Debate Now Equal Opportunity vs. Equality of Result

[jwoodie]

It seems to me that the tension between these two concepts has never been greater in the U.S. Indeed, social and political divisions are growing wider every day. The same fact or event is often perceived so differently that it becomes almost unrecognizable to the opposing side.

Undoubtedly, the Equality of Result has been in the ascendant, as continuing racial or ethnic achievement gaps have fueled more government programs and campaign rhetoric to combat "institutional" discrimination. My question is: Where will this all lead? There is no sign that these achievement gaps will be closed in the foreseeable future, so what are the social and political ramifications of perpetual dissatisfaction among increasing numbers of our population?

Will we become a vertically segregated society, where both governmental and business organizations will be required to set aside positions at every level in order to achieve a particular "diversity" ratio? This is not a rant against Affirmative Action; rather, it is a question of how we will deal with increasing resentment as these achievement gaps persist. Will we ever be able to return to the concept of Equal Opportunity?

 

[Indeependent]

Equal Opportunity based upon Academic Achievement and Accomplishment.
No relativism.

 

[Unkotare]

Ever read "Harrison Bergeron"?

 

[danielpalos]

It seems to me that the tension between these two concepts has never been greater in the U.S. Indeed, social and political divisions are growing wider every day. The same fact or event is often perceived so differently that it becomes almost unrecognizable to the opposing side.

Undoubtedly, the Equality of Result has been in the ascendant, as continuing racial or ethnic achievement gaps have fueled more government programs and campaign rhetoric to combat "institutional" discrimination. My question is: Where will this all lead? There is no sign that these achievement gaps will be closed in the foreseeable future, so what are the social and political ramifications of perpetual dissatisfaction among increasing numbers of our population?

Will we become a vertically segregated society, where both governmental and business organizations will be required to set aside positions at every level in order to achieve a particular "diversity" ratio? This is not a rant against Affirmative Action; rather, it is a question of how we will deal with increasing resentment as these achievement gaps persist. Will we ever be able to return to the concept of Equal Opportunity?

No one is claiming socialism requires equality of results for private Individuals; but equality of result in macro economics and the law.

 

[Moonglow]

If the OP were true then the rich, which have the best advantage would not use it...Just because you have a degree from an expensive school, does not mean a more intelligent person....But having friends in the right places does...
As the old saying goes.....It's not what you know, but who you blow....

 

[jwoodie]

No one is claiming socialism requires equality of results for private Individuals; but equality of result in macro economics and the law.

Isn't this a distinction without a difference? Macro solutions always affect private individuals.

 

[danielpalos]

No one is claiming socialism requires equality of results for private Individuals; but equality of result in macro economics and the law.

Isn't this a distinction without a difference? Macro solutions always affect private individuals.

nope; it is all about implementation; equality also affects individuals and it is a Social concept not a Capital concept.

 

[TNHarley]

I think it is possible, OP. However, only if it happens quick enough. If it goes to much farther, it could only change with Revolution. Many people want it, but they have had difficulty finding a leader that is willing to actually do something.
Integrity seems like a thing of the past. People are fools.

 

[jwoodie]

No one is claiming socialism requires equality of results for private Individuals; but equality of result in macro economics and the law.

Isn't this a distinction without a difference? Macro solutions always affect private individuals.

nope; it is all about implementation; equality also affects individuals and it is a Social concept not a Capital concept.

I beg to differ. Equality of Opportunity enables individuals; it does not affect them except in the most general sense.

 

[danielpalos]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

 

[WelfareQueen]

All people are created unequal. Period. No amount of Government intervention will change that. The Soviets among many others tried it, and it failed miserably.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

This statement is patently insane. There is no such thing as equality of outcomes...nor should there be. All people have different degrees of intelligence, skills, ability and motivation. Equal opportunity is fine. Equal outcomes are insane and a Socialist fantasy.

 

[jwoodie]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

LOL, you might want to rephrase that...

 

[danielpalos]

All people are created unequal. Period. No amount of Government intervention will change that. The Soviets among many others tried it, and it failed miserably.

equality before the law does not mean equality as individuals.

 

[danielpalos]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

This statement is patently insane. There is no such thing as equality of outcomes...nor should there be. All people have different degrees of intelligence, skills, ability and motivation. Equal opportunity is fine. Equal outcomes are insane and a Socialist fantasy.

a person who is not guilty should be set free. that form of equality of outcome is what i am referring to.

 

[danielpalos]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

LOL, you might want to rephrase that...

marijuana laws are not similar to alcohol laws; both are powerful, mood altering drugs.

 

[Asclepias]

It seems to me that the tension between these two concepts has never been greater in the U.S. Indeed, social and political divisions are growing wider every day. The same fact or event is often perceived so differently that it becomes almost unrecognizable to the opposing side.

Undoubtedly, the Equality of Result has been in the ascendant, as continuing racial or ethnic achievement gaps have fueled more government programs and campaign rhetoric to combat "institutional" discrimination. My question is: Where will this all lead? There is no sign that these achievement gaps will be closed in the foreseeable future, so what are the social and political ramifications of perpetual dissatisfaction among increasing numbers of our population?

Will we become a vertically segregated society, where both governmental and business organizations will be required to set aside positions at every level in order to achieve a particular "diversity" ratio? This is not a rant against Affirmative Action; rather, it is a question of how we will deal with increasing resentment as these achievement gaps persist. Will we ever be able to return to the concept of Equal Opportunity?

There is no such thing as equality of opportunity. Its a mystical concept that assumes those that own the ability to offer these opportunities are willing to offer them to those that they may harbor prejudice against for various reasons.

Like wise there is no such thing as equality of results because even if given the same opportunity some will not work as hard as others to take advantage of that opportunity nor will they be at the same level of preparedness.

 

[Programmer]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

There's having a shot and taking it, and taking a shot and winning to account for. Human opportunity doesn't make for such simple math.

 

[danielpalos]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

There's having a shot and taking it, and taking a shot and winning to account for. Human opportunity doesn't make for such simple math.

While I agree that happens; it should be a Standard, more fixed than that when it comes to social justice.

 

[Programmer]

Equality of opportunity before the law should result in equality of outcomes, ceteris paribus. We all know that is not the case.

There's having a shot and taking it, and taking a shot and winning to account for. Human opportunity doesn't make for such simple math.

While I agree that happens; it should be a Standard, more fixed than that when it comes to social justice.

The difficulty lies in that the prevailing factor in the outcome is merit (or demerit). Luck even plays a significant role. Depending on the complexity of your goals, you can luck out and find no social roadblocks in your way at all.