What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Zone1 Do Christians Proselytize out of “Love” - or Arrogance?

surada

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
44,457
Reaction score
19,297
Points
2,488
Yes, of course the Romana put up the sign. That was to warn off any other Jews from doing the same as Jesus did, or they’d end up the same.

The soldiers were mocking Jesus. Rome didn't care about Jesus. He was no threat to them. Jesus never challenged Roman authority. His kingdom was not of this world.
 
OP
L

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
10,876
Reaction score
11,138
Points
2,118
Messiah means appointed one. The prophecy said that a King like David would rise up. This was the appointed one (Messiah) looked for by the Jews during the time of Jesus. Even some at that time thought he was to be the one who would bring independent rule to the Jews.

Jesus insisted on two things. First, he was sent by God/appointed by God to bring Good News to the lost of Israel. Second, he was not the Messiah people were looking for to bring about their independent rule. He was a Messiah appointed to a different goal.
The Messiah is supposed to be descended from the House of David, and Jesus was not - and knew it.
 

surada

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
44,457
Reaction score
19,297
Points
2,488
The Messiah is supposed to be descended from the House of David, and Jesus was not - and knew it.

Correct..and Jesus wasn't an anointed warrior king who vanquished the enemies of the Jews.
 

JustAGuy1

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
12,708
Reaction score
11,390
Points
2,140
The Messiah is supposed to be descended from the House of David, and Jesus was not - and knew it.

You are free to have your own beliefs but not your own facts. You and Surada are attempting to rewrite the Bible.
 

JustAGuy1

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
12,708
Reaction score
11,390
Points
2,140
Correct..and Jesus wasn't an anointed warrior king who vanquished the enemies of the Jews.

Now you are denying who Jesus is. If He isn't from the Tribe of Judah descended from David He can't be your Savior
 

norwegen

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
10,973
Reaction score
6,066
Points
1,055
Location
Ormond Beach, FL
Christians believe Jesus was Judah via his mother.

I don't know how anyone can expect a Jewish Messiah nowadays, since Judah can scarce be found.
 

Meriweather

Not all who wander are lost
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
11,236
Reaction score
1,991
Points
165
It was definitely Paul.
It was all of the Apostles and all the authors of the New Testament. Paul was just one. Matthew was absolutely brilliant. He used the Hebrew Bible as a foreshadowing of his Gospel. Or, another way, his Gospel was an overlay over the Hebrew Bible. While not exact or very precise (it couldn't be), If one knew the story of the Jews, one knew the story of Jesus--and vice-versa. If one knew the story of Jesus, they knew the story of the Jews.

Matthew can be criticized for using poetic license by those who want exact renderings of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, but from a literary standpoint of giving people a general idea of God's ongoing plans for mankind, Matthew (my opinion) was brilliant.
 

JustAGuy1

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
12,708
Reaction score
11,390
Points
2,140
Did Jesus conqueror the Romans or chase them out of the holy land? Was he king of Israel?

Good Lord you truly are ignorant of the Bible. Of course not and that is why the Jews rejected Him, He was however descended from David and that is why He is OUR Messiah. Whatever you paid for your education was very clearly too much.
 

Meriweather

Not all who wander are lost
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
11,236
Reaction score
1,991
Points
165
The Messiah is supposed to be descended from the House of David, and Jesus was not - and knew it.
Of the ten times "Son of David" appears in the Gospels, six of them are in Matthew's account, through the line of of Joseph. Through marriage to Joseph, Mary's children would continue that line. The issue then becomes does Jesus being a mamzer make him ineligible to this title?

Some theorize that including the genealogy (where four are not even Jewish) would make Jesus equally legitimate to be addressed as a 'Son of David'.
 

Meriweather

Not all who wander are lost
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
11,236
Reaction score
1,991
Points
165
That we are children of Satan.
Jesus was speaking to a specific group that was trying to find a reason to have him put to death. He was not speaking to a not well-liked political group, not the Jewish nation.

To this select group in the Temple area, Jesus said he was speaking the Word of God, and they should listen to him. These Jews said their father was Abraham. Jesus responded that if they were children of Abraham, then they should act as Abraham acted. Jesus said he had spoken the truth to them, the truth he heard from God--and that Abraham had never tried to kill anyone who spoke words from God.

The few people who were accosting Jesus were trying to have him killed. Jesus said he was from God, and if God was their Father they would hear and understand what he was teaching. The reason they could not was that God was not their Father, and since they were speaking lies about him and had murder in their hearts towards him, their father must be the devil, who is the father of falsehood.

I am certain the great majority of Jews--both then and now--do not speak lies nor do they have murder in their hearts.
 

Bonzi

Diamond Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
43,019
Reaction score
15,979
Points
2,290
Thank you.

One thing that you said that is confusing to me, and that is your mention that one is drawn to G-d through correct or Gdly messaging (and that you can’t “scare” someone into it). But Jews are already drawn to G-d, and mindful of His covenant with us. It doesn’t need a proselytizer to get us to that point….we are already there.

I believe there are some that have no relationship with God, but, can obtain a relationship with Him via revelation or awakening
 
OP
L

Lisa558

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2021
Messages
10,876
Reaction score
11,138
Points
2,118
Jesus was speaking to a specific group that was trying to find a reason to have him put to death. He was not speaking to a not well-liked political group, not the Jewish nation.

To this select group in the Temple area, Jesus said he was speaking the Word of God, and they should listen to him. These Jews said their father was Abraham. Jesus responded that if they were children of Abraham, then they should act as Abraham acted. Jesus said he had spoken the truth to them, the truth he heard from God--and that Abraham had never tried to kill anyone who spoke words from God.

The few people who were accosting Jesus were trying to have him killed. Jesus said he was from God, and if God was their Father they would hear and understand what he was teaching. The reason they could not was that God was not their Father, and since they were speaking lies about him and had murder in their hearts towards him, their father must be the devil, who is the father of falsehood.

I am certain the great majority of Jews--both then and now--do not speak lies nor do they have murder in their hearts.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke speak of the Sanhedrin, and John opens it up with a more broad description “the Jews.” This sadly has been used by bigots for 2,000 years to persecute, expel, and murder Jews by the millions. John specifically has provided antisemites with justification for their hatred toward us.

So why would he say “the Jews,” prone to misinterpretation that it is all Jews? My thought is that it reflects the ongoing frustration by 1st century Christians to the Jews of the same era who held steadfast to the covenant with G-d, and refused to convert.
 

surada

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
44,457
Reaction score
19,297
Points
2,488
Good Lord you truly are ignorant of the Bible. Of course not and that is why the Jews rejected Him, He was however descended from David and that is why He is OUR Messiah. Whatever you paid for your education was very clearly too much.

Jesus just isn't the Messiah expected by the Jews
Grow up, nincompoop.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$253.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top