Zone1 Do Christians Proselytize out of “Love” - or Arrogance?

[Lisa558]

I can't keep shadow boxing every single thing that you find wrong with Evangelical Christians here. It's a dump of stuff--and I'm guessing you would hate it if any poster started listing every bad run in, every offense they've ever had with a Jew right on down. "Jews do this, Jews do this, yadda yadda". Usually, those people are frankly anti-Semitic. That's what I would call it.

Disappointing. I found you a rational and informed poster.

CEs need to face up to the fact that people of other religions dislike tremendously when they insist that all others are wrong, and only Christians are right.

What you want is to be able to tell everyone else that their religion is wrong, and expect no pushback or criticism. Well news flash: it’s obnoxious to try to convert others or “share the news” when they haven’t asked for it.

People may be polite when you tell them how wrong they are, but believe me….they don’t like it one bit. Nothing wrong with pointing it out to you.

 

[BS Filter]

I am mentally ill because YOU believe that during the life-time of Jesus ---"christian haters
told him what to do"???? and because I question a writing attributed to a Roman shill but which was authored by an unknown person??. And then included in Constantine's ---emperor or ROME--book? Do you always just swallow every writing WHOLE?
Can you name one of those christian haters
who told Jesus WHAT TO DO? Did the christian
haters tell him to attack the money changers in
the Temple Court Yard JUST BECAUSE THE PHARISEES HATED THEM?

The Pharisees were angry because of what He was doing and what he was saying. He wouldn't stop so they crucified Him. Matthew was a Disciple of Jesus and there is too much evidence that he wrote it for me to believe you. You're either mentally or demon possessed, probably both.

 

[irosie91]

The Pharisees were angry because of what He was doing and what he was saying. He wouldn't stop so they crucified Him. Matthew was a Disciple of Jesus and there is too much evidence that he wrote it for me to believe you. You're either mentally or demon possessed, probably both.

what was he doing that made the Pharisees angry. Do you have ANY IDEA AT ALL what the pharisee
stance on crucifixion was? Do you have any idea
what the pharisee stance on the "money changers"
in the temple courtyard was? Do you have any
idea at all what a pharisee was? Do you have any idea at all who the "high priest" Caiaphas was? Do
you have any idea at all what was going on during
the lifetime of Jesus in the land that the Romans
called Judea? ------I got news for you----you have
no background at all to have any idea what you are
reading when you read the "New Testament" . It is
possible that your education regarding this issue is
limited to the jelly bean dispensing sunday school
madam who ALSO had no idea. PS---christian
scholars agree that it is unlikely that the person
called Matthew wrote the book attributed to him.

 

[BS Filter]

what was he doing that made the Pharisees angry. Do you have ANY IDEA AT ALL what the pharisee
stance on crucifixion was? Do you have any idea
what the pharisee stance on the "money changers"
in the temple courtyard was? Do you have any
idea at all what a pharisee was? Do you have any idea at all who the "high priest" Caiaphas was? Do
you have any idea at all what was going on during
the lifetime of Jesus in the land that the Romans
called Judea? ------I got news for you----you have
no background at all to have any idea what you are
reading when you read the "New Testament" . It is
possible that your education regarding this issue is
limited to the jelly bean dispensing sunday school
madam who ALSO had no idea. PS---christian
scholars agree that it is unlikely that the person
called Matthew wrote the book attributed to him.

You're insane.

 

[irosie91]

You're insane.

you give up easily. If you do not know what a
Pharisee is----then you have no idea who Jesus
was.

 

[BS Filter]

you give up easily. If you do not know what a
Pharisee is----then you have no idea who Jesus
was.

Proverbs 26:4.

 

[irosie91]

Proverbs 26:4.

another NON-RESPONSE

 

[irosie91]

The Pharisees were angry because of what He was doing and what he was saying. He wouldn't stop so they crucified Him. Matthew was a Disciple of Jesus and there is too much evidence that he wrote it for me to believe you. You're either mentally or demon possessed, probably both.

BS informs us that Pharisees were angry with Jesus
"because of what he was doing"----but he cannot
describe what Jesus was doing----so THEN --Pharisees who were absolutely, completely, opposed to crucifixion ----decided to crucify him for "what he was doing" It gets even more idiotic---THEREFORE as a special favor, the Romans did the "dirty work"---that would be the same romans that produced the
"New Testament"

 

[BS Filter]

BS informs us that Pharisees were angry with Jesus
"because of what he was doing"----but he cannot
describe what Jesus was doing----so THEN --Pharisees who were absolutely, completely, opposed to crucifixion ----decided to crucify him for "what he was doing" It gets even more idiotic---THEREFORE as a special favor, the Romans did the "dirty work"---that would be the same romans that produced the
"New Testament"

You're insane.

 

[SweetSue92]

CEs need to face up to the fact that people of other religions dislike tremendously when they insist that all others are wrong, and only Christians are right.

What you want is to be able to tell everyone else that their religion is wrong, and expect no pushback or criticism. Well news flash: it’s obnoxious to try to convert others or “share the news” when they haven’t asked for it.

People may be polite when you tell them how wrong they are, but believe me….they don’t like it one bit. Nothing wrong with pointing it out to you.

Frankly, you're too smart not to be honest with yourself. Christianity bothers you. Just the message of exclusivity to God bothers you. Admit that so you can deal with it that way rather than dump like you just have. That would be more honest.

 

[Lisa558]

Frankly, you're too smart not to be honest with yourself. Christianity bothers you. Just the message of exclusivity to God bothers you. Admit that so you can deal with it that way rather than dump like you just have. That would be more honest.

Who wouldn’t be bothered by being told by ECs that people of other religions don’t have a path to G-d, and only Christians do? It’s insulting and disrespectful. And of course untrue. G-d welcomes all his righteous children.

Why don’t YOU admit that Judaism bothers you? Otherwise, why go around trying to get Jews to abandon their religion? The very GOAL of Evangelical Christians is to convert all Jews, and eradicate Judaism as a religion.

Why don’t YOU be honest with yourself and admit what your goal is, and that it is disrespectful to those of other religions. Particularly to Jews, who seem to have a special target on their backs.

 

[SweetSue92]

Who wouldn’t be bothered by being told by ECs that people of other religions don’t have a path to G-d, and only Christians do? It’s insulting and disrespectful. And of course untrue. G-d welcomes all his righteous children.

Why don’t YOU admit that Judaism bothers you? Otherwise, why go around trying to get Jews to abandon their religion? The very GOAL of Evangelical Christians is to convert all Jews, and eradicate Judaism as a religion.

Why don’t YOU be honest with yourself and admit what your goal is, and that it is disrespectful to those of other religions. Particularly to Jews, who seem to have a special target on their backs.

The very GOAL of Evangelical Christians is to convert all Jews, and eradicate Judaism as a religion.

You don't need me, and you're certainly not listening. Go on playing with the cartoon characters in your head.

 

[Lisa558]

The very GOAL of Evangelical Christians is to convert all Jews, and eradicate Judaism as a religion.

You don't need me, and you're certainly not listening. Go on playing with the cartoon characters in your head.

What cartoon characters? And who said I “needed” you? (Talk about arrogance.) Jews don’t need Evangelical Christians!

But you’re doing a good job of demonstrating how ECs get inflamed when Jews, or those of any other religion, point out how disrespectful and arrogant it is for those of one religion to tells others that their religion ONLY is the correct one, and attempt to convert them.

We don’t want to abandon our religion any more than you want to abandon yours. The difference is we are not going around pestering people of other religions to abandon them.

I say, live and let live. If you think the only way to G-d is by believing Jesus was His son, then have at it. It doesn’t impact me in the least. Just please stop bothering other people to abandon their religion and adopt yours.

Reverse it. How would you feel if Jews approached Christians and warned them if they continue to believe a man was son of Gd, they will go to hell? (Jews don’t think that way. We believe you can go to heaven regardless of what you think about Jesus.) You’d be beyond annoyed.

So we ask the same of you. Please stop telling other people how doomed they are if they don’t believe the way you do.

 

[SweetSue92]

What cartoon characters? And who said I “needed” you? (Talk about arrogance.) Jews don’t need Evangelical Christians!

But you’re doing a good job of demonstrating how ECs get inflamed when Jews, or those of any other religion, point out how disrespectful and arrogant it is for those of one religion to tells others that their religion ONLY is the correct one, and attempt to convert them.

We don’t want to abandon our religion any more than you want to abandon yours. The difference is we are not going around pestering people of other religions to abandon them.

I say, live and let live. If you think the only way to G-d is by believing Jesus was His son, then have at it. It doesn’t impact me in the least. Just please stop bothering other people to abandon their religion and adopt yours.

Reverse it. How would you feel if Jews approached Christians and warned them if they continue to believe a man was son of Gd, they will go to hell? (Jews don’t think that way. We believe you can go to heaven regardless of what you think about Jesus.) You’d be beyond annoyed.

So we ask the same of you. Please stop telling other people how doomed they are if they don’t believe the way you do.

What I mean is, you don't need me as a conversation partner. You're conversing with cartoon characters in your head--all the Christians you've met before, apparently, and what you imagine we, and I, think. One thing is sure, though. This seems to be not at all illuminating for you. But it is for me. Not about "the Jews". Just about you.

I hope you will at some point go back and have a read through back over this thread.

 

[Lisa558]

What I mean is, you don't need me as a conversation partner. You're conversing with cartoon characters in your head--all the Christians you've met before, apparently, and what you imagine we, and I, think. One thing is sure, though. This seems to be not at all illuminating for you. But it is for me. Not about "the Jews". Just about you.

I hope you will at some point go back and have a read through back over this thread.

No, I’m conversing with YOU. I am pointing out to YOU that we don’t like being told by ECs that our religion is wrong and we need to be “saved” (by abandoning our religion and accepting Jesus) or risk going to hell. I have been told, admirably, by a number of others that a place awaits me in The World to Come for my mitzvot, and I don’t appreciate ECs assuring me it won’t happen.

I hope at some point you will consider how disrespectful this is to people of other religions.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, I’m conversing with YOU. I am pointing out to YOU that we don’t like being told by ECs that our religion is wrong and we need to be “saved” (by abandoning our religion and accepting Jesus).

I hope at some point you will consider how disrespectful this is to people of other religions.

I am here agreeing with you that we should generally leave people alone.

I am not telling you any of this. I'm especially not telling you anything you said particularly about the Jews, which is....really out there.

It bothers you a lot that I just believe it. I bothers you so much that you have spilled paragraphs and paragraphs of some really surprising stuff from a poster I used to consider rational and reasonable.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, I’m conversing with YOU. I am pointing out to YOU that we don’t like being told by ECs that our religion is wrong and we need to be “saved” (by abandoning our religion and accepting Jesus) or risk going to hell. I have been told, admirably, by a number of others that a place awaits me in The World to Come for my mitzvot, and I don’t appreciate ECs assuring me it won’t happen.

I hope at some point you will consider how disrespectful this is to people of other religions.

Now, to follow up. You are sitting there being Jewish which bothers me, trust me, not at all. You could comb every single post I have ever made on this board and would find not one word about "The Jews" or whatnot. I have on occasion given it to anti-Semites, which I'm sure you don't believe, but whatever.

OTOH, I am here being Evangelical Christian, saying none of the things you have attributed to me, not trying to convert you. And my religion really, really bothers you.

Own that. Just own it. Because I am not the one with the intolerance here.

 

[Lisa558]

I am here agreeing with you that we should generally leave people alone.

I am not telling you any of this. I'm especially not telling you anything you said particularly about the Jews, which is....really out there.

It bothers you a lot that I just believe it. I bothers you so much that you have spilled paragraphs and paragraphs of some really surprising stuff from a poster I used to consider rational and reasonable.

it doesn’t bother me that you believe it. Why would it? It has no bearing on me. All of my Christian friends believe Jesus was G-d’s son.

The difference is that they are not ECs, so they don’t try to “save” me. If they ever do join a missionary church* and turn into ECs, as two of my friends did, and start in with the Hell and the “only way to the father” stuff - and refuse to stop - then I cut them out of my lives.

*There is a massive missionary church a short drive away, and it’s 10,000 members strong. They have “conversion drives” and fan out all over the DC area, ringing bells and pestering people. Nobody likes it.

 

[SweetSue92]

it doesn’t bother me that you believe it. Why would it? It has no bearing on me. All of my Christian friends believe Jesus was G-d’s son.

The difference is that they are not ECs, so they don’t try to “save” me. If they ever do join a missionary church* and turn into ECs, as two of my friends did, and start in with the Hell and the “only way to the father” stuff - and refuse to stop - then I cut them out of my lives.

*There is a massive missionary church a short drive away, and it’s 10,000 members strong. They have “conversion drives” and fan out all over the DC area, ringing bells and pestering people. Nobody likes it.

Now we're getting somewhere. Were your friends Jewish?

 

[Lisa558]

Now, to follow up. You are sitting there being Jewish which bothers me, trust me, not at all. You could comb every single post I have ever made on this board and would find not one word about "The Jews" or whatnot. I have on occasion given it to anti-Semites, which I'm sure you don't believe, but whatever.

OTOH, I am here being Evangelical Christian, saying none of the things you have attributed to me, not trying to convert you. And my religion really, really bothers you.

Own that. Just own it. Because I am not the one with the intolerance here.

You’re the one with the intolerance. You are trying to get Jews to abandon the religion. I am fine with letting Christians be Christians, as long as they don’t show me disrespect by trying to convert me and warning me that fire and brimstone await.

Think of it. How can you believe that G-d is going to punish Jews by sending them to hell, and then claim you don’t think less of Jews?! You think we are so bad that we are doomed to a fiery fate.