Zone1 Do Christians Proselytize out of “Love” - or Arrogance?

[irosie91]

Well just so you know my starting point. I am not going to attempt to convince you that since Jesus was Jewish, it means XYZ for you or whatever. In other words you can consider this (what I hope) a rational conversation between two posters. Nothing personal, no ulterior motives.

So that said.

Jesus was a devout Jew. In fact He was the perfect Jew, you might say. He fulfilled the law. So there's no way to deny that He taught primarily Jewish values and lessons--that was God's plan. But of course that's not the full picture either. If it was the full picture I guess there would be no Christians.

Jesus did not, IMO, found christianity AT ALL---full picture

 

[SweetSue92]

Jesus did not, IMO, found christianity AT ALL---full picture

I do not know why you keep trying. Matthew 10:13-14

 

[irosie91]

I do not know why you keep trying. Matthew 10:13-14

"keep trying" .... WHAT? I am not at all impressed
with the random musings of the Roman shill, Matthew
In any case----I do not see the connection between his
trite comment (10:13-14) and anything I have posted

 

[Lisa558]

Jesus did not, IMO, found christianity AT ALL---full picture

It was definitely Paul.

 

[SweetSue92]

It was definitely Paul.

You know what's arrogant?

Telling other people who founded their religion. Self reflection is definitely in order

 

[Lisa558]

I do not know why you keep trying. Matthew 10:13-14

I noticed you didn’t ask GMC General why HE keeps trying. All he’s doing is quoting verses from the New Testament over and over again, as if that would mean anything to a Jew.

We have our own covenant with G-d, promised to Abraham for ALL generations. G-d does not go back on His word.

Just leave the Jews alone instead of trying to destroy their religion. The good among us are destined for heaven (if there is a heaven, which none of us truly knows).

 

[surada]

You know what's arrogant?

Telling other people who founded their religion. Self reflection is definitely in order

It's true.

 

[SweetSue92]

I noticed you didn’t ask GMC General why HE keeps trying. All he’s doing is quoting verses from the New Testament over and over again, as if that would mean anything to a Jew.

We have our own covenant with G-d, promised to Abraham for ALL generations. G-d does not go back on His word.

Just leave the Jews alone instead of trying to destroy their religion. The good among us are destined for heaven (if there is a heaven, which none of us truly knows).

You know what's arrogant?

Telling other religions how they are right and wrong, about their own religion.

As you just did.

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[SweetSue92]

It's true.

The OP does not want a debate on truth. She doesn't want others to be "arrogant". While she dares to tell Christians who founded OUR faith.

 

[Lisa558]

You know what's arrogant?

Telling other people who founded their religion. Self reflection is definitely in order

I was talking to Rosie.

Besides, that comment can’t hold a candle to telling Jews they’re going to hell. A little reflection on your part is definitely in order.

And there’s no need to take your anger and frustration out on a “stubborn Jew” who won’t abandon her religion just because Christians tell her to. (Yes, I know that the ECs teach that Jews are stubborn and that’s why it‘s so hard to convert them. It was in the sermon the EC sent me.)

 

[SweetSue92]

I was talking to Rosie.

Besides, that comment can’t hold a candle to telling Jews they’re going to hell. A little reflection on your part is definitely in order.

And there’s no need to take your anger and frustration out on a “stubborn Jew” who won’t abandon her religion just because Christians tell her to. (Yes, I know that the ECs teach that Jews are stubborn and that’s why it‘s so hard to convert them. It was in the sermon the EC sent me.)

Your OP question is not about you being a stubborn Jew. It's about Christians being arrogant. You are being arrogant by assuming to know who founded the faith I have been in my entire life.

Stop making it about your supposed persecution. I don't care if you are a Jew, stubborn or otherwise. You make an accusation about MY faith, and here you are, doing the same thing.

 

[Lisa558]

You know what's arrogant?

Telling other religions how they are right and wrong, about their own religion.

As you just did.

Physician, heal thyself.

YOU and other ECs are telling Jews that they’re wrong. All the time. You really need to examine what you all are doing.

You enraged because of comments on a message board. That’s NOTHING compared to what ECs put Jews through IN REAL LIFE: telling them they’re going to hell.

How’d you like it if Jews came up to you (we don’t) and told you G-d is angry at you for worshipping a mortal man, and you’re going to hell if you don’t cut it out? (We don’t think that way anyway…..what matters is if you’re a good person.)

 

[surada]

The OP does not want a debate on truth. She doesn't want others to be "arrogant". While she dares to tell Christians who founded OUR faith.

It was Paul moreso than Jesus.

 

[Lisa558]

Your OP question is not about you being a stubborn Jew. It's about Christians being arrogant. You are being arrogant by assuming to know who founded the faith I have been in my entire life.

Stop making it about your supposed persecution. I don't care if you are a Jew, stubborn or otherwise. You make an accusation about MY faith, and here you are, doing the same thing.

So now you know how Jews feel when ECs tell them they are wrong about the Jewish religion, and try to get them to abandon it.

Besides, I am not trying to get you to abandon your religion. I was speaking to another Jew about who started your religion. Again, you get inflamed over that idea, but then have no problem with telling Jews how their entire religion is wrong - and with the goal of destroying Judaism. What you are doing is MUCH worse.

 

[SweetSue92]

So now you know how Jews feel when ECs tell them they are wrong about the Jewish religion, and try to get them to abandon it.

Besides, I am not trying to get you to abandon your religion. I was speaking to another Jew about who started your religion. Again, you get inflamed over that idea, but then have no problem with telling Jews how their entire religion is wrong - and with the goal of destroying Judaism. What you are doing is MUCH worse.

It is amazing to me how otherwise rational and reasonable people can really lose their minds over certain things.

You are a case study. There is just no getting through to you. You had an admittedly terrible experience with one church and you're convinced that Evangelical Christians are all out to strip Jews of their faith. Nothing anyone says to you will convince you otherwise.

Well all right then, honey, it must make you feel good or something. Go your way.

 

[irosie91]

It was definitely Paul.

Sweet Sue seems to suggest that I wrote something AWFUL

 

[Lisa558]

It is amazing to me how otherwise rational and reasonable people can really lose their minds over certain things.

You are a case study. There is just no getting through to you. You had an admittedly terrible experience with one church and you're convinced that Evangelical Christians are all out to strip Jews of their faith. Nothing anyone says to you will convince you otherwise.

Well all right then, honey, it must make you feel good or something. Go your way.

I could say the same about you,

Of course ECs are trying to strip Jews of their faith. What do you think th attempt to get them to believe they need Jesus for salvation is all about? To get them to abandon the key tenent of Judaism.

And yes, I will go my way, confident in G-d’s everlasting covenant. You go your way and believe what you want. Just stop trying to convert Jews and convince them to believe in something that is antithetical to their religion.

 

[Lisa558]

Sweet Sue seems to suggest that I wrote something AWFUL

Sweet Sue doesn’t like when anyone questions the formation of her religion, yet thinks it is appropriate for Christians to tell Jews that unless they abandon Judaism and believe in Jesus, they have no path to G-d.

 

[SweetSue92]

I could say the same about you,

Of course ECs are trying to strip Jews of their faith. What do you think th attempt to get them to believe they need Jesus for salvation is all about? To get them to abandon the key tenement of Judaism - and Judaism.

And yes, I will go my way, confident in G-d’s everlasting covenant. You go your way and believe what you want. Just stop trying to convert Jews and convince them to believe in something that it antithetical to their religion.

You realize you ran into one very peculiar church and you refuse to believe this is not the case with all Evangelical Churches, no matter what I or anyone else says, right?

I....guess you wouldn't take well to it if someone ran into a congregation of out-there Jews, you said 'hey that's not representative', and the person went clanging on about how XYZ "the Jews" are. You might even say that's bigoted.

 

[SweetSue92]

Sweet Sue doesn’t like when anyone questions the formation of her religion, yet thinks it is appropriate for Christians to tell Jews that unless they abandon Judaism and believe in Jesus, they have no path to G-d.

Oh honey. You could not be more wrong about that. I love to debate religion, mine included. But I'm not supposed to do that, per your rules. Saying to you that Jesus Christ is the only way to God is "arrogant", remember? I guess even stating that this is basic Christian doctrine is also "arrogant".

So what am I to do then? No debating.