Drive by shooting in England just days after mass public shooting in England. 5 shooters on the scene of barbecue.

It seems the conservatives tried to lower deficit by cutting these programs. What I heard is they also cut financing of some police departments.

Actually, a firearm requires some training. A person who is not used to it can't rely on this in critical situations. It will just be ineffective.


The problem is their welfare state is gobbling up all of their money....there are very few places where they can scratch together savings after all the other mandatory programs are paid for, in particular, the NHS.........

But that is a topic for a different thread.
 
Not actually true......if you look at the stories of people who use guns to stop rapes, robberies, beating and murders, the majority of them have very little training, yet use the gun effectively. Guns are not complicated tools.....the people who tell you you need massive training to use one are the ones who don't want civilians using guns in the first place.....
Sure. That's why the military and the police only spend a couple of hours on weapons training, and then don't ever bother to do it again.
 
Sure. That's why the military and the police only spend a couple of hours on weapons training, and then don't ever bother to do it again.


Civilians aren't going to war......you doofus.

Cops qualify, maybe, once a year......mostly on the honor system.........soldiers qualify once a year.......

Civilians manage gun self defense quite easily....guns are not complicated....
 
Civilians aren't going to war......you doofus.

Cops qualify, maybe, once a year......mostly on the honor system.........soldiers qualify once a year.......

Civilians manage gun self defense quite easily....guns are not complicated....
You said using a gun effectively didn't need any training. Make up your mind idiot.
 
Oddball
Unlike you , I lived through the days of Jewish gangsters
Bugsy Seigel , Abe reles , Dutch Schultz, Meyer , purple gang , Arnold R
Half of murder inc
Wow I am old
 
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Not actually true......if you look at the stories of people who use guns to stop rapes, robberies, beating and murders, the majority of them have very little training, yet use the gun effectively. Guns are not complicated tools.....the people who tell you you need massive training to use one are the ones who don't want civilians using guns in the first place.....
Well, I just imagine a situation when you are waiting at a bus stop (or some other place) and two big guys are approaching you. And you realize that something goes wrong when 3-4 meters stay between you and them.

In this time period needed to cover this distance (several seconds, I think) you need to get out your pistol, unlock a safety, recharge it and level it on your target.

You should do that in a quick and solid manner knowing that the second chance may not come around. That requires some skill, I think.
 
Well, I just imagine a situation when you are waiting at a bus stop (or some other place) and two big guys are approaching you. And you realize that something goes wrong when 3-4 meters stay between you and them.

In this time period needed to cover this distance (several seconds, I think) you need to get out your pistol, unlock a safety, recharge it and level it on your target.

You should do that in a quick and solid manner knowing that the second chance may not come around. That requires some skill, I think.


What you just posted leads me to ask a few follow up questions...

1) do you own a gun.

2) have you ever owned a gun.

3) have you read any stories of actual self defense........

Your post shows that you may not have a complete understanding of the topic..........would be glad to help out as would other gun owners.....
 
Well, I just imagine a situation when you are waiting at a bus stop (or some other place) and two big guys are approaching you. And you realize that something goes wrong when 3-4 meters stay between you and them.

In this time period needed to cover this distance (several seconds, I think) you need to get out your pistol, unlock a safety, recharge it and level it on your target.

You should do that in a quick and solid manner knowing that the second chance may not come around. That requires some skill, I think.


Here......these two stories point out some of the things you addressed in your post.

The thing about a gun is it allows a smaller, or weaker, or outnumbered individual victim to have the power to confront and defeat stronger, more aggressive, armed or unarmed or more numerous attackers.

This is why I am such a supporter of people being able to own and carry guns for self defense.....they save lives....lives that would be destroyed by rape, beatings, stabbings, robberies and murders.........

Notice....the first story, two men vs. one woman, one armed with a bat......

The second story....a woman is violently attacked, even stabbed several times, and still manages to deploy her pistol to save her life...

I have more stories like this....you should look them up, finding and reading these stories would answer a lot of your questions about guns used for self defense.....

These women are not Navy Seals....the odds that they go to the range even weekly are very slim...yet they used their guns effectively to save themselves from stronger, more numerous, more aggressive and armed attackers...

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.

Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.

===============
 
What you just posted leads me to ask a few follow up questions...

1) do you own a gun.

2) have you ever owned a gun.

3) have you read any stories of actual self defense........

Your post shows that you may not have a complete understanding of the topic..........would be glad to help out as would other gun owners.....
No. No. Almost no.
 
No. No. Almost no.


Yeah.......if you have any questions, please ask. Knowledge about guns, and their owners go a long way to changing people's minds on gun ownership and self defense.........
 
I did......especially where they say they compared the actual to actual crimes, found the U.K. is actually more violent than the U.S.....then said the claim was actually still false....

It is that kind of honest journalism that let's us know all we need to know about you guys....
No, you cherry picked, like you always do. Make it up to promote GUNZZZ!
 
No, you cherry picked, like you always do. Make it up to promote GUNZZZ!


No.......politifact chose the apples to apples crimes to compare......

This is why you shitheads can't be trusted...you lie, you make up fake information...........

I pointed out exactly what they did.......you now have to try to ignore or hide what they did....
 
It seems the conservatives tried to lower deficit by cutting these programs. What I heard is they also cut financing of some police departments.

Actually, a firearm requires some training. A person who is not used to it can't rely on this in critical situations. It will just be ineffective.
Yes they did. Even the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time has now admitted that "Austerity" was a political, not an economic decision.

Yes owning a firearm requires a responsible attitude and a lot of training in safety proceedures. Unfortunately too many Americans think that owning a gun makes them a "Rambo", something the gun lobby feeds off to sell more guns.
 
Here......these two stories point out some of the things you addressed in your post.

The thing about a gun is it allows a smaller, or weaker, or outnumbered individual victim to have the power to confront and defeat stronger, more aggressive, armed or unarmed or more numerous attackers.

This is why I am such a supporter of people being able to own and carry guns for self defense.....they save lives....lives that would be destroyed by rape, beatings, stabbings, robberies and murders.........

Notice....the first story, two men vs. one woman, one armed with a bat......

The second story....a woman is violently attacked, even stabbed several times, and still manages to deploy her pistol to save her life...

I have more stories like this....you should look them up, finding and reading these stories would answer a lot of your questions about guns used for self defense.....

These women are not Navy Seals....the odds that they go to the range even weekly are very slim...yet they used their guns effectively to save themselves from stronger, more numerous, more aggressive and armed attackers...

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.

Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.

===============
That is good that some people were able to protect themselves, really.

But I want to widen our discussion. The right to bear arms is one side of the coin. The other side is a right on self defence. What scopes of this right should be and how to determine them?

Let's continue with a person standing on a bus stop. Two guys approached him and demand money, otherwise they will beat all guts out of him. The man pulls a pistol and fires several shots after these guys make a step toward him to grab the pistol. Shortly afterwards, these two guys die in the hospital. They are not armed, didn't cause any physical damage to him, there are no witnesses.

What the odds are the man will be cleared I the court?
 
They have to close things down because the welfare state in the U.K. is out of control....they can't control costs or expenditures and they are creating a population that wants to play X-box and do drugs and not support the country through actual work....

So...the lefties tax and spend and spend and spend.....and when they run out of money to pay for things they say....ooooh, those awful Tories.....
1629824233194.png
 
That is good that some people were able to protect themselves, really.

But I want to widen our discussion. The right to bear arms is one side of the coin. The other side is a right on self defence. What scopes of this right should be and how to determine them?

Let's continue with a person standing on a bus stop. Two guys approached him and demand money, otherwise they will beat all guts out of him. The man pulls a pistol and fires several shots after these guys make a step toward him to grab the pistol. Shortly afterwards, these two guys die in the hospital. They are not armed, didn't cause any physical damage to him, there are no witnesses.

What the odds are the man will be cleared I the court?


That depends on many variables......but if they have criminal records, the odds are better for the victim.

If he is a in a Stand your ground state, the odds are better for him.

For me, I would simply hand over the money, and not draw my pistol.....if they became physically violent, then that would change things.

Don't assume that not having a weapon they can't kill you are cripple you. They could beat you to the point you go into a coma, or die.....that happens a lot.....any physical attack against another human being can result in maiming them, crippling them or killing them...even a single punch....

Are you familiar with Tim Larkin....I have recently found his videos and he goes through this sort of thing and why you never engage in physical combat unless it is life or death.....

Here is a recent video....the criminal was not armed, likely put this guy in the hospital, could have killed him..



Here is another video......two different fights...one of them lethal....

 
That is good that some people were able to protect themselves, really.

But I want to widen our discussion. The right to bear arms is one side of the coin. The other side is a right on self defence. What scopes of this right should be and how to determine them?

Let's continue with a person standing on a bus stop. Two guys approached him and demand money, otherwise they will beat all guts out of him. The man pulls a pistol and fires several shots after these guys make a step toward him to grab the pistol. Shortly afterwards, these two guys die in the hospital. They are not armed, didn't cause any physical damage to him, there are no witnesses.

What the odds are the man will be cleared I the court?
Interesting scenerio since several Righties here have, because of the Jan 6th shooting of thug Babbitt, that it's NEVER ok to shoot an unarmed person.
 
Interesting scenerio since several Righties here have, because of the Jan 6th shooting of thug Babbitt, that it's NEVER ok to shoot an unarmed person.


Who said that?

Babbit was shot by a police officer, likely with no warning, or attempt to arrest or detain......

A civilian attacked at a bus stop by two violent criminals is not the same as a police officer shooting an unarmed woman without warning......

You are following the left wing guide to debate...lie, mix up stories and facts to confuse the issue.......
 

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