Do you support unions?

[Harry Dresden]

unions have been great for China....all our jobs are over there now

As you know, unions caused the end of our steel industry, much of our manufacturing, our auto industry, and many other industries due to unrealistic hikes in wages and benefits.

As far as public unions go, they should be illegal. Even far-left Franklin Roosevelt knew that could not work. But, here we are.

why?.....do govt workers get treated better than private sector workers?....and im not talking financially...who stands for them when management steps all over them?...

 

[Mac1958]

The world economy has changed drastically since the heyday of unions. Competition, both domestic and global, is far more intense, and the rise of technology and AI are only exacerbating that. Quickly. That's just reality.

And the same time, life is complicated. Unions (can) provide services that are absolutely vital in this environment. So, I'd think that unions could rise and even thrive if they were willing to make some tweaks to reflect the new reality. Examples:

Collective Bargaining/Current Pay & Benefits
Sure. A professional, experienced, central resource to maximize current pay and benefits is perfectly legitimate and fair. Plus, businesses should not have to provide health insurance, a massive overall hit to the bottom line. Health insurance should be individual and portable, with Medicare Advantage Plans being the model.

Workplace Safety & Legal Protections
Absolutely. Probably even more important than collective bargaining. We must protect American workers' safety, financial and legal rights. Period.

Exclusionary Workplace Rules
You can drive this truck, but not that truck. You can use this machine, but not that machine. No. That creates waste and inefficiencies that many businesses simply can't afford in this age of global competition.

After-Work Benefits
Pensions and lifelong health benefits are a killer to a company's bottom line. The health benefits would be addressed in the first example. Pensions from coast to coast are in trouble, most of them are based on unachievable assumed investment performance, and we can easily lean on more robust 401K plans with increased company matching, as budgets allow.

Just a few ideas.

Things don't have to be either/or all the time. It doesn't have to be "unions everywhere or no unions". We can think outside the box a bit, if we still have that ability.

Do we? I'm doubting it.

 

[sparky]

The world economy has changed drastically since the heyday of unions. Competition, both domestic and global, is far more intense, and the rise of technology and AI are only exacerbating that. Quickly. That's just reality.

And the same time, life is complicated. Unions (can) provide services that are absolutely vital in this environment. So, I'd think that unions could rise and even thrive if they were willing to make some tweaks to reflect the new reality. Examples:

Collective Bargaining/Current Pay & Benefits
Sure. A professional, experienced, central resource to maximize current pay and benefits is perfectly legitimate and fair. Plus, businesses should not have to provide health insurance, a massive overall hit to the bottom line. Health insurance should be individual and portable, with Medicare Advantage Plans being the model.

Workplace Safety & Legal Protections
Absolutely. Probably even more important than collective bargaining. We must protect American workers' safety, financial and legal rights. Period.

Exclusionary Workplace Rules
You can drive this truck, but not that truck. You can use this machine, but not that machine. No. That creates waste and inefficiencies that many businesses simply can't afford in this age of global competition.

After-Work Benefits
Pensions and lifelong health benefits are a killer to a company's bottom line. The health benefits would be addressed in the first example. Pensions from coast to coast are in trouble, most of them are based on unachievable assumed investment performance, and we can easily lean on more robust 401K plans with increased company matching, as budgets allow.

Just a few ideas.

Things don't have to be either/or all the time. It doesn't have to be "unions everywhere or no unions". We can think outside the box a bit, if we still have that ability.

Do we? I'm doubting it.

401K's replaced pensions

and back when Congress married health care to employment , they were told it wouldn't work out

as to safety , we've osha

~S~

 

[initforme]

Back then Americans bought American made products. We don't do that any longer. That's why the only thing unions do is chase jobs away.

Your union support and push is fruitless. In order to bring back unions, you have to convince me why I should pay $2,500 for an American made union big screen television over the same television made overseas for $800.00. Now, if you can change the purchasing attitudes of the American consumers first, only then can you try to bring back unions. But promoting unions without changing our consumer attitude is a compete wast of time.

So would you like americans manufacturing the same products here for even nearly the same wage knowing full well one cannot even eat on those wages? I guess let's try it but if people don't take those jobs we can't cry about it. Fact is americans have never worked as hard as they do today.

 

[Circe]

I believe that over 95% of America supports unions. But I wonder if that was the case in the 1940s or maybe it has changed today. I want to be able to convince as many people as possible here that unions are pro American, they are pro Christian they are pro traditions. They are pro civil liberties, they are pro second amendment, they are pro police and pro firefighters and pro military.

Yes there are corrupt union leaders yes they are corrupt teachers, yes there are corrupt police officers, yes there are corrupt members of the NAACP, yes there are corrupt members of the United States government. There’s corruption in every country in the world. America stands out as the most liberal and free country at all of human history. Our middle class, our military , and our economy is the best in the world because of American greatness, Because of our glorious victory in World War II where we saved the free world with our brave Soviet , Chinese and British allies ….and because of the steel workers and United States military, and the will of the American men and women through history…they all made our country great and glorious.

Rather than going to a very long post as I often do I’ll make this as short as possible. I can’t think of a better image and video to show then the one below. Because after all all of the conservatives here who say they love America who say they stand by the Second Amendment, who they who say they stand by family, Christianity and American traditions I only ask you to just look briefly at the following video because the very people you aspire to be …well they are the men and the women of the following video. The steel workers of the following video who contributed to World War II who fought in World War II. Who fought in the Vietnam war who came home and who were able to get a steel job that set them for life. I can’t think of anything else to bring forward to prove my point gentlemen and ladies. I can’t think of anything else other than this. These were and are unionized workers these are steel workers.



That is patriotism^

The power of American steel we see that above. The power of American greatness in manufacturing we see this above. Our bridges are roads, our road signs and so much more come from steel. Just the term “American steel” sounds so awesome and strong.

I don't know where you get that 95% figure, of Americans supporting unions.

I think unions are terrible and cause endless trouble and unrest and inconvenience and worse to the general public. One of the best things Reagan did was to break the power of unions as soon as he got in, and that lasted for many years. It's very unfortunate that they are increasing their power again ---- against the people, and the system of production.

 

[sparky]

Fact is americans have never worked as hard as they do today.

and for less at that

one really needs to acknowledge union history

we went from >>>>

Child Labor During the Industrial Revolution in America

A brief overview of Child Labor in 1900s America and during the Gilded Age and Industrial Revolution.

www.studentsofhistory.com

where children quit school , so the family could eat

To a society in from the 50's through the 70's where ONE blue collar parent could support the entire family

Then came the Union busters ,the Reaganistas, NAFTA , Globalization

Now our children face a lesser life style than we enjoy, and that middle class is anorexic due to the disparity they created
~S~

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So would you like americans manufacturing the same products here for even nearly the same wage knowing full well one cannot even eat on those wages? I guess let's try it but if people don't take those jobs we can't cry about it. Fact is americans have never worked as hard as they do today.

The fact is Americans are lazy and don't want to work today. That's why we have a labor shortage leading to the highest inflation rate we've had in 40 years.

It's not what I want, what I think, what I hope happens. It's about reality: we will not buy our own American made union products. That's all. You can't sell something people don't want.

If my union controlled company makes lawnmowers, and nobody is buying our lawnmowers, how am I supposed to keep my business open and these union workers working? It's impossible.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Who has control of televisions these days mostly ,…Toshiba? Obviously we get a lot of the stuff from Japan my friend. But I give credit to Japanese engineers they make some pretty good Automobiles these days.

With regards to mass consumerism today. We still use steel in abundance. Perhaps the difference of today that is quite glaring compared to the American past ….is we have many more fast food chains in mega stores like Walmart and target that don’t pay much to workers in this country and that is a bad part of mass consumerism.




There’s also a problem with the changing of jobs in America…. because going back to the time period We are talking about you could see one factory employing 40,000 people. Whether it be Republic steel or Bethlehem steel here in Buffalo New York they employed tens of thousands of people at each of their plants. All of those folks had union jobs. And this type of site where one factory or one large building employs 40,000 even 100,000 people it seems like those days are gone and I don’t know if that’s a good thing. So in some way shape or form the question is can that type of situation be brought back.?

Can big tech give us good jobs. Tesla cannot give us good jobs they have a number of plants all over the country including one in Buffalo that took over the former Bethlehem steel plant. And it’s an ugly site Tesla in Buffalo in Plaza about 500 people and nonunion jobs that pay a non-competitive rate something like $17 an hour with no upward mobility no pension no union protection. Whereas back in the day I Bethlehem Steel you were making $30 an hour after six months on the job adjusted for inflation of course to today’s currency. And you had a pension. And you were making an American product …American steel that we saw in our skyscrapers, we see today in our bridges and we see all over the country…. steel is still very much in use.

The big companies these days are Tesla, Amazon and Google. Not everyone can get a job in tech though and honestly can the tech industry give someone a great job out of high school like we used to be able to get with union jobs?. So there’s a great concern in going forward for the country with regard to having a strong middle class.

Nowadays it seems to be about the service industry and tech jobs in this country. And there’s a few concerns there. What about all that union jobs that folks used to be able to get it right out of high school working at a steel mill or auto plants and they be set for life. Plus with big tech and the service industry going woke, this is a problem for American culture it’s making this week. What does steel jobs, the auto jobs and we can also talk about police jobs working as a correction officer in a New York state prison for example those jobs create muscles and they make men and women strong. They also provide a very good pension.

We can have anything we want provided people will support it. But we won't when it comes to union made products because they are so much more expensive.

As time went on we were faced with three options 1) good paying union jobs but much higher priced products. 2) Cheaper products but not very great paying non-union jobs. 3) Growth of our stock market where most 401K retirement plans are, but not good paying jobs. We collectively chose options 2 and 3. In other words great paying jobs are the least of our priorities.

it reminds me of a joke my father used to tell. No, Dad's jokes were never funny, but it's Dad, so.......

A man walks up to a banana stand where the vendor has a sign that says BANANA'S $1.00 PER POUND. He says "why are your bananas so expensive? The guy down the street has bananas for .50 a pound!" The vendor asks "Then why don't you buy your bananas over there?" The man says "Because he's out of bananas!" The vendor says, well when I'm out of bananas, I'll sell mine for .50 a pound too!

Jobs are not created to have good paying jobs, jobs are created to manufacture products or sell services. You can't just bring back unions to give people good paying jobs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can retire whenever you damn well please and being a "government worker" doesn't permit you to collect S.S. any sooner than anyone else. If you could just quit whining,.. that'd be great!

Why is it anytime somebody from the right expresses disagreement they are whining, but when the commies do it they are concerned citizens?

I worked with retired government workers. They took a part-time job with our company because they were retired with whatever pension those people get. They were all in their mid 50's and could have easily survived on that pension alone. They took jobs with us because they were bored.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

why do govt workers get treated better than private ones?...they dont have asshole managers?....

They have lots of ass managers, but the managers have far less power.

 

[Harry Dresden]

They have lots of ass managers, but the managers have far less power.

were i worked they had lots of power....they were the ones who said what is what....and if it made your job harder to do or less safe...their attitude?....tough shit....

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Unions played a crucial role in dramatically improving the lives of the commoner.
We would not have a middle class without what unions accomplished in the past.
However... today they offer no such role. They are more of a detriment than anything else.
Public unions are the worst of all. Teachers unions/police unions primary act is protecting bad people and stifling good people.
Industry unions take money from workers, but give them nothing in return. Except moving half their jobs to foreign labor.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

We can have anything we want provided people will support it. But we won't when it comes to union made products because they are so much more expensive.

As time went on we were faced with three options 1) good paying union jobs but much higher priced products. 2) Cheaper products but not very great paying non-union jobs. 3) Growth of our stock market where most 401K retirement plans are, but not good paying jobs. We collectively chose options 2 and 3. In other words great paying jobs are the least of our priorities.

it reminds me of a joke my father used to tell. No, Dad's jokes were never funny, but it's Dad, so.......

A man walks up to a banana stand where the vendor has a sign that says BANANA'S $1.00 PER POUND. He says "why are your bananas so expensive? The guy down the street has bananas for .50 a pound!" The vendor asks "Then why don't you buy your bananas over there?" The man says "Because he's out of bananas!" The vendor says, well when I'm out of bananas, I'll sell mine for .50 a pound too!

Jobs are not created to have good paying jobs, jobs are created to manufacture products or sell services. You can't just bring back unions to give people good paying jobs.

I appreciate you bring it up with your dad said. What I can add though is that something my dad told me as well which is that the whole reason we have unions was the whole reason why we had unions in the first place was to check the corrupt employers. That’s what brought us the eight hour workday and a 40 hour work week, and overtime pay and the elimination of sweat Shops, elimination of child labor.

You talk about what the purpose of jobs are. You’re right about that in for the longest Time in America we had an incredible system where millions of people work at factories producing goods that they bought. And they produce goods that everyone was buying. And because of this boom in the steel /auto industry the restaurants were busy because they were filled with customers who worked at these industries and so the waitresses made a lot of money in Tips…. for much of the 20th century in the United States we had a great thing going and I think that we’ve lost our way.

When it comes to the downfall of manufacturing jobs. We can blame our government for shipping the jobs overseas. We can blame corrupt unions but no matter what for a long time we had an amazing system for decades an end people were able to get great job right out of high school and they were union jobs. That system is no longer here and look at how bad our country is look at the rise of racial division we didn’t have that in the past. We had much more pride the black man and white man had better jobs in the American past then they do today

What many people well practically what everyone wants is job protection. So whether it needs a union or not everyone needs job protection, overtime pay, a way up the ladder. The ability to provide for their children. And a job that installs pride in America that’s what the steel jobs brought us because those men and women built steel for the United States military so they served the purpose

Let’s take the service industry which our government continues to prop up and they keep claiming that this is the way forward. OK if they say that they need to do something about job protection associated with companies like rideshare platforms or food delivery platforms which employ millions of Americans. The horror stories are you have people who have done tens of thousands of jobs with these companies tens of thousands of deliveries it literally takes one customer who could be a Black Lives Matter member hates white people it could even be one of the people who are racist against blacks and all it takes is one single false complaint and that person gets fired. And they lose the job for the rest of their life. This is anti-American no employer has a right to do this in a country like America this is what happens in Third World dictatorships. So if it can be done without a union so be it but I’m going by history here

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

As you know, unions caused the end of our steel industry, much of our manufacturing, our auto industry, and many other industries due to unrealistic hikes in wages and benefits.

As far as public unions go, they should be illegal. Even far-left Franklin Roosevelt knew that could not work. But, here we are.

Here’s what we all know though brother. For much of the 20th century decades on and we had a great system this country where you could get a union job out of high school. We’re talking about mass employers like republic steel, Ford Motor Company General Motors we’re not talking about any of the unions that people are talking about in this thread that screw people over. I’m talking about the good unions and I’m talking about the great job of American history how do we bring that system back is it even possible? Or we screwed?

Can we have a system we used to have without unions? Can you have job protection without unions

 

[Unkotare]

The same one post over and over again...

 

[initforme]

People retiring earlier, not later, is what employers want and need especially right now. Higher and higher turnover rates are coming. Not a bad thing. In fact it's a boon for businesses.

 

[Grumblenuts]

As far as public unions go, they should be illegal. Even far-left Franklin Roosevelt knew that could not work. But, here we are.

At the beginning of the New Deal, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his Labor Secretary, Frances Perkins, steered a progressive middle course in labor relations. They and many of their advisers believed that if laws and regulations could be put in place that improved workplace conditions and increased wages, then workers would not need unions.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Funny but also sad that all of the fellow people who claim to be Democrats won’t even come into this right because they hate me. That’s a sick thing.

Zincwarrior
C_Clayton_Jones
Biff_Poindexter
Moonglow
Grumblenuts
bodecea

If you guys do not vote or support unions how can you call yourself a Democrat. ? lets stop holding grudges stop carrying over rivalry some of the threads…. This isn’t about getting personal it’s about one thing where do you stand on unions. Provide your vote provide your voice show yourself to be a patriot…. have the decency to vote like our Republican posters have


Don’t hold grudges this is your moment. Where are all the Democrats on this form. Are you guys supportive of unions…. Or has Black Lives Matter convinced you to be against the police unions. ? This country need you to do what is right.

I see some of you folks have the little dogs in your picture , OK you’re about animal rights. Praise God

You guys say you’re all about rights for everyone where are you people the country needs you. Where is your voice here.

.

 

[Moonglow]

Unions are ok if that is what you want. I have always been independent and worked for myself(no union needed since I treat myself great).
I am no Democrat nor am I a Republican, I am an independent.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Moonglow

What are you voting. Where do you stand on unions? Where is your vote. You’re not a Democrat right?


Hey Moonglow I’m asking you to stand up for democracy here wherever you stand whether you oppose or support unions. Look at how republican posters provided their views and they are following the lines of democracy and freedom. Can you do the same brother