Do only Christians go to heaven?

[hadit]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

 

[Mudda]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

 

[hadit]

Prove it?

You haven't proven there is a heaven so you first

Between the two of us, which openly has a belief system of faith?

I'm not standing around trying to claim that I can empirically prove the existence of Heaven, because my belief system is based on faith.

You on the other hand are saying that there is no Heaven, as if it is a provable fact. If it is, then do so.

If you can't, and you are taking it on faith alone that there is no Heaven, which means your view is no more or less valid, than my own view.

There is no empirical proof of heaven.
When there is I'll admit I was wrong

There is no evidence that a supreme being exists
When there is I will admit I was wrong

But you will never say you are wrong because no matter what evidence is given you you will refuse to believe it

That's an easy claim to make when you have not, nor has anyone else, given evidence that proves your claim.

You made a statement: There is no Heaven.

I said prove it.

You said "You go first".

Why should I go first, when I have not made a claim to you.

You said there is no Heaven. I said nothing to you before this.

You made the claim. It's your job to prove the claim. Can you prove the claim or not?

Now you are saying that you are not going to provide proof, because you supposedly have the omniscient ability to read minds, and know I would not accept proof.

That just makes you a bigot. If that is your only argument, and you consider that argument valid.... ok....

Well sir, I have proof of Heaven, but I'm not going to give it to you because I know you will just refuse to believe it.

There we go. If that's a valid argument for you, it is also a valid argument for me.

Cheers mate.

you do know that you can't prove a negative

there is no evidence that a heaven exists
there is no evidence that god or satan exist

until there is I will not believe any of them exist

There is evidence, but it is not evidence you have chosen to reject.

 

[hadit]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

How does that vain assertion relate to the question of whether Jesus claimed to be divine? If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

 

[hadit]

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because He forgave sin. He also claimed to be I am and the Alpha and Omega. He also didn't think equality with God was something to hold on to, and He said that He and the Father are one.

Face it, Jesus claimed to be God.

So if Jesus already paid for our sins on the cross, we can sin all we want now because that bill is already paid? Cool.

Interesting, but ultimately useless, leap of logic there. It has nothing to do with the topic of Jesus' divinity.

 

[hobelim]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

It is kind of funny. Some believe in aliens but not angels and other believe in angels and not aliens.

Its a real hoot!

 

[hobelim]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

 

[hadit]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

 

[hobelim]

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

In Isaiah saying that a person would come who would be called "mighty God" does not make them God and does not mean they were or are God. Anyway, the prophecy was about the future king Hezekiah. If Jesus has anything to do with this story at all is in the connection that Jesus himself made to it by referring to the bronze serpent that had become the object of idolatry until Hezekiah came, did what is right in Gods eyes, and destroyed it.

Jesus was dead for a long time before John of Patmos had any vision whatsoever. Even if Jesus claimed to be the first and the last it does not automatically have anything to do with claiming divinity.

It is well known that Jesus was the first fruits of those who are asleep, the dead.

It is also well known that he will be the last whenever he appears again, to free whoever remains in hells keeping, and raise the dead. Some will purify their minds and be refined making their robes shining white while others will understand and do nothing.

See? Nothing to do with claiming to be God, or, in other words, being insane.

 

[Andylusion]

Prove it?

You haven't proven there is a heaven so you first

Between the two of us, which openly has a belief system of faith?

I'm not standing around trying to claim that I can empirically prove the existence of Heaven, because my belief system is based on faith.

You on the other hand are saying that there is no Heaven, as if it is a provable fact. If it is, then do so.

If you can't, and you are taking it on faith alone that there is no Heaven, which means your view is no more or less valid, than my own view.

There is no empirical proof of heaven.
When there is I'll admit I was wrong

There is no evidence that a supreme being exists
When there is I will admit I was wrong

But you will never say you are wrong because no matter what evidence is given you you will refuse to believe it

That's an easy claim to make when you have not, nor has anyone else, given evidence that proves your claim.

You made a statement: There is no Heaven.

I said prove it.

You said "You go first".

Why should I go first, when I have not made a claim to you.

You said there is no Heaven. I said nothing to you before this.

You made the claim. It's your job to prove the claim. Can you prove the claim or not?

Now you are saying that you are not going to provide proof, because you supposedly have the omniscient ability to read minds, and know I would not accept proof.

That just makes you a bigot. If that is your only argument, and you consider that argument valid.... ok....

Well sir, I have proof of Heaven, but I'm not going to give it to you because I know you will just refuse to believe it.

There we go. If that's a valid argument for you, it is also a valid argument for me.

Cheers mate.

you do know that you can't prove a negative

there is no evidence that a heaven exists
there is no evidence that god or satan exist

until there is I will not believe any of them exist

That's fine. But you can't prove that it doesn't exist, so you are taking it on faith.

Did germs exist before we had microscopes? Did many people have to take it on faith they did? Can you prove your wife has never cheated on you? No. Do you take it on faith that she has not? Yes.

If you can't prove it in absolute terms, then you are no different than us who takes Heaven on faith.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

You should know this.

 

[Andylusion]

All this other stuff we can bicker over. But one thing I do know. G-d is alive in Heaven, and he does speak to his people.

If you have never heard from G-d in your life, not one time ever... you need to read 2 Corinthians 13:5, and evaluate yourself.

"Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?"

Remember when Jesus said that he would be lifted up like Moses lifted up the bronze serpent for people to turn to for healing during the time of testing in the wilderness?

Remember Jesus warning his disciple to pray to be spared the test when he found them all sleeping in Gethsemane?


Would you think it was reasonable to conclude that anyone who worships Jesus as a god has failed that test Just like everyone who turned to the statue of a serpent that God told Moses to make failed the test until Hezekiah came, the subject of a young maiden with child, did what was right in Gods eyes, and destroyed it?

If it was right in Gods eyes to destroy the bronze serpent then it was never right to turn to it for healing.


"Here lies the test; The light has come into the world but men preferred darkness to light because their deeds were evil...."

No, you are making logical leaps that are not there. You can't read into the scriptures whatever you want, only what the scriptures tell you they mean.

There is no indication that the people of Moses time, made the bronze serpent an idol. Long after that, the people made it into an idol. That's when it had to be destroyed.

This idea that if it is wrong at one point in time, means it is always wrong, is ridiculous. When you are ill, and have massive pain, OxyContin can be a great and wonderful thing. After you are healed, taking OxyContin continuously will kill your butt.

Saying that after the people abused the bronze serpent, that it was good to destroy it, means it was never a good thing to have the serpent, is ridiculous.

When G-d told the people to come and kneel at the Bronze serpent, they did exactly as he instructed, and were saved. They passed that test.

Similarly, when Jesus said everyone who comes to me will be saved, people who do exactly as he says pass the test.

 

[Mudda]

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

How does that vain assertion relate to the question of whether Jesus claimed to be divine? If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Because the only proof of what Jesus said is in the bible, which is third generation hearsay at best.

 

[Mudda]

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because He forgave sin. He also claimed to be I am and the Alpha and Omega. He also didn't think equality with God was something to hold on to, and He said that He and the Father are one.

Face it, Jesus claimed to be God.

So if Jesus already paid for our sins on the cross, we can sin all we want now because that bill is already paid? Cool.

Interesting, but ultimately useless, leap of logic there. It has nothing to do with the topic of Jesus' divinity.

If Jesus was divine, then and only then could he absolve anyone of anything. Pretty simple to grasp, no?

 

[Mudda]

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

Do you have any proof that scripture is actually what happened and what people said...? Or is it more of a wishful thinking kind of thing with you.

 

[hadit]

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

In Isaiah saying that a person would come who would be called "mighty God" does not make them God and does not mean they were or are God. Anyway, the prophecy was about the future king Hezekiah. If Jesus has anything to do with this story at all is in the connection that Jesus himself made to it by referring to the bronze serpent that had become the object of idolatry until Hezekiah came, did what is right in Gods eyes, and destroyed it.

Not sure why you're bringing that into it, since I said nothing about it.

Jesus was dead for a long time before John of Patmos had any vision whatsoever. Even if Jesus claimed to be the first and the last it does not automatically have anything to do with claiming divinity.

It is well known that Jesus was the first fruits of those who are asleep, the dead.

It is also well known that he will be the last whenever he appears again, to free whoever remains in hells keeping, and raise the dead. Some will purify their minds and be refined making their robes shining white while others will understand and do nothing.

See? Nothing to do with claiming to be God, or, in other words, being insane.

Since you seem to be unaware:

Isaiah 41:4

4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:10, 11

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Revelation 1:17,18

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus claimed one of God's titles. You may disagree with Him because it contradicts your theology, but He claimed it. Oh, and BTW, Jesus wasn't dead when John saw Him, He is alive and well.

 

[hadit]

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because He forgave sin. He also claimed to be I am and the Alpha and Omega. He also didn't think equality with God was something to hold on to, and He said that He and the Father are one.

Face it, Jesus claimed to be God.

So if Jesus already paid for our sins on the cross, we can sin all we want now because that bill is already paid? Cool.

Interesting, but ultimately useless, leap of logic there. It has nothing to do with the topic of Jesus' divinity.

If Jesus was divine, then and only then could he absolve anyone of anything. Pretty simple to grasp, no?

And true as well. Not what we were discussing, however.

 

[hadit]

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

Do you have any proof that scripture is actually what happened and what people said...? Or is it more of a wishful thinking kind of thing with you.

Do you have any proof that alien abductions are for real, or have you just decided the accounts lend credibility to the idea without solid, scientific, reproducible evidence?

 

[hadit]

Then why do you deny that Jesus claimed to be God?

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

How does that vain assertion relate to the question of whether Jesus claimed to be divine? If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Because the only proof of what Jesus said is in the bible, which is third generation hearsay at best.

You keep saying that like you actually believe it, but it's not germane to the topic.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus claimed one of God's titles. You may disagree with Him because it contradicts your theology, but He claimed it. Oh, and BTW, Jesus wasn't dead when John saw Him, He is alive and well.

At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."


revelation 19:10

 

[Mudda]

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

Do you have any proof that scripture is actually what happened and what people said...? Or is it more of a wishful thinking kind of thing with you.

Do you have any proof that alien abductions are for real, or have you just decided the accounts lend credibility to the idea without solid, scientific, reproducible evidence?

I never said that alien abductions were proven, but are much more likely than the god of the bible, but so far no real smoking gun in either case.