Drive by shooting in England just days after mass public shooting in England. 5 shooters on the scene of barbecue.

[2aguy]

Every mass shooting since Hungerford has been carried out by legal licensed gun owners. The fact that there have only been four such tragedies in 34 years is a testiment to the fact that gun control works, given we have over 600,000 registered gun owners in the UK.

You say you have 600,000 gun owners.....any one of them, if they chose to, could walk into a school, a mall, a church, a theater and murder people....they haven't...they have guns, they haven't used them for mass public shootings....showing that gun control isn't the reason you have had very few mass public shootings.......

 

[2aguy]

So why not punch in the guy's name before the individual seller sells him a gun? This isn't complicated.

And of course.....I offered you a system where a background check can be done without gun registration.....you didn't want that.

Your goal is gun registration, not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

 

[ESay]

True, the 14% "can" be attributed, but that doesn't mean it's the sole reason. The statistics show a decline in UK firearms offences since 2003, a small increase in 2018 and then a gradual decline until the pandemic struck.

Well, that is not only about firearm offences. Aggravated assault, robbery, knife attacks should also be considered. I saw a comparison between the US and UK some time ago and Britain exceeded in this, with aggravated assaults almost three times higher than in the US.

 

[2aguy]

Well, that is not only about firearm offences. Aggravated assault, robbery, knife attacks should also be considered. I saw a comparison between the US and UK some time ago and Britain exceeded in this, with aggravated assaults almost three times higher than in the US.

Yes....their criminals just don't do murder as often as our criminals do. And our criminals are essentially murdering other criminals, and the friends and family of criminals caught in the crossfire.

I keep pointing out that the destruction of the British family because of their welfare state is reaching critical mass...and with that destruction comes violence....and eventually gun violence. Why use a knife when you can shoot....especially when the guys knifing you come in larger numbers.......a gun makes that more of an even match, so guns will become more and more a part of criminal culture in Britain, just like it has in Sweden.

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes....everyone is locked down.....while the British police state they can't stop the increasing flood of illegal guns into the country...

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK

Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.

Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========


Tw

From your source: "He said said one factor was a reduction in police proactive work because of government budget cuts leading to big falls in officer numbers: “The ability of law enforcement to respond to this rise in the criminal use of firearms has been hampered by the large reduction in police officers and the resultant diminishing of proactive capability to keep these criminals on the back foot.”"

Yes, right-wing Conservative governments have unnecessarily cutback police resources so making their job more difficult. There were 5,549 handgun offences in 2003, this had fallen to a low of 2,061 by 2015. The rise began in 2016/17 but only went up to a peak of 2,868 before beginning to decline in 2019, before the pandemic.

The article copied/pasted again and again by you is basically a senior police officer using the media to pitch for more resources, nothing more. This is cherry picking information to further your fear agenda, basically more BS

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Couldn't have been guns, they're banned.

 

[2aguy]

From your source: "He said said one factor was a reduction in police proactive work because of government budget cuts leading to big falls in officer numbers: “The ability of law enforcement to respond to this rise in the criminal use of firearms has been hampered by the large reduction in police officers and the resultant diminishing of proactive capability to keep these criminals on the back foot.”"

Yes, right-wing Conservative governments have unnecessarily cutback police resources so making their job more difficult. There were 5,549 handgun offences in 2003, this had fallen to a low of 2,061 by 2015. The rise began in 2016/17 but only went up to a peak of 2,868 before beginning to decline in 2019, before the pandemic.

The article copied/pasted again and again by you is basically a senior police officer using the media to pitch for more resources, nothing more. This is cherry picking information to further your fear agenda, basically more BS

You guys always blame conservative governments....like the mother in a marriage who spends all the families money then blames the father when he says they don't have the money for necessities.....

You left wingers tax and spend your way into poverty, then blame the conservatives when they actually have to deal with the mess you made......if it wasn't for the U.S. taking care of almost everything else for you guys, you would have been financially ruined decades ago.....

 

[Vagabond63]

Well, that is not only about firearm offences. Aggravated assault, robbery, knife attacks should also be considered. I saw a comparison between the US and UK some time ago and Britain exceeded in this, with aggravated assaults almost three times higher than in the US.

Again, looking at the ONS figures, these types of offences have risen since 2003, but have shown a peak and start of a decline since 2019, before the pandemic. Also there's a huge difference in definition of these types of crime between the USA and the UK so a direct comparison is very difficult.

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes....their criminals just don't do murder as often as our criminals do. And our criminals are essentially murdering other criminals, and the friends and family of criminals caught in the crossfire.

I keep pointing out that the destruction of the British family because of their welfare state is reaching critical mass...and with that destruction comes violence....and eventually gun violence. Why use a knife when you can shoot....especially when the guys knifing you come in larger numbers.......a gun makes that more of an even match, so guns will become more and more a part of criminal culture in Britain, just like it has in Sweden.

 

[2aguy]

Again, looking at the ONS figures, these types of offences have risen since 2003, but have shown a peak and start of a decline since 2019, before the pandemic. Also there's a huge difference in definition of these types of crime between the USA and the UK so a direct comparison is very difficult.

No......politifact compared apples to apples crimes and stated the U.K. is more violent than the U.S......even as they tried to explain it away...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

 

[Vagabond63]

Couldn't have been guns, they're banned.

Nope.

Take a look at the guns you can legally buy in the UK

The UK banned handguns in 1997, but citizens are still able to own and shoot some shotguns and rifles with a license.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[2aguy]

Nope.

Take a look at the guns you can legally buy in the UK

The UK banned handguns in 1997, but citizens are still able to own and shoot some shotguns and rifles with a license.

www.businessinsider.com

Yes........the state allows only a very few shotguns and low caliber rifles for the peasants........meanwhile, handguns are very popular with criminals.....

 

[Vagabond63]

No......politifact compared apples to apples crimes and stated the U.K. is more violent than the U.S......even as they tried to explain it away...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

From your source:
Our ruling


The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States. Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison. We rate the claim False.

 

[2aguy]

From your source:
Our ruling


The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States. Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison. We rate the claim False.

Yes.....they show the actual results, then still rule it false....I showed what they actually found when they actually compared apples to apples crimes.......and then they lie and say the claim is false....

Again...what they found comparing the crimes that are the same between the U.S. and the U.K.


For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

With those numbers how do they make the claim that it is false?

By saying yes.....the U.K. is more violent than the U.S....but......not

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.


AGain.....what they found.....

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

 

[ESay]

Again, looking at the ONS figures, these types of offences have risen since 2003, but have shown a peak and start of a decline since 2019, before the pandemic. Also there's a huge difference in definition of these types of crime between the USA and the UK so a direct comparison is very difficult.

Well, okay. How have the things changed in the UK in the last 10 or 20 years in this regard? What are your personal feelings about that?

I read a couple of years ago about teenager gangs in some British cities that were getting out of control of the authorities. Is this a real problem or some exaggerated thing?

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes........the state allows only a very few shotguns and low caliber rifles for the peasants........meanwhile, handguns are very popular with criminals.....

More BS. If I wanted to own a shotgun and or rifle or even a UZI SMG, if I belonged to a shooting club and passed a background check, I could get a firearms licence and shoot to my heart's content. "Low calibre rifles" ROFL

Here's the hugely powerful Steyr HS 50 Cal. If you've got £5,000 and access to a shooting range big enough, you can have one in the UK.​

Screenshot/YouTube
I know of one member of our UK NRA who shoots a Barrett .50cal at Bisley.

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes.....they show the actual results, then still rule it false....I showed what they actually found when they actually compared apples to apples crimes.......and then they lie and say the claim is false....

Again...what they found comparing the crimes that are the same between the U.S. and the U.K.


For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

With those numbers how do they make the claim that it is false?

By saying yes.....the U.K. is more violent than the U.S....but......not

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.


AGain.....what they found.....

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Wow, are you gullible. Read the whole analysis, not just the bits you want to cherry pick.

 

[Vagabond63]

Well, okay. How have the things changed in the UK in the last 10 or 20 years in this regard? What are your personal feelings about that?

I read a couple of years ago about teenager gangs in some British cities that were getting out of control of the authorities. Is this a real problem or some exaggerated thing?

It's definitly a problem. Conservative government cuts to social and youth services have resulted in the closure of many inner city youth projects, which has resulted in an increase in dissaffected youths joining gangs. That said, it's still relatively safe to walk the streets at night without getting attacked, so long as you maintain a degree of situational wareness, (i.e. avoid dark alleys, etc. Common sense really) Some areas of our larger inner cities are dangerous places at night but we're a long long way away from needing to carry guns to defend ourselves.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think find none of the shooters are legal gin owners

?

 

[BULLDOG]

Because the ones doing the selling are straw buyers, who are breaking the law in the first place, and the criminals who steal guns have also broken the law....

They don't care about your background checks...

How do you know they are breaking the law? An individual seller has no obligation to know anything about the buyer.