Equality and Israeli Citizenship

[Coyote]

Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.

 

[Lipush]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

 

[Shusha]

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups?

African-Americans.

 

[Jroc]

Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.

Examples please, or put your "Thread" in the opinion section..thanks for your help with this

 

[Shusha]

...I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.

What would you propose as a solution?

Should we give the southern US to the blacks and the whites can keep the north?

 

[Coyote]

...I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.

What would you propose as a solution?

Should we give the southern US to the blacks and the whites can keep the north?

For one, I think there should be only one citizenship - Israeli, that covers all citizens. I think that would be more of a uniting factor, whereas a divided system, divides citizens.

It would be as if the US had two categories of American citizenship: Black Americans and White Americans. That doesn't mean social/ethnic/racial divisions would cease to exist, but it would be easier to be Americans first.

 

[Coyote]

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups?

African-Americans.

That's self-identifying. That isn't citizenship.

 

[TheOldSchool]

...I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.

What would you propose as a solution?

Should we give the southern US to the blacks and the whites can keep the north?

Let's pick the most important 8,000 square miles of Alabama, kick out everyone who lives there, and put all the black people there. All black people can come and go and live there no questions asked. If you're not black, you may never set foot there without jumping through a ton of hoops. Then let's give them tons of money, and hold their priorities above our own. Then let's prop them up militarily against the former Alabamans who were kicked out and all of their supporters who want to get in. We will help slaughter and blockade the formerly Alabaman terrorists.

 

[Coyote]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

 

[Shusha]

It would be as if the US had two categories of American citizenship: Black Americans and White Americans. That doesn't mean social/ethnic/racial divisions would cease to exist, but it would be easier to be Americans first.

So you think African-Americans should stop calling themselves African-Americans? Because it furthers the divide between black and white Americans.

 

[Lipush]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.

 

[Shusha]

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups?

African-Americans.

That's self-identifying. That isn't citizenship.

Same as Israel.

 

[Coyote]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.

Is it "groundless"?

Ok - IS there a all encompassing Israeli Citizenship?

 

[TheOldSchool]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.

Remember when the Prime Minister of Israel Netanyahu appealed to his base to go vote by saying the dirty Arabs were getting bused to election sites? Now that's equality.

 

[Shusha]

Is it "groundless"?

Ok - IS there a all encompassing Israeli Citizenship?

Just as there is no difference between the citizenship of a black American and the citizenship of a white American -- there is no difference between the citizenship of a Jewish Israeli and the citizenship of an Arab Israeli.

 

[Coyote]

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups?

African-Americans.

That's self-identifying. That isn't citizenship.

Same as Israel.

Doesn't seem like it: citizenship in Israel is many more times complicated by ethnic and religious identity and seperate classes.

Israel's dilemma: Who can be an Israeli?
Israeli citizenship is designed very differently from the American model. Here, if you are born in the country or become an American citizen, you retain your citizenship unless you seek to renounce it. U.S. citizenship is not conditioned on ethnic or religious origin, and every citizen has the same rights and responsibilities.

 

[Coyote]

• There is no such thing as “Israeli nationality.” In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that recognizing “Israeli nationality” would create a schism between the Jewish people, making them choose between their Jewish identity and their Israeli identity.[13] “[T]he principle of self-determination should, in its view, apply to peoples and not to ‘shreds of peoples’ …”[14] The Israeli Supreme Court quoted a lower court’s reasoning: “One cannot belong to two nationalities. If an Israeli nationality is recognized, members of the Jewish nationality in Israel will have to choose between the two: Are they Israelis, in which case they would not be Jewish; or are they Jewish, in which case they would not be Israeli; the same would apply to members of minority groups [in Israel]. Recognition of such nationality may bring about the national and social disintegration of the entire nation … A separatist trend of splitting the Jewish nations must not be accepted.”[15]

Source: CitizenshipNationalityIsrael/Palestine

If this is true, and there is no such thing as an "Israeli nationality" - what is there?

Are the rights and responsibilities the same?

 

[Lipush]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.

Is it "groundless"?

Ok - IS there a all encompassing Israeli Citizenship?

I think yes.

 

[Lipush]

8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.

Remember when the Prime Minister of Israel Netanyahu appealed to his base to go vote by saying the dirty Arabs were getting bused to election sites? Now that's equality.

Wow. Talk about twisting the facts, eh?

First, nowhere did he use "dirty" to describe the Arabs, that is just your mean add-on. But never mind that.

And yes, he did say to go voting because the Arabs vote. For the simple reason that Israeli Arabs are naturally on the left wing, and Netanyahu is a rightist leader. It's like a Republican telling Republicans to go and vote since the democratic votes are sky high.

Nothing racist about it.

And I'm not a Likud supporter, btw.

 

[Shusha]

Israeli citizenship is designed very differently from the American model. Here, if you are born in the country or become an American citizen, you retain your citizenship unless you seek to renounce it. U.S. citizenship is not conditioned on ethnic or religious origin, and every citizen has the same rights and responsibilities.

Most of the world's nations use jus sanguinis (as opposed to jus soli) as a model for citizenship, including the US which uses a combination of both. This model grants citizenship by virtue of the parent's nationality -- thus the child of an American citizen gains the privilege of American citizenship (jus sanguinis). Those born in the US are also granted the privilege of American citizenship, regardless of the parent's nationality (jus soli)

Israel, like nearly every nation in Europe, uses ONLY jus sanguinis -- citizenship is passed from parent to child. This applies to ALL citizens and citizenships equally and is not "conditioned on ethnic or religious origin".

In addition, Israel has created a system whereby the Jewish people are essentially considered to be citizens of Israel. There are many other nations which use ethnicity or cultural origins as an expedited pathway to citizenship in varying degrees, including Croatia, Greece, Ireland, Rwanda, Serbia, Turkey, Spain, South Korea.