Do you believe or not believe in God?

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not that fond of Christians I should say Christianity either. It's the imagery. The crucifixion fixation is too masochistic for my taste. If I was forced to chose an organized religion, them being all being about the same philosophically speaking, I would choose Islam. Islamic art and architecture is the most beautiful to me and I love the sound of a muezzin calling to prayer.

I think though, that only the Unitarian Universalists would have me.

Well and the whole women are property still in Islam might not suit you as well.

 

[Anguille]

Well and the whole women are property still in Islam might not suit you as well.

Islam allowed women to own property several centuries before it was allowed in Christian countries.

Christian and Jewish tradition can be just as oppressive towards women. All depends on what you read into your holy book.

 

[Gunny]

It's interesting to try to imagine a time before time. I'm not entirely able to do so. It tickles my brain kind of like how it tickles your teeth to chew on a rubber band your teeth. ( I haven't done that since I was about 9, in case anyone was wondering).

Like the so-called ever expanding universe. What is it expanding into? What is not part of the universe?

Good question. If the universe is infinite, how can it expand? If it is not infinite, what lies beyond?

How does one decide the universe is expanding without a center identified to expand from, and a border that is moving to prove expansion?

Time is a tough concept. Time "is." Everything is "now." How can it have a beginning or an end without there being absolute nothingness to start with and absolute nothingness in the end and how does one identify the existence of of the nothingness at the beginning and end without using time as evidence of its existence?

I venture to say there are no answers to those questions. Only theories and speculation.

 

[Jimmy28031]

Prove it.



If this is possible, it is just as possible that existence was not created and has always been--no need for your God at all.



According to your mytholgy, sure--but what exactly is it that objectively and imperically sets your mythology apart from other mythologies such that yours is valid and the others are not?



Because every human being that has ever existed is morally superior to your God of eternal torture and human suffering--who is clearly a vain, sadistic, bloodthirsty prick.



Yet throughout your miserable life you will have spread unneccesary guilt and fear with your retrubitory threats from some imaginary God. You will have granted your moral validation to the vicous consequences of every witch hunt, inquisition, crusade, and jihad ever inspired by the self-righteuos wrath of your imaginary God. I don't know how you live with that, but if you want to die with it, all I can say is,"The sooner the better."



I'm not taking any chances; I just want nothing to do with your "pay off"--your deranged "heaven" bought by the worship and veneration of cruelty and agony. I roundly reject your blood-thirsty and sadistic religion of human sacrifice. I am an enemy to your tyrannical god of torture and human suffering.

AND I SWEAR, if you offer me salvation through the blood of of the Lord, Jesus Christ(TM), I'll say "NO THANK YOU" to this offer to expunge my sins in the blood of an innocent, nor shall I place upon him the burdens of sins he has not committed. In other words, I refuse to make a sacrificial animal of any human being -- including Jesus.

First I would like to say "may God forgive you!! for you truly no not what you are saying". You said that my God, Jesus Christ was a bloodthirsty prick, a god of eternal torture and human suffering, who is vain, and sadistic. May God help you. How can you say such? I’m not one for beating a dead horse, but you said some things here that are so untrue. You asked me to prove that God is the creator, Your proof is your self. Who if God did not do it, created you? Where did we all come from? What about all things that are? Where did it begin? And how? What about all the things that are being found by people all over the world that prove of Jesus’ walk on this earth? But the biggest of all-- How about stuff in the bible that has already come true? Not one thing in the bible can any one disprove, but there is so much that people can prove, and have already done so. And the final proof will be when we the believers are called to heaven and the rest who did not believe even thou they new, are here for the tribulation times. Then what will you scream? I will give you a little advice, if you are in fact here for those troublesome times, You will have a second chance if you are living when that time comes, just do not take the mark of the beast. That is the mark that will be enforced by the anti christ and those who reject it will not be able to buy or sell anything. No food, No homes, No cars, Nothing will you be able to obtain without that mark. So what is the mark? Some believe that it is a computer chip that will be inserted in the hand or forehead, but the number of it is 666. Whatever the mark is, and you will find out if you are here for those times, just don’t take it. Because if you do not take it, when Jesus returns after the seven years of that horrible time, those who did not take the mark and those who died in his name will be called to heaven. The bible dose say that there will be those who rejected Christ, but during the tribulation will know that he is God, and ask for his forgiveness, and reject that mark. Please however, don’t say that you would not be one of those who would ask for that forgiveness, because you don't know what you will do till that time comes, and I pray, if you do not change your heart by then, you will be here for that secound chance. I will pray for you, and hope that God dose bless you. Because he is a very loving God, He gave his own son to die on a cross for our sins. If that is not love, then what is??

 

[Ravi]

Many atheists were once believers but were let down or really hurt and blamed God.

Is this what people in general believe about atheists? I don't think atheists stop believing out of pique, rather they stop believing because there is no evidence, not even the slightest shred, that a god exists. It's really not much different than not believing in Santa.

 

[editec]

You said that my God, Jesus Christ was a bloodthirsty prick, a god of eternal torture and human suffering, who is vain, and sadistic. May God help you. How can you say such?

Well....possibly these people are inclined to make such a charge because they read the Old Testament?

One cannot help but notice that the God described in that OT was prone to slaughtering people with whom he was displeased.

One cannot help but notice that the OT god was also an overt racist, too.

Now if one reads the New Testament, one is asked to accept that the OT God had a change of heart, and that he changed from a jealous, vengeful, racist God to become that loving, forgiving God we hear about from some Christian sects.

And what's more, if one buys the New Testaments we note that God has decided to love, not only the Hebrews, his chosen people in the OT, but apparently he decided that he loved the whole world.

"For God so love the world, that he sent his only begotten son, Jesus Christ.."

One cannot help but note that the "Judeao-Christian" God is somewhat fickle.

 

[LOki]

First I would like to say "may God forgive you!! for you truly no not what you are saying".

I know what I'm saying, I don't need forgiveness for it, and I certainly am not interested in the forgiveness of the bloodthirsty and sadistic god of eternal torture and human suffering.

You said that my God, Jesus Christ was a bloodthirsty prick, a god of eternal torture and human suffering, who is vain, and sadistic. May God help you. How can you say such?

If your Jesus, and your God are both the same being who would put someone in the pit of hell to suffer unimagiable agony for eternity, for not belieiving in Him, then your Jesus is without exception a vain, sadistic, bloodthirsty prick.

My Jesus would not do this, and may very well forgive your Jesus.

I’m not one for beating a dead horse, but you said some things here that are so untrue.

Really? Eternal torture is not the least bit sadistic? Seeking unwavering worship and punishing someone for not believing in you is in no way vanity? Open a dictionary son.

You asked me to prove that God is the creator, Your proof is your self.

I am evidence of my existence, not your god's.

Who if God did not do it, created you?

Petitio principii. It is invalid to presume the act of "creation" to establish the premise for a "creator."

Where did we all come from?

I don't know, but I'm sure that the answer is not someone's invisible white father who lives in the sky.

What about all things that are?

I don't know, but I'm sure that if a vain, sadistic, bloodthirsty prick is the answer, I'm not morally obligated to worship him.

Where did it begin? And how?

I don't know. And I don't know. But if the point of it all was to worship some vain, sadistic, bloodthirsty prick or suffer eternal torture, then this creator has created an enemy.

What about all the things that are being found by people all over the world that prove of Jesus’ walk on this earth?

I can prove Benjamin Franklin walked the earth: I'm not about to deify him for it. I'm walking the earth right now Jimmy28031, why not deify me?

But the biggest of all-- How about stuff in the bible that has already come true?

What of it? Nostradamus, and Miss Cleo demonstrated that this parlor trick is no evidence for anything but the gullibility of retards.

Not one thing in the bible can any one disprove,...

The rabbit does not chew it cud; the Bible says it does, and I can prove it doesn't. There's one thing.

The Bible say all the kingdoms of Earth can be seen from the tallest mountain--I can prove they can't. There's another.

...but there is so much that people can prove, and have already done so.

Meaningless. You can apply the same proofs to any work of historical fiction to establish validity--proving the existence of the Dead Sea, Herod, or Jesus in the Bible does not prove the existence of your god.

But here's what is meaningful: You can't prove that the events describing miracles, and the instances where God spoke directly to human beings ever happened.

There is nothing that objectively or imperically sets your mythology apart from other mythologies, such that yours is valid and the others are not

And the final proof will be when we the believers are called to heaven and the rest who did not believe even thou they new, are here for the tribulation times.

This is not proof.

Then what will you scream?

Why would I be screaming? Would it be because of the vain and sadistic will of your god?

I will give you a little advice, if you are in fact here for those troublesome times, You will have a second chance if you are living when that time comes, just do not take the mark of the beast.

Thanks for the advice. Allow me to return the favor; Don't take any wooden nickels.

That is the mark that will be enforced by the anti christ and those who reject it will not be able to buy or sell anything. No food, No homes, No cars, Nothing will you be able to obtain without that mark. So what is the mark? Some believe that it is a computer chip that will be inserted in the hand or forehead, but the number of it is 666. Whatever the mark is, and you will find out if you are here for those times, just don’t take it. Because if you do not take it, when Jesus returns after the seven years of that horrible time, those who did not take the mark and those who died in his name will be called to heaven.

You should consider the possibilty that if you have devoted your existence to the veneration and worship of the torture and murder of Jesus, that you have already accepted this "mark" of yours.

The bible dose say that there will be those who rejected Christ, but during the tribulation will know that he is God, and ask for his forgiveness, and reject that mark.

You might consider the possibility that washing yourself in the blood of human suffering makes neccessary the mercy of a loving God; it only tests the capacity of Jesus's forgiveness--it doesn't guarantee it.

Please however, don’t say that you would not be one of those who would ask for that forgiveness, because you don't know what you will do till that time comes, and I pray, if you do not change your heart by then, you will be here for that secound chance. I will pray for you, and hope that God dose bless you. Because he is a very loving God, He gave his own son to die on a cross for our sins. If that is not love, then what is??

I roundly reject your blood-thirsty and sadistic religion of human sacrifice. I am an enemy to your tyrannical god of torture and human suffering, and as promised, I'll say "NO THANK YOU" to this offer to expunge my sins in the blood of an innocent, nor shall I place upon him the burdens of sins he has not committed.

I refuse to make a sacrificial animal of any human being to your vain, sadistic, bloodthirsty...your evil god -- particularly Jesus.

How about them apples?

 

[Anguille]

First I would like to say "may God forgive you!! for you truly no not what you are saying". /QUOTE]

Jimmy, this is as far as I read. I need to continue no further into your post to "no" what you are saying, you poor deluded arrogant

 

[LOki]

Sorry I missed this...I hope you don't have the impression I was ignoring you.

LOki what in the world are you talking about? Your hate and frustration with God seems to be personal.

My hate for your god may be personal...

Many atheists were once believers but were let down or really hurt and blamed God. Totally rejecting the idea of a God, when science shows that their is a creator (Big Bang Theory) has a deeper root. The real question is WHY do you reject God?

I reject the god of torture and human misery on moral grounds. I refuse to validate the authority of a being who creates imperfect volitionals to worship him, and then refuses to accept responsiblity for the predictable consequences of such imperfection in his creation so that he can find justification to inflict eternal suffering on those who, predicably, are not perfect "believers."

If someone you kind of know or heard of tells you, don't take that street theres a bad car crash up there you will just end up in traffic, and they also offer you shelter until the storm is over, would you reject them?

I might. The salent question is, "If I should reject their offer, is that grounds for them to torture me for eternity?"

I say, "no."

Another valid question is, "If this potential host does eventually catch up to me and inflict eternal agony upon me for not accepting their hospitality, are they vain and sadistic?"

I say, "yes."

Yet another valid question is, "Does an infinite capacity to catch up to me and inflict eternal agony upon me for not accepting their hospitality, obligate me in any way to morally sanction their actions, authority, or their existence?"

I say, "no."

Final questions: "If this potential host threatens to inflict eternal agony upon me, and/or anyone-else for not accepting their hospitality, should I consider them an enemy to everyone who they make this offer to? Is this potential host evil?"

I say, "Yes, and YES!"

God is doing the same thing, telling you things that will help you later on and offering you comfort and love at the same time, if you ignore or reject him you will face the consequences later.

If your god is the god of human suffering and torture, then you and your god will face your own consequences--I will not succumb to threats. I intend to face such threats and make my stand; and if there's a god of love and mercy to protect me, I'm good with that--I'm also good with making my stand against evil alone.

Anyways, this isn't for a message board, PM me if you want to discuss this more.

Thanks.

 

[Anguille]

.

From Wiki:
Loki or Loke is a god or giant in Norse mythology. The 13th century Icelandic Poetic Edda and Prose Edda, two of the very few sources of information regarding the figure, inconsistently place him among the Æsir, as his blood-brotherhood makes him a member of Odin's family. Although frequently mentioned in 13th century Icelandic sources, it is generally believed by scholars that it is unlikely that Loki was ever worshipped

lol!

 

[LOki]

From Wiki:
Loki or Loke is a god or giant in Norse mythology. The 13th century Icelandic Poetic Edda and Prose Edda, two of the very few sources of information regarding the figure, inconsistently place him among the Æsir, as his blood-brotherhood makes him a member of Odin's family. Although frequently mentioned in 13th century Icelandic sources, it is generally believed by scholars that it is unlikely that Loki was ever worshipped

lol!

It's not because I don't answer prayers...it's because I'm honest enough to admit I don't.

 

[Shogun]

Exact same question to you. If you can ASSUME pre-bang material was just "there" with nothing making it, why can't you assume a creator was just "there"?

IM not the one ASSUMING that there is no starting point and the bang just WAS. I can freely admit that there is probably pre-bang history that resulted in the bang. Now, why don't YOU convey how we part ways in logic and admit the same about the creation of YOUR god.

 

[Shogun]

Well and the whole women are property still in Islam might not suit you as well.

is that a stone you really wanna throw, christian?

 

[MsWikia]

If your god is the god of human suffering and torture, then you and your god will face your own consequences--I will not succumb to threats. I intend to face such threats and make my stand; and if there's a god of love and mercy to protect me, I'm good with that--I'm also good with making my stand against evil alone.



Thanks.

Which God do you believe tortures people? and where did you come up with this conclusion? Have you been tortured or witnessed such torture? This is really interesting and a different viewpoint I havent heard from atheists.

 

[AllieBaba]

is that a stone you really wanna throw, christian?

Yes. Jesus cherished women and women in the bible hold positions of importance and power. Anyone who says differently is either lying or just ignorant.

 

[AllieBaba]

Which God do you believe tortures people? and where did you come up with this conclusion? Have you been tortured or witnessed such torture? This is really interesting and a different viewpoint I havent heard from atheists.

This is one of the lies perpetuated by Satan. That the things he does are actually done by God or promoted by God.

 

[MsWikia]

This is one of the lies perpetuated by Satan. That the things he does are actually done by God or promoted by God.

I agree 100% But I am trying to figure out where Loki is coming from. There is def. a deeper root to the reasoning behind his/her thought-process.

 

[LOki]

Which God do you believe tortures people?

Any that sends people to endure agony for eternity. Any that requires the sacrifice of children. Any that demands, for example, first having someone whipped, beaten, humiliated, and then nailed to a cross, before they can contemplate "forgiveness."

and where did you come up with this conclusion?

Is this good enough for you?

I know you all have a right to belive what you would like. But I do have a question for you, If, just If what the bible says is true, and there really is a God (as I do belive), And the result to your thinking of God being anything but the Lord our saviour, is forever being in the pit of hell, with pain like you have or will ever feel till that time, why would you chance that?

Shall I provide other sources, or will it suffice that you can find them for yourself?

Have you been tortured or witnessed such torture?

I don't have to. The devotionals to these (this?) gods proclaim it openly. Some vererate the suffering and torture of Jesus. Some have made holy the instrument of Jesus' torture. In fact, many proudly display effigies of Jesus' suffering in their places of worship; reserving no detail--particularly the blood, which they insist one must bathe themselves in to obtain "salvation" from their "sins."

This is really interesting and a different viewpoint I havent heard from atheists.

You presume I'm an atheist because perhaps I reject your god?

 

[Nemo Securus]

I just wanted to say that I don't undertand the hatred people have towards any religion. You may think it to be silly to believe in something you can't see, touch or smell, but is that really grounds to degrade anyone else for having beliefs. What if they are wrong? SO WHAT! All that most religions are trying to do is get humans to get a long and live peacefully. And if you do consider yourself a religious person isn't it contradiction when you get angry at another person for what they believe in? Just let it be. Be happy in your way of life, religious or not. If you are the type to put others down because of where their faith lies the maybe your not content with where you are in your own life. Not trying to sound like Mr. Rogers or anything but we are all in this thing together. Life is far too short to go on hating people over petty prejudices.

 

[Ravi]

Hey Nemo, would you mind sharing some of that?