Don't tell me election fraud doesn't exist

[Eric Arthur Blair]

So it comes down to a procedural issue and not fake ballots, switched votes or discarded ballots. Just a notary not correctly witnessing the ballot.

Most states do not even require a notary, just the voter signing it.

Yes. That's called election fraud.

 

[Kondor3]

...The OP is building a straw man. No one said there is no fraud. What matters is if there is statistically significant fraud....

Yep.

RumpBot claims are beginning to remind me of the Post-WWI German claims of being 'stabbed in the back'.

Hell... RumpBots even tried to pull off a Reichstag Fire on January 6th... but they're not too bright, and the screwed that up, too.

 

[rightwinger]

A notary in Mississippi did not properly notarize some mail in ballots.

That PROVES Trump won the election

 

[Chillicothe]

There is a plethora of ‘debunking’ reportage from Politifact, Snopes, the Fact Checker, FactCheck.Org, and others. Plus, several national or large city newspapers have had their own staff de-bunk the ‘Stop-the-Steal’ propaganda, and the multitude of jackass vote-count conspiracies.

I’m just gonna link to one fact checker, Reuters.
I picked them, out of many choices, because they are fairly succinct in their conclusion. Plus they themselves link us to a handful of de-bunkings that they’ve reported earlier (look for the ‘here’ parenthesis)

From Rueters, February 15th:

"Following President Joe Biden’s swearing in on Jan. 20, a Facebook post shared over 6,140 times has said: “Not one court has looked at the evidence and said that Biden legally won. Not one”. This is false: state and federal judges dismissed more than 50 lawsuits presented by then President Donald Trump and his allies challenging the election or its outcome.

Reuters Fact Check has debunked a series of similar false claims of election fraud. Some can be seen here , here , here , here , here .

“……instead of alleging “widespread fraud or election-changing conspiracy” the lawsuits pushed by Trump’s team and allies focused on smaller complaints, which were largely dismissed by judges due to a lack of evidence. ……”The Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay.”
................................................................................................

In truth though, nothing that any truth-seeking poster here can offer that is fact-based, rational, and credible is gonna make a whit's bit of difference to the true-believers. They are 'of-the-Cult', and their belief in 'the Steal' is absolute, a tenet of faith. It is true, because they believe it is true. End of story.

Except the perpetuation and promotion of 'the Steal' propaganda harms America. It chips away at the trust Americans have had, and must have in their free, fair, and open elections. Don Trump, and his enablers, are vandals. They are vandalizing America.

And that cannot end well.

IMHO

 

[BlindBoo]

Okay but can I tell you that no evidence of voter fraud exists to such an extent that it would overturn the Presidential race of 2020.

 

[toobfreak]

There is a plethora of ‘debunking’ reportage from Politifact, Snopes, ~ ~ and others. Plus, several national or large city newspapers have had their own staff de-bunk the ‘Stop-the-Steal’ propaganda

PURE RUBBISH. In fact, most of these sites are suspect for prejudice in themselves! Saying that something is false because some nebulous undefined third parties with suspicious motives in and of themselves say they "debunked" something by unseen and unknown means is not evidence nor proof of anything nor anything anyone can refute anymore than grasp a puff of smoke, therefore, only speciously used by parties simply wanting to vanquish a topic without any real refutation.

nothing that any truth-seeking poster here can offer that is fact-based, rational, and credible is gonna make a whit's bit of difference to the true-believers.

PURE RUBBISH. There hasn't been one Bidenista here that has been "truth-seeking," the entire "baseless conspiracy theory" dismissal of the election fraud began RIGHT AFTER ELECTION DAY when states were still actually counting! I've asked a hundred times for any fact based, credible and rational documentation which debunks the Trump evidence and THEY CAN'T OFFER ANY!

Indeed, of the cases brought by Trump parties against the election, due to the vagaries of the courts and legal system, VERY FEW OF THE COURT CASES actually directly relate to the many instances of fraud! Mostly because of the narrow definition that fraud permits. And there are many more cases of election malfeasance than court cases!

SO THE MATTER ISN'T THE COURTS, as that is all largely settled and going nowhere. The matter is the EVIDENCE. And much of the evidence was not only never involved in any court case, but 95% of the court cases were simply dismissed, rejected, not even taken up, evidence be damned.

In fact, reviewing a list of the court cases here, here are the court's ultimate action in nearly all of them. Tell me how many times you see the court ruling AGAINST THE EVIDENCE:

SO THE ONLY QUESTION HERE REMAINS THE SAME: there is far more evidence than was ever included in the court cases not that the evidence ever decided any of them! So the only question here which no Bidenista sycophant wants to discuss is the scientific, rational, factual arguments that all these things could be true in an election that was honestly conducted.

No honest person could say yes. And had Trump won under such impossible, lightning in a bottle circumstances, the far left democrats would be screaming bloody murder rioting in the streets!

 

[Chillicothe]

• Indeed, of the cases brought by Trump parties against the election, due to the vagaries of the courts and legal system, VERY FEW OF THE COURT CASES actually directly relate to the many instances of fraud

• THE ONLY QUESTION HERE:

................................................................................................................
Ah, poster 2BFreak, ......son, you are trying too hard.

First, it strikes me, and I'm fairly sure others too......but why did not Don Trump's Elite Strike Force (their description of themselves, not mine).....but Trump's Elite Force of lawyers never brought a complaint on "Fraud" to the courts?

According to the poster, it was widespread, so egregious, so universal, ...and yet that wasn't what they were writing up ---or orally stating in court------well, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
If they weren't willing to argue "fraud'......well, why are you?

And then poster "The ONLY Question" is: Why, with your armory of bulletproof evidence of fraud, well, what have you done with it?

Other than come onto an internet gossipboard.....anonymously.......and gripe about it?

Why not get your Yellow Pages out and find the nearest FBI office?
Why not get your Yellow Pages out and find the nearest State Election authority?

I don't intend to sound dismissive, but......but more and more I'm thinking there really ain't no "wolf" out there.....no matter how shrilly and frequently the little shepherd boy cries it.

But that's just me.

 

[Coyote]

ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff election for the Ward 1 alderman seat in Aberdeen.

In the sixty-four-page order, Judge Jeff Weill not only calls for a new election but also finds evidence of fraud and criminal activity, in how absentee ballots were handled, how votes were counted, and the actions by some at the polling place.

In his ruling, the judge said that sixty-six of eighty-four absentee ballots cast in the June runoff were not valid and should never have been counted. Nicholas Holliday was declared the winner by a 37 vote margin. Robert Devaull challenged the results in court.

Judge Weill found many irregularities with absentee ballots. He issued a bench warrant for notary Dallas Jones, who notarized absentee ballots. During a hearing, Jones admitted violating notary duties.

According to a summary by left-leaning Politifact:

The election do-over involves the election for alderman in Aberdeen, Miss., population 5,326. A judge found irregularities in the paperwork for 66 of the 84 absentee ballots cast, or 78%. The race had been decided by 37 votes, 177-140.

The judge found “significant evidence of voter fraud” on the part of two people who notarized paperwork for absentee ballot applications. He ordered one of them arrested.

It's worth noting that every character here involved here is a Democrat, as this was a 2020 Democratic Party runoff. That it's just Democrats makes such stories harder to ignore. This isn't President Trump yelling fraud, this is Democrat-on-Democrat malfeasance, with a judge calling the whole show off, ordering a do-over.

Mail-in ballot fraud in fact is very real. Politifact is implicitly dismissing this story as of no importance because it happened in a town of 5,300 in northeastern Mississippi, where, a Google map shows, the nearest big "city" is Tupelo (of Elvis Presley and Bobbie Gentry song fame), and the town sits approximately halfway to Memphis, Jackson, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Montgomery, each around 150 miles away, making it an equi-distant crossroads of sorts.

But just because the town was small doesn't mean such things don't matter. Fraud could only occur in a small town and not a big city? That's nonsense. Big city machines led by Democrats are utterly famous for their corruption.

The Heritage Foundation has a database of all the 239 known cases of elections trashed by mail-in voting fraud since 1997. It's occurred in places like Texas, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Florida, Colorado, Illinois, Missouri, California.... The most recent case documented was in Paterson, New Jersey, again, for a local race. Now there's this.

It's also occurred abroad. Jimmy Carter, who runs the voter integrity oriented Carter Center, has condemned the practice as inimical to free and fair elections as recently as 2005, recognizing just enough cases to make that conclusion. (Jimmy Carter has since done a U-Turn, but it seems that was about 2020 politics).

In Europe, it's a practice banned by most countries, and in places where it's permitted, it requires special requests, as well as sometimes trips to the voting registrar for a voting packet, while all require the showing of national I.D. These aren't junk-mail elections where ballots are mailed out indiscriminately from un-updated and unpurged voter registration lists as is done in California, where many voters ending up with multiple ballots (I know one in Pasadena, Calif., and he showed me the evidence).

Scholar John Lott came out with a major report on how and why the practice is generally banned in Europe based on its threat to free and fair elections.

Separately, the Swedish IDEA institute also came out with a report warning of mail-in voting election problems.

The evidence is massive. Yet everywhere in the press, all you read is that ballot fraud coming from mail-in voting is "very rare."

Mail-in ballot fraud -- in Mississippi, it's real

So much for the media's constant claims that mail-in vote fraud is rare. In Mississippi, a judge found it to be real. According to CBS-affiliated WCBI: ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff ele...

www.americanthinker.com

Okay, this was a small town in Mississippi and it wasn't in November, it was in June. So ******* what, does anyone want to claim there was never any election fraud in November or in January? I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. Was it enough to change the result? No one really knows, but around half of the people surveyed after the election think the outcome wasn't accurate. Meaning maybe Biden should have won but maybe he shouldn't have. Okay, water under the bridge, I don't think we're going to redo the presidential election or the Senate runoff in Ga. But we damn sure ought to be looking hard at what happened and fixing whatever needs to be fixed so future elections are more trustworthy. And if warranted and proven in court then people should go to jail if any laws were broken. If there's no deterrent then nothing will change.

Nobody sId it was completely non-existent. What's been said is it's vanishingly rare and in tiny amounts, which this case points up perfectly.

Next fauxrage please.

The OP is building a straw man. No one said there is no fraud. What matters is if there is statistically significant fraud.

2020 election was the most examined election ever - electoral officials, the DoJ for heaven's sakes...and multiple courts.

No fraud was found that would make any difference in outcome, and there was no (as in zero) evidence of the "wide spread fraud" the Trumpsters are claiming.

At point do you say enough is enough?

A lot of people on the USMB and elsewhere in the news are claiming there was no fraud. And a lot of people are bitching about any attempt to prove statistically significant fraud existed. Nothing to see here, move along.

Most of the court cases were thrown out on technicalities rather than any examination of the allegations. Even now the SCOTUS is hearing a case of election laws being illegally changed in Arizona. And there are other relevant cases that will be addressed in other states. As I said in the OP, was there enough fraud that might've changed the outcome? I don't think we really know the answer to that, hence I don't believe anyone who claims otherwise, i.e., the election wasn't tainted, really knows that.

'there was no (as in zero) evidence of the "wide spread fraud"' Actually there is, many of those court cases never looked at the evidence. Thee aare a number of cases in several states that allege fraud, and I call that wide spread.


Understand me: I ain't saying there was enough election fraud that caused the outcome to change and the wrong person got elected. I AM saying there could be, and almost half of the people surveyed after the election agree with me. Which is why we should be closely looking at what happened; if fraud did occur OR even if it APPEARED to occur, then why? What can be done in the future to ensure neither happens again. Or do we want to go down this road after every election?

I appreciate the thoughtful reply, but don't agree.

We have a long tradition of steps to take in which an election can be challenged or fraud alleged and look into. For how long have candidates agreed to abide by it and by the concept of a peaceful transfer of power? Trump broke that....

What's broken is not our electoral process, its the agreed upon principles underlying it that have been the standard for two centuries now.

Each party is allowed poll watchers to observe the process, in many cases the process itself is videotaped.

A candidate who looses has these legal options available to him.

He can ask for a recount - in fact in some states recounts are automatic when the margin is slimmer than a certain percentage.

He can ask for yet more recounts (though the campaign might then have to pay).

He can challenge it in court.

He can appeal it in court.

Trump had recourse to and availed himself of every one of those options. And he had more. He had his own DoJ/AG Barr, who tasked the DoJ with investigating every allegation of fraud.

And out of all this - no evidence of any sort of wide spread fraud.

The court cases - they didn't all hinge on just "technicalities". Several times, the judge specifically asked "are you alleging fraud" and the attorney had to back down and say "no" because it's a very serious offense to lie to a judge. A large number (if not all) of so called witness statements were invalided because the witness (in many cases poll watchers for the Trump campaign who didn't bother to attend the orientation meeting) didn't understand what they were seeing. Other statements were found to be outright fabrication or couldn't in any way be verified.

The few cases the Supreme Court is hearing don't even involve fraud - they involve arcane interpretations of state election laws - not fraudulent votes. They also involve a very small number of votes and the votes were genuine and in good faith.

So at what point do you say enough is enough? Now EVERY loser can contest beyond the established norms and declare fraud...and you can't fix it, because there is no fraud, and there is nothing that will satisfy the people who feel that the only way their candidate lost is due to fraud. They will just find one more reason to claim it, one more needed investigation. You would think that Barr investigating it would have been sufficient but when he found nothing...suddenly it wasn't.

Do you see the true scope of the problem? It's not a problem of our elections. It's a problem of our refusal to except the results when we lose...no matter what the facts are.

Edited to add: Did the Supreme Court actually hear ANY of the challenges? According to this article - it doesn't sound like it, which speaks volumes on the merits.

 

[cnm]

Understand me: I ain't saying there was enough election fraud that caused the outcome to change and the wrong person got elected. I AM saying there could be, and almost half of the people surveyed after the election agree with me. Which is why we should be closely looking at what happened; if fraud did occur OR even if it APPEARED to occur, then why? What can be done in the future to ensure neither happens again. Or do we want to go down this road after every election?

There's no way of stopping American suckers listening to hucksters. Barnum and Mencken knew their business.

 

[toobfreak]

Ah, poster 2BFreak, ......son, you are trying too hard.

Apparently you aren't trying hard enough seeing that you don't even have my name right!

Trump's Elite Force of lawyers never brought a complaint on "Fraud" to the courts?

Legal restrictions. I once had a judge angrily tell me I couldn't say I was paralyzed even though I barely had use of my legs! She based it on FEELING even though when traffic isn't moving, you say it is paralyzed, not unfeeling.

Why, with your armory of bulletproof evidence of fraud, well, what have you done with it?

I've brought it to the fore and asked all the accusers here saying there is no truth to it, no fact, to then SHOW US HOW THEY KNOW THAT? I've either only gotten static and diversion, or the cryptic and inaccurate excuse that because "the courts said so," which they didn't and never did, and if any court ever DID say the evidence didn't show what they said, it only pertained to that tiny bit of evidence before that particular court, not all of it!

I don't intend to sound dismissive, but......

No, just like an idiot. I mean, they told the POTUS he lacked standing and you want to know why I don't go to the FBI? So then, even if Biden DID steal the election and doesn't belong in the White House, YOU DON'T CARE?

I can't wait until Trump is back in office and doing the most heinous things and you are screaming about it. Wanna know what my answer will be?

 

[Lastamender]

ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff election for the Ward 1 alderman seat in Aberdeen.

In the sixty-four-page order, Judge Jeff Weill not only calls for a new election but also finds evidence of fraud and criminal activity, in how absentee ballots were handled, how votes were counted, and the actions by some at the polling place.

In his ruling, the judge said that sixty-six of eighty-four absentee ballots cast in the June runoff were not valid and should never have been counted. Nicholas Holliday was declared the winner by a 37 vote margin. Robert Devaull challenged the results in court.

Judge Weill found many irregularities with absentee ballots. He issued a bench warrant for notary Dallas Jones, who notarized absentee ballots. During a hearing, Jones admitted violating notary duties.

According to a summary by left-leaning Politifact:

The election do-over involves the election for alderman in Aberdeen, Miss., population 5,326. A judge found irregularities in the paperwork for 66 of the 84 absentee ballots cast, or 78%. The race had been decided by 37 votes, 177-140.

The judge found “significant evidence of voter fraud” on the part of two people who notarized paperwork for absentee ballot applications. He ordered one of them arrested.

It's worth noting that every character here involved here is a Democrat, as this was a 2020 Democratic Party runoff. That it's just Democrats makes such stories harder to ignore. This isn't President Trump yelling fraud, this is Democrat-on-Democrat malfeasance, with a judge calling the whole show off, ordering a do-over.

Mail-in ballot fraud in fact is very real. Politifact is implicitly dismissing this story as of no importance because it happened in a town of 5,300 in northeastern Mississippi, where, a Google map shows, the nearest big "city" is Tupelo (of Elvis Presley and Bobbie Gentry song fame), and the town sits approximately halfway to Memphis, Jackson, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Montgomery, each around 150 miles away, making it an equi-distant crossroads of sorts.

But just because the town was small doesn't mean such things don't matter. Fraud could only occur in a small town and not a big city? That's nonsense. Big city machines led by Democrats are utterly famous for their corruption.

The Heritage Foundation has a database of all the 239 known cases of elections trashed by mail-in voting fraud since 1997. It's occurred in places like Texas, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Florida, Colorado, Illinois, Missouri, California.... The most recent case documented was in Paterson, New Jersey, again, for a local race. Now there's this.

It's also occurred abroad. Jimmy Carter, who runs the voter integrity oriented Carter Center, has condemned the practice as inimical to free and fair elections as recently as 2005, recognizing just enough cases to make that conclusion. (Jimmy Carter has since done a U-Turn, but it seems that was about 2020 politics).

In Europe, it's a practice banned by most countries, and in places where it's permitted, it requires special requests, as well as sometimes trips to the voting registrar for a voting packet, while all require the showing of national I.D. These aren't junk-mail elections where ballots are mailed out indiscriminately from un-updated and unpurged voter registration lists as is done in California, where many voters ending up with multiple ballots (I know one in Pasadena, Calif., and he showed me the evidence).

Scholar John Lott came out with a major report on how and why the practice is generally banned in Europe based on its threat to free and fair elections.

Separately, the Swedish IDEA institute also came out with a report warning of mail-in voting election problems.

The evidence is massive. Yet everywhere in the press, all you read is that ballot fraud coming from mail-in voting is "very rare."

Mail-in ballot fraud -- in Mississippi, it's real

So much for the media's constant claims that mail-in vote fraud is rare. In Mississippi, a judge found it to be real. According to CBS-affiliated WCBI: ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff ele...

www.americanthinker.com

Okay, this was a small town in Mississippi and it wasn't in November, it was in June. So ******* what, does anyone want to claim there was never any election fraud in November or in January? I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. Was it enough to change the result? No one really knows, but around half of the people surveyed after the election think the outcome wasn't accurate. Meaning maybe Biden should have won but maybe he shouldn't have. Okay, water under the bridge, I don't think we're going to redo the presidential election or the Senate runoff in Ga. But we damn sure ought to be looking hard at what happened and fixing whatever needs to be fixed so future elections are more trustworthy. And if warranted and proven in court then people should go to jail if any laws were broken. If there's no deterrent then nothing will change.

Nobody sId it was completely non-existent. What's been said is it's vanishingly rare and in tiny amounts, which this case points up perfectly.

Next fauxrage please.

The OP is building a straw man. No one said there is no fraud. What matters is if there is statistically significant fraud.

2020 election was the most examined election ever - electoral officials, the DoJ for heaven's sakes...and multiple courts.

No fraud was found that would make any difference in outcome, and there was no (as in zero) evidence of the "wide spread fraud" the Trumpsters are claiming.

At point do you say enough is enough?

When the ballots are audited in every swing state. By independent firms. When the machines undergo a forensic audit, by an independent team of experts. That it has not been allowed is enough as an admission of guilt I can think of. A child could see the lie.

Tell the truth, admit the election was stolen.

 

[Coyote]

ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff election for the Ward 1 alderman seat in Aberdeen.

In the sixty-four-page order, Judge Jeff Weill not only calls for a new election but also finds evidence of fraud and criminal activity, in how absentee ballots were handled, how votes were counted, and the actions by some at the polling place.

In his ruling, the judge said that sixty-six of eighty-four absentee ballots cast in the June runoff were not valid and should never have been counted. Nicholas Holliday was declared the winner by a 37 vote margin. Robert Devaull challenged the results in court.

Judge Weill found many irregularities with absentee ballots. He issued a bench warrant for notary Dallas Jones, who notarized absentee ballots. During a hearing, Jones admitted violating notary duties.

According to a summary by left-leaning Politifact:

The election do-over involves the election for alderman in Aberdeen, Miss., population 5,326. A judge found irregularities in the paperwork for 66 of the 84 absentee ballots cast, or 78%. The race had been decided by 37 votes, 177-140.

The judge found “significant evidence of voter fraud” on the part of two people who notarized paperwork for absentee ballot applications. He ordered one of them arrested.

It's worth noting that every character here involved here is a Democrat, as this was a 2020 Democratic Party runoff. That it's just Democrats makes such stories harder to ignore. This isn't President Trump yelling fraud, this is Democrat-on-Democrat malfeasance, with a judge calling the whole show off, ordering a do-over.

Mail-in ballot fraud in fact is very real. Politifact is implicitly dismissing this story as of no importance because it happened in a town of 5,300 in northeastern Mississippi, where, a Google map shows, the nearest big "city" is Tupelo (of Elvis Presley and Bobbie Gentry song fame), and the town sits approximately halfway to Memphis, Jackson, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Montgomery, each around 150 miles away, making it an equi-distant crossroads of sorts.

But just because the town was small doesn't mean such things don't matter. Fraud could only occur in a small town and not a big city? That's nonsense. Big city machines led by Democrats are utterly famous for their corruption.

The Heritage Foundation has a database of all the 239 known cases of elections trashed by mail-in voting fraud since 1997. It's occurred in places like Texas, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Florida, Colorado, Illinois, Missouri, California.... The most recent case documented was in Paterson, New Jersey, again, for a local race. Now there's this.

It's also occurred abroad. Jimmy Carter, who runs the voter integrity oriented Carter Center, has condemned the practice as inimical to free and fair elections as recently as 2005, recognizing just enough cases to make that conclusion. (Jimmy Carter has since done a U-Turn, but it seems that was about 2020 politics).

In Europe, it's a practice banned by most countries, and in places where it's permitted, it requires special requests, as well as sometimes trips to the voting registrar for a voting packet, while all require the showing of national I.D. These aren't junk-mail elections where ballots are mailed out indiscriminately from un-updated and unpurged voter registration lists as is done in California, where many voters ending up with multiple ballots (I know one in Pasadena, Calif., and he showed me the evidence).

Scholar John Lott came out with a major report on how and why the practice is generally banned in Europe based on its threat to free and fair elections.

Separately, the Swedish IDEA institute also came out with a report warning of mail-in voting election problems.

The evidence is massive. Yet everywhere in the press, all you read is that ballot fraud coming from mail-in voting is "very rare."

Mail-in ballot fraud -- in Mississippi, it's real

So much for the media's constant claims that mail-in vote fraud is rare. In Mississippi, a judge found it to be real. According to CBS-affiliated WCBI: ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff ele...

www.americanthinker.com

Okay, this was a small town in Mississippi and it wasn't in November, it was in June. So ******* what, does anyone want to claim there was never any election fraud in November or in January? I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. Was it enough to change the result? No one really knows, but around half of the people surveyed after the election think the outcome wasn't accurate. Meaning maybe Biden should have won but maybe he shouldn't have. Okay, water under the bridge, I don't think we're going to redo the presidential election or the Senate runoff in Ga. But we damn sure ought to be looking hard at what happened and fixing whatever needs to be fixed so future elections are more trustworthy. And if warranted and proven in court then people should go to jail if any laws were broken. If there's no deterrent then nothing will change.

Nobody sId it was completely non-existent. What's been said is it's vanishingly rare and in tiny amounts, which this case points up perfectly.

Next fauxrage please.

The OP is building a straw man. No one said there is no fraud. What matters is if there is statistically significant fraud.

2020 election was the most examined election ever - electoral officials, the DoJ for heaven's sakes...and multiple courts.

No fraud was found that would make any difference in outcome, and there was no (as in zero) evidence of the "wide spread fraud" the Trumpsters are claiming.

At point do you say enough is enough?

When the ballots are audited in every swing state. By independent firms. When the machines undergo a forensic audit, by an independent team of experts. That it has not been allowed is enough as an admission of guilt I can think of. A child could see the lie.

Tell the truth, admit the election was stolen.

Did they do that in the 2016 election?

 

[toobfreak]

Actually there is, many of those court cases never looked at the evidence.

A candidate who looses has these legal options available to him.
He can ask for a recount -
He can ask for yet more recounts
He can challenge it in court.
He can appeal it in court.
Trump had recourse to and availed himself of every one of those options. And he had more.

BA-LOG-NA. Trump had a bag of poo poo. He was handed a bag of doggy doo more than the corruption of every other election PUT TOGETHER. 20-30 known instances or types PER STATE across multiple state lines then told he had to resolve it at the state or county level, which meant that no one court could see nor rule on more than a tiny fraction of the greater picture, or he had the recalcitrant, politicized SCOTUS whose every decision pretty much runs along PARTY LINES, run by a left leaning justice, who wanted NO PART in affecting a national election,

then told he had not years or months to develop the case (how long did OJ's case of ONE CHARGE go on for? Bill Cosby's?) but mere weeks and DAYS. So little time that in some cases, lawyers didn't even have time to proof read cases filed for errors and typos trying to meet the deadlines.

Only to have 90% of them thrown out on procedural and technical grounds UNRELATED TO THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE or charges brought.

So what we are left with is:

• an impossible situation where a man, an incompetent, now sits in the White House WHO COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLY WON under the circumstances claimed.
• an election which wrote the book on every way to cheat and apply the advise of the 2005 Carter Commission on what NOT to do in an election.
• a broken court system which normally takes forever with simple cases completely unequipped to deal with massive, nationwide fraud like this, ALREADY ADMITTED TO by numerous far left organizations as having worked it to ensure a Biden victory.
• and a legislative body unable and unwilling to fix our elections in the obvious, common sense ways to make them aboveboard by taking OUT the human element!

ELECTIONS MUST BE FIXED.

1. No advance, remote, mail-in balloting WITHOUT GOOD REASON, military or medical, to be scrupulously checked.
2. Voting otherwise is done on ELECTION DAY at the polls.
3. One must be registered, a citizen, and provide ID.
4. Votes and ballots must be received by close of election, even if they are not counted till later.
5. There must be a paper receipt to the voter AS WELL AS a paper receipt of the machine output for parity.
6. Districts, counties and states face severe fines for being late: all votes must be tabulated with 24 hours of close of polls.
7. People caught cheating or tampering with votes serve a minimum of 5 years in prison.

The fact that we can send a probe to Mars but CAN'T DO THIS is a joke. Of course it can be done, but politicians don't WANT to do it because it would cut off their ability to CHEAT.

 

[cnm]

I've brought it to the fore and asked all the accusers here saying there is no truth to it, no fact, to then SHOW US HOW THEY KNOW THAT?

Because the lawyers didn't present it in court, nor did the lawyers allege fraud.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff election for the Ward 1 alderman seat in Aberdeen.

In the sixty-four-page order, Judge Jeff Weill not only calls for a new election but also finds evidence of fraud and criminal activity, in how absentee ballots were handled, how votes were counted, and the actions by some at the polling place.

In his ruling, the judge said that sixty-six of eighty-four absentee ballots cast in the June runoff were not valid and should never have been counted. Nicholas Holliday was declared the winner by a 37 vote margin. Robert Devaull challenged the results in court.

Judge Weill found many irregularities with absentee ballots. He issued a bench warrant for notary Dallas Jones, who notarized absentee ballots. During a hearing, Jones admitted violating notary duties.

According to a summary by left-leaning Politifact:

The election do-over involves the election for alderman in Aberdeen, Miss., population 5,326. A judge found irregularities in the paperwork for 66 of the 84 absentee ballots cast, or 78%. The race had been decided by 37 votes, 177-140.

The judge found “significant evidence of voter fraud” on the part of two people who notarized paperwork for absentee ballot applications. He ordered one of them arrested.

It's worth noting that every character here involved here is a Democrat, as this was a 2020 Democratic Party runoff. That it's just Democrats makes such stories harder to ignore. This isn't President Trump yelling fraud, this is Democrat-on-Democrat malfeasance, with a judge calling the whole show off, ordering a do-over.

Mail-in ballot fraud in fact is very real. Politifact is implicitly dismissing this story as of no importance because it happened in a town of 5,300 in northeastern Mississippi, where, a Google map shows, the nearest big "city" is Tupelo (of Elvis Presley and Bobbie Gentry song fame), and the town sits approximately halfway to Memphis, Jackson, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Montgomery, each around 150 miles away, making it an equi-distant crossroads of sorts.

But just because the town was small doesn't mean such things don't matter. Fraud could only occur in a small town and not a big city? That's nonsense. Big city machines led by Democrats are utterly famous for their corruption.

The Heritage Foundation has a database of all the 239 known cases of elections trashed by mail-in voting fraud since 1997. It's occurred in places like Texas, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Florida, Colorado, Illinois, Missouri, California.... The most recent case documented was in Paterson, New Jersey, again, for a local race. Now there's this.

It's also occurred abroad. Jimmy Carter, who runs the voter integrity oriented Carter Center, has condemned the practice as inimical to free and fair elections as recently as 2005, recognizing just enough cases to make that conclusion. (Jimmy Carter has since done a U-Turn, but it seems that was about 2020 politics).

In Europe, it's a practice banned by most countries, and in places where it's permitted, it requires special requests, as well as sometimes trips to the voting registrar for a voting packet, while all require the showing of national I.D. These aren't junk-mail elections where ballots are mailed out indiscriminately from un-updated and unpurged voter registration lists as is done in California, where many voters ending up with multiple ballots (I know one in Pasadena, Calif., and he showed me the evidence).

Scholar John Lott came out with a major report on how and why the practice is generally banned in Europe based on its threat to free and fair elections.

Separately, the Swedish IDEA institute also came out with a report warning of mail-in voting election problems.

The evidence is massive. Yet everywhere in the press, all you read is that ballot fraud coming from mail-in voting is "very rare."

Mail-in ballot fraud -- in Mississippi, it's real

So much for the media's constant claims that mail-in vote fraud is rare. In Mississippi, a judge found it to be real. According to CBS-affiliated WCBI: ABERDEEN, MISS. (WCBI) – A judge is ordering a new runoff ele...

www.americanthinker.com

Okay, this was a small town in Mississippi and it wasn't in November, it was in June. So ******* what, does anyone want to claim there was never any election fraud in November or in January? I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. Was it enough to change the result? No one really knows, but around half of the people surveyed after the election think the outcome wasn't accurate. Meaning maybe Biden should have won but maybe he shouldn't have. Okay, water under the bridge, I don't think we're going to redo the presidential election or the Senate runoff in Ga. But we damn sure ought to be looking hard at what happened and fixing whatever needs to be fixed so future elections are more trustworthy. And if warranted and proven in court then people should go to jail if any laws were broken. If there's no deterrent then nothing will change.

The Republican Party new long before the Presidential Election that the democrats would cheat but they sat back and did nothing....I think one reason for that is knowing that the only way an election can be stolen is for it to be real close.....they thought Trump would be a shoo in.....unfortunately they were wrong.....the election was very close....and this is how the democrats were able to steal it.

Not even to mention how our cowardly supreme ct. refused to get involved....at the very least they should have ordered a thorough and massive investigation....not one of them worth a damn.

 

[toobfreak]

I've brought it to the fore and asked all the accusers here saying there is no truth to it, no fact, to then SHOW US HOW THEY KNOW THAT?

Because the lawyers didn't present it in court.

I don't know and DIDN'T ASK what lawyers presented in court! Courts are fucked up. I'm asking about the KNOWN, RECORDED, DOCUMENTED INSTANCES OF CORRUPTION, CHEATING AND MALFEASANCE.

I'm asking YOU. I have collected together all of the know cases of election irregularities, all documented by third parties, and am asking YOU how YOU know they are false, wrong, debunked or whatever? I'll put up just three of the 25 cases in Michigan alone and YOU TELL ME HOW THEY WERE ALL DEBUNKED. SPECIFICALLY. With documentation.

WHO debunked them.
The date.
The court record showing the proof.

 

[cnm]

I'm asking YOU. I have collected together all of the know cases of election irregularities, all documented by third parties, and am asking YOU how YOU know they are false, wrong, debunked or whatever?

I know they are either insignificant or false, wrong, debunked or whatever because either the cases have not been presented in court or the courts have laughed at them or the cases are deemed insignificant to the election's outcome. If you insist in that case the courts are corrupt or if you insist insignificant cases are significant, Barnum and Mencken stand justified in their assessment of Americans.

 

[cnm]

an impossible situation where a man, an incompetent, now sits in the White House WHO COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLY WON under the circumstances claimed.

I don't suppose you realise bald assertions of impossibility fail when there is any possibility at all, nor that the circumstances claimed might not have been the circumstances that prevailed. No worries, I realise you are not interested in rational discussion of reality.

 

[task0778]

How many of the election fraud cases were dismissed on grounds of jurisdiction or standing, or some other reason other than the merits of the cases? How many cases were conducted where the evidence was heard? And how many still have yet to be decided? The SCOTUS declined to hear some of these cases, but never said why. They didn't say there was insufficient evidence. In a dissent to the decision to not hear the Pennsylvania case, Associate Justice Clarence Thomas argued the time to settle those kinds of disputes is now.

The "decision to rewrite the rules seems to have affected too few ballots to change the outcome of any federal election," Thomas wrote. "But that may not be the case in the future."

In this country if allegations are made against somebody but the case is not heard, that does not mean the person was innocent of any wrong-doing. Same deal with an election, most of the cases were dismissed for reasons other than lack of sufficient evidence. Which does not translate to mean the election was fair and honest. Moreover, with so many people believing the election was tainted, I think it behooves us to validate the process rather than try to silence the doubters. So many people don't want to do that, and I think that is worrisome.

 

[toobfreak]

I'm asking YOU. I have collected together all of the know cases of election irregularities, all documented by third parties, and am asking YOU how YOU know they are false, wrong, debunked or whatever?

I know they are either insignificant or false, wrong, debunked or whatever because either the cases have not been presented in court or the courts have laughed at them

So, real, bottom line: YOU DON'T KNOW. I could present facts here until the cows come home and you'll have NO ANSWER how all these myriad things could incredibly happen in the election, nor will you even try. Your only answer is that SOMEONE ELSE didn't think so, and I'll take their word.

So the next time the courts wrongly convict an innocent man to life in prison, YOU'LL KNOW he's guilty.

When the court found no evidence of collusion between Russia and Trump, you'll KNOW they must be right.

When Trey Gowdy found multiple instances of criminality in Hillary's destruction of government evidence, you'll KNOW she's a crook.

When the government says that it had nothing to do with 9/11, you'll KNOW they are clean!

And when the CIA swears they didn't kill Malcolm X, you'll be sure of that fact!