End the Occupation

[member]

I predict that by the end of this century America will nuke Israel completely off the map. Someone like Trump, but not Trump, will be in a position of power and represent the voice of those Americans who are fed up to their backteeth with the whole "Jews rule the world" thang and the whole unfairness of Israel being an obvious bully & oppressor of Palestine. We will just say enough is enough. Clear the slate. We're sick of hearing about it. You're a gaping wound that needs cauterized.

Perhaps America will use a neutron bomb...you don't hear much about them anymore...

oh, not until the end did i realize i should be reading your post in British-English.....

- Supersedes

....(Supercedes)

and, your backward date..............16/10/16....


speaking of backward: "Americans who are fed up to their backteeth with the whole "Jews rule the world" thang ..."



...how are they ruling you ? ...... what are they blocking your front door ?

​

 

[The Pipe]

Ye didn't read the post carefully. Go back and read it again. I said nothing about myself under threat from those dastardly jews. I said we are sick about hearing & reading about it. Israel bullies Palestine and will never stop until they are nuked off the map. Simples.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Everything inside Palestine's international borders to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's international borders to Israel.

Please define these existing international borders between Israel and Palestine.

The borders of Palestine and the borders of Israel were referenced in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

You should read them.

 

[Shusha]

Everything inside Palestine's international borders to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's international borders to Israel.

Please define these existing international borders between Israel and Palestine.

The borders of Palestine and the borders of Israel were referenced in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

You should read them.

You know very well I am sufficiently versed in all the legal documents to discuss them intelligently. There is no need to be snide nor coy.

The agreement between Jordan and Israel states: "... no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims, and positions of either Party hereto in the peaceful settlement of the Palestine questions, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations" (Art. II.2), "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto." (Art. VI.9)

Make your case that anywhere in the agreement there is a differentiation between Palestine and Israel and an international boundary between them.

 

[Shusha]

And here's the wording of the Israel-Egypt agreement:

It is emphasized that it is not the purpose of this Agreement to establish, to recognise, to strengthen, or to weaken or nullify, in any way, any territorial, custodial or other rights, claims or interests which may be asserted by either Party in the area of Palestine or any part or locality thereof covered by this Agreement, whether such asserted rights, claims or interests derive from Security Council resolutions, including the resolution of 4 November 1948 and the Memorandum of 13 November 1948 for its implementation, or from any other source. The provisions of this Agreement are dictated exclusively by military considerations and are valid only for the period of the Armistice.

 

[The Pipe]

Everything inside Palestine's international borders to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's international borders to Israel.

Please define these existing international borders between Israel and Palestine.

The borders of Palestine and the borders of Israel were referenced in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

You should read them.

You know very well I am sufficiently versed in all the legal documents to discuss them intelligently. There is no need to be snide nor coy.

The agreement between Jordan and Israel states: "... no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims, and positions of either Party hereto in the peaceful settlement of the Palestine questions, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations" (Art. II.2), "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto." (Art. VI.9)

Make your case that anywhere in the agreement there is a differentiation between Palestine and Israel and an international boundary between them.

Your sig line: Anti-Zionism is the extremist belief that the Jewish people are not a people, have no history and no rights to a homeland.

Here's the basic flaw about the Jewish Situation: You are not the only people on the planet. The planet was not made exclusively for you. Use a dictionary and look up the word PEOPLE. It means human beings. You were cavemen just like the rest of us before the invention of a written language. What you have done with your Jewishness is to separate yourself from the rest of us. You have become elite. Humans end up hating and killing elitists. You think you're better than the rest of us, and you draw scorn, hostility, and death as a consequence. Simple as.

I don't like your sig. It is essentially hateful and separatist. You are not the kindhearted & honorable person that you pretend to be.

 

[Shusha]

AND P F Tinmore

Why don't work on trying to discuss solutions rather than arguing about old Armistice Lines? What do you think of my solution as a starting point for boundary negotiations?

 

[Shusha]

Your sig line: Anti-Zionism is the extremist belief that the Jewish people are not a people, have no history and no rights to a homeland.

Here's the basic flaw about the Jewish Situation: You are not the only people on the planet. The planet was not made exclusively for you. Use a dictionary and look up the word PEOPLE. It means human beings. You were cavemen just like the rest of us before the invention of a written language. What you have done with your Jewishness is to separate yourself from the rest of us. You have become elite. Humans end up hating and killing elitists. You think you're better than the rest of us, and you draw scorn, hostility, and death as a consequence. Simple as.

I don't like your sig. It is essentially hateful and separatist. You are not the kindhearted & honorable person that you pretend to be.

Wow. THANK YOU for that giant spoonful of anti-semitism.

Maybe you can look at my sig again and tell me where I say that Jews are the only people on the planet, that the planet is made exclusivey for us, that we are separate from the rest of you, that we are elite or that I think we are better than the rest of you?

What my sig actually says is that the Jewish people are a people. Do you deny that?

That the Jewish people have a history in the territory in question. Do you deny that?

That the Jewish people have rights to their ancestral homeland. Do you deny that?

The Arab Palestinian people are a people. Do you deny that?

The Arab Palestinian people have a history in the territory in question. Do you deny that?

The Arab Palestinian people have rights to their ancestral homeland. Do you deny that?



My sig is a RESPONSE to those who claim that the Jewish people don't count as a people, have no history in that territory and have no rights to an ancestral homeland or self-determination. My sig is an assertion that the Jewish people have the SAME rights to be treated with dignity and respect that all other peoples have.

So here are your choices:

ALL peoples have the SAME right to dignity and respect.

ALL peoples have the SAME right to dignity and respect except the Jewish people.

NO peoples have rights to dignity and respect.


I pick #1. How about you?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Everything inside Palestine's international borders to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's international borders to Israel.

Please define these existing international borders between Israel and Palestine.

The borders of Palestine and the borders of Israel were referenced in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

You should read them.

You know very well I am sufficiently versed in all the legal documents to discuss them intelligently. There is no need to be snide nor coy.

The agreement between Jordan and Israel states: "... no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims, and positions of either Party hereto in the peaceful settlement of the Palestine questions, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations" (Art. II.2), "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto." (Art. VI.9)

Make your case that anywhere in the agreement there is a differentiation between Palestine and Israel and an international boundary between them.

Good question. Where did they say Israel's borders were?

 

[The Pipe]

Your sig line: Anti-Zionism is the extremist belief that the Jewish people are not a people, have no history and no rights to a homeland.

Here's the basic flaw about the Jewish Situation: You are not the only people on the planet. The planet was not made exclusively for you. Use a dictionary and look up the word PEOPLE. It means human beings. You were cavemen just like the rest of us before the invention of a written language. What you have done with your Jewishness is to separate yourself from the rest of us. You have become elite. Humans end up hating and killing elitists. You think you're better than the rest of us, and you draw scorn, hostility, and death as a consequence. Simple as.

I don't like your sig. It is essentially hateful and separatist. You are not the kindhearted & honorable person that you pretend to be.

Wow. THANK YOU for that giant spoonful of anti-semitism.

Maybe you can look at my sig again and tell me where I say that Jews are the only people on the planet, that the planet is made exclusivey for us, that we are separate from the rest of you, that we are elite or that I think we are better than the rest of you?

What my sig actually says is that the Jewish people are a people. Do you deny that?

That the Jewish people have a history in the territory in question. Do you deny that?

That the Jewish people have rights to their ancestral homeland. Do you deny that?

My sig is a RESPONSE to those who claim that the Jewish people don't count as a people, have no history in that territory and have no rights to an ancestral homeland or self-determination. My sig is an assertion that the Jewish people have the SAME rights to be treated with dignity and respect that all other peoples have.

So here are your choices:

ALL peoples have the SAME right to dignity and respect.

ALL peoples have the SAME right to dignity and respect except the Jewish people.

NO peoples have rights to dignity and respect.


I pick #1. How about you?

Life on planet earth changes throughout the ages. My white race did not originate in the USA and I don't give a goddamn where the hell it did originate.

I don't care about where your "people" were born. My point was that your people are PEOPLE first before they are Jewish or Muslim or Chinese.

Either assimilate or migrate to where your separatist views are welcomed. I think you'll find fewer & fewer places on earth that will tolerate your separatist "people" or BS.

I do not pity your plight. I pity your mind.

 

[Shusha]

Sigh. Let me try framing this in another way. Are Palestinians elitist because they want their own country?

 

[Shusha]

I don't care about where your "people" were born. My point was that your people are PEOPLE first before they are Jewish or Muslim or Chinese.

Either assimilate or migrate to where your separatist views are welcomed. I think you'll find fewer & fewer places on earth that will tolerate your separatist "people" or BS.

Sure. So the Chinese are people first, before they are Chinese. Must the Chinese assimilate or migrate? Why or why not? Or are you applying your silly "rules" only to the Jewish people?

 

[Shusha]

Good question. Where did they say Israel's borders were?

Well, pertinent to this thread they assert that they do not prejudice any future settlement or negotiation. Which, of course, permits future settlement between the parties and negotiation. Which is the point of this thread. Care to address it? Care to be the one on Team Palestine who actually steps up to try to discuss solutions?

 

[The Pipe]

Sigh. Let me try framing this in another way. Are Palestinians elitist because they want their own country?

At what expense SIR?!!!!!!!!!

At what expense do we hold onto a shitty spit of land whilst generation after generation lives in strife & violence & terror?

Move the hell out for PEACE SAKE.

The Israelis are backed by the richest nations on earth.

Screw the whole "people" "our land" horseshit and spare your lives! It ain't worth it. The region is a horrible place to live. It belongs under water.

Are Palestinians elitist for wanting their own country?
Yes, it is purely an ego thing.
If there was no horrible, big bully aggression by Israel and their backers, then they could have their land.
Yes, they are elitist-egoists for being willing to put generation after generation through terror & violence just for a piece of land.
Save yourselves and thrive somewhere else.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come on!!!

Everything inside Palestine's international borders to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's international borders to Israel.

Please define these existing international borders between Israel and Palestine.

The borders of Palestine and the borders of Israel were referenced in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

You should read them.

You know very well I am sufficiently versed in all the legal documents to discuss them intelligently. There is no need to be snide nor coy.

The agreement between Jordan and Israel states: "... no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims, and positions of either Party hereto in the peaceful settlement of the Palestine questions, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations" (Art. II.2), "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto." (Art. VI.9)

Make your case that anywhere in the agreement there is a differentiation between Palestine and Israel and an international boundary between them.

Good question. Where did they say Israel's borders were?

(COMMENT)

You've seen the clauses. You know that Each Peace Treaty (Egypt - Jordan Respectively) has Articles covering the International Boundaries.

You also now that with the creation of the Peace Treaties, the Armistice Lines dissolve.

(QUESTION)

Where do you think the borders are??? Where???

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Where do you think the borders are??? Where???

I second this. P F Tinmore suggested there exist boundaries where it is easily understood which territory is Israel and which is Palestine. So just tell us, FTLOG.

 

[Shusha]

His original assertion on this thread was:

Everything inside Palestine's international borders to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's international borders to Israel.

I suspect what he means, but doesn't want to say, is that everything from river to sea is Palestine, and since Israel (cough cough) "has no international borders" it doesn't exist. Therefore, everything goes to Palestine.

The rest of his charade is deflection so he doesn't have to come out and actually say it. Because even he realizes it looks somewhat .... well, unjust ... to deny the Jewish people any consideration at all.

 

[Shusha]

So his answer to the OP is that the only way to end the occupation is the destruction of Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Are Palestinians elitist for wanting their own country?
Yes, it is purely an ego thing.

Ah. So you don't believe in any sort of nationalism. All peoples who attempt to assert their national desires are just elitists and separatists.

I suggest in future you frame it that way rather than only addressing the Jewish people. That way you will appear to be supporting your own fair and reasonable moral principles instead of looking like an anti-semite.

 

[The Pipe]

Are Palestinians elitist for wanting their own country?
Yes, it is purely an ego thing.

Ah. So you don't believe in any sort of nationalism. All peoples who attempt to assert their national desires are just elitists and separatists.

I suggest in future you frame it that way rather than only addressing the Jewish people. That way you will appear to be supporting your own fair and reasonable moral principles instead of looking like an anti-semite.

Shusha, present company excepted, I hate all of humanity, and so I don't care if I do come off as anti-semite. But yes, you hit the nail on the head: Nationalism makes me sick. And Palestine is a shining example of what it gets you. Israel, too. Both places are hideous zones.