EU Machinations: Don't Tell The Brits

[Annie]

I wonder how long this version is?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/03/weu103.xml

'Don't tell British about the EU treaty'

By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels and Brendan Carlin in London
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 03/07/2007

# Join the Telegraph campaign for an EU referendum

The new European Union treaty will mean "transfers of sovereignty" from Britain and Gordon Brown is right to hide the fact from the public, an EU leader admitted yesterday.

Jean-Claude Juncker, Luxembourg's premier and leader of the bloc of 13 single currency members, spoke out as the Prime Minister faced rising calls for a referendum on the treaty drawn up following the rejection of the old EU constitution by French and Dutch voters in 2005.
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Mr Juncker said he supported public debate on the treaty - except in Britain.

"I am astonished at those who are afraid of the people: one can always explain that what is in the interest of Europe is in the interests of our countries," he told Belgian newspaper Le Soir.

"Britain is different. Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"

...

 

[onedomino]

On C-Span, I saw Brown challenged on the EU Treaty in PM Questions and he dodged the issue. The questioner could not understand Brown's failure to support a British referendum on the EU Treaty. The EU Constitution could not pass the voters in France (and would not have passed the voters in the UK), and so the EU was dead in the water. Now the politicians are trying to get the same thing via Treaty, where the people will not have the opportunity to vote against the EU. The EU will then be born in an undemocratic process. And by the time it is rigged by the current politicians, voting them out of office will not make any difference.

 

[Annie]

On C-Span, I saw Brown challenged on the EU Treaty in PM Questions and he dodged the issue. The questioner could not understand Brown's failure to support a British referendum on the EU Treaty. The EU Constitution could not pass the voters in France (and would not have passed the voters in the UK), and so the EU was dead in the water. Now the politicians are trying to get the same thing via Treaty, where the people will not have the opportunity to vote against the EU. The EU will then be born in an undemocratic process. And by the time it is rigged by the current politicians, voting them out of office will not make any difference.

Agreed. Our system is quite complicated and with the exception of states' rights/slavery, civil war has been avoided. Europe has a long and bloody history of fighting amongst those states. Calling them 'one' is very unlikely to end the underlying currents. For all the talk of US 'nationalism' that has no meaning compared to the Europeans.

 

[onedomino]

Most people in the UK would vote against the EU Treaty if given the opportunity. But the new PM Brown is not going to give them that chance.

A Referendum on Europe
Posted by Anthony Wells in Europe, YouGov, ICM

Complete article: http://www.ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/993

Two very similar new polls about the European Union in advance of the newly negotiated EU treaty - ICM for Open Europe and YouGov for Paul Sykes’s Speak Out campaign.

Both polls show around half the public think that the EU already has too much power (in slightly differently worded questions YouGov found 59% thought the EU had too much power, ICM found 49%). Few people (6% in YouGov’s poll and 15% in ICM’s) thought the EU should have greater powers. Which is what the EU treaty accomplishes.

Both also found an overwhelming majority in favour of a referendum if the new treaty gives extra powers to the EU - 78% in YouGov’s poll and 86% in ICM’s. Not if the new PM Brown gets his way.

ICM asked how people would vote in a referendum on a treaty that “gives more powers to the EU” - 65% said they would vote against, with only 26% voting in favour. YouGov’s question was slightly more subtle - only 4% said they would vote in favour, 40% said they would vote against, 45% said it would depend upon the exact details of the treaty. This is actually an interesting result, and one that shows the difficulty facing the government in trying to win any such referendum: 40% of people say they will vote against a European treaty almost regardless of what the actual contents are. To win a referendum, the government would need to win over the vast majority of the 45% of people who say their vote would depend on what was actually in the treaty and, presumably, are open to pursuasion.

 

[tigerbob]

On C-Span, I saw Brown challenged on the EU Treaty in PM Questions and he dodged the issue. The questioner could not understand Brown's failure to support a British referendum on the EU Treaty. The EU Constitution could not pass the voters in France (and would not have passed the voters in the UK), and so the EU was dead in the water. Now the politicians are trying to get the same thing via Treaty, where the people will not have the opportunity to vote against the EU. The EU will then be born in an undemocratic process. And by the time it is rigged by the current politicians, voting them out of office will not make any difference.

Brown was questioned by David Cameron (leader of the Conservative Party) and, yes, he did sidestep everything. Cameron's lasting soundbite was when he said that when Gordon Brown took over (from Tony Blair) he promised to "listen to the people", which actually isn't that tough when you don't give them a chance to speak.

Brown hopes that by signing up to the treaty now he gets it out of the way well in advance of the next election and people will forget about it. True, the electorate have short memories, but I think Brown is setting himself up for a fall.