Do only Christians go to heaven?

[Mudda]

So that fact that your invisible being can't be replicated in a lab is proof that it exists? Your logic is so weak that I'm afraid for your sanity.

I'm not offering you proof in that statement. Perhaps that's why you're confused. Here's a question for you. Exactly what proof of God's existence would you accept? Be as specific as possible.

Yes, you are offering proof "If He were accountable to mans' demands, He would be controllable, and thus replicated in the lab" and you're saying that your invisible being can't be replicated so therefore it exists with its own free will. Which makes no sense at all. It actually shows the reverse to be truer to sane people.

I think I see where you're confused. I don't claim as proof of God's existence the fact that He can't be replicated in the lab. I'm simply stating that God, as a superior, sovereign being who is not restrained by the physical laws of the universe, does not have to to be proven by scientific testing in order to exist.

As for what proof I'd accept personally? Something tangible that proves a god. I'm agnostic, I see no real proof so far for a god but will gladly change my mind if irrefutable proof ever arises. Can't be any fairer than that.

Okay, let's use an example. Let's say you (like most of us) don't believe in UFO's and view those who do as crackpots. If you were standing in a field with no one else around and a UFO landed in front of you, a little green man came out, waved at you, then took off leaving no trace that it ever was there, would you become a UFO believer or would you doubt your own senses until they could be proven tangibly? IOW, would you insist that you actually saw a UFO or would you refuse to believe it until a scientist told you that you did? At what point would you accept something that can't be proven?

I think that UFOs are a strong possibility given all the abduction stories... The proof is not absolute yet though.

Think about what you just said there and consider this statement.

"I think that God's existence is a strong possibility given all the stories of encounters with Him... The proof is not absolute yet though."

Why would you give more credence to scientifically unverifiable stories of alien abductions than to thousands of years of stories of people encountering God throughout human history? It would seem to me that it would be more consistent to say something along the lines of what I wrote.

Why? Your invisible superbeing been abducting people?

I'm getting at what kind of proof you would accept for God's existence. Would you accept proof that only you can verify or would you deny your own experience? If you would accept as proof of the existence of UFO's a single encounter that only you witnessed and that could not be scientifically verified, would you also accept such an encounter with God? Here's what I'm getting at. People have encounters with God that are personal and scientifically unverifiable. They believe because of those encounters. You seem to mock those people for their beliefs. Thus, I am asking you if you would believe something that only you experienced that could not be verified by science. If so, why would you mock others who have done the same thing?

And how do you know that your invisible friend isn't restricted by the laws of the universe? He tell you that?

He created the universe and its laws. It stands to reason that He would not be thus restricted.

No, it's possible that your invisible friend who you think made this universe is also bound by the same laws. Admit it, it's a possibility.
So give me three examples of the best "God" encounters you've ever heard of, so I can see what you're trying to say happened.

 

[HaShev]

This topic reminds me of the
Gates of Heaven joke;
At the gates of heaven stood the gate keeper and a long line of people who had just passed away.
The first man a Baptist walks up to the gate keeper and the keeper tells him to walk down the hall to room 9, but to be very quiet walking past room 3.
The next man in line man a Jehovah's Witness walks up to the gate keeper and he tells him to walk down the hall to room 5,
but be very careful and quiet walking past room 3.
The next man in line is Jewish and is told to go to room 8, but is also told to be very quiet passing room 3.
The Jewish man being curious and inquisitve asked the keeper of the gate:
" I understand the need for seperate rooms, but why do we have to be quiet passing room 3?"
The keeper replied: "oh that's where the Catholics are and they think they are the only ones here."

 

[hadit]

Again, I am not a prophet. If I was, you would know. Have you ever read a letter or an email from a friend and thought, "It was nice to hear from them"? God speaks through His word, you do know that, right?

The question asked was if you ever saw or heard from God, not if you ever read a book about other people who heard from God.

Reading about about someone else who was kicked by a mule is not the same thing as being kicked by a mule.

You know that, right?

Which is why you need to define "heard from". If I read a letter my wife wrote to me, have I heard from her? Yes. I do not need to see her face to face or hear her physical voice to "hear from" her. If I'm watching TV, and I see a clip from a speech the president made to the nation, have I "heard from" the president?

No, not the same at all.

You know your wife and have seen and heard the president before many times. Of them you could say you heard from them even if only from a distance..How would you know if something written came from your wife or the president if you were never married or never owned a TV and couldn't tell the difference between a president and an imposter?

If you have never seen or heard from God before, you know nothing about him from direct experience and couldn't possibly know the difference between god or the figment of some crazy persons imagination even if you read an entire library filled with books about God written by experts who never heard from God either..

And therein lies the difference. When God calls, you know it. When you answer and are in relationship with Him, you hear from Him. It's not something someone on the outside can ever understand, but that every Christian in relationship with God does. When I know a letter is from my wife, I hear from her. Likewise, when I know a written message is from God, I hear from Him.

Ok.

In other words the answer to the original question about whether you have ever seen or heard from God in your entire life is no.

Thanks for the trip to mars and back again, but all you had to do was be honest.

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

 

[hobelim]

The question asked was if you ever saw or heard from God, not if you ever read a book about other people who heard from God.

Reading about about someone else who was kicked by a mule is not the same thing as being kicked by a mule.

You know that, right?

Which is why you need to define "heard from". If I read a letter my wife wrote to me, have I heard from her? Yes. I do not need to see her face to face or hear her physical voice to "hear from" her. If I'm watching TV, and I see a clip from a speech the president made to the nation, have I "heard from" the president?

No, not the same at all.

You know your wife and have seen and heard the president before many times. Of them you could say you heard from them even if only from a distance..How would you know if something written came from your wife or the president if you were never married or never owned a TV and couldn't tell the difference between a president and an imposter?

If you have never seen or heard from God before, you know nothing about him from direct experience and couldn't possibly know the difference between god or the figment of some crazy persons imagination even if you read an entire library filled with books about God written by experts who never heard from God either..

And therein lies the difference. When God calls, you know it. When you answer and are in relationship with Him, you hear from Him. It's not something someone on the outside can ever understand, but that every Christian in relationship with God does. When I know a letter is from my wife, I hear from her. Likewise, when I know a written message is from God, I hear from Him.

Ok.

In other words the answer to the original question about whether you have ever seen or heard from God in your entire life is no.

Thanks for the trip to mars and back again, but all you had to do was be honest.

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

 

[hadit]

I'm not offering you proof in that statement. Perhaps that's why you're confused. Here's a question for you. Exactly what proof of God's existence would you accept? Be as specific as possible.

Yes, you are offering proof "If He were accountable to mans' demands, He would be controllable, and thus replicated in the lab" and you're saying that your invisible being can't be replicated so therefore it exists with its own free will. Which makes no sense at all. It actually shows the reverse to be truer to sane people.

I think I see where you're confused. I don't claim as proof of God's existence the fact that He can't be replicated in the lab. I'm simply stating that God, as a superior, sovereign being who is not restrained by the physical laws of the universe, does not have to to be proven by scientific testing in order to exist.

As for what proof I'd accept personally? Something tangible that proves a god. I'm agnostic, I see no real proof so far for a god but will gladly change my mind if irrefutable proof ever arises. Can't be any fairer than that.

Okay, let's use an example. Let's say you (like most of us) don't believe in UFO's and view those who do as crackpots. If you were standing in a field with no one else around and a UFO landed in front of you, a little green man came out, waved at you, then took off leaving no trace that it ever was there, would you become a UFO believer or would you doubt your own senses until they could be proven tangibly? IOW, would you insist that you actually saw a UFO or would you refuse to believe it until a scientist told you that you did? At what point would you accept something that can't be proven?

I think that UFOs are a strong possibility given all the abduction stories... The proof is not absolute yet though.

Think about what you just said there and consider this statement.

"I think that God's existence is a strong possibility given all the stories of encounters with Him... The proof is not absolute yet though."

Why would you give more credence to scientifically unverifiable stories of alien abductions than to thousands of years of stories of people encountering God throughout human history? It would seem to me that it would be more consistent to say something along the lines of what I wrote.

Why? Your invisible superbeing been abducting people?

I'm getting at what kind of proof you would accept for God's existence. Would you accept proof that only you can verify or would you deny your own experience? If you would accept as proof of the existence of UFO's a single encounter that only you witnessed and that could not be scientifically verified, would you also accept such an encounter with God? Here's what I'm getting at. People have encounters with God that are personal and scientifically unverifiable. They believe because of those encounters. You seem to mock those people for their beliefs. Thus, I am asking you if you would believe something that only you experienced that could not be verified by science. If so, why would you mock others who have done the same thing?

And how do you know that your invisible friend isn't restricted by the laws of the universe? He tell you that?

He created the universe and its laws. It stands to reason that He would not be thus restricted.

No, it's possible that your invisible friend who you think made this universe is also bound by the same laws. Admit it, it's a possibility.

It is not unless He chooses to limit Himself.

So give me three examples of the best "God" encounters you've ever heard of, so I can see what you're trying to say happened.

Okay, from the Bible itself:

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

If you're willing to grant credibility to UFO abduction stories, this is a convincing encounter with the resurrected Jesus, who appeared multiple times after His death and resurrection.

Youtube is loaded with testimonies from people who encountered God. Here's one.



Here's another.



I focus on Muslims' encounters with Jesus because they have a very powerful incentive to deny such encounters. Remember, to convert from Islam to Christianity is to be apostate, which carries the death penalty. If you honestly are curious about God encounters and not just trying to disprove God's existence, Google it or look on Youtube. You'll find more people who encountered God than claim they were abducted by aliens. Now, keep in mind that you are willing to lend credibility to alien abduction because of the stories, so I will not accept "They're all lying" as a good reason to discount all of these.

 

[hadit]

Which is why you need to define "heard from". If I read a letter my wife wrote to me, have I heard from her? Yes. I do not need to see her face to face or hear her physical voice to "hear from" her. If I'm watching TV, and I see a clip from a speech the president made to the nation, have I "heard from" the president?

No, not the same at all.

You know your wife and have seen and heard the president before many times. Of them you could say you heard from them even if only from a distance..How would you know if something written came from your wife or the president if you were never married or never owned a TV and couldn't tell the difference between a president and an imposter?

If you have never seen or heard from God before, you know nothing about him from direct experience and couldn't possibly know the difference between god or the figment of some crazy persons imagination even if you read an entire library filled with books about God written by experts who never heard from God either..

And therein lies the difference. When God calls, you know it. When you answer and are in relationship with Him, you hear from Him. It's not something someone on the outside can ever understand, but that every Christian in relationship with God does. When I know a letter is from my wife, I hear from her. Likewise, when I know a written message is from God, I hear from Him.

Ok.

In other words the answer to the original question about whether you have ever seen or heard from God in your entire life is no.

Thanks for the trip to mars and back again, but all you had to do was be honest.

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Are Christians the only ones accepted into heaven? - Interesting read (includes Bible verses)
"Classical evangelical doctrine holds that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus Christ, and that those without such faith will be condemned to hell. A number of texts are typically cited in support of this position."

So a good person who is an atheist goes to hell, but a Christian who commits crimes and murders people can go to heaven?
Please discuss. Is accepting Jesus Christ the only way to go to Heaven?

Yes.

 

[Mudda]

Yes, you are offering proof "If He were accountable to mans' demands, He would be controllable, and thus replicated in the lab" and you're saying that your invisible being can't be replicated so therefore it exists with its own free will. Which makes no sense at all. It actually shows the reverse to be truer to sane people.

I think I see where you're confused. I don't claim as proof of God's existence the fact that He can't be replicated in the lab. I'm simply stating that God, as a superior, sovereign being who is not restrained by the physical laws of the universe, does not have to to be proven by scientific testing in order to exist.

As for what proof I'd accept personally? Something tangible that proves a god. I'm agnostic, I see no real proof so far for a god but will gladly change my mind if irrefutable proof ever arises. Can't be any fairer than that.

Okay, let's use an example. Let's say you (like most of us) don't believe in UFO's and view those who do as crackpots. If you were standing in a field with no one else around and a UFO landed in front of you, a little green man came out, waved at you, then took off leaving no trace that it ever was there, would you become a UFO believer or would you doubt your own senses until they could be proven tangibly? IOW, would you insist that you actually saw a UFO or would you refuse to believe it until a scientist told you that you did? At what point would you accept something that can't be proven?

I think that UFOs are a strong possibility given all the abduction stories... The proof is not absolute yet though.

Think about what you just said there and consider this statement.

"I think that God's existence is a strong possibility given all the stories of encounters with Him... The proof is not absolute yet though."

Why would you give more credence to scientifically unverifiable stories of alien abductions than to thousands of years of stories of people encountering God throughout human history? It would seem to me that it would be more consistent to say something along the lines of what I wrote.

Why? Your invisible superbeing been abducting people?

I'm getting at what kind of proof you would accept for God's existence. Would you accept proof that only you can verify or would you deny your own experience? If you would accept as proof of the existence of UFO's a single encounter that only you witnessed and that could not be scientifically verified, would you also accept such an encounter with God? Here's what I'm getting at. People have encounters with God that are personal and scientifically unverifiable. They believe because of those encounters. You seem to mock those people for their beliefs. Thus, I am asking you if you would believe something that only you experienced that could not be verified by science. If so, why would you mock others who have done the same thing?

And how do you know that your invisible friend isn't restricted by the laws of the universe? He tell you that?

He created the universe and its laws. It stands to reason that He would not be thus restricted.

No, it's possible that your invisible friend who you think made this universe is also bound by the same laws. Admit it, it's a possibility.

It is not unless He chooses to limit Himself.

So give me three examples of the best "God" encounters you've ever heard of, so I can see what you're trying to say happened.

Okay, from the Bible itself:

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

If you're willing to grant credibility to UFO abduction stories, this is a convincing encounter with the resurrected Jesus, who appeared multiple times after His death and resurrection.

Youtube is loaded with testimonies from people who encountered God. Here's one.



Here's another.



I focus on Muslims' encounters with Jesus because they have a very powerful incentive to deny such encounters. Remember, to convert from Islam to Christianity is to be apostate, which carries the death penalty. If you honestly are curious about God encounters and not just trying to disprove God's existence, Google it or look on Youtube. You'll find more people who encountered God than claim they were abducted by aliens. Now, keep in mind that you are willing to lend credibility to alien abduction because of the stories, so I will not accept "They're all lying" as a good reason to discount all of these.

1) The bible is third-hand hearsay.
2) People coming back from near a death experience might be only experiencing what their brain is conditioned to show them. Sort of like wishful thinking that hasn't yet been proven otherwise.
3) That guy is a fucking fool, lol. He read the koran every 10 days and has totally ZERO cred. He's laughable.

Got anything more credible?

And you have zero proof that your god isn't restrained by the laws of this universe. Nothing at all to point to that.

 

[hadit]

I think I see where you're confused. I don't claim as proof of God's existence the fact that He can't be replicated in the lab. I'm simply stating that God, as a superior, sovereign being who is not restrained by the physical laws of the universe, does not have to to be proven by scientific testing in order to exist.

Okay, let's use an example. Let's say you (like most of us) don't believe in UFO's and view those who do as crackpots. If you were standing in a field with no one else around and a UFO landed in front of you, a little green man came out, waved at you, then took off leaving no trace that it ever was there, would you become a UFO believer or would you doubt your own senses until they could be proven tangibly? IOW, would you insist that you actually saw a UFO or would you refuse to believe it until a scientist told you that you did? At what point would you accept something that can't be proven?

I think that UFOs are a strong possibility given all the abduction stories... The proof is not absolute yet though.

Think about what you just said there and consider this statement.

"I think that God's existence is a strong possibility given all the stories of encounters with Him... The proof is not absolute yet though."

Why would you give more credence to scientifically unverifiable stories of alien abductions than to thousands of years of stories of people encountering God throughout human history? It would seem to me that it would be more consistent to say something along the lines of what I wrote.

Why? Your invisible superbeing been abducting people?

I'm getting at what kind of proof you would accept for God's existence. Would you accept proof that only you can verify or would you deny your own experience? If you would accept as proof of the existence of UFO's a single encounter that only you witnessed and that could not be scientifically verified, would you also accept such an encounter with God? Here's what I'm getting at. People have encounters with God that are personal and scientifically unverifiable. They believe because of those encounters. You seem to mock those people for their beliefs. Thus, I am asking you if you would believe something that only you experienced that could not be verified by science. If so, why would you mock others who have done the same thing?

And how do you know that your invisible friend isn't restricted by the laws of the universe? He tell you that?

He created the universe and its laws. It stands to reason that He would not be thus restricted.

No, it's possible that your invisible friend who you think made this universe is also bound by the same laws. Admit it, it's a possibility.

It is not unless He chooses to limit Himself.

So give me three examples of the best "God" encounters you've ever heard of, so I can see what you're trying to say happened.

Okay, from the Bible itself:

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

If you're willing to grant credibility to UFO abduction stories, this is a convincing encounter with the resurrected Jesus, who appeared multiple times after His death and resurrection.

Youtube is loaded with testimonies from people who encountered God. Here's one.



Here's another.



I focus on Muslims' encounters with Jesus because they have a very powerful incentive to deny such encounters. Remember, to convert from Islam to Christianity is to be apostate, which carries the death penalty. If you honestly are curious about God encounters and not just trying to disprove God's existence, Google it or look on Youtube. You'll find more people who encountered God than claim they were abducted by aliens. Now, keep in mind that you are willing to lend credibility to alien abduction because of the stories, so I will not accept "They're all lying" as a good reason to discount all of these.

1) The bible is third-hand hearsay.
2) People coming back from near a death experience might be only experiencing what their brain is conditioned to show them. Sort of like wishful thinking that hasn't yet been proven otherwise.
3) That guy is a fucking fool, lol. He read the koran every 10 days and has totally ZERO cred. He's laughable.

Got anything more credible?

And you have zero proof that your god isn't restrained by the laws of this universe. Nothing at all to point to that.

Yet people who claim to have been abducted by aliens are credible?

 

[hobelim]

No, not the same at all.

You know your wife and have seen and heard the president before many times. Of them you could say you heard from them even if only from a distance..How would you know if something written came from your wife or the president if you were never married or never owned a TV and couldn't tell the difference between a president and an imposter?

If you have never seen or heard from God before, you know nothing about him from direct experience and couldn't possibly know the difference between god or the figment of some crazy persons imagination even if you read an entire library filled with books about God written by experts who never heard from God either..

And therein lies the difference. When God calls, you know it. When you answer and are in relationship with Him, you hear from Him. It's not something someone on the outside can ever understand, but that every Christian in relationship with God does. When I know a letter is from my wife, I hear from her. Likewise, when I know a written message is from God, I hear from Him.

Ok.

In other words the answer to the original question about whether you have ever seen or heard from God in your entire life is no.

Thanks for the trip to mars and back again, but all you had to do was be honest.

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:20

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

 

[hadit]

And therein lies the difference. When God calls, you know it. When you answer and are in relationship with Him, you hear from Him. It's not something someone on the outside can ever understand, but that every Christian in relationship with God does. When I know a letter is from my wife, I hear from her. Likewise, when I know a written message is from God, I hear from Him.

Ok.

In other words the answer to the original question about whether you have ever seen or heard from God in your entire life is no.

Thanks for the trip to mars and back again, but all you had to do was be honest.

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

 

[Mudda]

I think that UFOs are a strong possibility given all the abduction stories... The proof is not absolute yet though.

Think about what you just said there and consider this statement.

"I think that God's existence is a strong possibility given all the stories of encounters with Him... The proof is not absolute yet though."

Why would you give more credence to scientifically unverifiable stories of alien abductions than to thousands of years of stories of people encountering God throughout human history? It would seem to me that it would be more consistent to say something along the lines of what I wrote.

Why? Your invisible superbeing been abducting people?

I'm getting at what kind of proof you would accept for God's existence. Would you accept proof that only you can verify or would you deny your own experience? If you would accept as proof of the existence of UFO's a single encounter that only you witnessed and that could not be scientifically verified, would you also accept such an encounter with God? Here's what I'm getting at. People have encounters with God that are personal and scientifically unverifiable. They believe because of those encounters. You seem to mock those people for their beliefs. Thus, I am asking you if you would believe something that only you experienced that could not be verified by science. If so, why would you mock others who have done the same thing?

And how do you know that your invisible friend isn't restricted by the laws of the universe? He tell you that?

He created the universe and its laws. It stands to reason that He would not be thus restricted.

No, it's possible that your invisible friend who you think made this universe is also bound by the same laws. Admit it, it's a possibility.

It is not unless He chooses to limit Himself.

So give me three examples of the best "God" encounters you've ever heard of, so I can see what you're trying to say happened.

Okay, from the Bible itself:

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

If you're willing to grant credibility to UFO abduction stories, this is a convincing encounter with the resurrected Jesus, who appeared multiple times after His death and resurrection.

Youtube is loaded with testimonies from people who encountered God. Here's one.



Here's another.



I focus on Muslims' encounters with Jesus because they have a very powerful incentive to deny such encounters. Remember, to convert from Islam to Christianity is to be apostate, which carries the death penalty. If you honestly are curious about God encounters and not just trying to disprove God's existence, Google it or look on Youtube. You'll find more people who encountered God than claim they were abducted by aliens. Now, keep in mind that you are willing to lend credibility to alien abduction because of the stories, so I will not accept "They're all lying" as a good reason to discount all of these.

1) The bible is third-hand hearsay.
2) People coming back from near a death experience might be only experiencing what their brain is conditioned to show them. Sort of like wishful thinking that hasn't yet been proven otherwise.
3) That guy is a fucking fool, lol. He read the koran every 10 days and has totally ZERO cred. He's laughable.

Got anything more credible?

And you have zero proof that your god isn't restrained by the laws of this universe. Nothing at all to point to that.

Yet people who claim to have been abducted by aliens are credible?

Way more credible than the nonsense you just put forward.

 

[hobelim]

Ok.

In other words the answer to the original question about whether you have ever seen or heard from God in your entire life is no.

Thanks for the trip to mars and back again, but all you had to do was be honest.

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

 

[hadit]

Think about what you just said there and consider this statement.

"I think that God's existence is a strong possibility given all the stories of encounters with Him... The proof is not absolute yet though."

Why would you give more credence to scientifically unverifiable stories of alien abductions than to thousands of years of stories of people encountering God throughout human history? It would seem to me that it would be more consistent to say something along the lines of what I wrote.

I'm getting at what kind of proof you would accept for God's existence. Would you accept proof that only you can verify or would you deny your own experience? If you would accept as proof of the existence of UFO's a single encounter that only you witnessed and that could not be scientifically verified, would you also accept such an encounter with God? Here's what I'm getting at. People have encounters with God that are personal and scientifically unverifiable. They believe because of those encounters. You seem to mock those people for their beliefs. Thus, I am asking you if you would believe something that only you experienced that could not be verified by science. If so, why would you mock others who have done the same thing?

He created the universe and its laws. It stands to reason that He would not be thus restricted.

No, it's possible that your invisible friend who you think made this universe is also bound by the same laws. Admit it, it's a possibility.

It is not unless He chooses to limit Himself.

So give me three examples of the best "God" encounters you've ever heard of, so I can see what you're trying to say happened.

Okay, from the Bible itself:

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

If you're willing to grant credibility to UFO abduction stories, this is a convincing encounter with the resurrected Jesus, who appeared multiple times after His death and resurrection.

Youtube is loaded with testimonies from people who encountered God. Here's one.



Here's another.



I focus on Muslims' encounters with Jesus because they have a very powerful incentive to deny such encounters. Remember, to convert from Islam to Christianity is to be apostate, which carries the death penalty. If you honestly are curious about God encounters and not just trying to disprove God's existence, Google it or look on Youtube. You'll find more people who encountered God than claim they were abducted by aliens. Now, keep in mind that you are willing to lend credibility to alien abduction because of the stories, so I will not accept "They're all lying" as a good reason to discount all of these.

1) The bible is third-hand hearsay.
2) People coming back from near a death experience might be only experiencing what their brain is conditioned to show them. Sort of like wishful thinking that hasn't yet been proven otherwise.
3) That guy is a fucking fool, lol. He read the koran every 10 days and has totally ZERO cred. He's laughable.

Got anything more credible?

And you have zero proof that your god isn't restrained by the laws of this universe. Nothing at all to point to that.

Yet people who claim to have been abducted by aliens are credible?

Way more credible than the nonsense you just put forward.

And just as verifiable. You give them more credibility because you want to believe them and don't want to believe those who have encountered God.

 

[hadit]

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because He forgave sin. He also claimed to be I am and the Alpha and Omega. He also didn't think equality with God was something to hold on to, and He said that He and the Father are one.

Face it, Jesus claimed to be God.

 

[hobelim]

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because He forgave sin. He also claimed to be I am and the Alpha and Omega.

Face it, Jesus claimed to be God.

If I thought that Jesus claimed to be God I would join Hashev and his merry band of pranksters.

I would openly reject anything that he allegedly said as the inane ramblings of a lunatic mind.


You might as well be a follower of Caesar who actually did claim to be a living god.

 

[Weatherman2020]

See, this is why I insisted that you define "heard from". I have not heard voices in my head and I have not seen apparitions. I have, however, heard from God.

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Is that from the Yougottabekidding translation?

 

[hadit]

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because He forgave sin. He also claimed to be I am and the Alpha and Omega.

Face it, Jesus claimed to be God.

If I thought that Jesus claimed to be God I would join Hashev and his merry band of pranksters.

I would openly reject anything that he allegedly said as the inane ramblings of a lunatic mind.


You might as well be a follower of Caesar who actually did claim to be a living god.

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

 

[hadit]

No, you read a book that clearly condemns what you do as an expression of religious devotion.

Either you do not have ears to hear what is clearly written or your devotion to idolatry and rebellion against the Law of God is a deliberate choice.

Again you seem desperate to deny the divinity of Yeshua. You must hold very strongly to that deception.

Desperate? I don't think so. Jesus never claimed divinity. If he did he was either a false prophet or insane. I provided to you a quotation from Jesus himself that shows that he neither thought of himself as God nor claimed to be God..John 17:10

The religion that you belong to take three sentences out of context without applying the logic of a grade school child to make the false claim that Jesus was God in the flesh which desecrates his teaching and brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among intelligent people.

One would have to throw the entire teaching of the law and the prophets, not to mention logic and reason, in the trash to swallow your deception.

There never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Who can forgive sin but God Himself? Jesus did.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega? In Isaiah, it's God Himself. Jesus is as well.
Who is the I am? To Moses, it is God Himself. Jesus is as well.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Did that make them God too?



C'mon Hadit, its time to fold and go home before you lose it all.

You are out of chips and you have no credit and Im not interested in your pocket watch or owning your soul.

The apostles were given the power to forgive or condemn.

Is that from the Yougottabekidding translation?

The only thing that even comes close is that passage in Matthew 16 and again in 18. Neither one says they have the power to forgive or condemn.

 

[hobelim]

Then you have a problem with Scripture.

Nah, scripture and I get along perfectly.

You seem to the one having a problem......