Zone1 Do Christians Proselytize out of “Love” - or Arrogance?

[Likkmee]

Didn't you just know when you started this thread Lisa558 that the biggest, least intelligent mouth on this board was going to be unable to resist chiming in?

One of the things I admire most about Jews is the fact that they don't proselytize. I strongly dislike any religious proselytizing.

I dunno. It was a Jew that repaired my Prostelazion(trouble peeing) ???. He was an artist with that roto rooter thingie. When I got out of recovery he even offered me a deal on some real estate !

 

[irosie91]

I dunno. It was a Jew that repaired my Prostelazion(trouble peeing) ???. He was an artist with that roto rooter thingie. When I got out of recovery he even offered me a deal on some real estate !

no matter who REAMED OUT YOUR URETHRA---your religion is unchanged

 

[Likkmee]

no matter who REAMED OUT YOUR URETHRA---your religion is unchanged

True.
Thou shalt loveth Aretha Franklin forevahhh !

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I dunno. It was a Jew that repaired my Prostelazion(trouble peeing) ???. He was an artist with that roto rooter thingie. When I got out of recovery he even offered me a deal on some real estate !

My husband's spine and hip surgery were also performed by a Jew. Splendid job.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Again, that is just your opinion. I wish you could understand that. Other religions teach differently.

My covenant with G-d remains valid. If there is a Heaven, I have as good a chance as any decent person of seeing it.

No. You do not. Yeshua made ir EXPLICITLY clear He is the ONLY way to the Father because He is G-d Almighty as well as the Father.

 

[Lisa558]

No. You do not. Yeshua made ir EXPLICITLY clear He is the ONLY way to the Father because He is G-d Almighty as well as the Father.

Thank you for demonstrating the arrogance I mentioned in the first post.

 

[JustAGuy1]

LOL, thread jumped off the rails.

 

[Likkmee]

No. You do not. Yeshua made ir EXPLICITLY clear He is the ONLY way to the Father because He is G-d Almighty as well as the Father.

For any dual-citizens that may be browsing this thread.
Yeshua="nigga gots da key" Word ?
Jesuchristo= " Mae. Tengo llave aqui" Solamente uno !
Putin= "Я ключ, ты ебаный украинец"

 

[GMCGeneral]

Thank you for demonstrating the arrogance I mentioned in the first post.

Not arrogance, proclaiming the Truth.

 

[Lisa558]

Not arrogance, proclaiming the Truth.

The truth as you see it. Others believe something different is the truth. The arrogance is that you are proclaiming YOUR opinion to be “the truth” - and continuing to insist upon it to those whose religion teaches different beliefs.

It is arrogant and disrespectful to keep hammering away about “the Truth” to a Jew whose religion teaches otherwise - and insisting it is a fact. This is what I was talking about it the OP.

 

[Meriweather]

No. You do not. Yeshua made ir EXPLICITLY clear He is the ONLY way to the Father because He is G-d Almighty as well as the Father.

It is unfair to drive a wedge between Jesus and Jews. The High Priests of the Temple in Jesus' time were out of touch with the poor, and the tax burdens that were being placed on them. They were more concerned with their own problems, keeping head and shoulders above water amidst their Roman rulers. The fact that their fellow Jews were losing their land and livelihood seemed to be taking second place. Maintaining their own power took precedence. (Imagine how some of us feel about today's Democratic leadership cozily content in their DC bubble while so many scrounge for gas and grocery money.)

The Jews in that time had been accustomed to traveling to where rabbis and/or prophets resided--John-the-Baptist at the Jordan River is one example. However, there were people too poor to take a day off for even that much travel. This was added to the worry of not being able to pay their Temple Tax or make their Temple sacrifice, which left their Temple outside of their reach. All of us should be able to imagine the additional depression and heartache this caused.

Jesus had a message for all these people, which was to remind them of their own heritage and what they had learned in other periods of hard times. The first thing he did was to go to the people who could not come to him. He reminded them of Hebrew teachings, but instead of reciting well-known stories and scriptures, he changed things up by teaching these same lessons using his own parables.

He reminded them sins are forgiven; that the sacrifice God desires is not a burnt offering, but mercy towards all. He reawakened within them the Jewish spirit of hospitality. He reassured them that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Instead of adding more worries to the Jewish populace, he reminded them of who they are and gave them rest from their worries.

This was Jesus the Proselytizer if you will. He did not tell the poor and the weary they were doing it all wrong. He did not lash them for not doing something a certain way. Anyone who begins Jesus' message by telling people what they are doing wrong is not following in Jesus' steps.

 

[norwegen]

norwegen

The Saducees controlled the temple.. maybe the moneychangers we're Edomites.

Pharisees, Sadducees, Edomites, Great Sanhedrin | Who Is America?

12tribehistory.com

Yes, according to Josephus (Wars 2.8.2).

The Pharisees derived their authority from Torah and the Mosaic Law. The Sadducees, the higher priesthood and nobility, centered their authority on the temple.

 

[surada]

Yes, according to Josephus (Wars 2.8.2).

The Pharisees derived their authority from Torah and the Mosaic Law. The Sadducees, the higher priesthood and nobility, centered their authority on the temple.

Thanks. I really appreciate your input.

 

[Lisa558]

It is unfair to drive a wedge between Jesus and Jews. The High Priests of the Temple in Jesus' time were out of touch with the poor, and the tax burdens that were being placed on them. They were more concerned with their own problems, keeping head and shoulders above water amidst their Roman rulers. The fact that their fellow Jews were losing their land and livelihood seemed to be taking second place. Maintaining their own power took precedence. (Imagine how some of us feel about today's Democratic leadership cozily content in their DC bubble while so many scrounge for gas and grocery money.)

The Jews in that time had been accustomed to traveling to where rabbis and/or prophets resided--John-the-Baptist at the Jordan River is one example. However, there were people too poor to take a day off for even that much travel. This was added to the worry of not being able to pay their Temple Tax or make their Temple sacrifice, which left their Temple outside of their reach. All of us should be able to imagine the additional depression and heartache this caused.

Jesus had a message for all these people, which was to remind them of their own heritage and what they had learned in other periods of hard times. The first thing he did was to go to the people who could not come to him. He reminded them of Hebrew teachings, but instead of reciting well-known stories and scriptures, he changed things up by teaching these same lessons using his own parables.

He reminded them sins are forgiven; that the sacrifice God desires is not a burnt offering, but mercy towards all. He reawakened within them the Jewish spirit of hospitality. He reassured them that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Instead of adding more worries to the Jewish populace, he reminded them of who they are and gave them rest from their worries.

This was Jesus the Proselytizer if you will. He did not tell the poor and the weary they were doing it all wrong. He did not lash them for not doing something a certain way. Anyone who begins Jesus' message by telling people what they are doing wrong is not following in Jesus' steps.

Thanks so much. You get it.

The Jewish religion teaches wonderful values, and Jesus, for the most part, was sermonizing about those same values. He was obviously a follower of Hillel, and used many of his messages. (The “do unto others” is a slight change-around from Hillel’s “that which is distateful to you do not do unto others.”) To have (some) Christians continue to tell Jews they will not see heaven unless they abandon their religion, and their covenant with G-d, reflects very poorly on those Christians doing it.

Some years back, some preachers spoke of the dual-covenant theory, in which Jews are not required to accept Jesus. It was recanted, though, when there was a strong pushback from fundamentalist Christians who couldn’t stomach the idea. You seem to already be aware of G-d’s everlasting covenant with the Jewish people, based on your earlier postings.

 

[Meriweather]

Some years back, some preachers spoke of the dual-covenant theory, in which Jews are not required to accept Jesus. It was recanted, though, when there was a strong pushback from fundamentalist Christians who couldn’t stomach the idea. You seem to already be aware of G-d’s everlasting covenant with the Jewish people, based on your earlier postings.

We were taught (Catholic school) that the words "Testament" and "Covenant" are more or less synonymous. When we studied the Old Testament Covenant, right in front of our eyes, it said that the Covenant is everlasting. Many of the stories emphasized over and over again, that no matter how far people/even the nation strayed, God went on keeping His part of the Covenant.

Jesus said he was establishing a New Covenant--and he didn't say one word about doing away with the first covenant. No one goes back on God's word, certainly not Jesus who is the Word (Christian belief).

Fundamentalist at that time did not have a leg to stand on. I don't know if some of them are now re-thinking this.

 

[Lisa558]

We were taught (Catholic school) that the words "Testament" and "Covenant" are more or less synonymous. When we studied the Old Testament Covenant, right in front of our eyes, it said that the Covenant is everlasting. Many of the stories emphasized over and over again, that no matter how far people/even the nation strayed, God went on keeping His part of the Covenant.

Jesus said he was establishing a New Covenant--and he didn't say one word about doing away with the first covenant. No one goes back on God's word, certainly not Jesus who is the Word (Christian belief).

Fundamentalist at that time did not have a leg to stand on. I don't know if some of them are now re-thinking this.

Thank you again. Yes, G-d’s covenant with the Jewish people is everlasting. He does not go back on his promise.

The dual-covenant approach might make for an interestimg thread, and I’ll do some research on its current status within Christianity before I start it.

 

[Meriweather]

The dual-covenant approach might make for an interestimg thread, and I’ll do some research on its current status within Christianity before I start it.

That sounds promising. Thank you.

 

[Lisa558]

That sounds promising. Thank you.

You’re welcome. I found an interesting article on Dual Covenant Theory v Replacement Theory, and it seems - unfortunately, from the Jewish perspective - that Christians are not accepting of the idea of G-d’s everlasting covenant with Jews. It’s too late to start a new thread on this now, but look for it in the next day or two. I will certainly appreciate your input.

 

[Meriweather]

You’re welcome. I found an interesting article on Dual Covenant Theory v Replacement Theory, and it seems - unfortunately, from the Jewish perspective - that Christians are not accepting of the idea of G-d’s everlasting covenant with Jews. It’s too late to start a new thread on this now, but look for it in the next day or two. I will certainly appreciate your input.

I look forward to the thread. In the meantime I will read up on the Dual Covenant and Replacement Theories.

 

[GMCGeneral]

It is unfair to drive a wedge between Jesus and Jews. The High Priests of the Temple in Jesus' time were out of touch with the poor, and the tax burdens that were being placed on them. They were more concerned with their own problems, keeping head and shoulders above water amidst their Roman rulers. The fact that their fellow Jews were losing their land and livelihood seemed to be taking second place. Maintaining their own power took precedence. (Imagine how some of us feel about today's Democratic leadership cozily content in their DC bubble while so many scrounge for gas and grocery money.)

The Jews in that time had been accustomed to traveling to where rabbis and/or prophets resided--John-the-Baptist at the Jordan River is one example. However, there were people too poor to take a day off for even that much travel. This was added to the worry of not being able to pay their Temple Tax or make their Temple sacrifice, which left their Temple outside of their reach. All of us should be able to imagine the additional depression and heartache this caused.

Jesus had a message for all these people, which was to remind them of their own heritage and what they had learned in other periods of hard times. The first thing he did was to go to the people who could not come to him. He reminded them of Hebrew teachings, but instead of reciting well-known stories and scriptures, he changed things up by teaching these same lessons using his own parables.

He reminded them sins are forgiven; that the sacrifice God desires is not a burnt offering, but mercy towards all. He reawakened within them the Jewish spirit of hospitality. He reassured them that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Instead of adding more worries to the Jewish populace, he reminded them of who they are and gave them rest from their worries.

This was Jesus the Proselytizer if you will. He did not tell the poor and the weary they were doing it all wrong. He did not lash them for not doing something a certain way. Anyone who begins Jesus' message by telling people what they are doing wrong is not following in Jesus' steps.

Jesus Himself was a Jew. Of the tribe of Judah. That doesn't mean that he in any way abolished the Law. On the contrary, He fulfilled it. Fully man and fully G-d, he alone satisfied the Father's wrath for the sins of the world. Salvation is not automatic, nor can we earn it. Paul wrote that it is a gift freely given. All we have to do is accept it by faith. This is what Yeshua means when he answered Nicodemus and said "Truly I say to you, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of G-d". Jews are looking for a political messiah, one that would bring "peace" to the world. But watch out! Three and a half years into his reign he will begin a wholesale slaughter of Christians AND Jews worldwide and set himself up in the new temple as god.