Election Reform and the Spoiler Effect

[dblack]

Duly noted that you have nothing to add to the conversation.

LOL - conversation?? You're just here to whine about third parties, right?

Listen, watching Ds and Rs team up to squash the only decent election reform in the works is pretty depressing. I'm sure that gives you a raging statist hardon, but it doesn't make you right. You're propping up a corrupt system that is sinking the country.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL - conversation?? You're just here to whine about third parties, right?

Listen, watching Ds and Rs team up to squash the only decent election reform in the works is pretty depressing. I'm sure that gives you a raging statist hardon, but it doesn't make you right. You're propping up a corrupt system that is sinking the country.

Naw, guy, what's sinking the country is that we don't take this process seriously enough.

The Libertarians, the Greens, they are joke parties.

Propping them up with schemes like Ranked Choice Voting is silly. It's why voters are rejecting these schemes all over the country.

 

[dblack]

Naw, guy, what's sinking the country is that we don't take this process seriously enough.

The Libertarians, the Greens, they are joke parties.

Propping them up with schemes like Ranked Choice Voting is silly. It's why voters are rejecting these schemes all over the country.

Enjoy your President Trump.

 

[JoeB131]

Enjoy your President Trump.

Do you have nothing to add to the conversation?

Voters reject Ranked Choice voting as being a clusterfuck.

 

[dblack]

Do you have nothing to add to the conversation?

Do you? All you can do is whine about third parties. And blame voters because your party sucks.

Voters reject Ranked Choice voting as being a clusterfuck.

They rejected it because Democrats and Republicans told them to.

You don't want to change things - so, enjoy your President Trump. You deserve him.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you? All you can do is whine about third parties. And blame voters because your party sucks.

They rejected it because Democrats and Republicans told them to.

You don't want to change things - so, enjoy your President Trump. You deserve him.

Actually, the voters rejected it. In some cases, the parties were actually for it.

the only place foolish enough to pass it was DC.

 

[dblack]

Actually, the voters rejected it. In some cases, the parties were actually for it.

the only place foolish enough to pass it was DC.

When Prop 131 was first initiated, back in the spring, it was polling at 60-70% approval. That was before the D and R fearmongers went into overdrive. So stow the bullshit. And enjoy your two-party President. He loves you doncha know.

 

[JoeB131]

When Prop 131 was first initiated, back in the spring, it was polling at 60-70% approval. That was before the D and R fearmongers went into overdrive. So stow the bullshit. And enjoy your two-party President. He loves you doncha know.

You mean, they made an effective argument against it.

Actually, the rich proponents of Ranked Clusterfuck Voting outspent the opponents by 37-1 and still lost.

Ranked Choice Voting supporters concede in Prop. 131 race

The effort to overhaul Colorado’s election system trails by about 10 points.

www.cpr.org

The campaign was the most expensive of the 2024 election cycle in Colorado. Proponents, led by Thiry, a former Davita executive, and Ben Walton, a Walmart heir, altogether contributed more than $15 million to pass Prop. 131. The money allowed the campaign to blanket the state with TV and digital ads, mailers and text messages.

Opponents of Prop. 131 included elected Democrats like Bennet and the Colorado Democratic Party, but campaign fundraising was meager, bringing less than $400,000. Still, the campaign also sent a flurry of text messages to voters, including a plea from Massachusetts U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren to vote ‘no.’

The Colorado Democratic Party celebrated the initiative’s defeat, saying that the state’s elections are already “the best in the country.”

“Proposition 131 would have sacrificed the safety and security of our election system for the whims of special interests and big corporations whose pay-to-play tactics would have flooded the state with even more dark money,” said Shad Murib, Chair of the Colorado Democratic Party, in a statement.

 

[dblack]

You mean, they made an effective argument against it.

Nope. They used the same specious fear mongering you've been jerking off to in this thread. And the Republicans joined them, with different, though equally specious, fear mongering. Dems told everyone it's rich people trying to trick them, and Republicans told people it's libruls trying to trick them. Both are just worried their little duopoly will be threatened. Fuck them.

Opponents of Prop. 131 included elected Democrats like Bennet and the Colorado Democratic Party, but campaign fundraising was meager, bringing less than $400,000. Still, the campaign also sent a flurry of text messages to voters, including a plea from Massachusetts U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren to vote ‘no.’

They don't need funds. They already have plenty, and they have a lock on electoral politics. Their stranglehold on power is what we're trying to break out from under, and what jackboots drones like you are defending.

The Colorado Democratic Party celebrated the initiative’s defeat, saying that the state’s elections are already “the best in the country.”

LOL - celebrate. Let's hear it for crushing reform. Stay the course. The current system is working soooo well. Why change? All hail President Trump.

“Proposition 131 would have sacrificed the safety and security of our election system for the whims of special interests and big corporations whose pay-to-play tactics would have flooded the state with even more dark money,” said Shad Murib, Chair of the Colorado Democratic Party, in a statement.

Yep. That's a good example of the lies your side dishes out to protect their turf. Fuck them.

And fuck them for saddling us with another shitty President.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. They used the same specious fear mongering you've been jerking off to in this thread. And the Republicans joined them, with different, though equally specious, fear mongering. Dems told everyone it's rich people trying to trick them, and Republicans told people it's libruls trying to trick them. Both are just worried their little duopoly will be threatened. Fuck them.

What argument did they make that was specious?

The argument they made was that dark money could upend elections by backing fringe candidates who would normally be eliminated in a partisan primary. That actually seems like a good thing.

https://michaelbennet.com/prop131/

They don't need funds. They already have plenty, and they have a lock on electoral politics. Their stranglehold on power is what we're trying to break out from under, and what jackboots drones like you are defending.

Then come up with something better than a confusing system where you have to vote 8 times and not sure what you are voting for.

LOL - celebrate. Let's hear it for crushing reform. Stay the course. The current system is working soooo well. Why change? All hail President Trump.

There are a lot of changes I would be for. Getting rid of the Electoral College would be at the top of my list if you really wanted to make third parties viable.

Ranked Clusterfuck Voting is not the answer.

Yep. That's a good example of the lies your side dishes out to protect their turf. Fuck them.

And fuck them for saddling us with another shitty President.

This is what Americans wanted. I blame Biden for not standing down in 2022 when everyone thought he was too old then.

Now we have a guy who is even older at the start and is already showing signs of senile dementia.

 

[dblack]

What argument did they make that was specious?

The argument they made was that dark money could upend elections by backing fringe candidates who would normally be eliminated in a partisan primary. That actually seems like a good thing.

That's one, yeah. "Dark money" - they're echoing the right's "Deep state" hysteria. With no real explanation of how RCV supposedly enables this. But fear mongering doesn't require reason. Just shrieking and repetition.

Then come up with something better than a confusing system where you have to vote 8 times and not sure what you are voting for.

And that's another. Seriously? People are too stupid to understand ranking the candidates? Speak for yourself for chrissake.

There are a lot of changes I would be for. Getting rid of the Electoral College would be at the top of my list if you really wanted to make third parties viable.

Ranked Clusterfuck Voting is not the answer.

The Dems only honest opposition to RCV is that it undermines their privileged position - their control over deciding who we get to vote for. Again, fuck that. Fuck them. And fuck you for supporting their corruption of democracy.

This is what Americans wanted. I blame Biden for not standing down in 2022 when everyone thought he was too old then.

Now we have a guy who is even older at the start and is already showing signs of senile dementia.

People voted for Trump because they're fed up with Democrats and the two-party system leaves them nowhere else to turn. Which is you how you like it. Enjoy your President Trump.

 

[JoeB131]

That's one, yeah. "Dark money" - they're echoing the right's "Deep state" hysteria. With no real explanation of how RCV supposedly enables this. But fear mongering doesn't require reason. Just shrieking and repetition.

I thought they made it pretty clear. Instead of working within a primary, RCV allows Dark Money to keep fringe candidates afloat. IF you are a moderate Democrat, and you have to make the argument against the Fringe in the primary, and the Republican in the General, you can focus your message. But if you are having to face both of these guys, that's were the Dark Money comes into play.

We already saw how dark money propped up Jill Stein to undermine Harris.

And that's another. Seriously? People are too stupid to understand ranking the candidates? Speak for yourself for chrissake.

I don't have to. Voters in Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada and Oregon already did. They want no part of this.

Alaska and Nevada got rid of RCV that was already on the books.

The Dems only honest opposition to RCV is that it undermines their privileged position - their control over deciding who we get to vote for. Again, fuck that. Fuck them. And fuck you for supporting their corruption of democracy.

Um, no, they are only controlling who represents their party. That's why we have primaries.

I think the main reason why Harris never resonated was that she didn't have to go through the crucible of the primary process.

 

[dblack]

I thought they made it pretty clear. Instead of working within a primary, RCV allows Dark Money to keep fringe candidates afloat.

How does it do that? RCV makes no changes to campaign financing.

IF you are a moderate Democrat, and you have to make the argument against the Fringe in the primary, and the Republican in the General, you can focus your message. But if you are having to face both of these guys, that's were the Dark Money comes into play.

We already saw how dark money propped up Jill Stein to undermine Harris.

This just sounds like more of your whining about third parties.

Um, no, they are only controlling who represents their party. That's why we have primaries.

You want to make sure that only candidates approved by one of your shit parties are viable. That's what all your complaints boil down to.

 

[JoeB131]

How does it do that? RCV makes no changes to campaign financing.

No, it makes it easier for the rich assholes to bypass the primary process and put in fringe characters.

This just sounds like more of your whining about third parties.

You mean the third party candidate who was bankrolled by Russia?

Third Way

www.thirdway.org

You want to make sure that only candidates approved by one of your shit parties are viable. That's what all your complaints boil down to.

Except RCV hasn't helped one third party candidate win anything.

 

[dblack]

No, it makes it easier for the rich assholes to bypass the primary process and put in fringe characters.

LOL - in other words, access isn't controlled by your two shit parties. Like I said, that's all this is about for you. And I have no respect for that idiocy at all.

Your two shit parties have fucked us for long enough.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL - in other words, access isn't controlled by your two shit parties. Like I said, that's all this is about for you. And I have no respect for that idiocy at all.

Your two shit parties have fucked us for long enough.

I have accountability over the two parties (or at least the one I happen to be a member of.)

I don't have accountability over a guy like Kent Thiry, who spent 12 million dollars trying to get RCV passed.

Who is Kent Thiry, you might ask?

He's a guy who routinely cheated medicare and was indicted for it.

 

[dblack]

I have accountability over the two parties (or at least the one I happen to be a member of.)

Blame is the more appropriate word. Get the fuck out of the way and let the people elect who they want.

 

[JoeB131]

Blame is the more appropriate word. Get the fuck out of the way and let the people elect who they want.

Nobody is stopping you from electing the people you want.

 

[dblack]

Nobody is stopping you from electing the people you want.

The two party death spiral is. That's what we're talking about here. And you're fighting to defend it. You suck.

 

[JoeB131]

The two party death spiral is. That's what we're talking about here. And you're fighting to defend it. You suck.

Uh, guy, we've had the Two-parties for 180 years.

I don't think they are going anywhere.

Do you really want me to list the third parties that came and went since 1860?