Zone1 Do you claim to be an "Atheist?"

[ding]

As a person who was raised to be Baptist preacher I can tell you that I logically looked at what I was being taught and became a deist. Simply put we believe that God created the universe and then went on vacation.

The beauty of God's creation is the self compensating feature of existence. You are like the disciples in the boat in the raging storm while Jesus is sleeping. You think God is on vacation while you are in your storms, but he's not. He's there. He's pruning you. He's purifying you. Life is a crucible.

 

[ding]

As a person who was raised to be Baptist preacher I can tell you that I logically looked at what I was being taught and became a deist.

I'm curious. Were you taught to have a relationship with God? And if so, did you?

And why be a deist? Why not be an atheist? Isn't the benefit the same? None.

 

[flack]

The beauty of God's creation is the self compensating feature of existence. You are like the disciples in the boat in the raging storm while Jesus is sleeping. You think God is on vacation while you are in your storms, but he's not. He's there. He's pruning you. He's purifying you. Life is a crucible.

Not really. What you need to understand is the universe doesn’t care about you. There is no great plan. There is only randomness.

 

[flack]

Once you fully understand this you cannot not know it.

Earth moves at multiple, simultaneous speeds, combining rotation and orbit. It rotates at roughly 1,000 mph (1,670 km/h) at the equator, orbits the sun at roughly 67,000 mph (107,000 km/h), and hurtles around the galaxy at over 490,000 mph (220 km/s)
. Total motion through space is about 1.3 million

 

[flack]

But you think you are just sitting in a chair watching TV.

 

[ding]

Not really. What you need to understand is the universe doesn’t care about you. There is no great plan. There is only randomness.

Actually there is no randomness. For every effect there was a cause. You are confusing chaotic with random. Two different things.

As for the universe not caring about you, maybe you aren't looking at it correctly. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Some lead to better outcomes and some lead to worse outcomes. So we do receive feedback in the form of consequences; good and bad. If it were as you say, there would be no reward or punishment for how we behaved. It would be random. Which nothing truly ever is.

 

[ding]

Once you fully understand this you cannot not know it.

Earth moves at multiple, simultaneous speeds, combining rotation and orbit. It rotates at roughly 1,000 mph (1,670 km/h) at the equator, orbits the sun at roughly 67,000 mph (107,000 km/h), and hurtles around the galaxy at over 490,000 mph (220 km/s)
. Total motion through space is about 1.3 million

But you think you are just sitting in a chair watching TV.

All true and irrelevant other than the universe is conducive for life and intelligence to arise. The universe popped into existence - not being created from existing matter - in an improbable way which should have only left radiation instead of radiation and matter. And that matter had the only structure possible - in an infinite number of possibilities - for life and intelligence to evolve. Which is did because beings that know and create were predestined by the laws of nature which existed before space time itself.... and you think this was an accident instead of intentional?

 

[flack]

Actually there is no randomness. For every effect there was a cause. You are confusing chaotic with random. Two different things.

As for the universe not caring about you, maybe you aren't looking at it correctly. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Some lead to better outcomes and some lead to worse outcomes. So we do receive feedback in the form of consequences; good and bad. If it were as you say, there would be no reward or punishment for how we behaved. It would be random. Which nothing truly ever is.

Actually there is no randomness. For every effect there was a cause. You are confusing chaotic with random. Two different things.

As for the universe not caring about you, maybe you aren't looking at it correctly. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Some lead to better outcomes and some lead to worse outcomes. So we do receive feedback in the form of consequences; good and bad. If it were as you say, there would be no reward or punishment for how we behaved. It would be random. Which nothing truly ever is.

You are putting a human emotion on something that is emotionless..

 

[ding]

You are putting a human emotion on something that is emoionless.

No. I'm making observations of reality. Observations of order within the universe. Isn't one of the reasons people are deists is because they see order in nature?

Yes, deists generally see profound order in nature, often viewing the universe as a rational, self-operating system that reflects the intelligence of a creator. This perspective is a cornerstone of deism, which often utilizes the "argument from design"—similar to a clockmaker model—where God is seen as the initial architect who established natural laws but does not intervene in the world.
Philosophy Now +2

Key aspects of how deists perceive order in nature include:

• The "Clockmaker" Analogy: Many deists follow a view that God created the universe, set it in motion, and then left it to operate autonomously through natural laws, rather than needing to constantly interfere.
• Scientific Understanding: Historically, deists were deeply influenced by the Scientific Revolution (e.g., Newton), viewing discoveries about gravity, physics, and biology as evidence of a perfectly designed, orderly system, not random chance.
• Rationality in Complexity: Deists often point to complex structures, such as DNA or the precise alignment of physical constants, as evidence that the universe is governed by intelligent design rather than accident.
• "Nature's God": Deists typically respect the order of nature as the only true "revelation," preferring to rely on reason and observation of the natural world rather than scripture.
• Variations in Thought: While classical deism emphasizes a static, mechanistic design, some contemporary deists see a more "co-creative" process where the universe is an evolving, yet orderly, system.
  Wikipedia +7

Note: Some deists may view this order as a direct reflection of a purposeful God, while others, sometimes called "pandeists," might see God and the universe as essentially the same, with the divine essence being found within the orderly workings of nature itself.

 

[ding]

You are putting a human emotion on something that is emotionless..

Your belief that the universe is random is a direct contradiction to what deists believe. How do you explain that?

 

[flack]

Your belief that the universe is random is a direct contradiction to what deists believe. How do you explain that?

I am also a Whovian.

 

[flack]

No. I'm making observations of reality. Observations of order within the universe. Isn't one of the reasons people are deists is because they see order in nature?

Yes, deists generally see profound order in nature, often viewing the universe as a rational, self-operating system that reflects the intelligence of a creator. This perspective is a cornerstone of deism, which often utilizes the "argument from design"—similar to a clockmaker model—where God is seen as the initial architect who established natural laws but does not intervene in the world.
Philosophy Now +2

Key aspects of how deists perceive order in nature include:

• The "Clockmaker" Analogy: Many deists follow a view that God created the universe, set it in motion, and then left it to operate autonomously through natural laws, rather than needing to constantly interfere.
• Scientific Understanding: Historically, deists were deeply influenced by the Scientific Revolution (e.g., Newton), viewing discoveries about gravity, physics, and biology as evidence of a perfectly designed, orderly system, not random chance.
• Rationality in Complexity: Deists often point to complex structures, such as DNA or the precise alignment of physical constants, as evidence that the universe is governed by intelligent design rather than accident.
• "Nature's God": Deists typically respect the order of nature as the only true "revelation," preferring to rely on reason and observation of the natural world rather than scripture.
• Variations in Thought: While classical deism emphasizes a static, mechanistic design, some contemporary deists see a more "co-creative" process where the universe is an evolving, yet orderly, system.
  Wikipedia +7

Note: Some deists may view this order as a direct reflection of a purposeful God, while others, sometimes called "pandeists," might see God and the universe as essentially the same, with the divine essence being found within the orderly workings of nature itself.

 

[flack]

Your belief that the universe is random is a direct contradiction to what deists believe. How do you explain that?

Once you set something in motion without any constraints what happens will be random. Outside forces, not control, will change the dynamics of the original intent. Example a comet going by a body in space will change direction. We control spacecraft by using this method. The spacecraft is controlled the comet is not.

 

[flack]

 

[Blaster]

Atheists suck.