Israeli Public Opinion and the Peace Process

[Coyote]

This thread is to discuss Israeli public opinion as it relates to the Peace Process and their beliefs concerning the Palestinians and their views on what their state should be.

I'll post more later.

 

[Lipush]

The what now?

 

[Coyote]

Pew is a reputable polling source, so I'm choosing theirs as it is very recent: Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Israel is now approaching 70 years of existence, that is almost 3 generations as a state. Israel is a diverse state when it comes to opinions, and it is far more similar to the US than it's neighboring states in that it IS a nation of immigrants. Whether you call them "returnees" or "immigrants" the end is the same. You have people from all over the world coming to Israel, and bringing with them the cultures of their former countries. The only thing tying them together is their Jewish faith and culture, but even then you go from secular to highly religious, and you have divisions in opinion depending on their country of origin. I think that makes Israel fascinating, more so than Palestinian culture, pluralistic, and harder to pin down. The other aspect that makes Israel both unique but also somewhat similar to some of it's neighbors is the role of religion in public life, politics and law. Israel is trying to be both a Jewish state and a democracy. Can that work? Is it working? And how does that affect prospects for peace?

From: How Israel’s Jewishness is overtaking its democracy

When U.S. leaders and commentators warn that the absence of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will make it impossible for Israel to be both a Jewish and democratic state, they generally mean that a Jewish democracy requires a Jewish majority; if Israel encompasses the West Bank and Gaza, Arabs will become a majority. What they may not have realized is that, in the meantime, half of Israeli Jews have come to seek not only a Jewish majority but even Jewish exclusivity.


That is one of the most troubling findings of a new Pew poll in Israel. And it doesn’t bode well for Arab-Jewish coexistence in Israel—even aside from what happens in the West Bank and Gaza.​

When you compare what seems almost similar views in the Palestinian poll I quoted in another thread - what are the prospects for peace here?


From the link to the Pew report:

Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

Deep gulfs among Jews, as well as between Jews and Arabs, over political values and religion’s role in public life

Nearly 70 years after the establishment of the modern State of Israel, its Jewish population remains united behind the idea that Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people and a necessary refuge from rising anti-Semitism around the globe. But alongside these sources of unity, a major new survey by Pew Research Center also finds deep divisions in Israeli society – not only between Israeli Jews and the country’s Arab minority, but also among the religious subgroups that make up Israeli Jewry.

Nearly all Israeli Jews identify with one of four categories: Haredi (commonly translated as “ultra-Orthodox”), Dati (“religious”), Masorti (“traditional”) or Hiloni (“secular”).


Although they live in the same small country and share many traditions, highly religious and secular Jews inhabit largely separate social worlds, with relatively few close friends and little intermarriage outside their own groups. In fact, the survey finds that secular Jews in Israel are more uncomfortable with the notion that a child of theirs might someday marry an ultra-Orthodox Jew than they are with the prospect of their child marrying a Christian. (See Chapter 11 for more information.)

Moreover, these divisions are reflected in starkly contrasting positions on many public policy questions, including marriage, divorce, religious conversion, military conscription, gender segregation and public transportation. Overwhelmingly, Haredi and Dati Jews (both generally considered Orthodox) express the view that Israel’s government should promote religious beliefs and values, while secular Jews strongly favor separation of religion from government policy.​

From the poll:

 

[Lipush]

I don't remember being asked anything

 

[Coyote]

I don't remember being asked anything

You didn't raise your hand?

Go through the questions and provide your answers

 

[Jroc]

This thread is to discuss Israeli public opinion as it relates to the Peace Process and their beliefs concerning the Palestinians and their views on what their state should be.

I'll post more later.

Ask yourself this, would Jews be safe in a "Palestinian" state? would they be allowed to live in such a state?

 

[Lipush]

Oh? Oo. Ok, then.

First of, I don't really agree with the definition as it is, in Israel. Most Israeli Jews are traditional. If you ask we respect the holidays and go to the synagogue or the Kotel at least once in awhile. The strictly religious and completely secular Jews are in minority.

So I see myself as Masortit.

Preferential treatments of Jews, yes or no? Mhmm. Yes. But only when it comes to immigration. Nothing less, nothing more.

Should Arabs be expelled? Family members of Israeli Arabs who commit terror against civilians and state, definitely. Should everyday Arabs should be expelled 'Just because'? 'F'course not. Those who voted yes are assholes.

Two states solution possible? No.

 

[Jroc]

Lets keep it simple for the O.P.

 

[Lipush]

insightful.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Lets keep it simple for the O.P.

Indeed, "simple" is quite correct.

 

[Lipush]

The opinion on the subject is divided. Most Israelis will reject the idea of 1967 borders. now THAT's a fact.

 

[Boston1]

In general my experience with other First Nations people has been that they wouldn't expel every colonist everywhere. Only the violent ones apposed to peaceful coexistence

 

[Lipush]

True.

 

[Coyote]

Oh? Oo. Ok, then.

First of, I don't really agree with the definition as it is, in Israel. Most Israeli Jews are traditional. If you ask we respect the holidays and go to the synagogue or the Kotel at least once in awhile. The strictly religious and completely secular Jews are in minority.

So I see myself as Masortit.

Preferential treatments of Jews, yes or no? Mhmm. Yes. But only when it comes to immigration. Nothing less, nothing more.

Should Arabs be expelled? Family members of Israeli Arabs who commit terror against civilians and state, definitely. Should everyday Arabs should be expelled 'Just because'? 'F'course not. Those who voted yes are assholes.

Two states solution possible? No.

Out of curiousity, why do you believe a two-state solution is impossible?

I'm beginning to think that way, but have not given up on it.

 

[Coyote]

In general my experience with other First Nations people has been that they wouldn't expel every colonist everywhere. Only the violent ones apposed to peaceful coexistence

That doesn't seem reflected in the public opinon poll though - in 3 of the 4 Jewish categories, more than half wanted to expell the Arabs. There was no distinction between violent and non-violent. I will have to see how they actually worded the questions though.

 

[Lipush]

Oh? Oo. Ok, then.

First of, I don't really agree with the definition as it is, in Israel. Most Israeli Jews are traditional. If you ask we respect the holidays and go to the synagogue or the Kotel at least once in awhile. The strictly religious and completely secular Jews are in minority.

So I see myself as Masortit.

Preferential treatments of Jews, yes or no? Mhmm. Yes. But only when it comes to immigration. Nothing less, nothing more.

Should Arabs be expelled? Family members of Israeli Arabs who commit terror against civilians and state, definitely. Should everyday Arabs should be expelled 'Just because'? 'F'course not. Those who voted yes are assholes.

Two states solution possible? No.

Out of curiousity, why do you believe a two-state solution is impossible?

I'm beginning to think that way, but have not given up on it.

Because if you take notice at your own threads, neither one of us wants the other around. And you cannot force people to get along.

 

[Lipush]

In general my experience with other First Nations people has been that they wouldn't expel every colonist everywhere. Only the violent ones apposed to peaceful coexistence

That doesn't seem reflected in the public opinon poll though - in 3 of the 4 Jewish categories, more than half wanted to expell the Arabs. There was no distinction between violent and non-violent. I will have to see how they actually worded the questions though.

And 70% of Arabs want to expel Jews. Which is just making my point.

 

[Coyote]

Oh? Oo. Ok, then.

First of, I don't really agree with the definition as it is, in Israel. Most Israeli Jews are traditional. If you ask we respect the holidays and go to the synagogue or the Kotel at least once in awhile. The strictly religious and completely secular Jews are in minority.

So I see myself as Masortit.

Preferential treatments of Jews, yes or no? Mhmm. Yes. But only when it comes to immigration. Nothing less, nothing more.

Should Arabs be expelled? Family members of Israeli Arabs who commit terror against civilians and state, definitely. Should everyday Arabs should be expelled 'Just because'? 'F'course not. Those who voted yes are assholes.

Two states solution possible? No.

Out of curiousity, why do you believe a two-state solution is impossible?

I'm beginning to think that way, but have not given up on it.

Because if you take notice at your own threads, neither one of us wants the other around. And you cannot force people to get along.

I would think that would make a two-state solution easier - two seperate states.

 

[Lipush]

Oh? Oo. Ok, then.

First of, I don't really agree with the definition as it is, in Israel. Most Israeli Jews are traditional. If you ask we respect the holidays and go to the synagogue or the Kotel at least once in awhile. The strictly religious and completely secular Jews are in minority.

So I see myself as Masortit.

Preferential treatments of Jews, yes or no? Mhmm. Yes. But only when it comes to immigration. Nothing less, nothing more.

Should Arabs be expelled? Family members of Israeli Arabs who commit terror against civilians and state, definitely. Should everyday Arabs should be expelled 'Just because'? 'F'course not. Those who voted yes are assholes.

Two states solution possible? No.

Out of curiousity, why do you believe a two-state solution is impossible?

I'm beginning to think that way, but have not given up on it.

Because if you take notice at your own threads, neither one of us wants the other around. And you cannot force people to get along.

I would think that would make a two-state solution easier - two seperate states.

And what will be the borders?

 

[Coyote]

In general my experience with other First Nations people has been that they wouldn't expel every colonist everywhere. Only the violent ones apposed to peaceful coexistence

That doesn't seem reflected in the public opinon poll though - in 3 of the 4 Jewish categories, more than half wanted to expell the Arabs. There was no distinction between violent and non-violent. I will have to see how they actually worded the questions though.

And 70% of Arabs want to expel Jews. Which is just making my point.

Which point?