Ethics and The A-Bomb

[Kalam]

Targeting civilians or civilian population centers is always unethical; using weapons of mass destruction makes the situation unimaginably worse from a moral standpoint. By 1945, Japan's military had been crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. A bombing campaign against strategic military and industrial targets could have been carried out with minimal casualties among the US military as well as among Japan's civilian population.

 

[CurveLight]

It was understood at the time that unless the Japanese surrendered, we would lose as many as a half a million to a million of our fighting men to finally defeat the Japanese Empire. And the Japanese were not going to surrender. The citizenry was being trained in how to fight to the last man, woman and child.

It took the atomic bomb to prove to them that it was futile. And even the first one didn't turn the trick.

Compared to how many of OUR soldiers' lives were at stake -- not even counting the many fold MORE Japanese lives that would be lost -- the math alone underscores a tragic (but real) morality in going atomic.

A horrible, horrifying and wrenching decision by President Truman? Absolutely.

But immoral?

Based on the quantification of human life, the decision was far more moral than the alternative.

This is the same exact line that's been proven wrong on several levels.

The bombs did not make Japan change its conditions for surrender. At. All.

Straight up LIE. Before the bombs Japan wanted us to agree to a cease fire and a return to our 1941 start lines. They wanted no foreign presence in Japan , no Change of Government and no change of the Military. After the first bomb they still tried to make demands they want 4 things only one of which was the Emperor. After 2 bombs and a Soviet declaration of War they agreed to surrender and WE agreed to let them keep their Emperor as a FIGURE head only. The final surrender was UNCONDITIONAL. As evidenced by the Documents the Japanese signed.

You have yet to provide us with all the supposed surrender attempts by Japan in 1945. You keep making the claim but provide absolutely no evidence of such.

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

 

[CurveLight]

Targeting civilians or civilian population centers is always unethical; using weapons of mass destruction makes the situation unimaginably worse from a moral standpoint. By 1945, Japan's military had been crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. A bombing campaign against strategic military and industrial targets could have been carried out with minimal casualties among the US military as well as among Japan's civilian population.

One of the reasons the sites were chosen was based on creating an atomic barometer. They needed to drop the bombs in places that were very much in tact to measure the damage and fall out.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Targeting civilians or civilian population centers is always unethical; using weapons of mass destruction makes the situation unimaginably worse from a moral standpoint. By 1945, Japan's military had been crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. A bombing campaign against strategic military and industrial targets could have been carried out with minimal casualties among the US military as well as among Japan's civilian population.

That is exactly what happened: two atomic bombs and the Soviet invasion ended the war with very little casualties to Americans. No atomic bombs, no surrender.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is the same exact line that's been proven wrong on several levels.

The bombs did not make Japan change its conditions for surrender. At. All.

Straight up LIE. Before the bombs Japan wanted us to agree to a cease fire and a return to our 1941 start lines. They wanted no foreign presence in Japan , no Change of Government and no change of the Military. After the first bomb they still tried to make demands they want 4 things only one of which was the Emperor. After 2 bombs and a Soviet declaration of War they agreed to surrender and WE agreed to let them keep their Emperor as a FIGURE head only. The final surrender was UNCONDITIONAL. As evidenced by the Documents the Japanese signed.

You have yet to provide us with all the supposed surrender attempts by Japan in 1945. You keep making the claim but provide absolutely no evidence of such.

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You are now engaged in the immorality of stubbornness. Your assertion has flatly been disproved. You can't admit it, which says very poorly about your character.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is the same exact line that's been proven wrong on several levels.

The bombs did not make Japan change its conditions for surrender. At. All.

Straight up LIE. Before the bombs Japan wanted us to agree to a cease fire and a return to our 1941 start lines. They wanted no foreign presence in Japan , no Change of Government and no change of the Military. After the first bomb they still tried to make demands they want 4 things only one of which was the Emperor. After 2 bombs and a Soviet declaration of War they agreed to surrender and WE agreed to let them keep their Emperor as a FIGURE head only. The final surrender was UNCONDITIONAL. As evidenced by the Documents the Japanese signed.

You have yet to provide us with all the supposed surrender attempts by Japan in 1945. You keep making the claim but provide absolutely no evidence of such.

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You have made a claim, that Japan offered to Surrender in 1945 NUMEROUS times before either bomb was dropped. PROVE it. The ONLY offer they ever made was through the Soviets and that was not a surrender it was a cease fire with a pullback to the 1941 Line for all sides. And according to this offer nothing else would be done to the Japanese.

After the first bomb was dropped they made an offer with 4 demands. We rejected it. After the second bomb and the Soviet Declaration of War and Invasion Japan's Emperor ordered an immediate surrender with no Conditions. The Allies accepted and changed the term to keeping the Emperor as a FIGURE head. Japan surrendered unconditionally.

 

[CurveLight]

Straight up LIE. Before the bombs Japan wanted us to agree to a cease fire and a return to our 1941 start lines. They wanted no foreign presence in Japan , no Change of Government and no change of the Military. After the first bomb they still tried to make demands they want 4 things only one of which was the Emperor. After 2 bombs and a Soviet declaration of War they agreed to surrender and WE agreed to let them keep their Emperor as a FIGURE head only. The final surrender was UNCONDITIONAL. As evidenced by the Documents the Japanese signed.

You have yet to provide us with all the supposed surrender attempts by Japan in 1945. You keep making the claim but provide absolutely no evidence of such.

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You have made a claim, that Japan offered to Surrender in 1945 NUMEROUS times before either bomb was dropped. PROVE it. The ONLY offer they ever made was through the Soviets and that was not a surrender it was a cease fire with a pullback to the 1941 Line for all sides. And according to this offer nothing else would be done to the Japanese.

After the first bomb was dropped they made an offer with 4 demands. We rejected it. After the second bomb and the Soviet Declaration of War and Invasion Japan's Emperor ordered an immediate surrender with no Conditions. The Allies accepted and changed the term to keeping the Emperor as a FIGURE head. Japan surrendered unconditionally.

This is rock solid proof you ignore facts you don't like because I've linked a government website showing japan offered a conditional surrender but you continue to ignore it.....like your twin Starkey.

 

[CurveLight]

Straight up LIE. Before the bombs Japan wanted us to agree to a cease fire and a return to our 1941 start lines. They wanted no foreign presence in Japan , no Change of Government and no change of the Military. After the first bomb they still tried to make demands they want 4 things only one of which was the Emperor. After 2 bombs and a Soviet declaration of War they agreed to surrender and WE agreed to let them keep their Emperor as a FIGURE head only. The final surrender was UNCONDITIONAL. As evidenced by the Documents the Japanese signed.

You have yet to provide us with all the supposed surrender attempts by Japan in 1945. You keep making the claim but provide absolutely no evidence of such.

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You are now engaged in the immorality of stubbornness. Your assertion has flatly been disproved. You can't admit it, which says very poorly about your character.

Flatly disproved? Lol....you have ignored the government link I posted showing Japan's offer of a surrender on one condition and we accepted. But you keep on ignoring that..........hell.....you don't even attempt to support your claims like saying all the top military leaders were wrong for saying the bomb was not necessary.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You have made a claim, that Japan offered to Surrender in 1945 NUMEROUS times before either bomb was dropped. PROVE it. The ONLY offer they ever made was through the Soviets and that was not a surrender it was a cease fire with a pullback to the 1941 Line for all sides. And according to this offer nothing else would be done to the Japanese.

After the first bomb was dropped they made an offer with 4 demands. We rejected it. After the second bomb and the Soviet Declaration of War and Invasion Japan's Emperor ordered an immediate surrender with no Conditions. The Allies accepted and changed the term to keeping the Emperor as a FIGURE head. Japan surrendered unconditionally.

This is rock solid proof you ignore facts you don't like because I've linked a government website showing japan offered a conditional surrender but you continue to ignore it.....like your twin Starkey.

Your website misinterprets the facts, thus the conclusion is wrong.

You would fail any paper you had to turn in on this subject with that interpretation. The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that you are intellectually anoxeric, refusing to ingest all the evidence. This is not being persuasive, but demagogic on your part.

Curve, the rest of America is not out of step, you are.

 

[Samson]

Straight up LIE. Before the bombs Japan wanted us to agree to a cease fire and a return to our 1941 start lines. They wanted no foreign presence in Japan , no Change of Government and no change of the Military. After the first bomb they still tried to make demands they want 4 things only one of which was the Emperor. After 2 bombs and a Soviet declaration of War they agreed to surrender and WE agreed to let them keep their Emperor as a FIGURE head only. The final surrender was UNCONDITIONAL. As evidenced by the Documents the Japanese signed.

You have yet to provide us with all the supposed surrender attempts by Japan in 1945. You keep making the claim but provide absolutely no evidence of such.

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You are now engaged in the immorality of stubbornness. Your assertion has flatly been disproved. You can't admit it, which says very poorly about your character.

He cannot admit it, which only makes him pitiful.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You have made a claim, that Japan offered to Surrender in 1945 NUMEROUS times before either bomb was dropped. PROVE it. The ONLY offer they ever made was through the Soviets and that was not a surrender it was a cease fire with a pullback to the 1941 Line for all sides. And according to this offer nothing else would be done to the Japanese.

After the first bomb was dropped they made an offer with 4 demands. We rejected it. After the second bomb and the Soviet Declaration of War and Invasion Japan's Emperor ordered an immediate surrender with no Conditions. The Allies accepted and changed the term to keeping the Emperor as a FIGURE head. Japan surrendered unconditionally.

This is rock solid proof you ignore facts you don't like because I've linked a government website showing japan offered a conditional surrender but you continue to ignore it.....like your twin Starkey.

You are a LIAR. I provided the minutes from the Japanese Government, I provided the Magic intercepts, they made a surrender offer ONLY after the first bomb. YOU have claimed they made numerous requests including JUST keeping the Emperor. PROVE your claim.

 

[Liability]

There is nothing that can be posted that you would pay attention to unless it appeared to re-affirm your pre-maturely developed position. I've already posted evidence that you flat out ignore but demand more......

You are now engaged in the immorality of stubbornness. Your assertion has flatly been disproved. You can't admit it, which says very poorly about your character.

He cannot admit it, which only makes him pitiful.

True. But like a bad dog which has shit on your rug, he CAN have his nose rubbed in it:

We, acting by command of and on behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.

We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese Armed Forces and all Armed Forces under Japanese control wherever situated.

* * * *

Japanese Instrument of Surrender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bad PussyPuddle. Bad *****.

 

[namvet]

VJ day Honolulu. I don't think dead Japs were on their minds

[youtube]ZqNbB5-XxK8[/youtube]

65 Years Ago my Dad shot this film along Kalakaua Ave. in Waikiki capturing spontaneous celebrations that broke out upon first hearing news of the Japanese surrender. Kodachrome 16mm film: God Bless Kodachrome, right? I was able to find an outfit to do a much superior scan of this footage to what I had previously posted, so I re-did this film and replaced the older version There are still images from this amazing day, in color, at discoveringhawaii.com

 

[JakeStarkey]

Just remember that it takes a village so that conloons like Curve don't ran amuck across the countryside being chased by people with pitchforks and torches.

What yo-yos they are.

 

[CurveLight]

You have made a claim, that Japan offered to Surrender in 1945 NUMEROUS times before either bomb was dropped. PROVE it. The ONLY offer they ever made was through the Soviets and that was not a surrender it was a cease fire with a pullback to the 1941 Line for all sides. And according to this offer nothing else would be done to the Japanese.

After the first bomb was dropped they made an offer with 4 demands. We rejected it. After the second bomb and the Soviet Declaration of War and Invasion Japan's Emperor ordered an immediate surrender with no Conditions. The Allies accepted and changed the term to keeping the Emperor as a FIGURE head. Japan surrendered unconditionally.

This is rock solid proof you ignore facts you don't like because I've linked a government website showing japan offered a conditional surrender but you continue to ignore it.....like your twin Starkey.

Your website misinterprets the facts, thus the conclusion is wrong.

You would fail any paper you had to turn in on this subject with that interpretation. The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that you are intellectually anoxeric, refusing to ingest all the evidence. This is not being persuasive, but demagogic on your part.

Curve, the rest of America is not out of step, you are.

Lol...same stoopid shit. You say a post is wrong then throw in ad homs and don't even attempt to support your claims.

 

[Kalam]

Targeting civilians or civilian population centers is always unethical; using weapons of mass destruction makes the situation unimaginably worse from a moral standpoint. By 1945, Japan's military had been crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. A bombing campaign against strategic military and industrial targets could have been carried out with minimal casualties among the US military as well as among Japan's civilian population.

That is exactly what happened:

No, it isn't, unless you believe that the instant vaporization of hundreds of thousands of people can be written off because of their nationality. What a disingenuous claim. I suppose this type of callousness towards the slaughter of civilians should be expected from an avowed Zionist.

two atomic bombs and the Soviet invasion ended the war with very little casualties to Americans. No atomic bombs, no surrender.

Baseless. Nationality is an artificial distinction. The location of a person's birth doesn't make his life any more or less valuable than his neighbor's.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Targeting civilians or civilian population centers is always unethical; using weapons of mass destruction makes the situation unimaginably worse from a moral standpoint. By 1945, Japan's military had been crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. A bombing campaign against strategic military and industrial targets could have been carried out with minimal casualties among the US military as well as among Japan's civilian population.

That is exactly what happened:

No, it isn't, unless you believe that the instant vaporization of hundreds of thousands of people can be written off because of their nationality. What a disingenuous claim. I suppose this type of callousness towards the slaughter of civilians should be expected from an avowed Zionist.

two atomic bombs and the Soviet invasion ended the war with very little casualties to Americans. No atomic bombs, no surrender.

Baseless. Nationality is an artificial distinction. The location of a person's birth doesn't make his life any more or less valuable than his neighbor's.

Hundreds of thousands were not vaporized in EITHER city dumb ass. And yes the Two Bombs ended the Pacific War, with out them we would have been forced to Invade them.

 

[namvet]

That is exactly what happened:

No, it isn't, unless you believe that the instant vaporization of hundreds of thousands of people can be written off because of their nationality. What a disingenuous claim. I suppose this type of callousness towards the slaughter of civilians should be expected from an avowed Zionist.

two atomic bombs and the Soviet invasion ended the war with very little casualties to Americans. No atomic bombs, no surrender.

Baseless. Nationality is an artificial distinction. The location of a person's birth doesn't make his life any more or less valuable than his neighbor's.

Hundreds of thousands were not vaporized in EITHER city dumb ass. And yes the Two Bombs ended the Pacific War, with out them we would have been forced to Invade them.

CurveLight would never have been born. hmmm

 

[JakeStarkey]

Targeting civilians or civilian population centers is always unethical; using weapons of mass destruction makes the situation unimaginably worse from a moral standpoint. By 1945, Japan's military had been crippled to the point of ineffectiveness. A bombing campaign against strategic military and industrial targets could have been carried out with minimal casualties among the US military as well as among Japan's civilian population.

That is exactly what happened:

No, it isn't, unless you believe that the instant vaporization of hundreds of thousands of people can be written off because of their nationality. What a disingenuous claim. I suppose this type of callousness towards the slaughter of civilians should be expected from an avowed Zionist.

two atomic bombs and the Soviet invasion ended the war with very little casualties to Americans. No atomic bombs, no surrender.

Baseless. Nationality is an artificial distinction. The location of a person's birth doesn't make his life any more or less valuable than his neighbor's.

What a goof. The nation states have superseded the Papacy and the Caliphate, and geography grounds an individual's character and values system. The proper course was taken about Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

 

[Kalam]

That is exactly what happened:

No, it isn't, unless you believe that the instant vaporization of hundreds of thousands of people can be written off because of their nationality. What a disingenuous claim. I suppose this type of callousness towards the slaughter of civilians should be expected from an avowed Zionist.

two atomic bombs and the Soviet invasion ended the war with very little casualties to Americans. No atomic bombs, no surrender.

Baseless. Nationality is an artificial distinction. The location of a person's birth doesn't make his life any more or less valuable than his neighbor's.

What a goof. The nation states have superseded the Papacy and the Caliphate, and geography grounds an individual's character and values system. The proper course was taken about Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

When 3,000 Americans are killed over the span of several hours, the incident is recognized as a national tragedy and two unnecessary wars are started overseas. When 300,000 Japanese are killed in an instant, the day is celebrated as a national holiday. I see.