Does the military create conservatives?

[daveman]

they need to make things up to feel better about themselves. apparently, they have no self-esteem without trying to actively diminish everyone who doesn't agree with their idiocy.

Jillian, have you met rdean?

I'd suggest you criticize the twit He was responding to before you tar me with that brush.

Thanks, Dave. Appreciated.

And unless you consider yourself a wackjob, I wouldn't go getting all defensive if I were you.

No, no reason to get defensive. I think I didn't make myself clear. I was saying that rdean is what you claim conservatives are above.

 

[daveman]

Oversimplified bull shit generalizations. I think you'd be surprised how many liberals there are in the military. I went in a flaming liberal, got out a flaming liberal, it wasn't until much later in life that I became a cranky conservative before finally moderating my views.

I am sure there are some liberals in the military. I do not know one ex-military liberal. You do see one on TV every once in a while and you read from some on here sometimes, but they are scarce.

Peach174 posted this:

It's just that it comes down to the number's.
The majority of this nation is Conservative to moderate, compared to Liberals.
Conservative 42%
Moderate 35%
Liberal 20%

If we logically consider half of the moderates are left leaning that means the number of liberals are 37.5%, I don't call that scarce. However most who are considered moderates tend to be slightly more towards the left then the right so in actuality it's probably more of a 60/40 or 55/45 split, still not scarce in my book.
As for your personal experience, that's easily explained by social dynamics, people tend to gravitate towards that and those they are comfortable with and ignore that and those they are not comfortable with.

Upon what data do you base the bolded?

 

[Warrior102]

The majority of those serving are Conservatives.
That's a fact.

 

[uscitizen]

Does the military create conservatives?

More accurately it creates Republicans.

 

[Warrior102]

Does the military create conservatives?

More accurately it creates Republicans.

I don't think so. Most of us enlist as registered Republicans.

 

[Article 15]

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

When I enlisted in the military I was a registered Republican.

I left a registered Independent......because the GOP is evil.

Unless the GOP cleans house I will never vote for them in a national election ever again.

 

[Ringel05]

I am sure there are some liberals in the military. I do not know one ex-military liberal. You do see one on TV every once in a while and you read from some on here sometimes, but they are scarce.

Peach174 posted this:

It's just that it comes down to the number's.
The majority of this nation is Conservative to moderate, compared to Liberals.
Conservative 42%
Moderate 35%
Liberal 20%

If we logically consider half of the moderates are left leaning that means the number of liberals are 37.5%, I don't call that scarce. However most who are considered moderates tend to be slightly more towards the left then the right so in actuality it's probably more of a 60/40 or 55/45 split, still not scarce in my book.
As for your personal experience, that's easily explained by social dynamics, people tend to gravitate towards that and those they are comfortable with and ignore that and those they are not comfortable with.

My dad is a WWII vet and has done volunteer work at one of the VA hospitals. I have gone with him and talked to many of the vets. I think you would have to agree that it would not be a hand picked group of friends that I choose to socialize with. It is true I did not talk politics with them but just what I heard it would be foolish to believe that 20% of veterans are liberals.

I'm a conservative moderate, to the wingnuts a RINO, many moderate liberals would be called Blue Dogs by the moonbats. Liberal and conservative isn't always what you think it is, there's no clearly defined demarcation lines until you start getting towards the extremes of both parties/philosophies which is why the Dems have generally been better at courting the moderate vote which was very evident since 2004.

The American Conservative » The Shifting Military Vote

Now granted the military moderate vote will probably swing back, probably due to the upcoming budget cuts but that's just my opinion, not a given fact.

 

[Article 15]

Peach174 posted this:


If we logically consider half of the moderates are left leaning that means the number of liberals are 37.5%, I don't call that scarce. However most who are considered moderates tend to be slightly more towards the left then the right so in actuality it's probably more of a 60/40 or 55/45 split, still not scarce in my book.
As for your personal experience, that's easily explained by social dynamics, people tend to gravitate towards that and those they are comfortable with and ignore that and those they are not comfortable with.

My dad is a WWII vet and has done volunteer work at one of the VA hospitals. I have gone with him and talked to many of the vets. I think you would have to agree that it would not be a hand picked group of friends that I choose to socialize with. It is true I did not talk politics with them but just what I heard it would be foolish to believe that 20% of veterans are liberals.

I'm a conservative moderate, to the wingnuts a RINO, many moderate liberals would be called Blue Dogs by the moonbats. Liberal and conservative isn't always what you think it is, there's no clearly defined demarcation lines until you start getting towards the extremes of both parties/philosophies which is why the Dems have generally been better at courting the moderate vote which was very evident since 2004.

The American Conservative » The Shifting Military Vote

Perhaps Dec. 8, 2004 was the day – the point where the “military vote” started peeling off from the Republican Party, for which it had been steadfastly true in majority numbers for at least 25 years. It was the day Army Spc.Thomas Wilson asked then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: “Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?”

To which Rumsfeld replied, “As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want …”You can have all the armor in the world on a tank, and it can [still] be blown up.”

The right wing talkers, true to form, turned on the young man, calling him a tool of the journalist embedded with his unit — though Wilson’s question was met by whoops and cheers from the 2,300 military men and women in Rumsfeld’s audience at the Kuwaiti staging area that day. Apparently “support the troops,” didn’t extend to those exercising the First Amendment rights they were supposedly fighting for — but no mind — the message was broadcast as clear as a reveille: you are on your own.

This is pretty much right around the time where I made my anti-Republican turn while still active duty.

The behavior at the time (and it has just carried right on over to today) of the GOP, their media shills, and foot soldiers like the ones we see here at USMB drove me the **** out of the party.

Being called a traitor, terrorist sympathizer, etc. after I separated and was free to speak my mind just galvanized me even further.

No way in **** do I want to be associated with that.

 

[Ringel05]

My dad is a WWII vet and has done volunteer work at one of the VA hospitals. I have gone with him and talked to many of the vets. I think you would have to agree that it would not be a hand picked group of friends that I choose to socialize with. It is true I did not talk politics with them but just what I heard it would be foolish to believe that 20% of veterans are liberals.

I'm a conservative moderate, to the wingnuts a RINO, many moderate liberals would be called Blue Dogs by the moonbats. Liberal and conservative isn't always what you think it is, there's no clearly defined demarcation lines until you start getting towards the extremes of both parties/philosophies which is why the Dems have generally been better at courting the moderate vote which was very evident since 2004.

The American Conservative » The Shifting Military Vote

Perhaps Dec. 8, 2004 was the day – the point where the “military vote” started peeling off from the Republican Party, for which it had been steadfastly true in majority numbers for at least 25 years. It was the day Army Spc.Thomas Wilson asked then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: “Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?”

To which Rumsfeld replied, “As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want …”You can have all the armor in the world on a tank, and it can [still] be blown up.”

The right wing talkers, true to form, turned on the young man, calling him a tool of the journalist embedded with his unit — though Wilson’s question was met by whoops and cheers from the 2,300 military men and women in Rumsfeld’s audience at the Kuwaiti staging area that day. Apparently “support the troops,” didn’t extend to those exercising the First Amendment rights they were supposedly fighting for — but no mind — the message was broadcast as clear as a reveille: you are on your own.

This is pretty much right around the time where I made my anti-Republican turn while still active duty.

The behavior at the time (and it has just carried right on over to today) of the GOP, their media shills, and foot soldiers like the ones we see here at USMB drove me the **** out of the party.

Being called a traitor, terrorist sympathizer, etc. after I separated and was free to speak my mind just galvanized me even further.

No way in **** do I want to be associated with that.

I just finally reached a point where I realized the Dems had been taken over by the far left as well as a few changes that occurred in my life, that drove me do do a 180 and become a rabid religious right neo-con. Thankfully I learned that is just as bad as the other much more quickly then my time as a liberal Dem which is why I'm now a confirmed right leaning moderate independent. What that means to me is I tend to vote for more moderate Dems, Repubs and Independents but like most there are certain issues I'm relatively far right on and others I'm relatively far left on.

 

[bornright]

I am sure that there are a few liberals that served in the military and some that respect military personnel, but all the people that truly hate and feel so superior to military personnel are always liberal. Maybe that is another thing that pushes military and ex-military into voting conservative in such large numbers.

 

[geauxtohell]

I am sure that there are a few liberals that served in the military and some that respect military personnel, but all the people that truly hate and feel so superior to military personnel are always liberal. Maybe that is another thing that pushes military and ex-military into voting conservative in such large numbers.

Yeah. Rumsfeld just loved the Army. Rummy had a bit of a reality check when he realized that the Air Force and the high tech gadgets he was enamored with couldn't win a war.

So keep telling yourself that.

 

[bornright]

I am sure that there are a few liberals that served in the military and some that respect military personnel, but all the people that truly hate and feel so superior to military personnel are always liberal. Maybe that is another thing that pushes military and ex-military into voting conservative in such large numbers.

Yeah. Rumsfeld just loved the Army. Rummy had a bit of a reality check when he realized that the Air Force and the high tech gadgets he was enamored with couldn't win a war.

So keep telling yourself that.

Unless you use nukes of course you need boots on the ground. Could you tell me what that has to do with my statement about the disrespect from liberals on the military?

 

[geauxtohell]

Unless you use nukes of course you need boots on the ground. Could you tell me what that has to do with my statement about the disrespect from liberals on the military?

Both sides have their contingent of people who have disdain for the military. They just express it differently.

At least the people that simply talk shit about the military have no power.

As opposed to jack-nuts like Rumsfeld and Chaney who view the military as catalysts for the political science experiments.

Sorry if you didn't have that figured out before.

 

[Salt Jones]

We lowered the standard and liberals got in.

Yeah that's what happened.

You can't dispute my post so you come up with some silly comment, very weak.

Not at all your perpetual saltiness. I had to go on a mission and only had time for a quick one liner. The vast majority of blacks and hispanics who enter the military are liberal???? fact check maybe? You are guessing kind of hard there since Im black and in the military and a conservative and many of my black military friends are also conservative. Now can we see stats alcohol, spousal abuse and debt claims?????

I did 20 years in the military. I lived on Navy, Marine and Air Force bases around the world. I'm black and I stand by my claim that "the vast majority of blacks and hispanics who enter the military are liberal". Concerning alcohol, domestic violence and debt:

Drinking and Spouse Abuse Among U.S. Army Soldiers

http://www.finrafoundation.org/web/groups/foundation/@foundation/documents/foundation/p122257.pdf

 

[bornright]

Unless you use nukes of course you need boots on the ground. Could you tell me what that has to do with my statement about the disrespect from liberals on the military?

Both sides have their contingent of people who have disdain for the military. They just express it differently.

At least the people that simply talk shit about the military have no power.

As opposed to jack-nuts like Rumsfeld and Chaney who view the military as catalysts for the political science experiments.

Sorry if you didn't have that figured out before.

Don't be sorry as I think I have things figured out for the most part. You and I have big differences in thoughts of Rumsfeld and Chaney.

Why do you feel the vast majority of vets support and vote conservative views?

 

[Toome]

I think the problem with this discussion is the definition of "conservative." Too many stereotypical definitions are being applied. Having said that, I don't think the military "creates" conservatives. I do believe that a person's experiences in the military greatly influences their political beliefs, but it's not as black and white as some folks in here believe.

Those who have several combat tours, and I mean the blood and guts stuff as opposed to earning a combat patch based on an administrative technicality, may have seen so much killing that they come out of it opposed to anything that may cause more young men and women to die on foreign soil for some bullshit political cause. We certainly saw that during Vietnam: the majority of "doves" were Vietnam veterans who had their fill of combat.

Depending on MOS, assignment history and whether serving in a peacetime or wartime military, there are those who may come out of the military strongly supporting social programs such as nationalized healthcare, education, etc. based on military benefits such as medical care, housing, rations & quarters allowances, etc. The military IS the primary leader in social reforms such as the integration of minorities and women. Based on the successes of these programs, it's not difficult to make the transition and support it when it becomes a political platform by a presidential hopeful.

Even gun ownership is affected. Unlike the civilian world, if you live on a military installation, you are subject to extraordinarily strict gun control measures that goes beyond simple registration of ownership.

It can have the opposite effect, too: because of these programs, policies and regulations, the military veteran may end up opposing these programs. But I think this applies to those who stay for a hitch and two and then strike it out on their own. Career veterans tend to support these programs and expect similar benefits when they retire.

I'm not saying that those who serve in the military end up being liberal or support liberal programs. I think military veterans end up on both sides of the spectrum, according to their experiences, and, for the most part, end up with a healthy balance between ideas considered "conservative" and "liberal."

Either way, I think it's fair to say that military veterans understand the need to go to war but expect the decision to be thought out fully with realistic goals. Otherwise, it's the military veteran who is the biggest critic and opponent to war. Combat, not politics, does that to a person.