Ditch Donald, embrace Johnson - our only chance to avoid Prez Hillary

[kaz]

40% of Republicans will go down with the ship. They are angry, frightened hysterical Pat Buchannan oh fear we can't compete in a free market hysterical women. That's enough to sink Johnson too.

If Trump can't pull his shit together, and it appears he can't. Hillary will win. I predicted after the primaries that Trump would win, he had everything going for him. But man, the guy is a lunatic. A lunatic versus a soulless *****. Yeah, this country can pick em ...

BTW, I am voting for Gary

I don't think Johnson has much chance of winning the election either.....but do you think there's a chance of him getting electoral votes? How about enough to push the election to the House?

The problem is Johnson would have to win a bunch of States to do that and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately we elect with a plurality in this country, you don't need a majority. Leaves the two parties as the only "viable" choice

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

I don't care what the predictions are. I care about casting my one vote for the best candidate.

But repeating the "Johnson can't win" propaganda helps make sure he will lose the election.

What is the point in saying that to someone who is voting for him, isn't that a message for people who think he's the best candidate and they aren't voting for him?

I'm not clear what point you're trying to make to me

 

[dblack]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

40% of Republicans will go down with the ship. They are angry, frightened hysterical Pat Buchannan oh fear we can't compete in a free market hysterical women. That's enough to sink Johnson too.

If Trump can't pull his shit together, and it appears he can't. Hillary will win. I predicted after the primaries that Trump would win, he had everything going for him. But man, the guy is a lunatic. A lunatic versus a soulless *****. Yeah, this country can pick em ...

BTW, I am voting for Gary

I don't think Johnson has much chance of winning the election either.....but do you think there's a chance of him getting electoral votes? How about enough to push the election to the House?

The problem is Johnson would have to win a bunch of States to do that and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately we elect with a plurality in this country, you don't need a majority. Leaves the two parties as the only "viable" choice

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

They are indeed. But I'm seeing a window here I've never seen in the past. If Johnson is shrewd enough (which I'm not at all sure is the case) he could swipe this out from under both of them.

I see two critical junctures ahead. First, is getting his polling numbers up high enough to be in the debates. Not only will that give him national exposure, it will give the Hillary haters pause to consider that maybe Johnson has a better chance at defeating Clinton than Trump. He's inching up, but the press hasn't really decided to beat on him yet.

Which brings up the next point: the press will turn on him once he presents a plausible threat, and how he handles that will be all-important. His laid back, affable personality could help him here. Liberals in the press are going to paint him as an anarchist and he'll need to convincingly downplay the hardcore libertarians ideas (legalizing ALL drugs, dismantling the FDA, dropping Social Security). That's why I think it's actually a good thing he's not a pure libertarian. But he's not a polished politician, so I don't know how that will play out.

 

[kaz]

40% of Republicans will go down with the ship. They are angry, frightened hysterical Pat Buchannan oh fear we can't compete in a free market hysterical women. That's enough to sink Johnson too.

If Trump can't pull his shit together, and it appears he can't. Hillary will win. I predicted after the primaries that Trump would win, he had everything going for him. But man, the guy is a lunatic. A lunatic versus a soulless *****. Yeah, this country can pick em ...

BTW, I am voting for Gary

I don't think Johnson has much chance of winning the election either.....but do you think there's a chance of him getting electoral votes? How about enough to push the election to the House?

The problem is Johnson would have to win a bunch of States to do that and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately we elect with a plurality in this country, you don't need a majority. Leaves the two parties as the only "viable" choice

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

They are indeed. But I'm seeing a window here I've never seen in the past. If Johnson is shrewd enough (which I'm not at all sure is the case) he could swipe this out from under both of them.

I see two critical junctures ahead. First, is getting his polling numbers up high enough to be in the debates. No only will that give him attention, it will give the Hillary haters pause to consider that maybe Johnson has a better chance than Trump. He's inching up, but the press hasn't really decided to beat on him yet.

Which brings up the next point: the press will turn on him once he presents a plausible threat, and how he handles that will be all-important. His laid back, affable personality could help him here. Liberals in the press are going to paint him as an anarchist and he'll need to convincingly downplay the hardcore libertarians ideas (legalizing ALL drugs, dismantling the FDA, dropping Social Security). That's why I think it's actually a good thing he's not a pure libertarian. But he's not a polished politician, so I don't know how that will play out.

I hope you're right, but I don't see it happening. At best, Johnson could take some red States, how would he cut into blue ones?

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't think Johnson has much chance of winning the election either.....but do you think there's a chance of him getting electoral votes? How about enough to push the election to the House?

The problem is Johnson would have to win a bunch of States to do that and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately we elect with a plurality in this country, you don't need a majority. Leaves the two parties as the only "viable" choice

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

I don't care what the predictions are. I care about casting my one vote for the best candidate.

But repeating the "Johnson can't win" propaganda helps make sure he will lose the election.

What is the point in saying that to someone who is voting for him, isn't that a message for people who think he's the best candidate and they aren't voting for him?

I'm not clear what point you're trying to make to me

You are saying you are voting for Johnson. But you also say that Trump and Hillary are the only two viable candidates. That message is saying Jobnson is a wasted vote. You are promoting the idea that he cannot win.

 

[dblack]

I don't think Johnson has much chance of winning the election either.....but do you think there's a chance of him getting electoral votes? How about enough to push the election to the House?

The problem is Johnson would have to win a bunch of States to do that and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately we elect with a plurality in this country, you don't need a majority. Leaves the two parties as the only "viable" choice

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

They are indeed. But I'm seeing a window here I've never seen in the past. If Johnson is shrewd enough (which I'm not at all sure is the case) he could swipe this out from under both of them.

I see two critical junctures ahead. First, is getting his polling numbers up high enough to be in the debates. No only will that give him attention, it will give the Hillary haters pause to consider that maybe Johnson has a better chance than Trump. He's inching up, but the press hasn't really decided to beat on him yet.

Which brings up the next point: the press will turn on him once he presents a plausible threat, and how he handles that will be all-important. His laid back, affable personality could help him here. Liberals in the press are going to paint him as an anarchist and he'll need to convincingly downplay the hardcore libertarians ideas (legalizing ALL drugs, dismantling the FDA, dropping Social Security). That's why I think it's actually a good thing he's not a pure libertarian. But he's not a polished politician, so I don't know how that will play out.

I hope you're right, but I don't see it happening. At best, Johnson could take some red States, how would he cut into blue ones?

Have you talked much with casual Bernie fans? I've talked to plenty who claimed they were also Ron Paul supporters. That's extreme cognitive dissonance to those of us who think much about government, but from a populist voter perspective it makes a kind of sense. I'll give them credit for at least being able to recognize a principled leader from a cynical sell-out. If Trump's numbers get low enough that they don't have to worry about Nadering him into office, I see lots of them voting for Johnson, especially if it means they can stick it to Hillary.

 

[easyt65]

If anyone should be ditched it should be the lying criminal who got 4 Americans needlessly killed, 1 Iranian scientist-spy killed, jeopardized national security, is bought by terrorist-supporting countries, holds rallies with Pro-Taliban homophobic fathers of terrorists who killed 49 LGBTs, and who is suffering from traumatic post-concussion syndrome and brain damage from an extremely rare blood clot experienced during her concussion.

 

[PredFan]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

 

[dblack]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[kaz]

The problem is Johnson would have to win a bunch of States to do that and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately we elect with a plurality in this country, you don't need a majority. Leaves the two parties as the only "viable" choice

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

I don't care what the predictions are. I care about casting my one vote for the best candidate.

But repeating the "Johnson can't win" propaganda helps make sure he will lose the election.

What is the point in saying that to someone who is voting for him, isn't that a message for people who think he's the best candidate and they aren't voting for him?

I'm not clear what point you're trying to make to me

You are saying you are voting for Johnson. But you also say that Trump and Hillary are the only two viable candidates. That message is saying Jobnson is a wasted vote. You are promoting the idea that he cannot win.

M'kay, but I am voting for him. The problem are people who say they would but they aren't because he isn't viable. You're fixing the wrong leg, it's the other one that's broken

 

[WinterBorn]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

 

[PredFan]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

 

[dblack]

Given the polling numbers for people who dislike both Trump and Hillary, Johnson is a viable choice.

Look at all 3 candidates on the ballot and tell me which you think would make the best president. Voting any other way is simply stupid.

I said I'm voting for Gary, I think he's the best candidate.

You know who do you support and who do you think will win are different questions, right?

I don't care what the predictions are. I care about casting my one vote for the best candidate.

But repeating the "Johnson can't win" propaganda helps make sure he will lose the election.

What is the point in saying that to someone who is voting for him, isn't that a message for people who think he's the best candidate and they aren't voting for him?

I'm not clear what point you're trying to make to me

You are saying you are voting for Johnson. But you also say that Trump and Hillary are the only two viable candidates. That message is saying Jobnson is a wasted vote. You are promoting the idea that he cannot win.

M'kay, but I am voting for him. The problem are people who say they would but they aren't because he isn't viable. You're fixing the wrong leg, it's the other one that's broken

Exactly. If democracy is going to work at all we need see that voting your conscience is a civic responsibility, not a bet that you win or lose.

 

[dblack]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

It's a solid argument. It's certainly valid to question whether there is really enough support among voters for a Libertarian president. There probably isn't. But we're not going to find out if we continue to fall for PR that it's a waste to vote for the best candidate.

 

[dblack]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

It's a solid argument. It's certainly valid to question whether there is really enough support among voters for a Libertarian president. There probably isn't. But we're not going to find out if we continue to fall for PR that it's a waste to vote for the best candidate.

This is why switching our voting system to approval voting would be such a benefit. The relative support for all candidates and parties running would be accurately represented. As it is, we have no idea how many people would be comfortable with a libertarian administration. It's certainly more than the 1% we usually get under the current election process.

 

[PredFan]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

It's a solid argument. It's certainly valid to question whether there is really enough support among voters for a Libertarian president. There probably isn't. But we're not going to find out if we continue to fall for PR that it's a waste to vote for the best candidate.

I'm a Libertarian myself, and I am not happy that the LP picked Johnson. He seems ready to sell out his principles to get votes. Regardless, what I do is vote LP locally. The only way we are going to get a LP POTUS is if people get experience in living under LP leadership. People have no idea and they have a whole lot of erroneous beliefs about it. Vote LP locally, vote GOP nationally. Eventually the day will come when a LP candidate leads all of the polls.

 

[jillian]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

Have you considered the possibility that supporters of Sanders will write in his name instead of voting for this social climber lying *****? Or even voting for Trump?

Have you considered the possibility that wavering or anti-Trump Republicans will come to their senses?

Have you considered the possibility that Democrats fooled by Hillary will see the light?

Have you considered that only fools celebrate a funeral without a cold, dead body?

you were dismissed when you referred to secretary as a *****....and then wonder why women laugh at you imbeciles

 

[dblack]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

It's a solid argument. It's certainly valid to question whether there is really enough support among voters for a Libertarian president. There probably isn't. But we're not going to find out if we continue to fall for PR that it's a waste to vote for the best candidate.

I'm a Libertarian myself, and I am not happy that the LP picked Johnson. He seems ready to sell out his principles to get votes. Regardless, what I do is vote LP locally. The only way we are going to get a LP POTUS is if people get experience in living under LP leadership. People have no idea and they have a whole lot of erroneous beliefs about it. Vote LP locally, vote GOP nationally. Eventually the day will come when a LP candidate leads all of the polls.

"The only way we are going to get a LP POTUS is if people get experience in living under LP leadership." - This part makes some sense, if we replace "LP POTUS" with "sustainable libertarian government". But I do think it's possible, and worthwhile, to take advantage of the dismal state of both major parties and slide a libertarian into the Presidency. Especially one who has experience presiding over a mostly non-libertarian government.

I have no delusions that a Johnson administration would have a huge impact. But I'm saying that's a good thing. When the public sees that libertarians aren't libertines bent on anarchy, and that electing a libertarian won't cause major upheaval in their lives, it will go a long way toward getting more local candidates actually elected.

 

[Montrovant]

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

It's a solid argument. It's certainly valid to question whether there is really enough support among voters for a Libertarian president. There probably isn't. But we're not going to find out if we continue to fall for PR that it's a waste to vote for the best candidate.

I'm a Libertarian myself, and I am not happy that the LP picked Johnson. He seems ready to sell out his principles to get votes. Regardless, what I do is vote LP locally. The only way we are going to get a LP POTUS is if people get experience in living under LP leadership. People have no idea and they have a whole lot of erroneous beliefs about it. Vote LP locally, vote GOP nationally. Eventually the day will come when a LP candidate leads all of the polls.

"The only way we are going to get a LP POTUS is if people get experience in living under LP leadership." - This part makes some sense, if we replace "LP POTUS" with "sustainable libertarian government". But I do think it's possible, and worthwhile, to take advantage of the dismal state of both major parties and slide a libertarian into the Presidency. Especially one who has experience presiding over a mostly non-libertarian government.

I have no delusions that a Johnson administration would have a huge impact. But I'm saying that's a good thing. When the public sees that libertarians aren't libertines bent on anarchy, and that electing a libertarian won't cause major upheaval in their lives, it will go a long way toward getting more local candidates actually elected.

I've been thinking along these lines as well. The fact that Johnson is not, perhaps, a 'real' libertarian is probably a positive in a lot of ways. I think I often lean towards libertarian ideals, but I would not consider myself a libertarian. I also think that libertarians can often come off as ignoring practical realities in favor of their ideology, not to mention extremely isolationist. Johnson and Weld both seem more of moderate libertarians, much as I know that term irks some people. They aren't 'hard core' libertarians and that allows for more appeal among voters who might normally vote R or D.

And as you say, I doubt that a Johnson/Weld administration would cause massive upheavals. They still have to deal with the other branches of government and the usual bureaucracy. Having them serve, even just for a single term, and not drastically change people's lives, could broaden the appeal of the Libertarian party and maybe, just maybe, open up American politics to viable parties other than the big 2.

Unfortunately, the hatred and fear people have for the 2 major candidates can also work against people voting third party. There are many who will vote against one of the candidates because they are too worried about them getting into the office. That's particularly true both with the negatives the 2 major party candidates have and with the possibility of multiple SC spots opening in the next administration.

Of course, there is always some excuse not to vote third party for a lot of people it seems to me.

 

[Montrovant]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

It's a solid argument. It's certainly valid to question whether there is really enough support among voters for a Libertarian president. There probably isn't. But we're not going to find out if we continue to fall for PR that it's a waste to vote for the best candidate.

I'm a Libertarian myself, and I am not happy that the LP picked Johnson. He seems ready to sell out his principles to get votes. Regardless, what I do is vote LP locally. The only way we are going to get a LP POTUS is if people get experience in living under LP leadership. People have no idea and they have a whole lot of erroneous beliefs about it. Vote LP locally, vote GOP nationally. Eventually the day will come when a LP candidate leads all of the polls.

Unfortunately, I think many people will only vote in presidential elections. While it seems to make sense to start from the bottom and work up, in US politics I think the opposite may actually be the only way.

 

[WinterBorn]

Donald has lost. Period. He won't get back to 40 percent in the polls. He had his chance and he failed... because he COULD NOT KEEP HIS BIG FAT TRAP SHUT.

There is one chance to avoid President Hillary - Donald's supporters need to be honest with themselves and realize Gary Johnson is the only hope. Sticking with the sinking ship guarantees Hillary in the Oval Office.

And Johnson cannot possibly win, so he has already lost too.

Only if people believe the propaganda.

Really? Are you seriously going to stick with that argument?

Yep. Both main candidates have more people who dislike them than like them. Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states.

The biggest obstacle is the notion that a 3rd party candidate cannot win.