Do liberals even like this country?

[JoeNormal]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

 

[JoeNormal]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are kidding right. Were you here when NAFTA went in...as far as foreign truck drivers are concerned, that ship has sailed.

Then you should tell that to Ray because he is a truck driver.
He is pissed immigrants taking over American jobs but he support Trump hiring foreigners. This is beyond me.

WINNING: 30% More Illegals Going Home in 2017 - Breitbart

Arrests Of Undocumented Immigrants Climbing In North Texas

Reps. McCaul, Goodlatte: Better border security and immigration enforcement is on the way

That's very funny Ray.
What is your links has anything to do with you supporting bringing in foreign workers?


Read this link to update yourself.
Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump

Okay, I read it, the question is did you?

As the article points out, deportations have nothing to do with Trump, they have to do with the courts. Speaking of which, the Trump administration added 25 new courts to speed up deportations and plan on adding another 25 for a total of 50 new courts.

And as the article also points out, deportations were up since Trump took office up until July where it fell a bit.

So Trump is looking to improve on the system just like Dumbama used his time to free up criminal illegals sitting in jail.

You are trying to deflect but it's not working.
So let me ask you again.
What is your link and the deportation crap that you are taking about---- Has anything to do with you supporting foreign workers that take over American jobs?
How come you can never answer a simple question?

Are you being hypocrite again or playing dumb or stupid?

Well I guess I don't respond to extremely stupid and dumb questions like you ask, and that's why ignore them.

If you can't figure out where my stance is on immigration, then it's your stupidity that's preventing you from understanding.

And before you bring up Trump again, Trump will be glad to hire American workers if they apply, but they don't. And in keeping with competition, either the entire system needs to be changed or companies will always look to produce products or services cheaper (or equal to) than their competition.

The real problem we have with industry is they are competing against our government socialist programs. Why work when you can sit at home getting fat on food stamps and talking on your Obama phone? HUD will get you an apartment or house in the suburbs, you can have as large of a family as you want, and you don't even have to pay for your utilities or medical care. Why work?

Even people on these programs may work, but they make sure to keep their income down so they don't lose any of their government goodies. So instead of working more hours at a low paying job, they seek to find better paying jobs and work less hours.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

 

[JoeNormal]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Yet you would be the first to complain if there were regulations preventing that first company from moving.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Yet you would be the first to complain if there were regulations preventing that first company from moving.

Sure I would be the first to complain. If our government ever went so far left that they had the ability to force companies to stay within our borders, we would then be under dictatorship rule or Communism.

 

[JoeNormal]

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Yet you would be the first to complain if there were regulations preventing that first company from moving.

Sure I would be the first to complain. If our government ever went so far left that they had the ability to force companies to stay within our borders, we would then be under dictatorship rule or Communism.

That is simpleminded in the extreme. In many cases, the government gives the intellectual property of funded laboratories to base technologies and products in many fields. In other cases, they stabilize regions where raw materials that they need are found. They've provided the infrastructure that has given them an educated workforce, transportation and communication, power grid etc without which they'd have never gotten off the ground.

So what is it again that you love about this country?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Yet you would be the first to complain if there were regulations preventing that first company from moving.

Sure I would be the first to complain. If our government ever went so far left that they had the ability to force companies to stay within our borders, we would then be under dictatorship rule or Communism.

That is simpleminded in the extreme. In many cases, the government gives the intellectual property of funded laboratories to base technologies and products in many fields. In other cases, they stabilize regions where raw materials that they need are found. They've provided the infrastructure that has given them an educated workforce, transportation and communication, power grid etc without which they'd have never gotten off the ground.

So what is it again that you love about this country?

Government doesn't fund laboratories for businesses to produce technology and products. If anything, government regulates them costing more money. And there are very few places our government has stabilized to obtain resources.

Businesses pay their own way whether you like it or not. That's why cities and states offer tax abatements to keep or draw new businesses to the area. Those new businesses bring in a ton of cash to the city or state, and they pay way more than their fair share for infrastructure and education.

Sorry, you didn't build that.

 

[JoeNormal]

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Yet you would be the first to complain if there were regulations preventing that first company from moving.

Sure I would be the first to complain. If our government ever went so far left that they had the ability to force companies to stay within our borders, we would then be under dictatorship rule or Communism.

That is simpleminded in the extreme. In many cases, the government gives the intellectual property of funded laboratories to base technologies and products in many fields. In other cases, they stabilize regions where raw materials that they need are found. They've provided the infrastructure that has given them an educated workforce, transportation and communication, power grid etc without which they'd have never gotten off the ground.

So what is it again that you love about this country?

Government doesn't fund laboratories for businesses to produce technology and products. If anything, government regulates them costing more money. And there are very few places our government has stabilized to obtain resources.

Businesses pay their own way whether you like it or not. That's why cities and states offer tax abatements to keep or draw new businesses to the area. Those new businesses bring in a ton of cash to the city or state, and they pay way more than their fair share for infrastructure and education.

Sorry, you didn't build that.

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[The Derp]

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

OK, so that's a load of bullshit. Britain's health outcomes are way better than ours; life expectancy, infant mortality, rates of heart disease, and cost per patient all blow our shit out of the water. We spend nearly twice as much per person Britain does on health care, and don't get better outcomes. I have never heard of Britain's NHS denying people health care because of tobacco use (half that ******* country smokes, ever been there????) or obesity. You threw in "bad genetics", but what do you mean by that? I get the sense you're talking out of your rear end on this.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

No, they became #1 because they pay their workers like shit, and we pick up that tab. Walmart made $14B in profit last year, yet Walmart workers cost American taxpayers $6B in welfare. So we subsidize nearly half of Walmart's profits because they pay their workers like shit. That's how they got to #1. Not because they offer anything worthwhile (they're just a retailer), but because we subsidize their profits by providing welfare to their under-paid workers.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country.

******* bullshit there too! No union helped move an $18/hr job from Ohio to China where workers get $18/day. That's all about corporate greed. Unions have nothing to do with that. You seem to be arguing that in order to keep jobs, we should accept the same wage that workers in third world nations get. Is that what you truly believe? Because that's the only way to bring the jobs back...by paying American workers the same wage they pay Chinese workers, and reduce standards to the same conditions of that in third world nations. Is that what you think? That American workers should work for the same wages those in China work for? Really?

Government regulations too are no help.

What specific regulation? Do you have an example? Do you mean those awful government regulations that make workplaces safe? Or the awful government regulation of having to make buildings wheelchair-accessible? What the holy **** regulations are you talking about???? Because frankly, your arguments sound like they came right from your ass. I think you think you can skirt by on just vaguely referring to "regulations" because you don't want to do the hard work of identifying those regulations you find so onerous, and justifying their removal despite the negative consequences of doing so. Admit it...that's what you're about, right? Too lazy to do the work so you sloppily cobble together a perspective from shit.

And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

Bullshit. I think you're lying your ass off about this. All Conservatives do this; they make up imaginary people to justify their shitty arguments that have no factual support. So you make people up in order to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have. Thing is, you know you do this. It has to be a conscious choice. So why are you making that choice?

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Again, that's bullshit. Outsourcing jobs is purely, 100% about increasing profit margins and nothing more. It's not about lowering product costs to consumers...PLEASE! Who ******* believes that shit? Nike has outsourced its sneaker manufacturing for decades, are the price of Nike sneakers now lower? **** no. So what the holy **** are you talking about??? You're just pulling this shit from your ass, right?

 

[rightwinger]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

I once met a guy from England at a national park. We started to talk about healthcare and I told him how my wife had had a heat procedure and the stack of bills I had to deal with was a half inch thick and I had to dispute about a third of them. My out of pocket was just under $15,000
He told me he had heart surgery the year before, he showed his insurance card and never saw a bill

 

[initforme]

Blaming unions is childish. Any worker who simply works hard for a lie wage is a file...an idiot and I GUARANTEE the management laughs massively at them. These words are to live by...."Pretend to pay me I pretend to work." Higher pay equals higher productivity. Lower pay should and does equal lower productivity. Irrefutable.

 

[initforme]

What ray is basically saying is a good worker shoukd stick it to his employer by leaving for higher pay at a whims notice. I agree. Two weeks notice is too much....Two days is enough. It is and should be an adversarial relationship. That's how America operates in the business world. FACT.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

I once met a guy from England at a national park. We started to talk about healthcare and I told him how my wife had had a heat procedure and the stack of bills I had to deal with was a half inch thick and I had to dispute about a third of them. My out of pocket was just under $15,000
He told me he had heart surgery the year before, he showed his insurance card and never saw a bill

Show me a healthcare system that is perfect. Don't believe everything you hear or read, they all have their own problems just like ours.

For example we get a lot of truck drivers that deliver and pickup here from Canada. The younger and middle-aged drivers always bragged about the Canadian system. The older drivers advised me to keep what we have, or we will be sorry when we get older and have more serious medical issues.

Cutting costs is governments way of handling the problem. We've seen similar problems with our government systems like Medicaid, Medicare, the VA and so on. Canada uses cancer drugs we stopped using over 20 years ago because we have more effective medications now. Our northern hospitals here are loaded with Canadian patients.

Not saying our system is perfect ether. Yes, we have our problems, and yes, trying to deal with medical costs are no different than governments who have to deal with theirs. It's a problem all over.

 

[initforme]

The problem will NEVER be solved.....And just think...it isn't all that complicated.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, they became #1 because they pay their workers like shit, and we pick up that tab. Walmart made $14B in profit last year, yet Walmart workers cost American taxpayers $6B in welfare. So we subsidize nearly half of Walmart's profits because they pay their workers like shit. That's how they got to #1. Not because they offer anything worthwhile (they're just a retailer), but because we subsidize their profits by providing welfare to their under-paid workers.

Walmart pays their workers no less than similar stores like Target or K-Mart. You've been brainwashed by the left to believe that Walmart is somehow different. They are not.

Walmart offers employees the best shot at advancement. I knew one person who left his industry job to work at Walmart full time. He was part-time making extra money, but they offered him a management position that had better pay and medical benefits. Speaking of which......

The Democrats have you hypnotized on shelf stockers and floor sweepers. The truth is Walmart treats their management very well, they treat their office personnel very well, their warehouse people do great, and so do Walmart truck drivers.

If you believe we are subsidizing Walmart workers, vote conservative, because Walmart doesn't control our social programs--government does. Walmart has nothing to do with it.

******* bullshit there too! No union helped move an $18/hr job from Ohio to China where workers get $18/day. That's all about corporate greed. Unions have nothing to do with that. You seem to be arguing that in order to keep jobs, we should accept the same wage that workers in third world nations get. Is that what you truly believe? Because that's the only way to bring the jobs back...by paying American workers the same wage they pay Chinese workers, and reduce standards to the same conditions of that in third world nations. Is that what you think? That American workers should work for the same wages those in China work for? Really?

I never said that. What I said is that unions out priced us in the world market. Back in the day, when unions got American workers a dollar more an hour, other countries went up three cents. The next year the same, and the next year the same........

When a business decides (or is forced) to move overseas, they have to calculate transportation costs back to the US and other places. While the Chinese workers make a pittance compared to US workers, transportation costs eat up a lot of that savings. If they are a multinational company and serve other countries outside of the US, their new location may cost them even more money.

For instance, when I get a call to go to a container company and pick up freight, I have to transport that freight to a warehouse somewhere. Prior to that, the freight came in on a boat which had to be counted and checked in. A container driver had to haul that freight to the container port. Paperwork has to be processed. After I drop off the freight to a warehouse, some company has to pickup that freight to deliver to the stores or businesses for other processing work.

What specific regulation? Do you have an example? Do you mean those awful government regulations that make workplaces safe? Or the awful government regulation of having to make buildings wheelchair-accessible? What the holy **** regulations are you talking about???? Because frankly, your arguments sound like they came right from your ass. I think you think you can skirt by on just vaguely referring to "regulations" because you don't want to do the hard work of identifying those regulations you find so onerous, and justifying their removal despite the negative consequences of doing so. Admit it...that's what you're about, right? Too lazy to do the work so you sloppily cobble together a perspective from shit.

Red Tape Rising 2016: Obama Regs Top $100 Billion Annually

Small businesses hope to see Obama-backed rules scrapped

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/econ...s-small-businesses-with-excessive-regulations

Again, that's bullshit. Outsourcing jobs is purely, 100% about increasing profit margins and nothing more. It's not about lowering product costs to consumers...PLEASE! Who ******* believes that shit? Nike has outsourced its sneaker manufacturing for decades, are the price of Nike sneakers now lower? **** no. So what the holy **** are you talking about??? You're just pulling this shit from your ass, right?

No, I'm trying to explain to you how business works.

Companies are not all in cahoots with each other, they compete against each other. They try to out beat each other out to get customers.

Outsourcing is only a part of the problem. The larger problem is automation. Robots and industrial equipment keeps coming down in price while labor keeps going up. Like outsourcing, eventually it comes down to cheaper labor by investing in automation.

Automation doesn't ask for raises. Automation doesn't fall under Commie Care. Automation doesn't complain or ask for days off. Automation works 24/7.

Do businesses try to create more profit? Yes they do, but it's not a dollar factor, it's a growth factor.

Businesses (especially large ones) depend on investors to keep their business running. Example: let's say that you ran across a small fortune: a lottery ticket, a wealthy relative dying, a lawsuit. Now everything you have is paid for, so the only smart thing to do would be to invest your money.

But you know nothing about investments, so you seek help. You want something safe, something that has reasonable growth, and something that is long term.

Your agent comes up with two companies for you to choose from. One is a company that has a 3% growth rate. The second company has a 7.5% growth rate. Which company will you choose to invest your money in?

Before you answer, there is another thing: the first company has a gross of 4.5 billion dollars a year. The second has a gross of 2.5 million a year. Does that change your mind any? Of course it doesn't. You could care less how much they gross, you only care about their growth since that's what you are investing your money for.

For the first multibillion dollar company to compete against the second, they need to increase their growth anyway they can, because other investors will do the exact same thing as you did.

 

[initforme]

Ray are you really going to tell me that working at Wal-Mart is going to lead to a good job? Sorry I cannot agree and would never accept that. Those jobs are for part timers who are not wanting a career. Facts are facts. Automation was coming. And it replaces workers. But you will still complain Americans aren't filling those low wage jobs....

 

[initforme]

I will say those jobs are only for people who don't need full time employment because nobody can live on those wages.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

Yet you would be the first to complain if there were regulations preventing that first company from moving.

Sure I would be the first to complain. If our government ever went so far left that they had the ability to force companies to stay within our borders, we would then be under dictatorship rule or Communism.

That is simpleminded in the extreme. In many cases, the government gives the intellectual property of funded laboratories to base technologies and products in many fields. In other cases, they stabilize regions where raw materials that they need are found. They've provided the infrastructure that has given them an educated workforce, transportation and communication, power grid etc without which they'd have never gotten off the ground.

So what is it again that you love about this country?

Government doesn't fund laboratories for businesses to produce technology and products. If anything, government regulates them costing more money. And there are very few places our government has stabilized to obtain resources.

Businesses pay their own way whether you like it or not. That's why cities and states offer tax abatements to keep or draw new businesses to the area. Those new businesses bring in a ton of cash to the city or state, and they pay way more than their fair share for infrastructure and education.

Sorry, you didn't build that.

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't? I live in a city. We have tried to use tax abatements to bring businesses here like every other city and state. Cities and states don't make those offers out of the kindness of their hearts. They do so because it's a great investment.

I see cities that have done great because of the new money coming in from businesses. I've seen cities go to hell when industry moves out.

One of our largest customers built a place with 52 docks. They employ hundreds of people. For the city to get their business, they took an old farm road and developed it into a two and four lane road. The state even created a new highway ramp to a street that provided better access to the business. Afterwards, more businesses moved in, hospital, a gas station and they are generating millions of dollars every year for the suburb.