Due Process??

[Lisa558]

I don’t agree. If you’re stopped by a cop for “speeding,” you aren’t called upon to prove you weren’t. It’s up to law enforcement and the prosecutor to prove you were.

Now, granted, that you is a criminal setting and immigration is not criminal. It’s civil and administrative. But still, Congress itself explicitly granted the right of a hearing to immigrants (legal or illegal). Therefore, the “right” to the hearing itself is a fairly minimal kind of due process. But the rules don’t care. The “accuser” is still the one with the burden of persuasion.

Would you or I quickly try to get our hands on our birth certificate? I expect so. But we wouldn’t have to.

What you’re asking is for ICE to prove a negative. It is up to the illegal to justify why he is legally present and entitled to remain. An illegal doesn’t go to a hearing and say “prove I don’t qualify for asylum.” The onus is on the foreigner who entered illegally.

 

[struth]

Due process is how you determine if someone is here illegally.

Otherwise we could just start scooping up anyone we want and send them anywhere.

Yep that’s how we determined your MS13 pal Garcia was here illegal

 

[BackAgain]

What you’re asking is for ICE to prove a negative. It is up to the illegal to justify why he is legally present and entitled to remain. An illegal doesn’t go to a hearing and say “prove I don’t qualify for asylum.” The onus is on the foreigner who entered illegally.

No. What Congress granted to even illegal aliens is a version of due process.

The old adage doesn’t change just because it’s inconvenient. If the accuser wishes to accuse, the accuser has the burden.

 

[Lisa558]

No. What Congress granted to even illegal aliens is a version of due process.

The old adage doesn’t change just because it’s inconvenient. If the accuser wishes to accuse, the accuser has the burden.

No. You’re acting as if swarms of foreigners can cross illegally, make up lies about asylum (most are bogus), and then go to a hearing and tell the judge to prove the doesn’t qualify. Remaining in this country is a PRIVILEGE, and it’s up to the foreigner to prove he’s eligible.

When I enter my country after an international trip, I am required to submit my passport as proof I am eligible. I don’t get to stick my hands in pocket and say “prove I’m not a citizen.”

Accuser/accused is a trial concept. Illegals aren’t entitled to trials.

 

[Rawley]

But still, Congress itself explicitly granted the right of a hearing to immigrants (legal or illegal).

?? cite?

 

[Rawley]

Trump sent hundreds of Venezuelans to the El Salvadorian gulag. How is that sending them "home"?

"Home" refused to take them.

 

[BackAgain]

No. You’re acting as if swarms of foreigners can cross illegally, make up lies about asylum (most are bogus), and then go to a hearing and tell the judge to prove the doesn’t qualify. Remaining in this country is a PRIVILEGE, and it’s up to the foreigner to prove he’s eligible.

When I enter my country after an international trip, I am required to submit my passport as proof I am eligible. I don’t get to stick my hands in pocket and say “prove I’m not a citizen.”

Accuser/accused is a trial concept. Illegals aren’t entitled to trials.

Well, I’ll leave it at this:

If you (as a U.S. citizen) were detained by ICE for the purpose of placing you in a “removal proceeding” before an Immigration “Judge,” would you have any legal duty to prove your own actual citizenship status? Or, would the Immigration Lawyers for the DOJ be required to establish their own claim before the Immigration “Judge?”

I can tell you from experience that the immigration Lawyers for the DOJ present their accusations. And the Court will ask the detainee to admit or deny each of those allegations. And anything not admitted is deemed denied. Therefore, if you deny it or simply decline to admit or deny, it is the government which is obligated to produce the evidence.

See, 8 CFR § 1240.8 - Burdens of proof in removal proceedings.

 

[Lisa558]

Well, I’ll leave it at this:

If you (as a U.S. citizen) were detained by ICE for the purpose of placing you in a “removal proceeding” before an Immigration “Judge,” would you have any legal duty to prove your own actual citizenship status? Or, would the Immigration Lawyers for the DOJ be required to establish their own claim before the Immigration “Judge?”

I can tell you from experience that the immigration Lawyers for the DOJ present their accusations. And the Court will ask the detainee to admit or deny each of those allegations. And anything not admitted is deemed denied. Therefore, if you deny it or simply decline to admit or deny, it is the government which is obligated to produce the evidence.

See, 8 CFR § 1240.8 - Burdens of proof in removal proceedings.

You’re telling me that when a foreigner is caught illegally crossing into the country, and says the phrase he’s been taught “I claim asylum,” and gets a hearing date….the judge has to prove he does NOT qualify for asylum? Nope. The illegal tells his story, and the judge decides if that meets the eligibility. The illegal does NOT get to stand there and say “prove I don’t qualify.”

Biden caused a major problem letting in - or actually bringing in - millions of illegal aliens. Now we are going to be stuck with all of them, if the Dems set on destroying America win.

We should start with all the hard-hit towns within 100 miles of the border. Get them out under “expedited deportation.”

 

[Hollie]

Trump sent hundreds of Venezuelans to the El Salvadorian gulag. How is that sending them "home"?

Trump sent no one to any gulag you pointless hack

 

[MisterBeale]

escorting them out of the country is not in any way, shape, or form worthy of due process.

You admit, right here, that you hate the founders and the philosophical bases on which our nation is founded, i.e. Enlightenment values and Natural Law.

No one is taking away their rights.

It is clear that you don't believe non-citizens have existing rights, regardless of government. But real Americans know, that god given rights come with being alive and human, it is known as natural law.

At the founding, slaves were denied their human rights, (mostly b/c the southern reps did not consider them fully human.) We have since amended the constitution, to recognize that they do. The court has ruled, that so do children.

Habeas corpus in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even the Alien and Sedition Acts, which were signed by President Adams, arguable next to Jefferson, the greatest influence in writing the Constitution, did not negate the right to habeas corpus in those Acts.

"They were endorsed by the Federalist Party of President John Adams as a response to a developing dispute with the French Republic and to related fears of domestic political subversion."

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

50 U.S. Code § 23 - Jurisdiction of United States courts and judges

www.law.cornell.edu

Your ignorance on this issue? Is frankly astounding. Are you even an American?

 

[80zephyr]

Considering they're incarcerated in El Salvador, they most definitely have lost rights.

You admit, right here, that you hate the founders and the philosophical bases on which our nation is founded, i.e. Enlightenment values and Natural Law.


It is clear that you don't believe non-citizens have existing rights, regardless of government. But real Americans know, that god given rights come with being alive and human, it is known as natural law.

At the founding, slaves were denied their human rights, (mostly b/c the southern reps did not consider them fully human.) We have since amended the constitution, to recognize that they do. The court has ruled, that so do children.

View attachment 1105971

Habeas corpus in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even the Alien and Sedition Acts, which were signed by President Adams, arguable next to Jefferson, the greatest influence in writing the Constitution, did not negate the right to habeas corpus in those Acts.

"They were endorsed by the Federalist Party of President John Adams as a response to a developing dispute with the French Republic and to related fears of domestic political subversion."

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 1105982

50 U.S. Code § 23 - Jurisdiction of United States courts and judges

www.law.cornell.edu

View attachment 1105985

Your ignorance on this issue? Is frankly astounding. Are you even an American?

Sending them home doesn't demand due process.

David J Harris Jr.​

sSrdneootpt:M2  a1l4f5aA4g05u3uAug8f7r100l99lu331 p17l4u4 9i ·

Barack Obama: 75% of illegals deported received NO Due Process
Bill Clinton: 90% of illegals deported received NO Due Process
All the sudden Democrats in 2025 want 100% of illegals to receive Due Process? WONDER WHY???
REMEMBER THIS/ Barack Obama “If you're a criminal, you'll be deported. If you plan to enter The US illegally, your chances of getting caught and sent back just went up. The actions I'm taking are not only lawful, they're the kinds of actions taken by every single Republican president and every single Democratic president for the past half century.”

 

[Marener]

Sending them home doesn't demand due process

Trump is sending people from Venezuela to a gulag in El Salvador.

If you don’t think that demands due process, you don’t really care about human rights anymore.

 

[MisterBeale]

Speed Over Fairness: Deportation Under the Obama Administration | ACLU

www.aclu.org

 

[80zephyr]

Trump is sending people from Venezuela to a gulag in El Salvador.

If you don’t think that demands due process, you don’t really care about human rights anymore.

Come on. Obama had actual US civilians KILLED in other countries. My bet is that when that happened, you didn't post about how upsetting it was.

 

[MisterBeale]

Sending them home doesn't demand due process.

David J Harris Jr.​

sSrdneootpt:M2  a1l4f5aA4g05u3uAug8f7r100l99lu331 p17l4u4 9i ·

Barack Obama: 75% of illegals deported received NO Due Process
Bill Clinton: 90% of illegals deported received NO Due Process
All the sudden Democrats in 2025 want 100% of illegals to receive Due Process? WONDER WHY???
REMEMBER THIS/ Barack Obama “If you're a criminal, you'll be deported. If you plan to enter The US illegally, your chances of getting caught and sent back just went up. The actions I'm taking are not only lawful, they're the kinds of actions taken by every single Republican president and every single Democratic president for the past half century.”

So. . . you don't care how the global technocrats take us to dystopia, nor do you care who does it, is that it?

 

[Nostra]

Trump is sending people from Venezuela to a gulag in El Salvador.

If you don’t think that demands due process, you don’t really care about human rights anymore.

Did Trump win the Presidency of El Salvadore too?

More WINNING!

 

[Nostra]

Come on. Obama had actual US civilians KILLED in other countries. My bet is that when that happened, you didn't post about how upsetting it was.

Good point. Barry claimed he had the power to unilaterally kill Americans abroad.