Zone1 Are Humans a "Blank Slate" When Born?

[Hafar1014]

Heredity and environment are not either/or alternatives.

Its about a 30% genes 70% social interactions

 

[Hafar1014]

This is a common concept in the social/culture war between woke leftism and Mainstream/Moderate/Right wing conservatism. We see the concept in so many woke arguments, suggestions that everyone is the same and that only outside factors can account for any differences between humans.

We see this in:
1. Comparing successful people to unsuccessful people, especially financially.
2. Comparing criminals to law-abiding citizens
3. Comparing men to women and women to men, and the trans movement
4. Comparing races; white, black, asian, latino, arab, etc.

The woke's focus is so often that it had nothing to do with the person, and everything to do with an evil, corrupt, racist, sexist, etc. society. We can just interchange people across all dynamics and the outcomes would be equally different.

I don't buy that.. at all.

1. Successful people have generally great habits, ones that are tried and true, people can learn from, and should inspire others. If you do your best to do what they do from the ground up, you're more likely to succeed. That includes discipline, study, body health, etc.

2. Criminals tend to rise from single-parent households (with a mother as the single parent), and in cultures that rely on a line of victimization.

3. Men and women are very similar up until that 5% where they are completely different as far as physiology, behavioral psychology, etc.

4. Races have genetic differences but are far closer to one another than men and women.

Genes play a minor role while social experiences create our personality

 

[Hafar1014]

Yes. People are a blank slate. Potential is limitless in every human. There is something innate and undefined that determines whether or not you maximize your potential; and even at that point, no one truly maximizes their potential since there is no limit.

That being said...Skip to the part where you blame women for your misery.

The blank sate theory has been disproven for decades. Yes we all have limits some more than others. Those limits are defined by emotion and intelligence working together.
An infant as day old can make long term memory and process emotion. Thats why adoptees have so much trouble when taken form their mothers prematurely. A long term trauma memory is created called a preverbal trauma. This effects the stages of development and attachment.

How we develop our personality is based on our social experiences up to age 13. We keel learning but the foundation is there.

 

[Cassandro]

Its about a 30% genes 70% social interactions

Is that fact or opinion? I think it varies greatly among individuals, even within biological families.

 

[MarathonMike]

Its about a 30% genes 70% social interactions

I'd say it's 60% genes 40% upbringing, environment and social interactions.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

We are hardwired with certain traits and these traits guide the way we interact with the world.

 

[Hafar1014]

I'd say it's 60% genes 40% upbringing, environment and social interactions.

The reason we are shaped more by experiences is thats how we adapt to an ever changing environment. Genes cant adapt.
Alfred Adler believed that human beings are fundamentally social, with behavior driven by a desire for belonging, overcoming inferiority, and contributing to the community (social interest). His "Individual Psychology" emphasizes that personality is shaped by early social interactions, particularly family dynamics, birth order, and cooperative, rather than competitive, relationships.
Key components of Adlerian theory regarding social interactions include:

• Social Interest (Gemeinschaftsgefühl): This is the innate, yet to be developed, potential for feeling connected to humanity and acting in ways that benefit society. A high degree of social interest is considered the hallmark of mental health and maturity, reducing personal feelings of inferiority.
• The Three Life Tasks: Adler proposed that everyone faces three major social tasks: occupational tasks (work), societal tasks (friendship), and love tasks (intimacy). Success in life is determined by how one navigates these social relationships.
• Birth Order and Family: The family is the first social environment. Adler believed birth order influences personality, with firstborns often being leaders, middle children acting as negotiators, and youngest children often being pampered yet socially charming.
• Inferiority and Superiority: Individuals strive to overcome feelings of inadequacy (inferiority) by striving for significance (superiority/competence) within their social context.
• Cooperation over Competition: Adlerian therapy aims to replace selfish, maladaptive behaviors with cooperative ones. He believed that problems in life, such as addiction or crime, stem from a lack of social feeling and an inability to cooperate with others.

Adlerian psychology highlights that social connections are not just environmental factors, but central to the development of the human personality.

 

[d0gbreath]

Some people have a massive drive, others don't, and I think a problem in our society is to say the former is "good" and the latter is "bad". There are leaders and supporters in life. I'm not some CEO-driven kind of guy in the slightest. I know my limits, and I accept them. However, I cheers those who have more drive than me, those that can do more than me. It's impressive. My political opposition views it differently, and says it bullshit, unearned, and they feel attacked when others are declared to be more successful than them. They then take issue with the system rather than addressing their short-comings, and become deconstructionists to tear the system down that wronged them.

All of that is cute fun and games until you die, and become a blank slate.

 

[MarathonMike]

The reason we are shaped more by experiences is thats how we adapt to an ever changing environment. Genes cant adapt.
Alfred Adler believed that human beings are fundamentally social, with behavior driven by a desire for belonging, overcoming inferiority, and contributing to the community (social interest). His "Individual Psychology" emphasizes that personality is shaped by early social interactions, particularly family dynamics, birth order, and cooperative, rather than competitive, relationships.
Key components of Adlerian theory regarding social interactions include:

• Social Interest (Gemeinschaftsgefühl): This is the innate, yet to be developed, potential for feeling connected to humanity and acting in ways that benefit society. A high degree of social interest is considered the hallmark of mental health and maturity, reducing personal feelings of inferiority.
• The Three Life Tasks: Adler proposed that everyone faces three major social tasks: occupational tasks (work), societal tasks (friendship), and love tasks (intimacy). Success in life is determined by how one navigates these social relationships.
• Birth Order and Family: The family is the first social environment. Adler believed birth order influences personality, with firstborns often being leaders, middle children acting as negotiators, and youngest children often being pampered yet socially charming.
• Inferiority and Superiority: Individuals strive to overcome feelings of inadequacy (inferiority) by striving for significance (superiority/competence) within their social context.
• Cooperation over Competition: Adlerian therapy aims to replace selfish, maladaptive behaviors with cooperative ones. He believed that problems in life, such as addiction or crime, stem from a lack of social feeling and an inability to cooperate with others.

Adlerian psychology highlights that social connections are not just environmental factors, but central to the development of the human personality.

Psychologists have their theories, that's fine. How do you explain 5 kids raised in the same house, same parents ending up vastly as different people with vastly different life outcomes?

 

[Hafar1014]

All of that is cute fun and games until you die, and become a blank slate.

Psychologists have their theories, that's fine. How do you explain 5 kids raised in the same house, same parents ending up vastly as different people with vastly different life outcomes?

Birth order and they would have had very different experiences. Parents dont treat all their children the same way and think about how they treat each other. Lots of variability here

 

[Unkotare]

The tabula raza is disproven by familiarity with the universe a priori. I Kant explain it any more clearly than that.

 

[playtime]

for the most part, yes.

certain constructs are learned - like racism; while other aspects are innate human traits - such as empathy.

 

[Hafar1014]

for the most part, yes.

certain constructs are learned - like racism; while other aspects are innate human traits - such as empathy.

Empathy can be distorted by experiences and emotion and can be toxic. Then its enabling

 

[playtime]

Empathy can be distorted by experiences and emotion and can be toxic.

or just plain ol' humanity.

Then its enabling

elon says empathy is a weakness.

& dead charlie kirk thought that it causes damage.

i'll stick with being humane.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Are democrats retarded at conception or birth?

 

[MarathonMike]

Birth order and they would have had very different experiences. Parents dont treat all their children the same way and think about how they treat each other. Lots of variability here

Birth order? Same parents, same schools, same rules, same safe neighborhood and the five of them are COMPLETELY different. Two are my lifelong friends since childhood. There is no way birth order explains that.

 

[Leo123]

Psychologists have struggled with this question for generations, and the conclusions are fairly well known.

Genes can determine a lot of different traits, not only hair and eye color, height, and the usual things, but also intelligence and certain talents. It is generally believed that genes determine potential, but if the environment is such that development is impeded, you might not develop fully up to your potential.

The perverse thing is how kids in large families turn out significantly different, when it would appear that their genes should be similar and their environment growing up should have been very similar from one kid to another. I personally see significant differences based on how the parents evolve as they raise several kids. In my own family of 5 kids, my parents exerted less and less discipline over time. I was the youngest and I saw what was acceptable and otherwise in my older siblings , and I was basically never disciplined growing up.

I have read that identical twins can be quite different in personalities but there is also some kind of unseen connection between them so, IMO genetics and environment seem to both influence human development.

When I was young, I lived next door to a family of 9 children. I used to go over there all the time because there was always a lot of diverse things going on as compared to my family with just myself and older sister. I observed the older siblings caring for the younger ones and the parents not having to do as much for the younger children. Their main 'job' was to make sure the older siblings passed along family edicts and values and did not abuse the younger ones.

 

[OODA_Loop]

No more a blank slate than a dachshund puppy that wants to chase a ball.

 

[candycorn]

People are much-more a product of their environment than anything else. Generational occupancy in housing projects is one example....kids grew up in the slums so this becomes their "normal". Slum dwellers--not always but often--have single parent house-holds who aren't there to provide any sort of embetterment because they are too busy working (within and outside the law-- in many cases) to maintain the status quo.

No easy answers to this. One easy answer is to increase federal and state funding for inner city schools. Federal programs for mentorships, work-study programs in school (aka vocational education for inner city schools), free 2 year college courses for all Americans. For many it likely won't matter; its not limited to inner cities but there is a certain element of child whose drive (for want of a better term) will not catch fire no matter how much stoking you do but for some it will when they can see there is a different way to exist.

 

[Stryder50]

Psychologists have their theories, that's fine. How do you explain 5 kids raised in the same house, same parents ending up vastly as different people with vastly different life outcomes?

That was my experience. I and four others share some things and are opposites on others. Including the youngest who died several years ago because here life habits were not the healthiest.