Do liberals even like this country?

[charwin95]

no they won't Eddie because the union's drove their business overseas and most corporate folk condone sweatshop labor because it keeps labor costs low.....LMAO.

Yep, because industry caters to consumer demands, and the American consumer wants cheaper goods. How do you think Walmart became number one?

That is why Trump make his products overseas.

Exactly. If he had them made here, it would cost too much and his competitors would bury him in sales.

That could have been acceptable if he doesn't keep saying Buy American and Hire American.
At the same time he keep saying bring those jobs back to US. No matter how you give him as excuse. Trump is just a hypocrite. It is not acceptable.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, if you hand someone a monopoly, is this giving or taking?

If you give someone an unfair advantage, is this giving or taking?

Yes, you've given that nonsense analogy about ten times already, there's no point doing it again and again and again.

Tax incentives attract new businesses. Sure they do. I get what you're saying. You're just not looking BEYOND this.

Look at what the EU has done. It has said to all EU countries, you can set the tax rates however you like, we don't care, 0%, 50%, 150% who cares? But what you cannot do is have a tax rate for everyone, and then give special deals to companies. Simply said everyone in that country pays the rates that are going, or they don't.

The difference here is that in the US companies can get what they want. They can go to counties, they can go to states and basically be like "we'll come to you if we don't pay much in tax" and the counties will be like, "we need jobs".

What this does is it plays off different areas against other areas, within the same country. Essentially the country has rolled over like a useless ******* dog, bearing its nipples and asking to have all the milk sucked out of it.

The impact of this, which you conveniently ignore, is that large companies, like Amazon, will ALWAYS get a cheap deal. What it also means is that smaller companies are (how many times do I have to say this for you not to ignore it?) not playing on a level playing field.

What it also means is that the guys doing the deals with companies, like Amazon, get nice little kickbacks.

So, the politicians get their cash for allowing it to happen, the companies get an unfair competitive advantage, and for some ******* reason, you're loving it every step of the way.

You love politicians getting kickbacks from companies in order for the politicians to do the bidding of the companies, you somehow seem to think that by giving BRIBES (there is no other word to describe what this money is) is great, you seem to think that people who have been elected by THE PEOPLE to represent THE PEOPLE and then turn around and take BRIBES to do the bidding of companies is great.

You love large corporations being able to buy politicians

You love large companies getting unfair advantages

You love small companies getting fucked over on a daily basis because they can't compete with the larger companies

Yes, you have a lot of loving.

And then you come on here and tell me I don't know the difference between giving and taking as if I'm some dumb **** who hasn't been outside of his ******* village ever.

Then you write "When you "give" somebody something, it means you provided them with something they didn't have before. Our welfare programs are a perfect example of that."

And this is a perfect example of companies GIVING to politicians so politicians GIVE something to companies they didn't have before. Unless of course you're saying that companies had sweet deals before, so it's okay if they carry on bribing the hell out of politicians.

When you give an unfair advantage to companies like Amazon, is this not giving?

No, it's not giving. It's taking less. You say I told that story a dozen times, yet it still didn't sink into your head.

Yes, cities and states do compete against each other. That's how it's done in a free country. The city that takes the least will likely draw those businesses.

Either you watch too many television movies or you have evidence of these so-calle bribes you speak about. If so, I suggest you turn your evidence over to the FBI. Better still, turn that evidence over to your local news room. They may even offer to pay you for this evidence. Just make sure it's not against Bill or Hillary, otherwise you might end up committing suicide. Can't wait for the breaking news you provided the media any day now.

Big businesses put smaller businesses out of business by selling more to their customers. Larger companies can make better deals with vendors than can smaller companies because of volume. Therefore they can sell their items cheaper and make the same profit as smaller businesses who sell for more.

It's like that liberal urban legend how Walmart put mom and pop stores out of business. Walmart did no such thing. They opened up their store, and people decided they would rather shop at Walmart because they had cheaper prices. The customers put those mom and pop shops out of business--not Walmart.

Just because you tell me something, doesn't me I agree with you.

Again, they're not taking less, they're GIVING people the chance to be uber competitive.

You've completely ignored what I've said about this.

People buy at Walmart because of cheaper prices, how did they manage to get prices CHEAPER? Come on Ray? The govt gives you a massive tax break simply because you'll bribe the politicians, and you think this is fair game. Then they're uber competitive, and they take over the market.

And you LOVE THIS.

Walmart has lower prices because they fight to get lower prices. It doesn't have anything to do with government. In fact Walmart is one of our customers largest customers. We used to pick up material for our customer to make their products for Walmart, but Walmart complained they didn't make it cheap enough. So our customer had to get rid of their vendor here in Cleveland and we lost that delivery; that was about two to three trailer loads a week.

Prior to that they used a company for years that made plastic parts for them. The problem was the company never kept up with automation, so our customer went with another company that did so they could produce cheaper plastic parts. We still have the delivery from the new company (since they were a customer of ours already) but it's a much shorter haul and we make less money on it.

I know all about Walmart.

Walmart get lower prices because they BRIBE to get lower prices. The only reason it's not called "bribery" is because it's legitimate. It's legitimate because the govt says so. That doesn't make it MORAL.

It also has a LOT to do with the govt.

The issue here is "would Walmart be able to do what they do, if they were working on a level playing field?"

The answer is clearly "no".

That much should be perfectly clear.

Walmart benefits from billions in government subsidies: Study

"The report estimates that Walmart.....collectively profit from nearly $7.8 billion per year in federal subsidies and tax breaks."

Okay, that's $7.8 billion of govt money that's going to this one company.

Okay, so Walmart can pay their employees less than they should be earning. Why? Why do you support the govt giving handouts to people who are actually working?

Walmart pays its employees less, because they're getting govt help, this means they can charge less for their products. Meaning companies who pay their employees the correct wage are going to have to charge higher prices for their products.

All because of what the GOVERNMENT has done.

Subsidies the same, they can charge less and less.

Okay, in 2016 Walmart had an income of around $482 billion. Profit of $121 billion. So, you're looking at a profit of 1/4.

Walmart Income Statement, Annual, 2017, 2016 - Amigobulls

Let's do a little role play here.

There's a grocery store called "Ray's Groceries". It has a yearly revenue of $482,000 and profits of $121,000. It pays its staff the correct wage, it doesn't get any govt subsidies. Let's make up another number. The company pays 25% in Federal and State taxes. That means it paid $120,500 in taxes last year. That also means $24 million is being spent in the city on groceries.

Now, in this city there are 50 grocery stores, and they all earn exactly the same as "Ray's Groceries", they all pay the same tax, they all do the same thing, because it's an easier example than trying to find real stuff out and you wouldn't appreciate it anyway. That means the govts are making $6 million. Local people are making 6 million too. This money will go back into the local economy.

Now, Walmart moves in to the city. Walmart moves in because instead of paying 25% in federal and local taxes, Walmart gets to pay 5% in federal and local taxes (am I being generous?).

So this Walmart store is there. It's products are cheaper. It pays workers less. More people got to shop at the local Walmart store than in the other stores.

So, the amount "Ray's Groceries" earns is halved. They earn $241,000 in the first year Walmart is operating. Walmart takes in $12 million that year. Each of the other Grocery Stores loses money.

The Grocery stores are suddenly paying the governments $3 million a year. Walmart is paying the the governments $602,500. This means the governments have LOST $2.4 million a year, and Walmart has gained $2.4 million a year it's not paying in taxes.

It's also paying workers less. So the governments have to pick up the tab there too.

The Walmart profits are $3 million for what it took from the local stores, and $2.4 million from the govt not making it pay taxes. That's $5.4 million.

But the govts need money. So they charge the local people more in taxes to make up the $2.4 million they're losing. The $3 million they make in profits is NOT going back into the local economy.

This means the next year, instead of the 50 groceries stories making a combined $24 million, they're making $21 million. Walmart is taking 50% of this $21 million.

So, the 50 stories are making $10.5 million a year, that's $210,000 a year for the 50 stories, instead of $241,000 they made the year before. Profits are going down. Each year profits go down as less and less money goes back into the local economy. Suddenly Ray's Groceries former competitor shuts down. The people who shopped there go off to Walmart, who suck more money out of the economy, the govt puts up taxes again. The people who worked for the competitor then go work at Walmart, as they're busier than ever, they need more staff, who earn less, and go collect from the govt every so often.

Then Ray's closes down, and then there are only three left, trying to function in the shadow of Walmart.

Are you telling me this is because Walmart was "better"?

No, Walmart was not operating on a level playing field, it could sell its products CHEAPER because the GOVT gave them a sweet deal. Had it been a level playing field, Walmart would have opened into a competitive market, it might have gained a small share of the market, but as it was it sucked the blood dry.

So you know ALL about Walmart? Well that's not really the point. Walmart might have been able to increase its position in the economy being being efficient in the past, and it might very well be efficient now. But what we're talking about here Ray, isn't whether they're more efficient or not, it's whether the govt is giving them an unfair advantage over other competitors, and is destroying local businesses, so that everyone goes to work at Walmart, and then goes on the govt payroll too.

So you don't even read your own links? It sure seems that way.

According to YOUR article, most of those subsidies were not subsidies at all. They were welfare handouts to the workers which Walmart has nothing to do with. Walmart does not sit in Congress. Walmart does not control the Senate. Walmart is not in the White House. It's POLITICIANS who give people welfare--not Walmart, and in fact, DumBama doubled the food stamp role once he took office--Walmart didn't.

See.......this is why you can't trust left-wing media. They're all a bunch of liars. As for larger companies, they get no more tax write-offs than any other store that sells the same goods. I work for a small trucking company. There are trucking companies twenty times the size of us or more in our area, yet my employer is doing just fine and has been in business over 35 years. He competes fine against them. In fact, since I've been with this company, some of them have even shut down and others have sold out.

Oh, I read the link and I understood what it was. The point still stands and you're still ignorning most of what I say because it's not convenient for you.

A bunch of liars? Yeah right Ray.

It's funny how lots of facts have to be ignore for all this to become a lie. Seriously, you're so partisan it's painful. You'll see only what fits your agenda. This isn't even a debate, because you're not debating here.

 

[charwin95]

Obviously the people who look to other countries are doing so to show alternatives to how we do things here.

It seems to me they want us to change this country into one of the others, it's not just a suggestion.

The problem is there is only one USA, but there are plenty of liberal, socialist and Communist countries to go to. Once they destroy the USA, there is no other USA we can run to. So why try to change this one and unique place into something that's already out there?

Let's see. As we stand today. Who is destroying this country? Liberals is always been the same and it has not change after 2016. Did liberals change anything? Who is making all these nonsense tweets?
Because of Trump and people like you--- This country is divided far more than we ever had. The world no longer see us as the leader but a laughing stock because of stupidity and ignorance. Historically very low ratings here and overseas.

This is NOT Making America Great.

1. The real division comes from the left, not the right; much of that though the DumBama years.

2. What did the liberals change since 2016? Nothing. People voted to stop them.

3. Good to hear you know what the world thinks of the US. It must be a dirty little secret that only Democrats share because that's the new talking point of the left. But of course, it's Trumps tweets that divide the country.

1. Trump is dividing this country big time Ray you are just in big denial like the rest of his wrong doing.
DumBama? Obama is far smarter, decent and presidential than Trump. Trump cannot even come close.
Look who is looking so stupid, ignorant, hypocrite, lying, bastard president right now? Trump. Everyday as we move on more and more that he is proving himself unpresidential. This administration is in chaos and discombobulated.
His previous speech------ *Im the president they are not*. Whom is he talking too? The ISIS or Americans?
*Let Obamacare fail by itself* ---- That will make 32 millions Americans uninsured.
WHO in the right mind will say something like that? This country is going the wrong way dude.
2. So what did Trump stop Ray?
3. It's not a secret of the liberals. Truth hurts you Ray?

First off all politicians lie. Name me one that never has. It's not the lying that's the problem, it's what they lie about that matters.

It's the left dividing this country. Trump didn't cause all those protests. Trump didn't cause any riots. Trump didn't stop his adversary from speaking publicly. Trump didn't stop street traffic in anger. Trump didn't attack our police officers or destroy public and private property. All these events and more came from the left.

And how is it Trump's responsibility to make sure Commie Care doesn't fail? No matter what (or if) the Republicans come up with, it won't get one Democrat vote. All Trump is saying is that DumBama created this disaster, so let the disaster work it's own course. You wanted it, you supported it, so you live with it. Don't blame Trump or any Republican for it's failure.

ALL politicians lie BUT Trump lied the most just about everyday. He blurted a lot of unacceptable lies during campaign enough to sink any candidate. He still won because of ignorance.
Of all elected president Tump lied the most and still keep lying. And it's become a norm from people like you.
Trump is a well known all over US and world wide as a pathological lier.

Trump is dividing this country big time because his followers supporting him. Don't blame the left. That includes family against family because of ignorance and stupidity. See the following links to update yourself.

Donald Trump Is Dividing Our Country

http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/01/pew-divide-in-america-deeper-than-ever-before/

Young Americans fear Donald Trump will divide the nation: poll - National | Globalnews.ca

http://amp.usatoday.com/story/94224968/

http://www.ibtimes.com/donald-trump...hows-president-dividing-country-2488033?amp=1

Protests. Volumes speak for itself. They just dont like Trump period.
If you listen to his speech it's more him against the Americans------ This is NOT Making America. It's only 6 months so far all we've seen is chaos and disarray administration.
Any failures and success of this country lay SOLELY in Trump's lap. That is and was always been the rules. You blame everything on Obama why would it change now?

Again I don't know anything about Commie-Care because we don't have communism.
Again I never heard of DumBama.

 

[WEATHER53]

Never ending boo hoo

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It seems to me they want us to change this country into one of the others, it's not just a suggestion.

The problem is there is only one USA, but there are plenty of liberal, socialist and Communist countries to go to. Once they destroy the USA, there is no other USA we can run to. So why try to change this one and unique place into something that's already out there?

Let's see. As we stand today. Who is destroying this country? Liberals is always been the same and it has not change after 2016. Did liberals change anything? Who is making all these nonsense tweets?
Because of Trump and people like you--- This country is divided far more than we ever had. The world no longer see us as the leader but a laughing stock because of stupidity and ignorance. Historically very low ratings here and overseas.

This is NOT Making America Great.

1. The real division comes from the left, not the right; much of that though the DumBama years.

2. What did the liberals change since 2016? Nothing. People voted to stop them.

3. Good to hear you know what the world thinks of the US. It must be a dirty little secret that only Democrats share because that's the new talking point of the left. But of course, it's Trumps tweets that divide the country.

1. Trump is dividing this country big time Ray you are just in big denial like the rest of his wrong doing.
DumBama? Obama is far smarter, decent and presidential than Trump. Trump cannot even come close.
Look who is looking so stupid, ignorant, hypocrite, lying, bastard president right now? Trump. Everyday as we move on more and more that he is proving himself unpresidential. This administration is in chaos and discombobulated.
His previous speech------ *Im the president they are not*. Whom is he talking too? The ISIS or Americans?
*Let Obamacare fail by itself* ---- That will make 32 millions Americans uninsured.
WHO in the right mind will say something like that? This country is going the wrong way dude.
2. So what did Trump stop Ray?
3. It's not a secret of the liberals. Truth hurts you Ray?

First off all politicians lie. Name me one that never has. It's not the lying that's the problem, it's what they lie about that matters.

It's the left dividing this country. Trump didn't cause all those protests. Trump didn't cause any riots. Trump didn't stop his adversary from speaking publicly. Trump didn't stop street traffic in anger. Trump didn't attack our police officers or destroy public and private property. All these events and more came from the left.

And how is it Trump's responsibility to make sure Commie Care doesn't fail? No matter what (or if) the Republicans come up with, it won't get one Democrat vote. All Trump is saying is that DumBama created this disaster, so let the disaster work it's own course. You wanted it, you supported it, so you live with it. Don't blame Trump or any Republican for it's failure.

ALL politicians lie BUT Trump lied the most just about everyday. He blurted a lot of unacceptable lies during campaign enough to sink any candidate. He still won because of ignorance.
Of all elected president Tump lied the most and still keep lying. And it's become a norm from people like you.
Trump is a well known all over US and world wide as a pathological lier.

Trump is dividing this country big time because his followers supporting him. Don't blame the left. That includes family against family because of ignorance and stupidity. See the following links to update yourself.

Donald Trump Is Dividing Our Country

http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/01/pew-divide-in-america-deeper-than-ever-before/

Young Americans fear Donald Trump will divide the nation: poll - National | Globalnews.ca

Poll: Americans feel more divided than ever

Donald Trump Is Breaking Up Marriages, Families: Latest Poll Shows President Dividing Country Even More

Protests. Volumes speak for itself. They just dont like Trump period.
If you listen to his speech it's more him against the Americans------ This is NOT Making America. It's only 6 months so far all we've seen is chaos and disarray administration.
Any failures and success of this country lay SOLELY in Trump's lap. That is and was always been the rules. You blame everything on Obama why would it change now?

Again I don't know anything about Commie-Care because we don't have communism.
Again I never heard of DumBama.

How moronic. People divide themselves. Presidents don't do that. The can promote division, but I never seen Trump do that.

Would you like to discuss how liberals promote division?

Rich vs poor.
Straight vs homosexual
Companies vs workers.
Black vs white.
Americans vs immigrants.
Gun owners vs gun haters.
Religious citizens vs secular citizens.

When you protest something, what you are doing is saying something isn't right and needs to be changed. So what were the protesters doing protesting Trump? What they were saying is that they didn't like a fair election system; they only want their candidates to win; they don't want any competition; they want the winner to bow down and give the presidency to the loser.

All anti-American if you ask me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, it's not giving. It's taking less. You say I told that story a dozen times, yet it still didn't sink into your head.

Yes, cities and states do compete against each other. That's how it's done in a free country. The city that takes the least will likely draw those businesses.

Either you watch too many television movies or you have evidence of these so-calle bribes you speak about. If so, I suggest you turn your evidence over to the FBI. Better still, turn that evidence over to your local news room. They may even offer to pay you for this evidence. Just make sure it's not against Bill or Hillary, otherwise you might end up committing suicide. Can't wait for the breaking news you provided the media any day now.

Big businesses put smaller businesses out of business by selling more to their customers. Larger companies can make better deals with vendors than can smaller companies because of volume. Therefore they can sell their items cheaper and make the same profit as smaller businesses who sell for more.

It's like that liberal urban legend how Walmart put mom and pop stores out of business. Walmart did no such thing. They opened up their store, and people decided they would rather shop at Walmart because they had cheaper prices. The customers put those mom and pop shops out of business--not Walmart.

Just because you tell me something, doesn't me I agree with you.

Again, they're not taking less, they're GIVING people the chance to be uber competitive.

You've completely ignored what I've said about this.

People buy at Walmart because of cheaper prices, how did they manage to get prices CHEAPER? Come on Ray? The govt gives you a massive tax break simply because you'll bribe the politicians, and you think this is fair game. Then they're uber competitive, and they take over the market.

And you LOVE THIS.

Walmart has lower prices because they fight to get lower prices. It doesn't have anything to do with government. In fact Walmart is one of our customers largest customers. We used to pick up material for our customer to make their products for Walmart, but Walmart complained they didn't make it cheap enough. So our customer had to get rid of their vendor here in Cleveland and we lost that delivery; that was about two to three trailer loads a week.

Prior to that they used a company for years that made plastic parts for them. The problem was the company never kept up with automation, so our customer went with another company that did so they could produce cheaper plastic parts. We still have the delivery from the new company (since they were a customer of ours already) but it's a much shorter haul and we make less money on it.

I know all about Walmart.

Walmart get lower prices because they BRIBE to get lower prices. The only reason it's not called "bribery" is because it's legitimate. It's legitimate because the govt says so. That doesn't make it MORAL.

It also has a LOT to do with the govt.

The issue here is "would Walmart be able to do what they do, if they were working on a level playing field?"

The answer is clearly "no".

That much should be perfectly clear.

Walmart benefits from billions in government subsidies: Study

"The report estimates that Walmart.....collectively profit from nearly $7.8 billion per year in federal subsidies and tax breaks."

Okay, that's $7.8 billion of govt money that's going to this one company.

Okay, so Walmart can pay their employees less than they should be earning. Why? Why do you support the govt giving handouts to people who are actually working?

Walmart pays its employees less, because they're getting govt help, this means they can charge less for their products. Meaning companies who pay their employees the correct wage are going to have to charge higher prices for their products.

All because of what the GOVERNMENT has done.

Subsidies the same, they can charge less and less.

Okay, in 2016 Walmart had an income of around $482 billion. Profit of $121 billion. So, you're looking at a profit of 1/4.

Walmart Income Statement, Annual, 2017, 2016 - Amigobulls

Let's do a little role play here.

There's a grocery store called "Ray's Groceries". It has a yearly revenue of $482,000 and profits of $121,000. It pays its staff the correct wage, it doesn't get any govt subsidies. Let's make up another number. The company pays 25% in Federal and State taxes. That means it paid $120,500 in taxes last year. That also means $24 million is being spent in the city on groceries.

Now, in this city there are 50 grocery stores, and they all earn exactly the same as "Ray's Groceries", they all pay the same tax, they all do the same thing, because it's an easier example than trying to find real stuff out and you wouldn't appreciate it anyway. That means the govts are making $6 million. Local people are making 6 million too. This money will go back into the local economy.

Now, Walmart moves in to the city. Walmart moves in because instead of paying 25% in federal and local taxes, Walmart gets to pay 5% in federal and local taxes (am I being generous?).

So this Walmart store is there. It's products are cheaper. It pays workers less. More people got to shop at the local Walmart store than in the other stores.

So, the amount "Ray's Groceries" earns is halved. They earn $241,000 in the first year Walmart is operating. Walmart takes in $12 million that year. Each of the other Grocery Stores loses money.

The Grocery stores are suddenly paying the governments $3 million a year. Walmart is paying the the governments $602,500. This means the governments have LOST $2.4 million a year, and Walmart has gained $2.4 million a year it's not paying in taxes.

It's also paying workers less. So the governments have to pick up the tab there too.

The Walmart profits are $3 million for what it took from the local stores, and $2.4 million from the govt not making it pay taxes. That's $5.4 million.

But the govts need money. So they charge the local people more in taxes to make up the $2.4 million they're losing. The $3 million they make in profits is NOT going back into the local economy.

This means the next year, instead of the 50 groceries stories making a combined $24 million, they're making $21 million. Walmart is taking 50% of this $21 million.

So, the 50 stories are making $10.5 million a year, that's $210,000 a year for the 50 stories, instead of $241,000 they made the year before. Profits are going down. Each year profits go down as less and less money goes back into the local economy. Suddenly Ray's Groceries former competitor shuts down. The people who shopped there go off to Walmart, who suck more money out of the economy, the govt puts up taxes again. The people who worked for the competitor then go work at Walmart, as they're busier than ever, they need more staff, who earn less, and go collect from the govt every so often.

Then Ray's closes down, and then there are only three left, trying to function in the shadow of Walmart.

Are you telling me this is because Walmart was "better"?

No, Walmart was not operating on a level playing field, it could sell its products CHEAPER because the GOVT gave them a sweet deal. Had it been a level playing field, Walmart would have opened into a competitive market, it might have gained a small share of the market, but as it was it sucked the blood dry.

So you know ALL about Walmart? Well that's not really the point. Walmart might have been able to increase its position in the economy being being efficient in the past, and it might very well be efficient now. But what we're talking about here Ray, isn't whether they're more efficient or not, it's whether the govt is giving them an unfair advantage over other competitors, and is destroying local businesses, so that everyone goes to work at Walmart, and then goes on the govt payroll too.

So you don't even read your own links? It sure seems that way.

According to YOUR article, most of those subsidies were not subsidies at all. They were welfare handouts to the workers which Walmart has nothing to do with. Walmart does not sit in Congress. Walmart does not control the Senate. Walmart is not in the White House. It's POLITICIANS who give people welfare--not Walmart, and in fact, DumBama doubled the food stamp role once he took office--Walmart didn't.

See.......this is why you can't trust left-wing media. They're all a bunch of liars. As for larger companies, they get no more tax write-offs than any other store that sells the same goods. I work for a small trucking company. There are trucking companies twenty times the size of us or more in our area, yet my employer is doing just fine and has been in business over 35 years. He competes fine against them. In fact, since I've been with this company, some of them have even shut down and others have sold out.

Oh, I read the link and I understood what it was. The point still stands and you're still ignorning most of what I say because it's not convenient for you.

A bunch of liars? Yeah right Ray.

It's funny how lots of facts have to be ignore for all this to become a lie. Seriously, you're so partisan it's painful. You'll see only what fits your agenda. This isn't even a debate, because you're not debating here.

Then show me one instance where a law was written to give tax breaks to large businesses that they didn't give to small businesses in the same field.

Also note that it's Republicans that want to have a flat tax system. Democrats want to fight that all the way.

Walmart may have more write-offs than mom and pop shops, but it's not because of additional write-offs that they are provided, it's because as a larger organization, they have more write-offs.

I'm a landlord and I compete against big corporate apartment buildings. I'm doing fine. They are not getting any more deductions than I am. Yes, they have more deductions because they are a larger enterprise, but they are not getting special deductions that I don't get. We all get the same in this business.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

no they won't Eddie because the union's drove their business overseas and most corporate folk condone sweatshop labor because it keeps labor costs low.....LMAO.

Yep, because industry caters to consumer demands, and the American consumer wants cheaper goods. How do you think Walmart became number one?

That is why Trump make his products overseas.

Exactly. If he had them made here, it would cost too much and his competitors would bury him in sales.

That could have been acceptable if he doesn't keep saying Buy American and Hire American.
At the same time he keep saying bring those jobs back to US. No matter how you give him as excuse. Trump is just a hypocrite. It is not acceptable.

Trump spoke about this when he was running for President. He stated he did make political contributions (including the Clintons) because that's the only way to get what you need to run your business. He stated it's a pay-to-play game. He stated it's crooked and he was forced to participate or sink.

So what Trump was saying is that the entire system has to change--not just his companies or his daughters. Everybody must change at the same time in order to have fair competition in the sales game.

 

[charwin95]

Bullcrap. You rebuttal are nothing but full of distortion and still full of lies.
I asked you ---- who said that other countries is better than US? You didnt answer my question. There are no such liberals that will say something like that. This country is always been great. We love this country. It was Trump who said other countries are better than us. But you are in denial. I've participated in many forums and I have not seen one single liberals that say this country is no better than third world countries. You lied.

When somebody says Germany, France, Canada does X better, that's not saying their country is better than ours? Especially when they rattle off several policies?

Wall is nothing but a waste of tax payers money. Id rather spend that money helping your kids get college educations.

The cost of the wall is about half of what we spend on food stamps in ONE year. You just don't like the wall because your puppet masters told you not to like it.

Democrats wants illegals kill Americans? Only idiot will say something like that. Are you saying that all 20 millions illegals are all criminals and selling drugs?

No, as typical with a liberal, you are putting things in my post I didn't say. If Democrats didn't want these lowlifes here, why are they fighting sanctuary city elimination and stopped Kate's law? There could only be one reason, they would rather see this country overrun with illegals who do kill Americans and sell drugs.

Russian invaded our democracy by meddling into our election. Russia an enemy of America but Trump think it's a lover. You supported that. You need to explain that to republicans investigating Trump why you think that is acceptable.

No, you need to explain exactly what Russia did outside of breaking into the DNC server and exposing the truth about Democrats.

Guns----I gave you a good example why liberals hate gun nuts and it's acceptable to a gun nuts like you that mentally retarded people can buy guns. Do you have any decency left in your worthless soul?

Then do tell us, how many mentally retarded people have killed others with a gun?

You don't even know why your party is against guns.

There is a large part of this country that are really poor and no matter how they tried they are stuck poor. God blessed me with gift and good health I don't have problem helping them.

What is poverty? Poverty is the state of having no or little money. What is the solution to poverty? Earning money. How does one earn money? They get a job. How does one use money wisely? They don't buy things they can't afford, don't have children until they are financially stable, and avoid borrowing money they don't need.

You see, any able bodied person can do this. But for many of our poor, it's easier to sit in front of the big screen all day long and talk on your Obama phone eating like a pig on food stamps.

Nearly half of population don't pay tax. Really? Prove it. Trump don't pay taxes but illegals pay taxes.

Who doesn't have to pay federal income taxes? 43% of Americans

Mr. OP in your first paragraph first sentence of your post #1 you said ---- During the debate with leftist this morning------- Crap--- YOU didn't knew whom you spoke from the left this morning? Bull. Who?

WALL ---- This just shows you poorly informed. ALL illegals are not receiving food stamps. I told you this before I will tell you this again----- The cost we spend with the illegals now are the illegals living inside this country. Inside this country. So putting up that stupid WALL will not change that cost. Got it?
You assumed that all illegals are criminals.
Your interpretation of Sanctuary is way off. All sanctuaries are cooperating with Federals. Real criminals are being reported to ICE but they will NOT turn them in for broken tail lights or no driver license. That's the reason why liberals are against Kate's Law.
No I'm not putting words in your mouth-------- Didn't you just said Democrats wants illegals to kill Americans?

Guns. Let me put up the link again maybe you don't understand. So you allow mentally people buy guns?
Trump signs bill reversing Obama rule to ban gun purchases by mentally ill

Poverty---- You assumed that all people in the poverty are just crap. There are large part of this country or large part of the population----- That no matter what they do or how hard, with education and get a jobs still stuck in poverty or follow all that crap you are babbling. They are still in poverty. So tell me again about poverty.
Your interpretation of people on food stamps are way way off. People on food stamps cannot sit all day eating food. How much do you think they get every month $5,000? You are poorly informed.

Russia ----- I do not need to explain anything to you what they did. You know what they did. Let me repeat it for you. Russia is an enemy. Not a friend. Yet you have a president protecting Putin against his own intelligence. Why?

 

[charwin95]

no they won't Eddie because the union's drove their business overseas and most corporate folk condone sweatshop labor because it keeps labor costs low.....LMAO.

Yep, because industry caters to consumer demands, and the American consumer wants cheaper goods. How do you think Walmart became number one?

That is why Trump make his products overseas.

Exactly. If he had them made here, it would cost too much and his competitors would bury him in sales.

That could have been acceptable if he doesn't keep saying Buy American and Hire American.
At the same time he keep saying bring those jobs back to US. No matter how you give him as excuse. Trump is just a hypocrite. It is not acceptable.

Trump spoke about this when he was running for President. He stated he did make political contributions (including the Clintons) because that's the only way to get what you need to run your business. He stated it's a pay-to-play game. He stated it's crooked and he was forced to participate or sink.

So what Trump was saying is that the entire system has to change--not just his companies or his daughters. Everybody must change at the same time in order to have fair competition in the sales game.

This has nothing to do with Clinton.

So did Trump told you he is bringing his products that are made in China, Mexico, Bangladesh and Indonesia to US?

So it's okay for him to make his products overseas and also hire foreign workers ----- But others can't? Remember he is even threatening people LIKE ME who are making products overseas.

O matter how you give him an excuse Trump is a hypocrite. Dude this is not acceptable.

 

[charwin95]

Let's see. As we stand today. Who is destroying this country? Liberals is always been the same and it has not change after 2016. Did liberals change anything? Who is making all these nonsense tweets?
Because of Trump and people like you--- This country is divided far more than we ever had. The world no longer see us as the leader but a laughing stock because of stupidity and ignorance. Historically very low ratings here and overseas.

This is NOT Making America Great.

1. The real division comes from the left, not the right; much of that though the DumBama years.

2. What did the liberals change since 2016? Nothing. People voted to stop them.

3. Good to hear you know what the world thinks of the US. It must be a dirty little secret that only Democrats share because that's the new talking point of the left. But of course, it's Trumps tweets that divide the country.

1. Trump is dividing this country big time Ray you are just in big denial like the rest of his wrong doing.
DumBama? Obama is far smarter, decent and presidential than Trump. Trump cannot even come close.
Look who is looking so stupid, ignorant, hypocrite, lying, bastard president right now? Trump. Everyday as we move on more and more that he is proving himself unpresidential. This administration is in chaos and discombobulated.
His previous speech------ *Im the president they are not*. Whom is he talking too? The ISIS or Americans?
*Let Obamacare fail by itself* ---- That will make 32 millions Americans uninsured.
WHO in the right mind will say something like that? This country is going the wrong way dude.
2. So what did Trump stop Ray?
3. It's not a secret of the liberals. Truth hurts you Ray?

First off all politicians lie. Name me one that never has. It's not the lying that's the problem, it's what they lie about that matters.

It's the left dividing this country. Trump didn't cause all those protests. Trump didn't cause any riots. Trump didn't stop his adversary from speaking publicly. Trump didn't stop street traffic in anger. Trump didn't attack our police officers or destroy public and private property. All these events and more came from the left.

And how is it Trump's responsibility to make sure Commie Care doesn't fail? No matter what (or if) the Republicans come up with, it won't get one Democrat vote. All Trump is saying is that DumBama created this disaster, so let the disaster work it's own course. You wanted it, you supported it, so you live with it. Don't blame Trump or any Republican for it's failure.

ALL politicians lie BUT Trump lied the most just about everyday. He blurted a lot of unacceptable lies during campaign enough to sink any candidate. He still won because of ignorance.
Of all elected president Tump lied the most and still keep lying. And it's become a norm from people like you.
Trump is a well known all over US and world wide as a pathological lier.

Trump is dividing this country big time because his followers supporting him. Don't blame the left. That includes family against family because of ignorance and stupidity. See the following links to update yourself.

Donald Trump Is Dividing Our Country

Pew: Divide in America deeper than ever before

Young Americans fear Donald Trump will divide the nation: poll - National | Globalnews.ca

Poll: Americans feel more divided than ever

Donald Trump Is Breaking Up Marriages, Families: Latest Poll Shows President Dividing Country Even More

Protests. Volumes speak for itself. They just dont like Trump period.
If you listen to his speech it's more him against the Americans------ This is NOT Making America. It's only 6 months so far all we've seen is chaos and disarray administration.
Any failures and success of this country lay SOLELY in Trump's lap. That is and was always been the rules. You blame everything on Obama why would it change now?

Again I don't know anything about Commie-Care because we don't have communism.
Again I never heard of DumBama.

How moronic. People divide themselves. Presidents don't do that. The can promote division, but I never seen Trump do that.

Would you like to discuss how liberals promote division?

Rich vs poor.
Straight vs homosexual
Companies vs workers.
Black vs white.
Americans vs immigrants.
Gun owners vs gun haters.
Religious citizens vs secular citizens.

When you protest something, what you are doing is saying something isn't right and needs to be changed. So what were the protesters doing protesting Trump? What they were saying is that they didn't like a fair election system; they only want their candidates to win; they don't want any competition; they want the winner to bow down and give the presidency to the loser.

All anti-American if you ask me.

You can deny or give excuses however you want Trump is dividing this country big time. Even family against family that has nothing to about election now. There are tons of links and news about Trump divisiveness.
People like you don't even recognized that some of his speech are so divisive.
*I'm the president they are not* ------ To you that is okay. But real conservative or liberals that is NOT acceptable.
If he is not careful---- He might end the most hated president.

All these chaos or disarray administration you see has nothing to do with election. You have to tell Trump election is over.

Clear anti Americans are the people supporting an enemy like Russia.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Just because you tell me something, doesn't me I agree with you.

Again, they're not taking less, they're GIVING people the chance to be uber competitive.

You've completely ignored what I've said about this.

People buy at Walmart because of cheaper prices, how did they manage to get prices CHEAPER? Come on Ray? The govt gives you a massive tax break simply because you'll bribe the politicians, and you think this is fair game. Then they're uber competitive, and they take over the market.

And you LOVE THIS.

Walmart has lower prices because they fight to get lower prices. It doesn't have anything to do with government. In fact Walmart is one of our customers largest customers. We used to pick up material for our customer to make their products for Walmart, but Walmart complained they didn't make it cheap enough. So our customer had to get rid of their vendor here in Cleveland and we lost that delivery; that was about two to three trailer loads a week.

Prior to that they used a company for years that made plastic parts for them. The problem was the company never kept up with automation, so our customer went with another company that did so they could produce cheaper plastic parts. We still have the delivery from the new company (since they were a customer of ours already) but it's a much shorter haul and we make less money on it.

I know all about Walmart.

Walmart get lower prices because they BRIBE to get lower prices. The only reason it's not called "bribery" is because it's legitimate. It's legitimate because the govt says so. That doesn't make it MORAL.

It also has a LOT to do with the govt.

The issue here is "would Walmart be able to do what they do, if they were working on a level playing field?"

The answer is clearly "no".

That much should be perfectly clear.

Walmart benefits from billions in government subsidies: Study

"The report estimates that Walmart.....collectively profit from nearly $7.8 billion per year in federal subsidies and tax breaks."

Okay, that's $7.8 billion of govt money that's going to this one company.

Okay, so Walmart can pay their employees less than they should be earning. Why? Why do you support the govt giving handouts to people who are actually working?

Walmart pays its employees less, because they're getting govt help, this means they can charge less for their products. Meaning companies who pay their employees the correct wage are going to have to charge higher prices for their products.

All because of what the GOVERNMENT has done.

Subsidies the same, they can charge less and less.

Okay, in 2016 Walmart had an income of around $482 billion. Profit of $121 billion. So, you're looking at a profit of 1/4.

Walmart Income Statement, Annual, 2017, 2016 - Amigobulls

Let's do a little role play here.

There's a grocery store called "Ray's Groceries". It has a yearly revenue of $482,000 and profits of $121,000. It pays its staff the correct wage, it doesn't get any govt subsidies. Let's make up another number. The company pays 25% in Federal and State taxes. That means it paid $120,500 in taxes last year. That also means $24 million is being spent in the city on groceries.

Now, in this city there are 50 grocery stores, and they all earn exactly the same as "Ray's Groceries", they all pay the same tax, they all do the same thing, because it's an easier example than trying to find real stuff out and you wouldn't appreciate it anyway. That means the govts are making $6 million. Local people are making 6 million too. This money will go back into the local economy.

Now, Walmart moves in to the city. Walmart moves in because instead of paying 25% in federal and local taxes, Walmart gets to pay 5% in federal and local taxes (am I being generous?).

So this Walmart store is there. It's products are cheaper. It pays workers less. More people got to shop at the local Walmart store than in the other stores.

So, the amount "Ray's Groceries" earns is halved. They earn $241,000 in the first year Walmart is operating. Walmart takes in $12 million that year. Each of the other Grocery Stores loses money.

The Grocery stores are suddenly paying the governments $3 million a year. Walmart is paying the the governments $602,500. This means the governments have LOST $2.4 million a year, and Walmart has gained $2.4 million a year it's not paying in taxes.

It's also paying workers less. So the governments have to pick up the tab there too.

The Walmart profits are $3 million for what it took from the local stores, and $2.4 million from the govt not making it pay taxes. That's $5.4 million.

But the govts need money. So they charge the local people more in taxes to make up the $2.4 million they're losing. The $3 million they make in profits is NOT going back into the local economy.

This means the next year, instead of the 50 groceries stories making a combined $24 million, they're making $21 million. Walmart is taking 50% of this $21 million.

So, the 50 stories are making $10.5 million a year, that's $210,000 a year for the 50 stories, instead of $241,000 they made the year before. Profits are going down. Each year profits go down as less and less money goes back into the local economy. Suddenly Ray's Groceries former competitor shuts down. The people who shopped there go off to Walmart, who suck more money out of the economy, the govt puts up taxes again. The people who worked for the competitor then go work at Walmart, as they're busier than ever, they need more staff, who earn less, and go collect from the govt every so often.

Then Ray's closes down, and then there are only three left, trying to function in the shadow of Walmart.

Are you telling me this is because Walmart was "better"?

No, Walmart was not operating on a level playing field, it could sell its products CHEAPER because the GOVT gave them a sweet deal. Had it been a level playing field, Walmart would have opened into a competitive market, it might have gained a small share of the market, but as it was it sucked the blood dry.

So you know ALL about Walmart? Well that's not really the point. Walmart might have been able to increase its position in the economy being being efficient in the past, and it might very well be efficient now. But what we're talking about here Ray, isn't whether they're more efficient or not, it's whether the govt is giving them an unfair advantage over other competitors, and is destroying local businesses, so that everyone goes to work at Walmart, and then goes on the govt payroll too.

So you don't even read your own links? It sure seems that way.

According to YOUR article, most of those subsidies were not subsidies at all. They were welfare handouts to the workers which Walmart has nothing to do with. Walmart does not sit in Congress. Walmart does not control the Senate. Walmart is not in the White House. It's POLITICIANS who give people welfare--not Walmart, and in fact, DumBama doubled the food stamp role once he took office--Walmart didn't.

See.......this is why you can't trust left-wing media. They're all a bunch of liars. As for larger companies, they get no more tax write-offs than any other store that sells the same goods. I work for a small trucking company. There are trucking companies twenty times the size of us or more in our area, yet my employer is doing just fine and has been in business over 35 years. He competes fine against them. In fact, since I've been with this company, some of them have even shut down and others have sold out.

Oh, I read the link and I understood what it was. The point still stands and you're still ignorning most of what I say because it's not convenient for you.

A bunch of liars? Yeah right Ray.

It's funny how lots of facts have to be ignore for all this to become a lie. Seriously, you're so partisan it's painful. You'll see only what fits your agenda. This isn't even a debate, because you're not debating here.

Then show me one instance where a law was written to give tax breaks to large businesses that they didn't give to small businesses in the same field.

Also note that it's Republicans that want to have a flat tax system. Democrats want to fight that all the way.

Walmart may have more write-offs than mom and pop shops, but it's not because of additional write-offs that they are provided, it's because as a larger organization, they have more write-offs.

I'm a landlord and I compete against big corporate apartment buildings. I'm doing fine. They are not getting any more deductions than I am. Yes, they have more deductions because they are a larger enterprise, but they are not getting special deductions that I don't get. We all get the same in this business.

I'm really not sure what you're asking that for.

You know, or you should do if you have at least one eye open, that companies like Amazon, Walmart etc are getting massive tax breaks when other companies aren't. Please tell me you know this is true.

Yes, the Republicans want a flat tax. I'm not sure why you've brought this up here. Even with a flat tax, companies like Walmart, Amazon and the rest would be paying "political donations" and then getting special deals different to other companies, only they'd be paying EVEN LESS than they are now.

So what does a flat tax have to do with what we're talking about?

So, you're saying that if Walmart earns $480 billion, and a small grocery store earns $480,000, that as a percentage of this money, Walmart will be equal to the small grocery store?

If you are saying this, can you back this up?

Find Out If Your Tax Rate Is Higher Than Walmart's

"most people pay something near what the government sets as the tax rate for their income."

"The same is not always true of corporations. "

" While the United States has the highest statutory corporate tax among industrialized nations (39.1 percent), corporations have a greater number of ways to bring that tax bill down."

Corporate Tax Explorer

Pepco holdings pays -33%.

Yes, it pays MINUS THIRTY THREE PERCENT.

Are you telling me this is fair?

Pepco holdings earns $480 million in profits in 2012

It paid -$76 million in tax. Why the hell is it paying MINUS tax?

Only one year from 2008-2012 did it pay plus tax, and that was $9 million, compared to $584 million it gained from the tax people.

State tax rate -9%

Are you telling me this is the same as the guy competing with them? Come off it.

 

[charwin95]

You are forgetting something Ray. Russia is a well known adversary of US not a friendly ally of US.
Any meeting with adversary such as Russia is not a good idea.
With so much secret meetings then lie after lie about Russians you should ask yourself. Why and WTF is going on?
Unfortunately you seems not to understand any of that. Will it make any difference if he has a meeting with Hitler?

That would be worrisome since Hitler is dead. Having conversations with dead people should qualify you for the funny farm.........unless you're Hillary of course who openly said she had conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt. Because if you're a Dem, that qualifies you to run for President.

Yes, having a meeting with an adversary is not good, but trying to reestablish diplomatic relationships with an adversary (Cuba) is a little worse I think.

That is a good example of philosophical rebuttal.
I asked you several questions over and over on several post but you have not answered any.
Why all the secret meetings with the Russians and then lied? WHY?

That's funny. Russia's ICBM is pointed in your head but Cuba isn't. Yet you adore Putin. You are not a conservative nor a Republican.

Diplomatic relations is okay but kissing and adoring Putin, protecting Putin against his own intelligence is NOT acceptable.

Again you can give any excuses or however you protect Trump. This is NOT making America Great.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are forgetting something Ray. Russia is a well known adversary of US not a friendly ally of US.
Any meeting with adversary such as Russia is not a good idea.
With so much secret meetings then lie after lie about Russians you should ask yourself. Why and WTF is going on?
Unfortunately you seems not to understand any of that. Will it make any difference if he has a meeting with Hitler?

That would be worrisome since Hitler is dead. Having conversations with dead people should qualify you for the funny farm.........unless you're Hillary of course who openly said she had conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt. Because if you're a Dem, that qualifies you to run for President.

Yes, having a meeting with an adversary is not good, but trying to reestablish diplomatic relationships with an adversary (Cuba) is a little worse I think.

That is a good example of philosophical rebuttal.
I asked you several questions over and over on several post but you have not answered any.
Why all the secret meetings with the Russians and then lied? WHY?

That's funny. Russia's ICBM is pointed in your head but Cuba isn't. Yet you adore Putin. You are not a conservative nor a Republican.

Diplomatic relations is okay but kissing and adoring Putin, protecting Putin against his own intelligence is NOT acceptable.

Again you can give any excuses or however you protect Trump. This is NOT making America Great.

I'm not protecting anybody. What he did was not all that earth shattering. Not a good move? Perhaps, but nothing to make a big deal over. It was not illegal and I'm sure the Clintons would have jumped at the same opportunity, although as professional criminals, they would have found a way to do so without anybody knowing.

His only fault is that he lied about it when asked. More than likely since nothing even happened, he probably forgot about it anyway. But once the cat was out of the bag, he willingly gave all his emails pertaining to the subject which is exact opposite of what Hil-Liar did when asked for hers. She bleach bitted them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Walmart has lower prices because they fight to get lower prices. It doesn't have anything to do with government. In fact Walmart is one of our customers largest customers. We used to pick up material for our customer to make their products for Walmart, but Walmart complained they didn't make it cheap enough. So our customer had to get rid of their vendor here in Cleveland and we lost that delivery; that was about two to three trailer loads a week.

Prior to that they used a company for years that made plastic parts for them. The problem was the company never kept up with automation, so our customer went with another company that did so they could produce cheaper plastic parts. We still have the delivery from the new company (since they were a customer of ours already) but it's a much shorter haul and we make less money on it.

I know all about Walmart.

Walmart get lower prices because they BRIBE to get lower prices. The only reason it's not called "bribery" is because it's legitimate. It's legitimate because the govt says so. That doesn't make it MORAL.

It also has a LOT to do with the govt.

The issue here is "would Walmart be able to do what they do, if they were working on a level playing field?"

The answer is clearly "no".

That much should be perfectly clear.

Walmart benefits from billions in government subsidies: Study

"The report estimates that Walmart.....collectively profit from nearly $7.8 billion per year in federal subsidies and tax breaks."

Okay, that's $7.8 billion of govt money that's going to this one company.

Okay, so Walmart can pay their employees less than they should be earning. Why? Why do you support the govt giving handouts to people who are actually working?

Walmart pays its employees less, because they're getting govt help, this means they can charge less for their products. Meaning companies who pay their employees the correct wage are going to have to charge higher prices for their products.

All because of what the GOVERNMENT has done.

Subsidies the same, they can charge less and less.

Okay, in 2016 Walmart had an income of around $482 billion. Profit of $121 billion. So, you're looking at a profit of 1/4.

Walmart Income Statement, Annual, 2017, 2016 - Amigobulls

Let's do a little role play here.

There's a grocery store called "Ray's Groceries". It has a yearly revenue of $482,000 and profits of $121,000. It pays its staff the correct wage, it doesn't get any govt subsidies. Let's make up another number. The company pays 25% in Federal and State taxes. That means it paid $120,500 in taxes last year. That also means $24 million is being spent in the city on groceries.

Now, in this city there are 50 grocery stores, and they all earn exactly the same as "Ray's Groceries", they all pay the same tax, they all do the same thing, because it's an easier example than trying to find real stuff out and you wouldn't appreciate it anyway. That means the govts are making $6 million. Local people are making 6 million too. This money will go back into the local economy.

Now, Walmart moves in to the city. Walmart moves in because instead of paying 25% in federal and local taxes, Walmart gets to pay 5% in federal and local taxes (am I being generous?).

So this Walmart store is there. It's products are cheaper. It pays workers less. More people got to shop at the local Walmart store than in the other stores.

So, the amount "Ray's Groceries" earns is halved. They earn $241,000 in the first year Walmart is operating. Walmart takes in $12 million that year. Each of the other Grocery Stores loses money.

The Grocery stores are suddenly paying the governments $3 million a year. Walmart is paying the the governments $602,500. This means the governments have LOST $2.4 million a year, and Walmart has gained $2.4 million a year it's not paying in taxes.

It's also paying workers less. So the governments have to pick up the tab there too.

The Walmart profits are $3 million for what it took from the local stores, and $2.4 million from the govt not making it pay taxes. That's $5.4 million.

But the govts need money. So they charge the local people more in taxes to make up the $2.4 million they're losing. The $3 million they make in profits is NOT going back into the local economy.

This means the next year, instead of the 50 groceries stories making a combined $24 million, they're making $21 million. Walmart is taking 50% of this $21 million.

So, the 50 stories are making $10.5 million a year, that's $210,000 a year for the 50 stories, instead of $241,000 they made the year before. Profits are going down. Each year profits go down as less and less money goes back into the local economy. Suddenly Ray's Groceries former competitor shuts down. The people who shopped there go off to Walmart, who suck more money out of the economy, the govt puts up taxes again. The people who worked for the competitor then go work at Walmart, as they're busier than ever, they need more staff, who earn less, and go collect from the govt every so often.

Then Ray's closes down, and then there are only three left, trying to function in the shadow of Walmart.

Are you telling me this is because Walmart was "better"?

No, Walmart was not operating on a level playing field, it could sell its products CHEAPER because the GOVT gave them a sweet deal. Had it been a level playing field, Walmart would have opened into a competitive market, it might have gained a small share of the market, but as it was it sucked the blood dry.

So you know ALL about Walmart? Well that's not really the point. Walmart might have been able to increase its position in the economy being being efficient in the past, and it might very well be efficient now. But what we're talking about here Ray, isn't whether they're more efficient or not, it's whether the govt is giving them an unfair advantage over other competitors, and is destroying local businesses, so that everyone goes to work at Walmart, and then goes on the govt payroll too.

So you don't even read your own links? It sure seems that way.

According to YOUR article, most of those subsidies were not subsidies at all. They were welfare handouts to the workers which Walmart has nothing to do with. Walmart does not sit in Congress. Walmart does not control the Senate. Walmart is not in the White House. It's POLITICIANS who give people welfare--not Walmart, and in fact, DumBama doubled the food stamp role once he took office--Walmart didn't.

See.......this is why you can't trust left-wing media. They're all a bunch of liars. As for larger companies, they get no more tax write-offs than any other store that sells the same goods. I work for a small trucking company. There are trucking companies twenty times the size of us or more in our area, yet my employer is doing just fine and has been in business over 35 years. He competes fine against them. In fact, since I've been with this company, some of them have even shut down and others have sold out.

Oh, I read the link and I understood what it was. The point still stands and you're still ignorning most of what I say because it's not convenient for you.

A bunch of liars? Yeah right Ray.

It's funny how lots of facts have to be ignore for all this to become a lie. Seriously, you're so partisan it's painful. You'll see only what fits your agenda. This isn't even a debate, because you're not debating here.

Then show me one instance where a law was written to give tax breaks to large businesses that they didn't give to small businesses in the same field.

Also note that it's Republicans that want to have a flat tax system. Democrats want to fight that all the way.

Walmart may have more write-offs than mom and pop shops, but it's not because of additional write-offs that they are provided, it's because as a larger organization, they have more write-offs.

I'm a landlord and I compete against big corporate apartment buildings. I'm doing fine. They are not getting any more deductions than I am. Yes, they have more deductions because they are a larger enterprise, but they are not getting special deductions that I don't get. We all get the same in this business.

I'm really not sure what you're asking that for.

You know, or you should do if you have at least one eye open, that companies like Amazon, Walmart etc are getting massive tax breaks when other companies aren't. Please tell me you know this is true.

Yes, the Republicans want a flat tax. I'm not sure why you've brought this up here. Even with a flat tax, companies like Walmart, Amazon and the rest would be paying "political donations" and then getting special deals different to other companies, only they'd be paying EVEN LESS than they are now.

So what does a flat tax have to do with what we're talking about?

So, you're saying that if Walmart earns $480 billion, and a small grocery store earns $480,000, that as a percentage of this money, Walmart will be equal to the small grocery store?

If you are saying this, can you back this up?

Find Out If Your Tax Rate Is Higher Than Walmart's

"most people pay something near what the government sets as the tax rate for their income."

"The same is not always true of corporations. "

" While the United States has the highest statutory corporate tax among industrialized nations (39.1 percent), corporations have a greater number of ways to bring that tax bill down."

Corporate Tax Explorer

Pepco holdings pays -33%.

Yes, it pays MINUS THIRTY THREE PERCENT.

Are you telling me this is fair?

Pepco holdings earns $480 million in profits in 2012

It paid -$76 million in tax. Why the hell is it paying MINUS tax?

Only one year from 2008-2012 did it pay plus tax, and that was $9 million, compared to $584 million it gained from the tax people.

State tax rate -9%

Are you telling me this is the same as the guy competing with them? Come off it.

People who have businesses are allowed to write off expenses, and they all work the same. Why did I bring up the flat tax? Because your assertion is that taxes are unfair based on the business or size of business.

Does everybody get a tax break offer? No, not if it's not an investment for a city or state. If a small company wants tax breaks to move into a city, and they are only going to hire 25 or so people, it's a loss for the city and they don't need it. A city won't open up a new industrial area or create new streets for a business that isn't going to produce a lot of tax revenue for the city.

As for the standard tax write offs for myself, larger apartment buildings have more write offs than I do. If they repave their parking lot, that could cost them 70K or more. If I repave mine, probably closer to 5K. They hire people to show apartments, take applications, and forward them to the company. They have to hire lawyers to get back rent, evict people, and settle possible lawsuits against them. I don't have any of those expenses. They have in ground swimming pools, some have spas and workout rooms. I don't have any those things. So they have much more to write off than I do, and there is nothing unfair about that.

 

[theHawk]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

 

[eddiew37]

Pardon Me,,,,,,,Trump asking about rules governing pardons for his family and himself.....the odor coming from him and his businesses stinks to high heaven

 

[rightwinger]

Naw, I call it humane. But if you think that a poor girl from the ghetto has the same opportunities you and I had, you are deluding yourself.

So please explain: what opportunities didn't she have???

The best one I can think of is ,,born in a ghetto to parents who to put it politely have no right to have any children

Everybody has a right to have children as long as it's not the taxpayer supporting them. If you can afford to support six children, by all means, have six children. If you want six children and want me to support them, that is something you don't have a right to.

And if you have 6 kids & are supporting them without help and then get a disease and can no longer work, they should take their kids to the Children Shelter & get them adopted out. Maybe they lose their jobs? Maybe they lose their spouse?

I love it. Your ilk wants to reduce access to birth control for poor people & then ***** when they have children. Proof of how ******* stupid you people are.

Oh yeah, I'm sure all those food stamp users with four or five kids that I see all the time at the grocery store were supporting them just fine with their six figure a year job until they got a disease. Talk about stupid fucken people........

So who reduced birth control to poor people? How did they do that, send a person to every store where birth control was sold and stop the people who looked poor from going in?

Who is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood?

The very organization that has been advocating family planning for 100 years. Then you complain if someone has five kids

 

[rightwinger]

You are forgetting something Ray. Russia is a well known adversary of US not a friendly ally of US.
Any meeting with adversary such as Russia is not a good idea.
With so much secret meetings then lie after lie about Russians you should ask yourself. Why and WTF is going on?
Unfortunately you seems not to understand any of that. Will it make any difference if he has a meeting with Hitler?

That would be worrisome since Hitler is dead. Having conversations with dead people should qualify you for the funny farm.........unless you're Hillary of course who openly said she had conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt. Because if you're a Dem, that qualifies you to run for President.

Yes, having a meeting with an adversary is not good, but trying to reestablish diplomatic relationships with an adversary (Cuba) is a little worse I think.

That is a good example of philosophical rebuttal.
I asked you several questions over and over on several post but you have not answered any.
Why all the secret meetings with the Russians and then lied? WHY?

That's funny. Russia's ICBM is pointed in your head but Cuba isn't. Yet you adore Putin. You are not a conservative nor a Republican.

Diplomatic relations is okay but kissing and adoring Putin, protecting Putin against his own intelligence is NOT acceptable.

Again you can give any excuses or however you protect Trump. This is NOT making America Great.

I'm not protecting anybody. What he did was not all that earth shattering. Not a good move? Perhaps, but nothing to make a big deal over. It was not illegal and I'm sure the Clintons would have jumped at the same opportunity, although as professional criminals, they would have found a way to do so without anybody knowing.

His only fault is that he lied about it when asked. More than likely since nothing even happened, he probably forgot about it anyway. But once the cat was out of the bag, he willingly gave all his emails pertaining to the subject which is exact opposite of what Hil-Liar did when asked for hers. She bleach bitted them.

The Trump campaign was either stupid or corrupt

When the Russians come to you offering secrets that you can use against your opponent, anyone with any degree of skepticism would realize something is up and you need legal advice. I know nothing about politics but I would have suspected a setup

No, Hillary would not have done the same. Very few politicians would

 

[SmokeALib]

Walmart has lower prices because they fight to get lower prices. It doesn't have anything to do with government. In fact Walmart is one of our customers largest customers. We used to pick up material for our customer to make their products for Walmart, but Walmart complained they didn't make it cheap enough. So our customer had to get rid of their vendor here in Cleveland and we lost that delivery; that was about two to three trailer loads a week.

Prior to that they used a company for years that made plastic parts for them. The problem was the company never kept up with automation, so our customer went with another company that did so they could produce cheaper plastic parts. We still have the delivery from the new company (since they were a customer of ours already) but it's a much shorter haul and we make less money on it.

I know all about Walmart.

Walmart get lower prices because they BRIBE to get lower prices. The only reason it's not called "bribery" is because it's legitimate. It's legitimate because the govt says so. That doesn't make it MORAL.

It also has a LOT to do with the govt.

The issue here is "would Walmart be able to do what they do, if they were working on a level playing field?"

The answer is clearly "no".

That much should be perfectly clear.

Walmart benefits from billions in government subsidies: Study

"The report estimates that Walmart.....collectively profit from nearly $7.8 billion per year in federal subsidies and tax breaks."

Okay, that's $7.8 billion of govt money that's going to this one company.

Okay, so Walmart can pay their employees less than they should be earning. Why? Why do you support the govt giving handouts to people who are actually working?

Walmart pays its employees less, because they're getting govt help, this means they can charge less for their products. Meaning companies who pay their employees the correct wage are going to have to charge higher prices for their products.

All because of what the GOVERNMENT has done.

Subsidies the same, they can charge less and less.

Okay, in 2016 Walmart had an income of around $482 billion. Profit of $121 billion. So, you're looking at a profit of 1/4.

Walmart Income Statement, Annual, 2017, 2016 - Amigobulls

Let's do a little role play here.

There's a grocery store called "Ray's Groceries". It has a yearly revenue of $482,000 and profits of $121,000. It pays its staff the correct wage, it doesn't get any govt subsidies. Let's make up another number. The company pays 25% in Federal and State taxes. That means it paid $120,500 in taxes last year. That also means $24 million is being spent in the city on groceries.

Now, in this city there are 50 grocery stores, and they all earn exactly the same as "Ray's Groceries", they all pay the same tax, they all do the same thing, because it's an easier example than trying to find real stuff out and you wouldn't appreciate it anyway. That means the govts are making $6 million. Local people are making 6 million too. This money will go back into the local economy.

Now, Walmart moves in to the city. Walmart moves in because instead of paying 25% in federal and local taxes, Walmart gets to pay 5% in federal and local taxes (am I being generous?).

So this Walmart store is there. It's products are cheaper. It pays workers less. More people got to shop at the local Walmart store than in the other stores.

So, the amount "Ray's Groceries" earns is halved. They earn $241,000 in the first year Walmart is operating. Walmart takes in $12 million that year. Each of the other Grocery Stores loses money.

The Grocery stores are suddenly paying the governments $3 million a year. Walmart is paying the the governments $602,500. This means the governments have LOST $2.4 million a year, and Walmart has gained $2.4 million a year it's not paying in taxes.

It's also paying workers less. So the governments have to pick up the tab there too.

The Walmart profits are $3 million for what it took from the local stores, and $2.4 million from the govt not making it pay taxes. That's $5.4 million.

But the govts need money. So they charge the local people more in taxes to make up the $2.4 million they're losing. The $3 million they make in profits is NOT going back into the local economy.

This means the next year, instead of the 50 groceries stories making a combined $24 million, they're making $21 million. Walmart is taking 50% of this $21 million.

So, the 50 stories are making $10.5 million a year, that's $210,000 a year for the 50 stories, instead of $241,000 they made the year before. Profits are going down. Each year profits go down as less and less money goes back into the local economy. Suddenly Ray's Groceries former competitor shuts down. The people who shopped there go off to Walmart, who suck more money out of the economy, the govt puts up taxes again. The people who worked for the competitor then go work at Walmart, as they're busier than ever, they need more staff, who earn less, and go collect from the govt every so often.

Then Ray's closes down, and then there are only three left, trying to function in the shadow of Walmart.

Are you telling me this is because Walmart was "better"?

No, Walmart was not operating on a level playing field, it could sell its products CHEAPER because the GOVT gave them a sweet deal. Had it been a level playing field, Walmart would have opened into a competitive market, it might have gained a small share of the market, but as it was it sucked the blood dry.

So you know ALL about Walmart? Well that's not really the point. Walmart might have been able to increase its position in the economy being being efficient in the past, and it might very well be efficient now. But what we're talking about here Ray, isn't whether they're more efficient or not, it's whether the govt is giving them an unfair advantage over other competitors, and is destroying local businesses, so that everyone goes to work at Walmart, and then goes on the govt payroll too.

So you don't even read your own links? It sure seems that way.

According to YOUR article, most of those subsidies were not subsidies at all. They were welfare handouts to the workers which Walmart has nothing to do with. Walmart does not sit in Congress. Walmart does not control the Senate. Walmart is not in the White House. It's POLITICIANS who give people welfare--not Walmart, and in fact, DumBama doubled the food stamp role once he took office--Walmart didn't.

See.......this is why you can't trust left-wing media. They're all a bunch of liars. As for larger companies, they get no more tax write-offs than any other store that sells the same goods. I work for a small trucking company. There are trucking companies twenty times the size of us or more in our area, yet my employer is doing just fine and has been in business over 35 years. He competes fine against them. In fact, since I've been with this company, some of them have even shut down and others have sold out.

Oh, I read the link and I understood what it was. The point still stands and you're still ignorning most of what I say because it's not convenient for you.

A bunch of liars? Yeah right Ray.

It's funny how lots of facts have to be ignore for all this to become a lie. Seriously, you're so partisan it's painful. You'll see only what fits your agenda. This isn't even a debate, because you're not debating here.

Then show me one instance where a law was written to give tax breaks to large businesses that they didn't give to small businesses in the same field.

Also note that it's Republicans that want to have a flat tax system. Democrats want to fight that all the way.

Walmart may have more write-offs than mom and pop shops, but it's not because of additional write-offs that they are provided, it's because as a larger organization, they have more write-offs.

I'm a landlord and I compete against big corporate apartment buildings. I'm doing fine. They are not getting any more deductions than I am. Yes, they have more deductions because they are a larger enterprise, but they are not getting special deductions that I don't get. We all get the same in this business.

I'm really not sure what you're asking that for.

You know, or you should do if you have at least one eye open, that companies like Amazon, Walmart etc are getting massive tax breaks when other companies aren't. Please tell me you know this is true.

Yes, the Republicans want a flat tax. I'm not sure why you've brought this up here. Even with a flat tax, companies like Walmart, Amazon and the rest would be paying "political donations" and then getting special deals different to other companies, only they'd be paying EVEN LESS than they are now.

So what does a flat tax have to do with what we're talking about?

So, you're saying that if Walmart earns $480 billion, and a small grocery store earns $480,000, that as a percentage of this money, Walmart will be equal to the small grocery store?

If you are saying this, can you back this up?

Find Out If Your Tax Rate Is Higher Than Walmart's

"most people pay something near what the government sets as the tax rate for their income."

"The same is not always true of corporations. "

" While the United States has the highest statutory corporate tax among industrialized nations (39.1 percent), corporations have a greater number of ways to bring that tax bill down."

Corporate Tax Explorer

Pepco holdings pays -33%.

Yes, it pays MINUS THIRTY THREE PERCENT.

Are you telling me this is fair?

Pepco holdings earns $480 million in profits in 2012

It paid -$76 million in tax. Why the hell is it paying MINUS tax?

Only one year from 2008-2012 did it pay plus tax, and that was $9 million, compared to $584 million it gained from the tax people.

State tax rate -9%

Are you telling me this is the same as the guy competing with them? Come off it.

How about corporations pay ZERO taxes?

 

[danielpalos]

1. There are NO liberals that will say that other places are better than America. Prove to us who say that. It's people like you that plugged in these kind of lies Ray. It's your unpresidential leader that plugged in a lot of garbage that we are a no better than third world countries.
Who loves America? Let see ---- You have a foreign adversary invaded our democracy during election. That is acceptable to you and the rest of your group. Since when that is acceptable to real conservative? That is traitorism. Your president products are made from foreign countries and workers from foreign countries. At the same time his motto Buy Americans and Hire Americans. That is hypocritism. You supported that. The never ending kissing Putin ass. You and the rest of supported that. We NEVER supported that kind of garbage because we love our country.

Nobody invaded our election system liar. They invaded the DNC server under the leadership of big ears. That's it. Only the MSM has the puppet strings on people like you who promote their lies.

Yes, it is the leftists position that other countries do things better than we do. If you participated in more forums, you'd see it for yourself. Don't expect me to go through hundreds of topics to find them for you. If you don't believe me, fine. Stay ignorant for all I care.

2. Racism. Really Ray? I know you very well about racism. Do you want me to bring it up?

I didn't bring it up--you did. Show me where I said anything about racism in the OP. Liar.

3. Our country is always been great and the best Ray. You got it backwards. Your leader said the other way. Why do you plugged all these lies Ray.

I didn't write any lies. What I said is that you leftists constantly tell us Republicans how much better other countries have it than ours. If that's the way you feel, then you obviously don't love this country because you are always telling us how we are second fiddle to socialist countries.

4.1. Health Care. Really? Who is trying to repeal and replace Obamacare with a garbage Trumpcare? Just to say they repeal and replace Obamacare.

Yes, we are trying to eliminate Commie Care. It's the worst piece and most expensive legislation in decades. It gave some (likely Democrat voters) healthcare and took from others (likely Republican voters) while the only goal was to create as many new government dependents as possible. By the DumBama's own administration, they created over 20 million more new government dependents. Only a liberal would see this as a plus in this country.

4.2. Guns. Nobody will yank your dick from your pants Ray. Trump wants you to believe that. We do believe in 2nd amendment and all we are saying are sensible gun laws. Like this EO by Trump. This is not acceptable.

Trump signs bill reversing Obama rule to ban gun purchases by mentally ill

Right, because we had so many murders by SS people who went crazy and killed people. You don't even know when politics is being played right in front of your eyes.

4.3. Education, Government Structure, Immigration, Justice ------ So what system had you proposed Ray? Like What?

We proposed building a wall. We proposed Kate's law which would imprison returning felons after being deported which the Democrats stopped. Democrats want illegal immigrant felons here killing our people and selling drugs. We don't.

4.4. So you prefer they take money from poor people like YOU a truck driver??

Nearly half of our population don't pay into our income tax system. The enjoy the benefits provided by the other half that do pay into our government system. Perhaps if we all paid federal income tax, and had it increased on everybody when some liberal proposes government healthcare, free college, paid leave, maybe it would give those people something to think about before they support such candidates.

Nothing is free. Free to a liberal is giving people things and making somebody else pay for it.

4.5 Change election system. Like what Ray??Did you or Trump proposed anything garbage? Like let the Russians invade our democracy?

They never invaded our democracy liar. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

5.0. So let me ask you this question and I need you to answer it.
What/How/Where/Who ----- made you think Liberals don't love this country? Example?
Who love this country better? See 1.0.

If you love this country so much, why are you always trying to change it to other countries that's already out there?

Bullcrap. You rebuttal are nothing but full of distortion and still full of lies.
I asked you ---- who said that other countries is better than US? You didnt answer my question. There are no such liberals that will say something like that. This country is always been great. We love this country. It was Trump who said other countries are better than us. But you are in denial. I've participated in many forums and I have not seen one single liberals that say this country is no better than third world countries. You lied.

I never heard of Commie-care and DumBama ---- So try again.

Wall is nothing but a waste of tax payers money. Id rather spend that money helping your kids get college educations.

Democrats wants illegals kill Americans? Only idiot will say something like that. Are you saying that all 20 millions illegals are all criminals and selling drugs?

Russian invaded our democracy by meddling into our election. Russia an enemy of America but Trump think it's a lover. You supported that. You need to explain that to republicans investigating Trump why you think that is acceptable.

Guns----I gave you a good example why liberals hate gun nuts and it's acceptable to a gun nuts like you that mentally retarded people can buy guns. Do you have any decency left in your worthless soul?

There is a large part of this country that are really poor and no matter how they tried they are stuck poor. God blessed me with gift and good health I don't have problem helping them.

Nearly half of population don't pay tax. Really? Prove it. Trump don't pay taxes but illegals pay taxes.

Racism? You brought it up Ray read your post #1 second paragraph. Why do you lie Ray?

Make America GREAT AGAIN?? When did it stop Ray ?? Trump is doing his best to bring it to a screeching halt

No, only liberal activist judges are.

I agree to disagree. It is alleged conservatives who are the problem.