Debate Now Do Racism, Conservatism, and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand?

[Luddly Neddite]

I have been on this board too long, I have lots of links on topic a few are at bottom. See my question to conservatives paragraph down.

But I do not think conservatives are necessarily dumb - nor anymore racist than lots of Americans - unless we define dumb outside IQ and even education. Job Stewart recently did a piece on conservatives that parallels something I wrote ten years ago. Amazing how little American conservatism (AC) has changed in all these years but that is why they are AC. Is Scalia dumb? Alito dumb? Most would claim they have gotten pretty far up the ladder to be dumb? But their arguments often lack normal human common sense imnsho. One of my most conservative relatives a physicist is very conservative, dumb? AC is rather a way of thinking, a closed minded attitude of ideology that sees everything as black and white and often hierarchical. I'll leave it there for now, I'd be curious if any conservative can formulate a counter argument. More of my assessment is in question below.

Here's a guy who at the least has defined AC, but read carefully you see the problem. The Russell Kirk Center Ten Conservative Principles by Russell Kirk

I have asked this question many times and have never received a substantive answer. Answers usually take the form of name changing or taking responsibility for something that isn't in the conservative playbook. I'll give a hint where I am coming from, I see American conservatives as people who look to a past that never was, who feel deep down a sense of loss or impending loss, someone somewhere is taking something that is rightfully theirs, and who feel if only they were granted more power all would be wonderful. This sense of the world for is a psychological mindset rather than something based in reality. This question applies to libertarians too with the difference, libertarians look to a future that never will be. So my question is, please tell me / us what a conservative or conservatism has accomplished that is good for the nation and all its people? Since most libertarians resemble conservatives you can give it try too. Please remember one thing, this is about 'conservatism' and not about other ideologies or political parties. Oppositional replies are irrelevant. Please stick to the topic question.


"The collapse of the Bush presidency, in other words, is not just due to Bush's incompetence (although his administration has been incompetent beyond belief). Nor is it a response to the president's principled lack of intellectual curiosity and pitbull refusal to admit mistakes (although those character flaws are certainly real enough). And the orgy of bribery and special-interest dispensation in Congress is not the result of Tom DeLay's ruthlessness, as impressive a bully as he was. This conservative presidency and Congress imploded, not despite their conservatism, but because of it." "Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe


"Conservatism is the theoretical voice of this animus against the agency of the subordinate classes. It provides the most consistent and profound argument as to why the lower orders should not be allowed to exercise their independent will, why they should not be allowed to govern themselves or the polity. Submission is their first duty, agency, the prerogative of the elite." Corey Robin 'The Reactionary Mind'

If you check only one link check the first one.

A Conservative Wakes Up US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Conservatism Understood Another in a series of Midcan s insights into contemporary US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I am disappointed in many of my conservative posters... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
What would happen to the United States if Conservatives left US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
What would happen to the United States if Conservatives left US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Liberal vs Conservative good vs evil US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
An honest question to conservatives. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Use this handy parable to understand politics US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

An old post still relevant.
end of democracy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Interesting point ... We all tend to call the other side"stupid, dumb" etc but really, that's not a valid criteria. Someone recently said that Ted Cruz has Obama's education but Palin's world view and made the point that THAT made Cruz dangerous to the US.

I won't say I agree with that. Nor would I agree with the oft repeated complaint from the right that liberals are too educated and therefore "elite".

But it does address that same point - that its very possible to be educated yet narrow, educated but ignorant.

Thanks for a very elucidating post, midcan5

 

[Luddly Neddite]

This was common knowledge as far back as John Stuart Mill.

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."

BUT ...

I've said it before, that I believe we are all "racist" to some extent or another.

Its just that some embrace that ignorance and others try to evolve past it.

IMO

"That was common knowledge" does not conform to the rules of the discussion.

Let us agree to define racism first.
Here is one, but I think we need to tweak it.

Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism
racism definition. The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them.

I believe it to be a basic human weakness, part and parcel of the human condition.

YMMV

 

[Roadrunner]

This was common knowledge as far back as John Stuart Mill.

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."

BUT ...

I've said it before, that I believe we are all "racist" to some extent or another.

Its just that some embrace that ignorance and others try to evolve past it.

IMO

To what extent are you racist?

What group would you deny a basic human right due to their race alone?

 

[Roadrunner]

This was common knowledge as far back as John Stuart Mill.

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."

BUT ...

I've said it before, that I believe we are all "racist" to some extent or another.

Its just that some embrace that ignorance and others try to evolve past it.

IMO

"That was common knowledge" does not conform to the rules of the discussion.

Let us agree to define racism first.
Here is one, but I think we need to tweak it.

Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism
racism definition. The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them.

I believe it to be a basic human weakness, part and parcel of the human condition.

YMMV

I have no clue what YMMV means, and want to debate, not listen to music.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

 

[Roadrunner]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

Apparently we are not going to get much intelligent analysis here.

 

[Stephanie]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

Apparently we are not going to get much intelligent analysis here.

I tried. but it hurt too much.

 

[Mertex]

Since racism is a child of "fear" and ignorance creates fear, I tend to agree that they go hand in hand.

"Since racism is a child of "fear'" is nothing but opinion.

Since racism is a child of "fear" and ignorance creates fear, I tend to agree that they go hand in hand.

"Since racism is a child of "fear'" is nothing but opinion.

The opinion of many experts. Why else would anyone be racist? If not fear, what do you think causes racism?

Racism is another word for fear.
Ignorance Fear Racism - Term Papers - Barndawg220

Before people were able to travel and experience difference groups of people, we predominantly stayed in the same kind of area with the same kind of people. We feared things that were different, and were lacked the power to face those kinds of things. All this changed once we did, in fact, obtain this level of human advancement, but the fear never drifted. The truth is, racism began as soon as people faced those of different races. We’ve always the fear of change, not to mention the unknown.
Racism and its Affect on Society Teen Essay About racism black white tolerance affects effects society lauren peterson and discrimination


Racism Is Fueled By Fear Catherine Meeks Ph.D.

You are using opinionated teen essays to back your opinion?

That is not going to work.

First, we have to define racism.

You go first.

Sounds like you don't have a valid response.
Racism Is Fueled By Fear Catherine Meeks Ph.D. is not a teen essay, so either you don't know or you don't have any idea where racism comes from, but don't try to lump all of my links into one article that I linked where I'm trying to point out that even a teenager is able to figure out that racism comes from fear.

 

[Mertex]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

Apparently we are not going to get much intelligent analysis here.

Not if all you can do is avoid responding to questions asked you when you make a comment. If you don't believe it is from fear, than at least tell us why you think there is racism. I think it could become a very interesting debate.

 

[Mertex]

NOPE. But being a liberal/democrat seems to prove that. Especially when they have to start a thread and act like they are above all those they list.

It is Black Sunday+50, a day to be sanctimonious and ignore the 50 years of progress.

they can't accept the people kicked them out of power even with their Black skinned Messiah as President. they have no one to blame but themselves. as people got sick and tired of frikken threads such a such as this and in real life

Whoa....who got kicked out of power? Seems to me that both the House and Senate folded to what the President wanted just recently, so please, do elaborate on what power you speak of.

Get on topic or leave the debate please.

I guess you are speaking to Stephanie? She's the one that got off topic.

 

[Mertex]

This was common knowledge as far back as John Stuart Mill.

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."

BUT ...

I've said it before, that I believe we are all "racist" to some extent or another.

Its just that some embrace that ignorance and others try to evolve past it.

IMO

Let's get past opinion.

And yet you haven't given an opinion nor a reason.

 

[Mertex]

As bad as you people want to be considered smart and not racist you sure need to spend a lot of time trying to convince everyone.

Who is "you people"? Sounds like one of Anne Romney's comments.

Back to the OP or out of the thread please.

Excuse me, you are not the OP. The person made a statement and I am asking him to explain it.

 

[MaryL]

It doesn't take to many IQ points to make everything a race issue, whites BAD, blacks GOOD. UGG. Cheap shots and ill thought out comments. Try again. Blacks need to try harder, not blame harder. Been there done that.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Do Racism, Conservatism, and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand?"

The majority of conservatives are persons of good faith, they follow fundamentally flawed political dogma, but most act in accordance with their own good conscience.

Among the many flaws of conservative dogma is its propensity to be attractive to ignorant racists and bigots, as well as reactionaries fearful of change and diversity. These individuals find refuge among the ranks of conservatives, where most now constitute the republican base, members of the TPM, and the social right.

 

[Roadrunner]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

Apparently we are not going to get much intelligent analysis here.

Not if all you can do is avoid responding to questions asked you when you make a comment. If you don't believe it is from fear, than at least tell us why you think there is racism. I think it could become a very interesting debate.

I am multi-tasking.

Are we discussing where racism comes from, or, the intelligence of racists?

 

[Stephanie]

"Do Racism, Conservatism, and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand?"

The majority of conservatives are persons of good faith, they follow fundamentally flawed political dogma, but most act in accordance with their own good conscience.

Among the many flaws of conservative dogma is its propensity to be attractive to ignorant racists and bigots, as well as reactionaries fearful of change and diversity. These individuals find refuge among the ranks of conservatives, where most now constitute the republican base, members of the TPM, and the social right.

really they follow fundamental FLAWED dogma. is that why you liberal/democrats got your asses kicked out of power in congress? you really need a new comedy act. no one is buying you or the ops uppity bs anymore

 

[Roadrunner]

A number of studies say "yes", but of course, the "devil is in the details", so then again, it could all be smoke and mirrors. Or, maybe not? Hmmmm......

Do Racism Conservatism and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand Psychology Today

Low IQ Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice Racism Bias Politics Right-Wing and Left-Wing Ideology

Intelligence Study Links Low I.Q. To Prejudice Racism Conservatism

Multiple Scientific Studies Confirm Extreme Conservatism Linked to Racism Low I.Q. Americans Against the Tea Party

Those FOUR links refer to an intensive study done by Hodson, & Busseri, in 2012, called: "Bright minds and dark attitudes: Lower cognitive ability predicts greater prejudice through right-wing ideology and low intergroup contact." It was published in Psychological Science, 23, 187-195.


And this study:

Are Conservatives Dumber Than Liberals - Reason.com

(though that study does not run along the same lines exactly)


And this study, from 2009-2010:

Study Are Liberals Smarter Than Conservatives - TIME





(that link is an excellent case for finding the really necessary stuff in the details... hint, hint...)

And a completely different study from 2013, actually comparing the brain sizes of people of different political orientations:

The Surprising Brain Differences Between Democrats and Republicans Mother Jones

and the direct links:

Fear as a Disposition and an Emotional State A Genetic and Environmental Approach to Out-Group Political Preferences - Hatemi - 2013 - American Journal of Political Science - Wiley Online Library

PLOS ONE Red Brain Blue Brain Evaluative Processes Differ in Democrats and Republicans

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, before anyone get's his or her dander up, go read the links. You will be surprised at the plethora of information out there, and a lot of it can be rebutted - you just need to know where to look. I have DELIBERATELY not quoted anything from the links yet, to allow others to first read from start to finish and digest the material at hand.

PS: I live in a time zone that is 6 hours ahead of New York City, so some responses on my part will be delayed.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:

1. No ad hominems. No flaming, no getting personal, no insults. Stick to the topic, not the person.
2. Dictionary definitions will prevail.
3. Claiming that you are speaking on behalf of others is absolutely forbidden.
4. What you post is de facto your opinion unless substantiated with credible links.
5. When you are asked to provide a credible link to substantiate your position you must do so or you automatically forfeit your position.
6. Links can be contested and if they can be shown to be biased they will be discounted. For this reason I already provided neutral links directly to the core data for a number of studies under the links of websites that one side may consider partisan.
7. If you are going to invoke partisan terminology then be prepared to have it called out for what it is.
8. No one is exempt from legitimate criticism - including the OP.
9. Serious debate also means taking time to formulate an answer - so this should be a slow, thoughtful thread. I don't expect a response in the first 60 minutes after the thread goes up. You will need at least that much time to actually absorb the material needed to successfully debate this statistical issue.
10. Have some fun while you are at it. That's an order. Life is short, enjoy what you do.

-Stat

I say no, they do not go hand in hand.

There have been far too many intelligent racists, from Hitler, to Stalin to Hugo Black and Robert Byrd.

 

[Roadrunner]

Since racism is a child of "fear" and ignorance creates fear, I tend to agree that they go hand in hand.

"Since racism is a child of "fear'" is nothing but opinion.

Since racism is a child of "fear" and ignorance creates fear, I tend to agree that they go hand in hand.

"Since racism is a child of "fear'" is nothing but opinion.

The opinion of many experts. Why else would anyone be racist? If not fear, what do you think causes racism?

Racism is another word for fear.
Ignorance Fear Racism - Term Papers - Barndawg220

Before people were able to travel and experience difference groups of people, we predominantly stayed in the same kind of area with the same kind of people. We feared things that were different, and were lacked the power to face those kinds of things. All this changed once we did, in fact, obtain this level of human advancement, but the fear never drifted. The truth is, racism began as soon as people faced those of different races. We’ve always the fear of change, not to mention the unknown.
Racism and its Affect on Society Teen Essay About racism black white tolerance affects effects society lauren peterson and discrimination


Racism Is Fueled By Fear Catherine Meeks Ph.D.

You are using opinionated teen essays to back your opinion?

That is not going to work.

First, we have to define racism.

You go first.

Sounds like you don't have a valid response.
Racism Is Fueled By Fear Catherine Meeks Ph.D. is not a teen essay, so either you don't know or you don't have any idea where racism comes from, but don't try to lump all of my links into one article that I linked where I'm trying to point out that even a teenager is able to figure out that racism comes from fear.

We are not discussing where racism comes from.

We are discussing whether it correlates to intelligence and conservatism.

I contend it does not.

 

[Roadrunner]

"Do Racism, Conservatism, and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand?"

The majority of conservatives are persons of good faith, they follow fundamentally flawed political dogma, but most act in accordance with their own good conscience.

Among the many flaws of conservative dogma is its propensity to be attractive to ignorant racists and bigots, as well as reactionaries fearful of change and diversity. These individuals find refuge among the ranks of conservatives, where most now constitute the republican base, members of the TPM, and the social right.

Good conscience does not correlate with IQ either.

Does anyone understand the original question?

 

[Mertex]

Intelligent people understand principles. They deal in concepts and wish to understand the whys of things. Unintelligent people do not. They simply conform to expectations.

As far as I'm concerned, there is little difference in intelligence between the right wing fundies and/or racists of the world and the left wing practitioners of political correctness. It is all about tribe with either group rather than any intelligent analysis of principles.

Apparently we are not going to get much intelligent analysis here.

Not if all you can do is avoid responding to questions asked you when you make a comment. If you don't believe it is from fear, than at least tell us why you think there is racism. I think it could become a very interesting debate.

I am multi-tasking.

Are we discussing where racism comes from, or, the intelligence of racists?

The title of the OP is "Do racism, conservatism and low IQ go hand in hand? I claimed that since racism is born out of fear, and fear comes from ignorance, that I believe they do. I believe there are some liberals with low IQ's that although they embrace liberal ideas are still racist, but most of the racist people I have ever met are mostly conservative in political ideology and not well educated. I believe their lack of knowledge makes them fearful that people of other races are going to take away something that belongs to them