Zone1 Early Christians believed that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist were transformed into the body and blood of Christ

[ding]

The Church should use a different title, that's what I'm saying.

What title do you think the Church should use?

 

[hadit]

What title do you think the Church should use?

I have no idea. I just don't like them using one that God uses for His flock.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

What title do you think the Church should use?

Catholic World Cult

 

[ding]

You just want to "insert God here" into everything when it isn't necessary. The people at the top are those who have endured more sacrifices than others. This is the way life works because average people won't make the sacrifices in life needed to get where people want to be. I have a daughter-in-law who prayed for the silliest things. One was that her child would get good grades and when she did, she said it was because of her prayers. It is that sort of thing that drives me crazy where humans think that some god is going to intercede in another person's life because they want him to or worse yet, in their own lives. It's like praying for a better-paying job when you haven't paid the price by sacrificing leisure time and studying instead at night school.

It is dangerous to "insert god here" because then you assert that someone ELSE sacrificed for you, like Jesus when you admit that we must sacrifice. How else can someone get ahead of others without sacrifice? You don't need some imaginary god or priest to tell you this.

No, I don't insert God into everything. Feel free to link to a post where you believe I have done that. You won't be finding any.

You seemed to miss my earlier point. Everyone is going to experience suffering. Everyone will have to make sacrifices. Not everyone will receive benefit from their sacrifices. Some will ***** and moan about it. Few will become closer to God because of it and many will distance themselves from God because of it. You seem to think sacrifices are limited to successful people. That just isn't true. If you have ever not gotten your way, that was a sacrifice. If you have ever been wronged, that was a sacrifice. If you have ever been treated unfairly, that was a sacrifice.

God isn't imaginary. God is the source of all reality.

 

[ding]

Catholic World Cult

You are a sour person. You are exactly the kind of person I described when I said many will distance themselves from God because of their suffering and what they perceived as "forced" sacrifices.

 

[ding]

I have no idea. I just don't like them using one that God uses for His flock.

Is that because you see no distinction between you and an ordained priest or minister?

 

[hadit]

Is that because you see no distinction between you and an ordained priest or minister?

No, an ordained minister or pastor has a specific title. God doesn't say we are all ministers while He does say we are all priests. My objection lies in us using a title to mean something other than what God meant it to mean.

 

[ding]

No, an ordained minister or pastor has a specific title. God doesn't say we are all ministers while He does say we are all priests. My objection lies in us using a title to mean something other than what God meant it to mean.

But you said there is no need for priests today, right? So you see no distinction between yourself an an ordained priest, right?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

No, I don't insert God into everything. Feel free to link to a post where you believe I have done that. You won't be finding any.

You seemed to miss my earlier point. Everyone is going to experience suffering. Everyone will have to make sacrifices. Not everyone will receive benefit from their sacrifices. Some will ***** and moan about it. Few will become closer to God because of it and many will distance themselves from God because of it. You seem to think sacrifices are limited to successful people. That just isn't true. If you have ever not gotten your way, that was a sacrifice. If you have ever been wronged, that was a sacrifice. If you have ever been treated unfairly, that was a sacrifice.

God isn't imaginary. God is the source of all reality.

Where do you get your notions about sacrifice?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You are a sour person. You are exactly the kind of person I described when I said many will distance themselves from God because of their suffering and what they perceived as "forced" sacrifices.

Guilt and shame tactic on stark display.

 

[irosie91]

It's true. Early Christians believed that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist were transformed into the body and blood of Christ.

The Real Presence is taught by St. Paul. “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:26-27).

The Real Presence was taught by the twelve apostles. “Let no one eat and drink of your Eucharist but those baptized in the name of the Lord; to this, too the saying of the Lord is applicable: ‘Do not give to dogs what is sacred” (Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, or Didache, 9:5).

The Real Presence was upheld by early Christians.

It was upheld by St. Ignatius of Antioch in the first century: “Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, circa 90 AD).

It was upheld by St. Justin Martyr in the second century: “This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God’s Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus” (St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, circa 150 AD).

It was upheld by St. Clement of Alexandria in the third century: “The one, the Watered Wine, nourishes in faith, while the other, the Spirit, leads us on to immortality. The union of both, however, – of the drink and of the Word, – is called the Eucharist, a praiseworthy and excellent gift. Those who partake of it in faith are sanctified in body and in soul. By the will of the Father, the divine mixture, man, is mystically united to the Spirit and to the Word” (St. Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of the Children, circa 202 AD).

It was upheld by St. Cyril of Jerusalem in the fourth century: “Since then He Himself has declared and said of the Bread, (This is My Body), who shall dare to doubt any longer? And since He has affirmed and said, (This is My Blood), who shall ever hesitate, saying, that it is not His blood?” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, circa 350 AD).

Early Church Fathers Upholding Transubstantiation in Their Own Words

Transubstantiation, wherein bread and wine change into the Body and Blood of Christ in the eucharist has been part of Catholicism since the very beginning..

www.magiscenter.com

oh, Dingbat (dear) ----why argue a ritual of faith?

 

[ding]

Where do you get your notions about sacrifice?

Life. Suffering and sacrifice are integral to life.

 

[ding]

Guilt and shame tactic on stark display.

More like an observation.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

More like an observation.

Nope. Your tactics are pure indoctrination tactics.

 

[irosie91]

More like an observation.

Entropy is a natural law----see thermodynamics. It is
AMORAL

 

[hadit]

But you said there is no need for priests today, right? So you see no distinction between yourself an an ordained priest, right?

There is no need for a human to forgive sins, and no one can compel Jesus to offer His body and blood for sacrifice again. Take those away and you basically have an ordained minister whose duty is to lead the congregation. I am not that.

I am in a royal priesthood because God has made me part of one. The Catholic title of priest is not the same as the one God has given me, and that's the problem. Why do you persist in trying "gotcha" questions when I've clearly laid out my position and what the Word says? If you want to continue down that road, you could answer my question, would you take communion from a priest who didn't say the right words that compel Jesus to offer His body and blood yet again?

 

[Ace Nova]

Nope. Your tactics are pure indoctrination tactics.

Indoctrination into what?

Who would want someone who is a subject of the algorithm he/she so freely chose by clicking on every conspiracy theory riddled link or ad?

Your brain is controlled by elements out of your control - your greed, distrust, envy and prejudice led you to this point. It would take wonders for anyone or anything to bring you back to any semblance of a life and sanity.

If something or anyone wants to "indoctrinate" you - you should be jumping head first at the bit and thanking them for the opportunity.

It's either that or find some sort of faith - and pray - pray for the world around you so that the world around you can pray for you.

 

[ding]

There is no need for a human to forgive sins, and no one can compel Jesus to offer His body and blood for sacrifice again. Take those away and you basically have an ordained minister whose duty is to lead the congregation. I am not that.

I am in a royal priesthood because God has made me part of one. The Catholic title of priest is not the same as the one God has given me, and that's the problem. Why do you persist in trying "gotcha" questions when I've clearly laid out my position and what the Word says? If you want to continue down that road, you could answer my question, would you take communion from a priest who didn't say the right words that compel Jesus to offer His body and blood yet again?

So, no need for priests?

 

[ding]

would you take communion from a priest who didn't say the right words that compel Jesus to offer His body and blood yet again?

Is the priest compelling Jesus? Is Jesus offering his body and blood yet again? Because I don't necessarily see it that way. I don't believe anyone can compel Jesus. And I don't believe he is making another sacrifice.

Would I take communion from a priest who didn't say the right words? What are the right words? I wouldn't take communion from a priest who did not believe the bread and wine, through consecration, are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[ding]

Nope. Your tactics are pure indoctrination tactics.

I don't want you to be a part of my faith.