Does a LGBT person have to chose between being LGBT and being Christian?

Blackrook

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That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?
 

pismoe

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hope not , i prefer that homosexuals are guilt ridden and consumed with dread and guilt BRook .
 
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Blackrook

Blackrook

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hope not , i prefer that homosexuals are guilt ridden and consumed with dread and guilt BRook .
Everyone who is aware of sin and believes in God has some awareness of guilt and dread, homosexuals aren't the only one.

But there is no other group of sinners who is asking the church to accept not only them, but the sins they commit as well.

I don't think homosexuals have a right to demand that the church accept their sin.
 

Meriweather

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hope not , i prefer that homosexuals are guilt ridden and consumed with dread and guilt BRook .
Everyone who is aware of sin and believes in God has some awareness of guilt and dread, homosexuals aren't the only one.

But there is no other group of sinners who is asking the church to accept not only them, but the sins they commit as well.

I don't think homosexuals have a right to demand that the church accept their sin.
Neither Church nor government nor any individual can change the ideal. And only each individual can decide how close to the ideal they wish to be. The Church is there to help people attain the ideal.
 
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Blackrook

Blackrook

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The ideal is a life totally without sin, which is unacheivable. The best we can hope for is to live in a state of grace, which means our sins are not so serious as to be mortal sins, and if we do have mortal sin, we repent them (through confession if you're Catholic) so that we are once again in a state of grace.

There is no way to live an open, declared homosexual lifestyle and be in state of grace, because a person doing that is declaring that he will not repent of his sins.
 

caddo kid

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That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

The Bible directs men to not "spill" their seed so, according to The Bible masturbation is a sin.

Jus' sayin' ..........

If you jack off then according to Jesus you are going to Hell; oops ...........
 
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Blackrook

Blackrook

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That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

The Bible directs men to not "spill" their seed so, according to The Bible masturbation is a sin.

Jus' sayin' ..........

If you jack off then according to Jesus you are going to Hell; oops ...........
That's right, masturbation is a sin. I already said it, did you bother to read the OP?
 

caddo kid

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
 
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Blackrook

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.
 

caddo kid

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

well, it is also stupid for an all knowing being to create His supposed most loved creation, all while He knows that 'most' loved of all His creation will a majority burn in Hell forever. not a great concept, IMO.
 
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Blackrook

Blackrook

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

well, it is also stupid for an all knowing being to create His supposed most loved creation, all while He knows that 'most' loved of all His creation will a majority burn in Hell forever. not a great concept, IMO.
You keep saying everyone who sins will go to hell. I never said that, that is you who is saying it. It's obvious you don't have any intention of having a good faith discussion.
 

caddo kid

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

well, it is also stupid for an all knowing being to create His supposed most loved creation, all while He knows that 'most' loved of all His creation will a majority burn in Hell forever. not a great concept, IMO.
You keep saying everyone who sins will go to hell. I never said that, that is you who is saying it. It's obvious you don't have any intention of having a good faith discussion.

there is no way in Hell an imperfect animal can be a perfect spirit being; not gonna happen

but that is a different thread; totally
 

deanrd

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One is the way you were born.

The other is indoctrination.

You figure it out.
 
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Blackrook

Blackrook

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

well, it is also stupid for an all knowing being to create His supposed most loved creation, all while He knows that 'most' loved of all His creation will a majority burn in Hell forever. not a great concept, IMO.
You keep saying everyone who sins will go to hell. I never said that, that is you who is saying it. It's obvious you don't have any intention of having a good faith discussion.

there is no way in Hell an imperfect animal can be a perfect spirit being; not gonna happen
I never said we have to be perfect. You are deliberately distorting what I am saying.
 
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Blackrook

Blackrook

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One is the way you were born.

The other is indoctrination.

You figure it out.
Yes, we are all born with sinful tendencies, with different temptations.
 

caddo kid

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

well, it is also stupid for an all knowing being to create His supposed most loved creation, all while He knows that 'most' loved of all His creation will a majority burn in Hell forever. not a great concept, IMO.
You keep saying everyone who sins will go to hell. I never said that, that is you who is saying it. It's obvious you don't have any intention of having a good faith discussion.

there is no way in Hell an imperfect animal can be a perfect spirit being; not gonna happen
I never said we have to be perfect. You are deliberately distorting what I am saying.

The Bible says humans have to be perfect to be in paradise; different thread ........... stop already ..........
 

The Professor

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That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.Edit

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

The Bible directs men to not "spill" their seed so, according to The Bible masturbation is a sin.

Jus' sayin' ..........

If you jack off then according to Jesus you are going to Hell; oops ...........
I respectfully disagree.

Most people who claim that masturbation is a Biblical sin rely on a few verses in the Book of Genesis. Here is what the Bible says:

“And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also” (Genesis 38:7-10, KJV).

While some Bible readers believe the quoted verses prove masturbation is a deadly sin, others do not. It has been my experience that most Christians believe that Onan was killed solely because he refused to impregnate his dead brothers wife, not because his sperm was “wasted.” Here is a fairly good description on how most Christians interpret the quoted verses:

“Why did God kill Onan for spilling his seed on the ground? The reason God did this is not because Onan wasted his seed on the ground, but because Onan refused to perform his familial duties of producing offspring for his brother's. This was a great offense at the time. Now, we must realize that the culture was very different than ours is today. In that culture, when a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to "go in to" the wife and produce children. These children were then considered to be the descendants of the original late husband and would be raised as such. This way, the offspring would be able to take care of the mother, provide more people for the community, and thereby raise their own children, continuing the name of that family. Onan knew this and refused to take part in furthering the honor and name of the brother's wife and thereby also risking provision for her in the future. To this, God was very displeased and took Onan's life.”

Why did God kill a man for spilling his seed on the ground? | CARM.org

This interpretation is much more reasonable considering that it is physically impossible for a normal healthy man to waste his seed. Assuming that Onan was a typical male, his sperm is constantly replenished (1,500 per second) as seed is used and old unused seed dies in the body. A single ejaculation does not “drain the bank.” Many men have been know to have multiple ejaculations during a single sexual encounter and many more have been able to have sex (including ejaculations) more than once in a single day. I'm an old man now (79) and I can only say, ah yes, I remember it well.

CONCLUSION: There is nothing in the Bible that clearly states masturbation is a sin. Geneses 38:7-10 does not condemn masturbation. Onan was killed solely because he would not impregnate his deceased brother's childless wife as the law required.

Note: There are also verses in Leviticus 15 which is sometimes, though rarely, used to prove masturbation is a sin (although not a serious one). I have avoided discussing this Book because the it would take too much of my time and time is a commodity that is precious at my age. Almost all my commentary on the USMB about the Bible has been cut-and-paste from articles I have written over the years. I had not previously written about Leviticus 15 in detail and being a very poor typist I do not want to do it now. I might change my mind if others make this Book an issue.
 

deanrd

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One is the way you were born.

The other is indoctrination.

You figure it out.
Yes, we are all born with sinful tendencies, with different temptations.
So Republicans hating gays and blacks and Hispanics and other minorities is natural, or is it indoctrination?
What about Republicans allergy to education? Natural or indoctrination?
Republicans lying? Natural or indoctrination?
 

caddo kid

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Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.
Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

well, it is also stupid for an all knowing being to create His supposed most loved creation, all while He knows that 'most' loved of all His creation will a majority burn in Hell forever. not a great concept, IMO.
You keep saying everyone who sins will go to hell. I never said that, that is you who is saying it. It's obvious you don't have any intention of having a good faith discussion.

there is no way in Hell an imperfect animal can be a perfect spirit being; not gonna happen
I never said we have to be perfect. You are deliberately distorting what I am saying.
No, you did not. The Bible says that. Is it possible?
 

JoeB131

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My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?
Again, when the Catholic Church stops molesting little boys, they can lecture to us about what is sinful. We might not even snicker when they do.

The reality is, of course, is that we all ignore rules that are in the Bible, even the most devout Christians. Whole bunch of people are going to be working today, even though the Bible Tells them not to.

More to the point, the Bible also endorses slavery, which no one today thinks is still a good thing. God wasn't changing his mind, so we changed ours.

So do you have any arguments against homosexuality that don't include 'God says it's bad" and "I think it's icky."?
 

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