Does the military create conservatives?

[gallantwarrior]

Times were different. Ordinary people had not been places. The military gave many of them the opportunity to go places they would never have gone otherwise.

How ya gonna keep em down on the farm after they've seen Paree?

I'll 'fess up... I joined the Army way back when because I had read James Michener's "The Drifters" in my junior year in high school. I desperately wanted to go to those places so I signed up for an assignment in Europe. I did get to Torremolinos, but never made Mozambique or Marrakech. I did get to see a lot of Europe, though.

 

[geauxtohell]

Description of Confusing Cause and Effect

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

The guys in my line platoon were paradigms of honor and responsibility.

They responsibly beat the living shit out of the MPs who broke up their beach party. I remember having to go and spring them all from the little MP castle on Schofield. I wish I could say I was disappointed in them, but our base MPs tended to be dicks (not the combat guys) who tended to abuse their power. A fricking PVT tried to arrest one of my SGTs on gate duty because he had the gall to make him stop (he wasn't responding) at the gate. I had some nice words with that young gentleman. Anyways, I digress.

Yep, they were upstanding members of society. You could certainly trust your *adult aged* daughter in the barracks.

Not to disparage them. They were great and I loved serving with them. However, I find the glorification of the military that old geezers tend to do a little bit weird.

Most of my guys could have given a shit about politics.

I have no idea what branch of military or what unit you were in as I never witnessed such things. What I saw from the military was that we were more mature than the civilians of the same age group. We drank and we liked adult aged females same as the equal aged civilians.

As a Vietnam vet Marine I am sure you would think of me as an old geezer. I know that my military experience made me a better dad, a better provider for my family, a better friend, a better student when I went back to college, and over all a better citizen than I would have been without the experiences. I wish you could have recieved the same education in life. We can never have too many conservatives in this country.

Army and Infantry. 25th ID from 2002 to 2005. I am not saying that military service doesn't make people better.

I am disputing this silly notion that the line is some sort of conservative finishing school.

It's often tossed about on here, and it's asinine. I am not sure what kind of education you want me to have. I have my experience, and that is sufficient for me. If your idea of "education" is something that leads someone to a conservative viewpoint then "no thanks".

FWIW, I enjoyed my time in the military, even when it sucked (like at Ranger School and Afghanistan). There is virture in being a grunt.

It's just not the kind of virtue that people are tossing around here.

 

[geauxtohell]

Description of Confusing Cause and Effect

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

The guys in my line platoon were paradigms of honor and responsibility.

They responsibly beat the living shit out of the MPs who broke up their beach party. I remember having to go and spring them all from the little MP castle on Schofield. I wish I could say I was disappointed in them, but our base MPs tended to be dicks (not the combat guys) who tended to abuse their power. A fricking PVT tried to arrest one of my SGTs on gate duty because he had the gall to make him stop (he wasn't responding) at the gate. I had some nice words with that young gentleman. Anyways, I digress.

Yep, they were upstanding members of society. You could certainly trust your *adult aged* daughter in the barracks.

Not to disparage them. They were great and I loved serving with them. However, I find the glorification of the military that old geezers tend to do a little bit weird.

Most of my guys could have given a shit about politics.

Times were different. Ordinary people had not been places. The military gave many of them the opportunity to go places they would never have gone otherwise.

How ya gonna keep em down on the farm after they've seen Paree?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYflT3h6lCQ]Arthur Fields - How Ya Gonna Keep'em Down On The Farm, 1919 - YouTube[/ame]

Well, it wasn't that long ago in my instance (2003 or so).

I just included that anecdote, because I found it humerous. Like I said, our base MPs had a reputation for being horrible and completely lacking in discipline. The rumor was always that they had the highest percentage of drug use. I don't know if that's true.

I was somewhat proud when I had to go get my guys out of confinement. They worked the MPs over pretty good. I just couldn't tell them that.

Needless to say: some people got some extra duty but not much came of it.

To the dismay of the MPs.

 

[Lumpy 1]

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

My guess is that they have conservative parents, at least that's true in my experience..

Liberal parents (since the 70's) tend to be willing to send others young Guys & Gals to defend the country, not their own...

 

[Ringel05]

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

Oversimplified bull shit generalizations. I think you'd be surprised how many liberals there are in the military. I went in a flaming liberal, got out a flaming liberal, it wasn't until much later in life that I became a cranky conservative before finally moderating my views.

 

[daveman]

Conservatives are, in general, much more patriotic than liberals. They are loyal to their flag, values, and country and are willing to put their lives at risk, to fight for it.

You write some dumb shit sometimes...but most neocon whackjobs do.....

they need to make things up to feel better about themselves. apparently, they have no self-esteem without trying to actively diminish everyone who doesn't agree with their idiocy.

Jillian, have you met rdean?

 

[Sallow]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

That's probably why I found so many conservatives working along side of me when I did charity work for Habitat for Humanity, The Red Cross, and clothing drives for the poor.

Oh wait..I didn't.

 

[Ringel05]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

That's probably why I found so many conservatives working along side of me when I did charity work for Habitat for Humanity, The Red Cross, and clothing drives for the poor.

Oh wait..I didn't.

That's probably why I found so many liberals working besides me when I did charity work for my church, food and clothing drives, blood drives, etc......

Oh wait.... I didn't.......

 

[jillian]

You write some dumb shit sometimes...but most neocon whackjobs do.....

they need to make things up to feel better about themselves. apparently, they have no self-esteem without trying to actively diminish everyone who doesn't agree with their idiocy.

Jillian, have you met rdean?

I'd suggest you criticize the twit He was responding to before you tar me with that brush.

Thanks, Dave. Appreciated.

And unless you consider yourself a wackjob, I wouldn't go getting all defensive if I were you.

 

[jillian]

That's probably why I found so many liberals working besides me when I did charity work for my church, food and clothing drives, blood drives, etc......

Oh wait.... I didn't.......

I would suggest that your church wouldn't be very attractive to "liberals". I'd also suggest that habitat for humanity is non-sectarian and wouldn't care about my religious beliefs, or yours, regardless of what they are.

 

[Ringel05]

That's probably why I found so many liberals working besides me when I did charity work for my church, food and clothing drives, blood drives, etc......

Oh wait.... I didn't.......

I would suggest that your church wouldn't be very attractive to "liberals". I'd also suggest that habitat for humanity is non-sectarian and wouldn't care about my religious beliefs, or yours, regardless of what they are.

Missing my stereotyped, generalize response point to a stereotyped, generalize post.......?

 

[American Horse]

To the degree the military is the "warrior class" they are conservative; the overarching philosophy or purpose of the warrior class is to preserve, save, hold against assault . . .

Etymology tells a little about what a conservatve is: Latin: conversō, v. (infinitive cōnservā́re) to preserve, to conserve, to maintain, to keep, to hold, to . . .
So there is an affinity

Still, the Warrior class does not hold the Trader class in high regard seeing them as corrupt, but they depend on the Trader class for weapons (according to Eric Hoffer in his book "The Ordeal of Change")

 

[jillian]

That's probably why I found so many liberals working besides me when I did charity work for my church, food and clothing drives, blood drives, etc......

Oh wait.... I didn't.......

I would suggest that your church wouldn't be very attractive to "liberals". I'd also suggest that habitat for humanity is non-sectarian and wouldn't care about my religious beliefs, or yours, regardless of what they are.

Missing my stereotyped, generalize response point to a stereotyped, generalize post.......?

 

[peach174]

I don't think that the military makes you lean one way or another in your political views.
You have your views before you join and after you join, it pretty much says the same.

It's just that it comes down to the number's.
The majority of this nation is Conservative to moderate, compared to Liberals.
Conservative 42%
Moderate 35%
Liberal 20%

 

[jillian]

I don't think that the military makes you lean one way or another in your political views.
You have your views before you join and after you join, it pretty much says the same.

It's just that it comes down to the number's.
The majority of this nation is Conservative to moderate, compared to Liberals.
Conservative 42%
Moderate 35%
Liberal 20%

Moderate is as likely to be left of center as it is right of center. Plus, I'm pretty sure that they are going by self definition, which is not always accurate

 

[peach174]

That's probably why I found so many liberals working besides me when I did charity work for my church, food and clothing drives, blood drives, etc......

Oh wait.... I didn't.......

I would suggest that your church wouldn't be very attractive to "liberals". I'd also suggest that habitat for humanity is non-sectarian and wouldn't care about my religious beliefs, or yours, regardless of what they are.

Sorry Jillian,
Habitat for Humanity is Christian and no they don't care about your religious beliefs when you join to help them.

Habitat for Humanity: a Christian ministry

Shelter from wind, rain and cold is a basic human need
Habitat for Humanity International is a nonprofit, ecumenical Christian organization.

 

[bornright]

Oversimplified bull shit generalizations. I think you'd be surprised how many liberals there are in the military. I went in a flaming liberal, got out a flaming liberal, it wasn't until much later in life that I became a cranky conservative before finally moderating my views.

I am sure there are some liberals in the military. I do not know one ex-military liberal. You do see one on TV every once in a while and you read from some on here sometimes, but they are scarce.

 

[Ringel05]

Oversimplified bull shit generalizations. I think you'd be surprised how many liberals there are in the military. I went in a flaming liberal, got out a flaming liberal, it wasn't until much later in life that I became a cranky conservative before finally moderating my views.

I am sure there are some liberals in the military. I do not know one ex-military liberal. You do see one on TV every once in a while and you read from some on here sometimes, but they are scarce.

Peach174 posted this:

It's just that it comes down to the number's.
The majority of this nation is Conservative to moderate, compared to Liberals.
Conservative 42%
Moderate 35%
Liberal 20%

If we logically consider half of the moderates are left leaning that means the number of liberals are 37.5%, I don't call that scarce. However most who are considered moderates tend to be slightly more towards the left then the right so in actuality it's probably more of a 60/40 or 55/45 split, still not scarce in my book.
As for your personal experience, that's easily explained by social dynamics, people tend to gravitate towards that and those they are comfortable with and ignore that and those they are not comfortable with.

 

[chikenwing]

Ignorance and fear creates conservatives. I thought it was obvious.

Well there's the problem,your trying to think.

Can one get any more twisted and just plan stupid??

 

[bornright]

Oversimplified bull shit generalizations. I think you'd be surprised how many liberals there are in the military. I went in a flaming liberal, got out a flaming liberal, it wasn't until much later in life that I became a cranky conservative before finally moderating my views.

I am sure there are some liberals in the military. I do not know one ex-military liberal. You do see one on TV every once in a while and you read from some on here sometimes, but they are scarce.

Peach174 posted this:

It's just that it comes down to the number's.
The majority of this nation is Conservative to moderate, compared to Liberals.
Conservative 42%
Moderate 35%
Liberal 20%

If we logically consider half of the moderates are left leaning that means the number of liberals are 37.5%, I don't call that scarce. However most who are considered moderates tend to be slightly more towards the left then the right so in actuality it's probably more of a 60/40 or 55/45 split, still not scarce in my book.
As for your personal experience, that's easily explained by social dynamics, people tend to gravitate towards that and those they are comfortable with and ignore that and those they are not comfortable with.

My dad is a WWII vet and has done volunteer work at one of the VA hospitals. I have gone with him and talked to many of the vets. I think you would have to agree that it would not be a hand picked group of friends that I choose to socialize with. It is true I did not talk politics with them but just what I heard it would be foolish to believe that 20% of veterans are liberals.