Do Americans favor the creation of a public health insurance?

[Harry Dresden]

Unfortunately the American people are controlled by the Insurance Companies. They tell you what to pay, where to pay and now they even tell you what to believe. So sad..........

You provide a lot of facts to this debate....

Yukon posts are the Troll-House cookies of this intellectual bakery.

like i have said many times before....he is the 3rd McKenzie brother....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You provide a lot of facts to this debate....

Yukon posts are the Troll-House cookies of this intellectual bakery.

like i have said many times before....he is the 3rd McKenzie brother....

and you do notice how he stays away from the conversation when he cant back nothing up.....the jerks a fraud....an embarrassment to Canada....

 

[sealybobo]

Yukon posts are the Troll-House cookies of this intellectual bakery.

like i have said many times before....he is the 3rd McKenzie brother....

and you do notice how he stays away from the conversation when he cant back nothing up.....the jerks a fraud....an embarrassment to Canada....

Hey Harry. Have you been paying attention to the single payer/public option debate? No chance you obstructionists are going to stop it. All the myths you guys keep putting out there. I think you believe what you are saying. You just don't know you are being lied to. Every reason why we can't or shouldn't is bullshit.

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

There were 10 blue dog democrats that were obstructing progress, and now there is 9. LOL. We're going to get this done harry. And you can keep your expensive shit. I'll go with the public plan. And when the private companies deny you care or you can't afford them anymore, you can join too. Your choice. Isn't that what you want? More competition and choices?

That's the thing about us Democrats. We'll fix this for you weather you want us to or not. I wish we could ban you from participating. Co-ops my ass.

Here are the 9 traitors. Soon they will fall though. We're flooding their phone lines. 72% want this Harry. Trust me, you are either making money off the private healthcare scam or you are stupid.

These Democratic Senators are against it:
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)

Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)

Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)

Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)

Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)

Senator Kay Hagan (D-NC)

Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)

 

[Immanuel]

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

Let's see the actual plan first before we jump to the conclusion whether or not the government will put private insurers out of business.

As I said earlier, the plan as proposed by President Obama would put them out of business. However, that is not a final plan nor is it actually in the works. Also, I was concerned that medical professionals and those who desire to enter the field would be discouraged from practicing the trade at reduced wages. I didn't hear the President's speech yesterday. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm against anything that will eliminate competition. But, I'd rather hear the plan and debate from there.

Immie

 

[toomuchtime_]

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

Let's see the actual plan first before we jump to the conclusion whether or not the government will put private insurers out of business.

As I said earlier, the plan as proposed by President Obama would put them out of business. However, that is not a final plan nor is it actually in the works. Also, I was concerned that medical professionals and those who desire to enter the field would be discouraged from practicing the trade at reduced wages. I didn't hear the President's speech yesterday. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm against anything that will eliminate competition. But, I'd rather hear the plan and debate from there.

Immie

The key issue is whether or not a public plan would receive government subsidies not available to private plans so that it could charge artificially low rates and drive private insurers out of business. If the law were written so that the public plan could not receive such subsidies, there would be little opposition to it, and fact that Obama, Dodd, Pelosi, etc. have consistently refused to give that assurance tells us that they do not believe a public plan could provide healthcare more efficiently or less expensively than private plans now do, and when they talk about introducing competition into the market, they are lying.

 

[Political Junky]

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

Let's see the actual plan first before we jump to the conclusion whether or not the government will put private insurers out of business.

As I said earlier, the plan as proposed by President Obama would put them out of business. However, that is not a final plan nor is it actually in the works. Also, I was concerned that medical professionals and those who desire to enter the field would be discouraged from practicing the trade at reduced wages. I didn't hear the President's speech yesterday. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm against anything that will eliminate competition. But, I'd rather hear the plan and debate from there.

Immie

The key issue is whether or not a public plan would receive government subsidies not available to private plans so that it could charge artificially low rates and drive private insurers out of business. If the law were written so that the public plan could not receive such subsidies, there would be little opposition to it, and fact that Obama, Dodd, Pelosi, etc. have consistently refused to give that assurance tells us that they do not believe a public plan could provide healthcare more efficiently or less expensively than private plans now do, and when they talk about introducing competition into the market, they are lying.

Oh, so you want another private industry to be given government help? Sounds like Socialism.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

like i have said many times before....he is the 3rd McKenzie brother....

and you do notice how he stays away from the conversation when he cant back nothing up.....the jerks a fraud....an embarrassment to Canada....

Hey Harry. Have you been paying attention to the single payer/public option debate? No chance you obstructionists are going to stop it. All the myths you guys keep putting out there. I think you believe what you are saying. You just don't know you are being lied to. Every reason why we can't or shouldn't is bullshit.

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

There were 10 blue dog democrats that were obstructing progress, and now there is 9. LOL. We're going to get this done harry. And you can keep your expensive shit. I'll go with the public plan. And when the private companies deny you care or you can't afford them anymore, you can join too. Your choice. Isn't that what you want? More competition and choices?

That's the thing about us Democrats. We'll fix this for you weather you want us to or not. I wish we could ban you from participating. Co-ops my ass.

Here are the 9 traitors. Soon they will fall though. We're flooding their phone lines. 72% want this Harry. Trust me, you are either making money off the private healthcare scam or you are stupid.

These Democratic Senators are against it:
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)

Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)

Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)

Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)

Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)

Senator Kay Hagan (D-NC)

Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)

Heh, I can hardly wait until you are an old man in dire need of bypass surgery but Big Brother deems you too old for it or puts you on a loooong waiting list because there are too many others younger that "deserve" it before you (shortage of heart surgeons ya know).....you'll be looking for a private entity then.....probably on the black market.....hahaha

 

[sealybobo]

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

Let's see the actual plan first before we jump to the conclusion whether or not the government will put private insurers out of business.

As I said earlier, the plan as proposed by President Obama would put them out of business. However, that is not a final plan nor is it actually in the works. Also, I was concerned that medical professionals and those who desire to enter the field would be discouraged from practicing the trade at reduced wages. I didn't hear the President's speech yesterday. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm against anything that will eliminate competition. But, I'd rather hear the plan and debate from there.

Immie

No his plan wouldn't put private insurers out of business. It would reduce their profits though.

Medical professionals want single payer. I've heard some say that if it worked, they'd prefer it, even if it meant they might make a little less. Less headaches. That was the reason for profit insurance companies came to be in the first place. Doctors wanted to practice medicine and not run a business. But the insurers mucked up the process and are now costing the doctors and the patients too much.

And it will increase competition. The private insurers have a basic monopoly now.

 

[sealybobo]

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

Let's see the actual plan first before we jump to the conclusion whether or not the government will put private insurers out of business.

As I said earlier, the plan as proposed by President Obama would put them out of business. However, that is not a final plan nor is it actually in the works. Also, I was concerned that medical professionals and those who desire to enter the field would be discouraged from practicing the trade at reduced wages. I didn't hear the President's speech yesterday. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm against anything that will eliminate competition. But, I'd rather hear the plan and debate from there.

Immie

The key issue is whether or not a public plan would receive government subsidies not available to private plans so that it could charge artificially low rates and drive private insurers out of business. If the law were written so that the public plan could not receive such subsidies, there would be little opposition to it, and fact that Obama, Dodd, Pelosi, etc. have consistently refused to give that assurance tells us that they do not believe a public plan could provide healthcare more efficiently or less expensively than private plans now do, and when they talk about introducing competition into the market, they are lying.

At first the public plan will get government money, and then after that it will be funded by premiums.

All the for profits have to do is lower their costs and start being competitive. There goes that company jet.

And instead of a $20 million bonus, they'll only get $1 million dollar bonus'. Boo Hoo!!

I can't remember the details, but there was this doctor in charge of a hospital or in charge of a insurance company and his pay was so outragous you wouldn't believe it. I wish I could find the story. But that is why healthcare is out of control.

I remember a few years ago people on the right tried to tell me that CEO/Executive pay was a drop in the bucket. I always knew that was a lie but never had proof. Now we know.

Just the CEO alone. If he/she makes $20 million dollars, that's 400 people making $50K a year.

And look at how much CEO pay is now compared to years ago. Funny they get cost of living raises and raises to help with inflation but we don't?

In 2005 CEO's made 300 times more than their workers. Today 431 to one. **** anyone who says a line worker isn't worth $35 hr.

In the old days they made 40 times more than the average worker.

Again, **** anyone who can justify this and not want to pay a line worker $35 hr.

 

[sealybobo]

and you do notice how he stays away from the conversation when he cant back nothing up.....the jerks a fraud....an embarrassment to Canada....

Hey Harry. Have you been paying attention to the single payer/public option debate? No chance you obstructionists are going to stop it. All the myths you guys keep putting out there. I think you believe what you are saying. You just don't know you are being lied to. Every reason why we can't or shouldn't is bullshit.

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

There were 10 blue dog democrats that were obstructing progress, and now there is 9. LOL. We're going to get this done harry. And you can keep your expensive shit. I'll go with the public plan. And when the private companies deny you care or you can't afford them anymore, you can join too. Your choice. Isn't that what you want? More competition and choices?

That's the thing about us Democrats. We'll fix this for you weather you want us to or not. I wish we could ban you from participating. Co-ops my ass.

Here are the 9 traitors. Soon they will fall though. We're flooding their phone lines. 72% want this Harry. Trust me, you are either making money off the private healthcare scam or you are stupid.

These Democratic Senators are against it:
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)

Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)

Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)

Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)

Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)

Senator Kay Hagan (D-NC)

Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)

Heh, I can hardly wait until you are an old man in dire need of bypass surgery but Big Brother deems you too old for it or puts you on a loooong waiting list because there are too many others younger that "deserve" it before you (shortage of heart surgeons ya know).....you'll be looking for a private entity then.....probably on the black market.....hahaha

Yea, we've heard this already from you fear mongerers.

And I hope you lose your job and get a pre existing condition and it ruins the rest of your ******* life you asshole. **** you!!!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Let's see the actual plan first before we jump to the conclusion whether or not the government will put private insurers out of business.

As I said earlier, the plan as proposed by President Obama would put them out of business. However, that is not a final plan nor is it actually in the works. Also, I was concerned that medical professionals and those who desire to enter the field would be discouraged from practicing the trade at reduced wages. I didn't hear the President's speech yesterday. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm against anything that will eliminate competition. But, I'd rather hear the plan and debate from there.

Immie

The key issue is whether or not a public plan would receive government subsidies not available to private plans so that it could charge artificially low rates and drive private insurers out of business. If the law were written so that the public plan could not receive such subsidies, there would be little opposition to it, and fact that Obama, Dodd, Pelosi, etc. have consistently refused to give that assurance tells us that they do not believe a public plan could provide healthcare more efficiently or less expensively than private plans now do, and when they talk about introducing competition into the market, they are lying.

At first the public plan will get government money, and then after that it will be funded by premiums.

All the for profits have to do is lower their costs and start being competitive. There goes that company jet.

And instead of a $20 million bonus, they'll only get $1 million dollar bonus'. Boo Hoo!!

I can't remember the details, but there was this doctor in charge of a hospital or in charge of a insurance company and his pay was so outragous you wouldn't believe it. I wish I could find the story. But that is why healthcare is out of control.

I remember a few years ago people on the right tried to tell me that CEO/Executive pay was a drop in the bucket. I always knew that was a lie but never had proof. Now we know.

Just the CEO alone. If he/she makes $20 million dollars, that's 400 people making $50K a year.

And look at how much CEO pay is now compared to years ago. Funny they get cost of living raises and raises to help with inflation but we don't?

In 2005 CEO's made 300 times more than their workers. Today 431 to one. **** anyone who says a line worker isn't worth $35 hr.

In the old days they made 40 times more than the average worker.

Again, **** anyone who can justify this and not want to pay a line worker $35 hr.

Both Obama and the Congressional Dems have refused to rule out subsidies to a public plan that would not be available to private plans, and it is this fear that government subsidies would allow a public plan to charge artificially lower premiums to drive private plans out of business in order to usher in a government monopoly on health insurance. Without the additional subsidies, a public plan would essentially be a non profit insurance companies, and non profit insurance companies have not fared all that well against for profit insurance companies.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Hey Harry. Have you been paying attention to the single payer/public option debate? No chance you obstructionists are going to stop it. All the myths you guys keep putting out there. I think you believe what you are saying. You just don't know you are being lied to. Every reason why we can't or shouldn't is bullshit.

The latest cry from the private insurers is laughable. They say a public plan will put them out of business. How is it that a government run program is going to put them out of business? They say they provide the best for the least. If that's true, they should have nothing to worry about. I just find it funny that they slam government run this and government run that and the fact is, they have a monopoly and are ripping us off. And you're swallowing it. Wake up Harry.

There were 10 blue dog democrats that were obstructing progress, and now there is 9. LOL. We're going to get this done harry. And you can keep your expensive shit. I'll go with the public plan. And when the private companies deny you care or you can't afford them anymore, you can join too. Your choice. Isn't that what you want? More competition and choices?

That's the thing about us Democrats. We'll fix this for you weather you want us to or not. I wish we could ban you from participating. Co-ops my ass.

Here are the 9 traitors. Soon they will fall though. We're flooding their phone lines. 72% want this Harry. Trust me, you are either making money off the private healthcare scam or you are stupid.

These Democratic Senators are against it:
Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)

Senator Tom Carper (D-DE)

Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA)

Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL)

Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)

Senator Kay Hagan (D-NC)

Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND)

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT)

Heh, I can hardly wait until you are an old man in dire need of bypass surgery but Big Brother deems you too old for it or puts you on a loooong waiting list because there are too many others younger that "deserve" it before you (shortage of heart surgeons ya know).....you'll be looking for a private entity then.....probably on the black market.....hahaha

Yea, we've heard this already from you fear mongerers.

And I hope you lose your job and get a pre existing condition and it ruins the rest of your ******* life you asshole. **** you!!!

Touchy, aren't we? I guess one gets that way when one considers what will actually happen down the line with socialized health care....as one can easily see happening in other countries that tried/are trying it...

and I totally agree that depending on your employer (another middleman) for your insurance is just plain stupid....and also hampers one's freedom.....I think every citizen should get their own individual major medical insurance policy plan that they pay for directly to the insurance company....not through one's employer....it shouldn't cost any more than what you pay for auto insurance....somehow people still manage to drive insured cars when they lose their jobs....and I am all for medical savings accounts like what Bush proposed....

 

[sealybobo]

The key issue is whether or not a public plan would receive government subsidies not available to private plans so that it could charge artificially low rates and drive private insurers out of business. If the law were written so that the public plan could not receive such subsidies, there would be little opposition to it, and fact that Obama, Dodd, Pelosi, etc. have consistently refused to give that assurance tells us that they do not believe a public plan could provide healthcare more efficiently or less expensively than private plans now do, and when they talk about introducing competition into the market, they are lying.

At first the public plan will get government money, and then after that it will be funded by premiums.

All the for profits have to do is lower their costs and start being competitive. There goes that company jet.

And instead of a $20 million bonus, they'll only get $1 million dollar bonus'. Boo Hoo!!

I can't remember the details, but there was this doctor in charge of a hospital or in charge of a insurance company and his pay was so outragous you wouldn't believe it. I wish I could find the story. But that is why healthcare is out of control.

I remember a few years ago people on the right tried to tell me that CEO/Executive pay was a drop in the bucket. I always knew that was a lie but never had proof. Now we know.

Just the CEO alone. If he/she makes $20 million dollars, that's 400 people making $50K a year.

And look at how much CEO pay is now compared to years ago. Funny they get cost of living raises and raises to help with inflation but we don't?

In 2005 CEO's made 300 times more than their workers. Today 431 to one. **** anyone who says a line worker isn't worth $35 hr.

In the old days they made 40 times more than the average worker.

Again, **** anyone who can justify this and not want to pay a line worker $35 hr.

Both Obama and the Congressional Dems have refused to rule out subsidies to a public plan that would not be available to private plans, and it is this fear that government subsidies would allow a public plan to charge artificially lower premiums to drive private plans out of business in order to usher in a government monopoly on health insurance. Without the additional subsidies, a public plan would essentially be a non profit insurance companies, and non profit insurance companies have not fared all that well against for profit insurance companies.

WRONG! Obama doesn't want to drive private plans out of business and he doesn't want to run GM.

BULLSHIT!

And subsodies are my best friend if they will drive down costs. Do you want me to cry for the insurance companies? Not gonna happen.

So tell me, why have non profits not done well against for profits? Did the big boys run them out of business? Please explain and prove that statement. You must have links.

All your arguments would have had some merit a few years ago, but we are all way to informed to be bullshitted. For profits jacked their rates up 191% since 2001. Unacceptable, whether you want to admit it or not.

Just like you guys didn't believe gas at $4 was because of deregulations/speculation and gouging. Even when they had record profits, that wasn't enough. FACT, if it was simply s&d, their profits wouldn't have gone up at all. They would have only increased the prices as much as the cost went up.

NEXT!

 

[sealybobo]

Heh, I can hardly wait until you are an old man in dire need of bypass surgery but Big Brother deems you too old for it or puts you on a loooong waiting list because there are too many others younger that "deserve" it before you (shortage of heart surgeons ya know).....you'll be looking for a private entity then.....probably on the black market.....hahaha

Yea, we've heard this already from you fear mongerers.

And I hope you lose your job and get a pre existing condition and it ruins the rest of your ******* life you asshole. **** you!!!

Touchy, aren't we? I guess one gets that way when one considers what will actually happen down the line with socialized health care....as one can easily see happening in other countries that tried/are trying it...

and I totally agree that depending on your employer (another middleman) for your insurance is just plain stupid....and also hampers one's freedom.....I think every citizen should get their own individual major medical insurance policy plan that they pay for directly to the insurance company....not through one's employer....it shouldn't cost any more than what you pay for auto insurance....somehow people still manage to drive insured cars when they lose their jobs....and I am all for medical savings accounts like what Bush proposed....

No, actually we're finding out that you fearmongers are exxagerating. AND, the pre existing condition thing is happening here in America, no exxageration.

Talk about rationing healthcare.

So $2000 a year roughly for medical insurance? Now thats reasonable. How will it work? The for profits will take a huge hit. Explain how we will get it so cheap? But it sounds ok to me so far.

 

[Immanuel]

No his plan wouldn't put private insurers out of business. It would reduce their profits though.

As I said, what I have read (produced by the administration) had language that specifically forbade private insurers from offering any services that competed with the public plan. That right there would drive private health insurance out of business. That right there would be a disaster.

Medical professionals want single payer. I've heard some say that if it worked, they'd prefer it, even if it meant they might make a little less. Less headaches. That was the reason for profit insurance companies came to be in the first place. Doctors wanted to practice medicine and not run a business. But the insurers mucked up the process and are now costing the doctors and the patients too much.

I, too, have seen reports from different medical associations that said that medical professionals would prefer the single payer plan. That may be the case... then again, they may get what they think they want only to find out that they are screwed and it is too late to do anything about it.

And it will increase competition.

Not if private insurers are forbidden to offer services.

The private insurers have a basic monopoly now.

Really? Do you have any idea how many private insurers are out there? A monopoly would be something like AT&T used to be for phone services or Microsoft is today or what the President described as his idea for this plan i.e. the only game in town. I can go to any number of insurance companies and seek the most favorable plans right now, under the "plan" that possibility would be cut to one insurer and only one and I would be forced to take what ever they offer.

Oh and they will be able to raise the rates as high as they want to without anyone being able to do a damned thing about it as well as tax you just like they do Social Security to increase their profits and we won't be able to do a damned thing to stop them. Your only option will be to just grin and bare it.

Immie

 

[toomuchtime_]

At first the public plan will get government money, and then after that it will be funded by premiums.

All the for profits have to do is lower their costs and start being competitive. There goes that company jet.

And instead of a $20 million bonus, they'll only get $1 million dollar bonus'. Boo Hoo!!

I can't remember the details, but there was this doctor in charge of a hospital or in charge of a insurance company and his pay was so outragous you wouldn't believe it. I wish I could find the story. But that is why healthcare is out of control.

I remember a few years ago people on the right tried to tell me that CEO/Executive pay was a drop in the bucket. I always knew that was a lie but never had proof. Now we know.

Just the CEO alone. If he/she makes $20 million dollars, that's 400 people making $50K a year.

And look at how much CEO pay is now compared to years ago. Funny they get cost of living raises and raises to help with inflation but we don't?

In 2005 CEO's made 300 times more than their workers. Today 431 to one. **** anyone who says a line worker isn't worth $35 hr.

In the old days they made 40 times more than the average worker.

Again, **** anyone who can justify this and not want to pay a line worker $35 hr.

Both Obama and the Congressional Dems have refused to rule out subsidies to a public plan that would not be available to private plans, and it is this fear that government subsidies would allow a public plan to charge artificially lower premiums to drive private plans out of business in order to usher in a government monopoly on health insurance. Without the additional subsidies, a public plan would essentially be a non profit insurance companies, and non profit insurance companies have not fared all that well against for profit insurance companies.

WRONG! Obama doesn't want to drive private plans out of business and he doesn't want to run GM.

BULLSHIT!

And subsodies are my best friend if they will drive down costs. Do you want me to cry for the insurance companies? Not gonna happen.

So tell me, why have non profits not done well against for profits? Did the big boys run them out of business? Please explain and prove that statement. You must have links.

All your arguments would have had some merit a few years ago, but we are all way to informed to be bullshitted. For profits jacked their rates up 191% since 2001. Unacceptable, whether you want to admit it or not.

Just like you guys didn't believe gas at $4 was because of deregulations/speculation and gouging. Even when they had record profits, that wasn't enough. FACT, if it was simply s&d, their profits wouldn't have gone up at all. They would have only increased the prices as much as the cost went up.

NEXT!

Obama was asked about subsidies for a public plan at his press conference and refused to rule it out. If the public plan receives subsidies, it will not have to base its rates on its premium income and investment returns on its reserves, and tax dollars or deficit dollars will be paying the difference between the rate the public plan's revenues indicate it should charge and what it would actually charge. That's how the Standard Oil and other monopolies were formed: artificially lower prices to drive your competitors out of business and then raise your prices. Without subsidies, of course, the public plan would have to base its charges on its legitimate revenues, and those would be much the same as private plans.

Well run non profit insurance companies have not been run out of business, but neither have they provided much competition for for profit companies. In order for a non profit to compete, it has to hire marketing and advertising people, and to get good ones, it has to pay pretty much what for profit companies have to pay, and it has to hire portfolio managers to invest its reserves, and pay what other companies are willing to pay to get good ones. Without first rate marketing and advertising people, the plan doesn't grow, and first rate investment people, it doesn't earn enough on its reserves to keep its premiums low. There are lots of non profit insurance companies around, but they are generally small and their rates are pretty much what the rates for for profits companies are.

 

[sealybobo]

Both Obama and the Congressional Dems have refused to rule out subsidies to a public plan that would not be available to private plans, and it is this fear that government subsidies would allow a public plan to charge artificially lower premiums to drive private plans out of business in order to usher in a government monopoly on health insurance. Without the additional subsidies, a public plan would essentially be a non profit insurance companies, and non profit insurance companies have not fared all that well against for profit insurance companies.

WRONG! Obama doesn't want to drive private plans out of business and he doesn't want to run GM.

BULLSHIT!

And subsodies are my best friend if they will drive down costs. Do you want me to cry for the insurance companies? Not gonna happen.

So tell me, why have non profits not done well against for profits? Did the big boys run them out of business? Please explain and prove that statement. You must have links.

All your arguments would have had some merit a few years ago, but we are all way to informed to be bullshitted. For profits jacked their rates up 191% since 2001. Unacceptable, whether you want to admit it or not.

Just like you guys didn't believe gas at $4 was because of deregulations/speculation and gouging. Even when they had record profits, that wasn't enough. FACT, if it was simply s&d, their profits wouldn't have gone up at all. They would have only increased the prices as much as the cost went up.

NEXT!

Obama was asked about subsidies for a public plan at his press conference and refused to rule it out. If the public plan receives subsidies, it will not have to base its rates on its premium income and investment returns on its reserves, and tax dollars or deficit dollars will be paying the difference between the rate the public plan's revenues indicate it should charge and what it would actually charge. That's how the Standard Oil and other monopolies were formed: artificially lower prices to drive your competitors out of business and then raise your prices. Without subsidies, of course, the public plan would have to base its charges on its legitimate revenues, and those would be much the same as private plans.

Well run non profit insurance companies have not been run out of business, but neither have they provided much competition for for profit companies. In order for a non profit to compete, it has to hire marketing and advertising people, and to get good ones, it has to pay pretty much what for profit companies have to pay, and it has to hire portfolio managers to invest its reserves, and pay what other companies are willing to pay to get good ones. Without first rate marketing and advertising people, the plan doesn't grow, and first rate investment people, it doesn't earn enough on its reserves to keep its premiums low. There are lots of non profit insurance companies around, but they are generally small and their rates are pretty much what the rates for for profits companies are.

I'll have to read and reply tomorrow, but I know exactly what Obama said about subsodies.

If that stops the FOR PROFITS from gouging us for as much as they possibly can, I'm all for it.

In 10 years, you won't be able to afford healthcare if we continue on this route. Want to wait for that before we do something?

 

[toomuchtime_]

WRONG! Obama doesn't want to drive private plans out of business and he doesn't want to run GM.

BULLSHIT!

And subsidies are my best friend if they will drive down costs. Do you want me to cry for the insurance companies? Not gonna happen.

So tell me, why have non profits not done well against for profits? Did the big boys run them out of business? Please explain and prove that statement. You must have links.

All your arguments would have had some merit a few years ago, but we are all way to informed to be bullshitted. For profits jacked their rates up 191% since 2001. Unacceptable, whether you want to admit it or not.

Just like you guys didn't believe gas at $4 was because of deregulations/speculation and gouging. Even when they had record profits, that wasn't enough. FACT, if it was simply s&d, their profits wouldn't have gone up at all. They would have only increased the prices as much as the cost went up.

NEXT!

Obama was asked about subsidies for a public plan at his press conference and refused to rule it out. If the public plan receives subsidies, it will not have to base its rates on its premium income and investment returns on its reserves, and tax dollars or deficit dollars will be paying the difference between the rate the public plan's revenues indicate it should charge and what it would actually charge. That's how the Standard Oil and other monopolies were formed: artificially lower prices to drive your competitors out of business and then raise your prices. Without subsidies, of course, the public plan would have to base its charges on its legitimate revenues, and those would be much the same as private plans.

Well run non profit insurance companies have not been run out of business, but neither have they provided much competition for for profit companies. In order for a non profit to compete, it has to hire marketing and advertising people, and to get good ones, it has to pay pretty much what for profit companies have to pay, and it has to hire portfolio managers to invest its reserves, and pay what other companies are willing to pay to get good ones. Without first rate marketing and advertising people, the plan doesn't grow, and first rate investment people, it doesn't earn enough on its reserves to keep its premiums low. There are lots of non profit insurance companies around, but they are generally small and their rates are pretty much what the rates for for profits companies are.

I'll have to read and reply tomorrow, but I know exactly what Obama said about subsodies.

If that stops the FOR PROFITS from gouging us for as much as they possibly can, I'm all for it.

In 10 years, you won't be able to afford healthcare if we continue on this route. Want to wait for that before we do something?

If a public plan could actually cut costs enough to provide insurance at a lower rate than private companies, there would be no need for subsidies, so if Obama wants subsidies for the public plan, it's because, contrary to what he has said, he believes that a public plan would not be able to cut costs significantly and it would need, in effect, taxpayer bailouts to compete.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yea, we've heard this already from you fear mongerers.

And I hope you lose your job and get a pre existing condition and it ruins the rest of your ******* life you asshole. **** you!!!

Touchy, aren't we? I guess one gets that way when one considers what will actually happen down the line with socialized health care....as one can easily see happening in other countries that tried/are trying it...

and I totally agree that depending on your employer (another middleman) for your insurance is just plain stupid....and also hampers one's freedom.....I think every citizen should get their own individual major medical insurance policy plan that they pay for directly to the insurance company....not through one's employer....it shouldn't cost any more than what you pay for auto insurance....somehow people still manage to drive insured cars when they lose their jobs....and I am all for medical savings accounts like what Bush proposed....

No, actually we're finding out that you fearmongers are exxagerating. AND, the pre existing condition thing is happening here in America, no exxageration.

Talk about rationing healthcare.

So $2000 a year roughly for medical insurance? Now thats reasonable. How will it work? The for profits will take a huge hit. Explain how we will get it so cheap? But it sounds ok to me so far.

First, we get the lawyers out of the health business....huge malpractice suits drive up costs...

Next, we limit insurance companies to major medical only....this will get them out of the health management business....and back into the risk management business where they should be...perhaps this is where we could require all to participate (like with autos)...and forego pre-conditions...

We stop employers from providing health insurance so people buy direct...thus there is no dependence on keeping a particular job to keep your insurance...you just pay your premium for the major medical of your choice...or pay directly in cash to your clinic...

Also, we promote tax-exempt health savings plans which will help people save to pay for ongoing regular health care costs that people will pay DIRECTLY in cash to their health care clinics/doctors when they go for services...

NO government....NO insurance companies (except MM)....NO employer-controlled insurance....NO lawyers....NO busy-body politicians...

Costs will plummet as people will do what they can to prevent excessive visits to the doctor when they have to pay cash each time they go...people will get more into healthy living for prevention (this is healthy rationing)...and competitition between clinics will lower costs as well...

Simple, yet effective...the big FOR PROFITS insurers that you hate can go take a hike...along with big daddy government...and leave us free people in control of our own heath care...

 

[auditor0007]

Touchy, aren't we? I guess one gets that way when one considers what will actually happen down the line with socialized health care....as one can easily see happening in other countries that tried/are trying it...

and I totally agree that depending on your employer (another middleman) for your insurance is just plain stupid....and also hampers one's freedom.....I think every citizen should get their own individual major medical insurance policy plan that they pay for directly to the insurance company....not through one's employer....it shouldn't cost any more than what you pay for auto insurance....somehow people still manage to drive insured cars when they lose their jobs....and I am all for medical savings accounts like what Bush proposed....

No, actually we're finding out that you fearmongers are exxagerating. AND, the pre existing condition thing is happening here in America, no exxageration.

Talk about rationing healthcare.

So $2000 a year roughly for medical insurance? Now thats reasonable. How will it work? The for profits will take a huge hit. Explain how we will get it so cheap? But it sounds ok to me so far.

First, we get the lawyers out of the health business....huge malpractice suits drive up costs...

Next, we limit insurance companies to major medical only....this will get them out of the health management business....and back into the risk management business where they should be...perhaps this is where we could require all to participate (like with autos)...and forego pre-conditions...

We stop employers from providing health insurance so people buy direct...thus there is no dependence on keeping a particular job to keep your insurance...you just pay your premium for the major medical of your choice...or pay directly in cash to your clinic...

Also, we promote tax-exempt health savings plans which will help people save to pay for ongoing regular health care costs that people will pay DIRECTLY in cash to their health care clinics/doctors when they go for services...

NO government....NO insurance companies (except MM)....NO employer-controlled insurance....NO lawyers....NO busy-body politicians...

Costs will plummet as people will do what they can to prevent excessive visits to the doctor when they have to pay cash each time they go...people will get more into healthy living for prevention (this is healthy rationing)...and competitition between clinics will lower costs as well...

Simple, yet effective...the big FOR PROFITS insurers that you hate can go take a hike...along with big daddy government...and leave us free people in control of our own heath care...

That is a plan I could live with. Of course, you'll still have Medicare, but that could be somewhat revamped also. The biggest issue for me is making catastrophic insurance available to everyone at a fair price. I'd be more than willing to pay my own way on the normal costs, even though mine are much higher than most.