Don't be on the wrong side of history

[Chris]

Yeah...It's much easier to piss, whine, moan, *****, and kvetch than it is to do anything about improving your life with your own actions.

BTW....You've still failed to point out where I lied.

Go back and read your post.

And my life is excellent by the way. I own a home, have a beautiful GF, am in good health, and make lots of money in a job I love.

No, you point out where I lied and provide proof.

And if your life is so great, why do spend a couple of hours a night here, whining-n-crying about how much everything in America sucks, huh??

Because that is what is great about America, Dude.

 

[DiveCon]

Who is this 'they' you speak of? I thought it went "We" The People?

-Joe

"they" being our congresscritters

"Then by (insert your Deity here) we take it back."​

-Kevin Costner, as 'Robin Hood'​

ok, that got a chuckle

 

[DiveCon]

Go back and read your post.

And my life is excellent by the way. I own a home, have a beautiful GF, am in good health, and make lots of money in a job I love.

No, you point out where I lied and provide proof.

And if your life is so great, why do spend a couple of hours a night here, whining-n-crying about how much everything in America sucks, huh??

Because that is what is great about America, Dude.

when are you going to point out the lie you claim he said

 

[Oddball]

Being a spoiled rotten little child, for whom nothing is ever good enough, is what makes America great.

Wooooah Nellie!!

 

[Oddball]

when are you going to point out the lie you claim he said

Well, asshelmet, we're waiting.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If what the rest of the world is doing is so great, and what America is doing is so wrong, get the **** out...You should have plenty of options.

No, I would rather stay here and help by opposing people like you.

your not opposing, your Whinning like like Dude said, a little sniveling *****....

 

[Arawyn]

The bankrupt Medicare/Medicaid and nearly bankrupt Social Security are being touted as evidence of success??

Desperation really must be setting in!

Social Security Rocks!

It runs at an efficiency of less than 1% FICA taxes collected for all overhead, in addition to handling all of the paperwork for SSI. It is a dedicated tax for a dedicated program. It is one of the few taxes we pay that we know the destination of. It is part of the 5% of the federal government We, The People of the United States should keep when all this is over.

-Joe

Shhh....

Taking care of the old and the sick is against Republican core values.

Yep, it is my turn today to push the old people in wheelchairs off the cliff.

 

[Navy1960]

Published: June 2, 2009
PARIS — The unemployment rate in the European Union pushed higher in April, indicating that nascent signs of economic recovery had yet to be felt in the labor market.

The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for the 16 countries that use the euro currency rose to 9.2 percent in April, the highest rate since September 1999, from 8.9 percent in March, the Eurostat agency, the bloc’s statistics office, said Tuesday. In April 2008, the unemployment rate was 7.3 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...euro.html?_r=1

U.S. unemployment rate hits 9.5%, a 26-year high
In June, 467,000 jobs were lost; analysts had predicted 350,000. Despite positive signs for the economy in recent weeks, the report is evidence that the jobs market remains troubled.
By Don Lee
9:09 AM PDT, July 2, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- The nation's unemployment rate edged up to a 26-year high of 9.5% in June as employers slashed nearly half a million jobs over the month across a wide spectrum of industries, the Labor Department reported today.

U.S. unemployment rate hits 9.5%, a 26-year high - Los Angeles Times

Chris , you do understand the point made I assume? and that is socialized medicine does not have a positive impact on the economies of those nations and in fact their unemployment is as high as ours and in some cases such as Spain twice has high. So to make a statement that Govt. healthcare has a postive impact on the economy doesn't hold up to data. In fact when you look at the spending as a percent of GDP for those nations you will also see an every increasing tax burden on those nations that in some cases inflates unemployment even more. In some EU nations they spend clost on healthcare as a percent of GDP that we do on defense. While I'm sure that most people that support a Govt. mandated healthcare system are also under the impression that we as a nation should rid ourselves of all weapons and hold hands with the rest of the world and thereby have money to spend on healthcare, that thinking always indicates a clear lack of understading of constitution of the very nation in which they live.

 

[sealybobo]

Go back and read your post.

And my life is excellent by the way. I own a home, have a beautiful GF, am in good health, and make lots of money in a job I love.

No, you point out where I lied and provide proof.

And if your life is so great, why do spend a couple of hours a night here, whining-n-crying about how much everything in America sucks, huh??

Because that is what is great about America, Dude.

Notice how their arguments have gotten really vague and lame after Obama came on tv and gave the facts? Yesterday they were saying all kinds of lies and today they have fallen back to their bullshit arguments of, "you're just whiners who want handouts".

These guys are sooo scared that their healthcare is going to get worse because everyone is going to be covered. And they think their costs are going to go up.

They don't realize that is impossible. We are gettin ripped off right now.

 

[sealybobo]

Published: June 2, 2009
PARIS — The unemployment rate in the European Union pushed higher in April, indicating that nascent signs of economic recovery had yet to be felt in the labor market.

The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for the 16 countries that use the euro currency rose to 9.2 percent in April, the highest rate since September 1999, from 8.9 percent in March, the Eurostat agency, the bloc’s statistics office, said Tuesday. In April 2008, the unemployment rate was 7.3 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...euro.html?_r=1

U.S. unemployment rate hits 9.5%, a 26-year high
In June, 467,000 jobs were lost; analysts had predicted 350,000. Despite positive signs for the economy in recent weeks, the report is evidence that the jobs market remains troubled.
By Don Lee
9:09 AM PDT, July 2, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- The nation's unemployment rate edged up to a 26-year high of 9.5% in June as employers slashed nearly half a million jobs over the month across a wide spectrum of industries, the Labor Department reported today.

U.S. unemployment rate hits 9.5%, a 26-year high - Los Angeles Times

Chris , you do understand the point made I assume? and that is socialized medicine does not have a positive impact on the economies of those nations and in fact their unemployment is as high as ours and in some cases such as Spain twice has high. So to make a statement that Govt. healthcare has a postive impact on the economy doesn't hold up to data. In fact when you look at the spending as a percent of GDP for those nations you will also see an every increasing tax burden on those nations that in some cases inflates unemployment even more. In some EU nations they spend clost on healthcare as a percent of GDP that we do on defense. While I'm sure that most people that support a Govt. mandated healthcare system are also under the impression that we as a nation should rid ourselves of all weapons and hold hands with the rest of the world and thereby have money to spend on healthcare, that thinking always indicates a clear lack of understading of constitution of the very nation in which they live.

We can either argue back and forth about why we can't or we can start talking about the MUSTS and go from there.

Getting costs down. A must.

Getting rid of pre existing conditions.

Not allowing the insurance providers to come up with new ways to jack up their prices

Covering everyone




Like the Auto company employees just went from $35 to $15 hr, the insurance company CEO's should start cutting their own salaries and lowering our costs. If they were smart, like the oil companies, they wouldn't push us too far.

 

[Arawyn]

No, you point out where I lied and provide proof.

And if your life is so great, why do spend a couple of hours a night here, whining-n-crying about how much everything in America sucks, huh??

Because that is what is great about America, Dude.

Notice how their arguments have gotten really vague and lame after Obama came on tv and gave the facts? Yesterday they were saying all kinds of lies and today they have fallen back to their bullshit arguments of, "you're just whiners who want handouts".

These guys are sooo scared that their healthcare is going to get worse because everyone is going to be covered. And they think their costs are going to go up.

They don't realize that is impossible. We are gettin ripped off right now.

I see reading comphrension is not your strong suit.

 

[Navy1960]

Do you know, I watched Obama last night and he said nothing that would have changed my mind as to the merits of this issue. In fact all he said was the same thing he has been saying, and has been proven incorrect. "If you like your healthcare you can keep it", "healthcare costs can be brought down with giving healthcare to everyone", et al, all of which has been proven wrong and continues to be proven wrong. I often think that when people listen to President Obama they sometimes fail to question what he say's and that a big mistake. A. cutting costs I agree with B. getting rid of pre-existing conditions I sort of agree with to a point. , let me explain. If you allow that everyone is the same regardless of condition then you havea system whereby a small percentage are using more of the assests of the system than others. So there must be an allowence and incentive for those that are healthy be it lower premiums or lower costs. I don't think anyone should be outright denied healthcare coverage for pre-existing conditions, however, I do not think it's fair or financially viable to force companies to cover everyone equally when it comes to premiums. C. Insurance companies are subject to regulations, however "allowing or not allowing" an insurance company to operate a business in a profitable manner because you or the president has an aversion to the profit motive in healthcare is illegal and I would not support this. D. I think I have made it clear on the last issue, that while it's noble to cover as many people as you can, to cover everyone takes away an individuals "right" to make that choice. I will NEVER support a Govt. mandated insurance program for every citizen. In fact sealy I'm so stern on this last issue, if a bill comes out of congress with this sort of mandate, myself and about 20 others here in Arizona intend to go into Federal court and file an injunction to stop it until the legal merits can be heard in Federal court.

 

[sealybobo]

Because that is what is great about America, Dude.

Notice how their arguments have gotten really vague and lame after Obama came on tv and gave the facts? Yesterday they were saying all kinds of lies and today they have fallen back to their bullshit arguments of, "you're just whiners who want handouts".

These guys are sooo scared that their healthcare is going to get worse because everyone is going to be covered. And they think their costs are going to go up.

They don't realize that is impossible. We are gettin ripped off right now.

I see reading comphrension is not your strong suit.

I just see you guys are ganging up on my boy Chris.

One question. Do you guys all meet each morning and discuss what position you will all take? Because you guys all seem to be right on message everyday.

Whether its:

You're just looking for a handout or
Socialism or
obama works for the man too or
who's responsible for you or
Real Americans.

It's like you all get an email each day telling you exactly what to say.

 

[sealybobo]

Do you know, I watched Obama last night and he said nothing that would have changed my mind as to the merits of this issue. In fact all he said was the same thing he has been saying, and has been proven incorrect. "If you like your healthcare you can keep it", "healthcare costs can be brought down with giving healthcare to everyone", et al, all of which has been proven wrong and continues to be proven wrong. I often think that when people listen to President Obama they sometimes fail to question what he say's and that a big mistake. A. cutting costs I agree with B. getting rid of pre-existing conditions I sort of agree with to a point. , let me explain. If you allow that everyone is the same regardless of condition then you havea system whereby a small percentage are using more of the assests of the system than others. So there must be an allowence and incentive for those that are healthy be it lower premiums or lower costs. I don't think anyone should be outright denied healthcare coverage for pre-existing conditions, however, I do not think it's fair or financially viable to force companies to cover everyone equally when it comes to premiums. C. Insurance companies are subject to regulations, however "allowing or not allowing" an insurance company to operate a business in a profitable manner because you or the president has an aversion to the profit motive in healthcare is illegal and I would not support this. D. I think I have made it clear on the last issue, that while it's noble to cover as many people as you can, to cover everyone takes away an individuals "right" to make that choice. I will NEVER support a Govt. mandated insurance program for every citizen. In fact sealy I'm so stern on this last issue, if a bill comes out of congress with this sort of mandate, myself and about 20 others here in Arizona intend to go into Federal court and file an injunction to stop it until the legal merits can be heard in Federal court.

Under normal circumstances, no, you could not get more for less. But in this case, we can, and we will.

Are we or are we not paying more than any other country (per citizen) for healthcare and are we getting less? Prove it. Links please.

 

[Meister]

Published: June 2, 2009
PARIS — The unemployment rate in the European Union pushed higher in April, indicating that nascent signs of economic recovery had yet to be felt in the labor market.

The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for the 16 countries that use the euro currency rose to 9.2 percent in April, the highest rate since September 1999, from 8.9 percent in March, the Eurostat agency, the bloc’s statistics office, said Tuesday. In April 2008, the unemployment rate was 7.3 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...euro.html?_r=1

U.S. unemployment rate hits 9.5%, a 26-year high
In June, 467,000 jobs were lost; analysts had predicted 350,000. Despite positive signs for the economy in recent weeks, the report is evidence that the jobs market remains troubled.
By Don Lee
9:09 AM PDT, July 2, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- The nation's unemployment rate edged up to a 26-year high of 9.5% in June as employers slashed nearly half a million jobs over the month across a wide spectrum of industries, the Labor Department reported today.

U.S. unemployment rate hits 9.5%, a 26-year high - Los Angeles Times

Chris , you do understand the point made I assume? and that is socialized medicine does not have a positive impact on the economies of those nations and in fact their unemployment is as high as ours and in some cases such as Spain twice has high. So to make a statement that Govt. healthcare has a postive impact on the economy doesn't hold up to data. In fact when you look at the spending as a percent of GDP for those nations you will also see an every increasing tax burden on those nations that in some cases inflates unemployment even more. In some EU nations they spend clost on healthcare as a percent of GDP that we do on defense. While I'm sure that most people that support a Govt. mandated healthcare system are also under the impression that we as a nation should rid ourselves of all weapons and hold hands with the rest of the world and thereby have money to spend on healthcare, that thinking always indicates a clear lack of understading of constitution of the very nation in which they live.

We can either argue back and forth about why we can't or we can start talking about the MUSTS and go from there.

Getting costs down. A must.

Getting rid of pre existing conditions.

Not allowing the insurance providers to come up with new ways to jack up their prices

Covering everyone



Like the Auto company employees just went from $35 to $15 hr, the insurance company CEO's should start cutting their own salaries and lowering our costs. If they were smart, like the oil companies, they wouldn't push us too far.

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

 

[Oddball]

One question. Do you guys all meet each morning and discuss what position you will all take? Because you guys all seem to be right on message everyday.

....

It's like you all get an email each day telling you exactly what to say.

Mr. Pot, meet Miss Kettle!!

 

[DiveCon]

One question. Do you guys all meet each morning and discuss what position you will all take? Because you guys all seem to be right on message everyday.

....

It's like you all get an email each day telling you exactly what to say.

Mr. Pot, meet Miss Kettle!!

ironic, isn't it?

 

[Meister]

One question. Do you guys all meet each morning and discuss what position you will all take? Because you guys all seem to be right on message everyday.

....

It's like you all get an email each day telling you exactly what to say.

Mr. Pot, meet Miss Kettle!!

ironic, isn't it?

lol, very ironic

 

[AVG-JOE]

Chris , you do understand the point made I assume? and that is socialized medicine does not have a positive impact on the economies of those nations and in fact their unemployment is as high as ours and in some cases such as Spain twice has high. So to make a statement that Govt. healthcare has a postive impact on the economy doesn't hold up to data. In fact when you look at the spending as a percent of GDP for those nations you will also see an every increasing tax burden on those nations that in some cases inflates unemployment even more. In some EU nations they spend clost on healthcare as a percent of GDP that we do on defense. While I'm sure that most people that support a Govt. mandated healthcare system are also under the impression that we as a nation should rid ourselves of all weapons and hold hands with the rest of the world and thereby have money to spend on healthcare, that thinking always indicates a clear lack of understading of constitution of the very nation in which they live.

We can either argue back and forth about why we can't or we can start talking about the MUSTS and go from there.

Getting costs down. A must.

Getting rid of pre existing conditions.

Not allowing the insurance providers to come up with new ways to jack up their prices

Covering everyone



Like the Auto company employees just went from $35 to $15 hr, the insurance company CEO's should start cutting their own salaries and lowering our costs. If they were smart, like the oil companies, they wouldn't push us too far.

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

The Private Insurance Bureaucracy has no interest in insuring older Americans - they're the ones making all the claims.

The Private Insurance Bureaucracy has no interest in covering pre-existing conditions, they're not profitable.

The only way to make it work, be it managed via a public bureaucracy or private bureaucracies is for We, The People to insist that the health-care pool of funds cover everyone who is willing to buy into the pool from cradle to grave, because cradle to 65 is when you put money into the pool and 65 to grave is when you claim benefits from the pool, at least in general terms.

Government involvement is necessary.

-Joe

 

[Meister]

We can either argue back and forth about why we can't or we can start talking about the MUSTS and go from there.

Getting costs down. A must.

Getting rid of pre existing conditions.

Not allowing the insurance providers to come up with new ways to jack up their prices

Covering everyone



Like the Auto company employees just went from $35 to $15 hr, the insurance company CEO's should start cutting their own salaries and lowering our costs. If they were smart, like the oil companies, they wouldn't push us too far.

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

The Private Insurance Bureaucracy has no interest in insuring older Americans - they're the ones making all the claims.

The Private Insurance Bureaucracy has no interest in covering pre-existing conditions, they're not profitable.

The only way to make it work, be it managed via a public bureaucracy or private bureaucracies is for We, The People to insist that the health-care pool of funds cover everyone who is willing to buy into the pool from cradle to grave, because cradle to 65 is when you put money into the pool and 65 to grave is when you claim benefits from the pool, at least in general terms.

Government involvement is necessary.

-Joe

Joe, Joe, we're in agreement on this, I might not have clarified this. But, what I'm saying is not having a government take over of healthcare. I believe that the elderly will be the ones to suffer the most under government healthcare. But, I am all for government oversight in the healthcare industry. It can be done.