe a soul into the 2 humans created before Adam.