CDZ Discussion on Pfizer Covid Vaccine

[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

That’s discrimination right? Thought you were against that, no?

"Discrimination"? In the sense of civil rights? You have no civil right to put anyone else at the peril of disease and infection by your behavior.

It is very American. To suggest you have the right to put others in harm is not American.

Naw, Americans have personal liberties I don’t owe you shit!

we also have HiPaa you don’t get my health history nor does anyone.

you’re unamerican

 

[StormAl]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

That’s discrimination right? Thought you were against that, no?

"Discrimination"? In the sense of civil rights? You have no civil right to put anyone else at the peril of disease and infection by your behavior.

It is very American. To suggest you have the right to put others in harm is not American.

Naw, Americans have personal liberties I don’t owe you shit!

Your liberty does not extend to having the right to put others in harm's way.

To suggest otherwise is not so.

 

[gipper]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

 

[StormAl]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

 

[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

That’s discrimination right? Thought you were against that, no?

"Discrimination"? In the sense of civil rights? You have no civil right to put anyone else at the peril of disease and infection by your behavior.

It is very American. To suggest you have the right to put others in harm is not American.

Naw, Americans have personal liberties I don’t owe you shit!

Your liberty does not extend to having the right to put others in harm's way.

To suggest otherwise is not so.

Nope post that statute

 

[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

Nope, HiPaa exists

 

[phoenyx]

What might be of some interest is the relationship between Pfizer and the FDA that President Trump revealed in an interview with Sean Hannity yesterday. That makes perfect sense especially considering how Pfizer and the FDA kept quiet about the new vaccine until 2 DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION. And as I posted a couple of days ago, There was a NE Journal of Medicine report on how Pfizer skewed the efficacy of their first dose by including subjects who were less than 2 weeks from their first injection. When those subjects were removed, the efficacy of the first dose went from 52% to 92%!!!!! Guess who wanted to sell lots more vaccine doses???

But then why is Trump pushing the injections?

According to Bill Gates himself, Bill persuaded Trump that Covid vaccines were a good thing. As some may remember, Trump appointed Robert F. Kennedy Jr., to chair a commission on vaccine safety and integrity back in 2017. In case anyone doesn't know who RFK Jr. is, he's the nephew to ex president JFK and founder of the Children's Health Defense site of which I have posted so many articles in this very forum. As can be expected, Time magazine was against it, but they at least reported it as happening. However, according to Bill Gates himself, he persuaded Trump to stop listening to RFK Jr. and go for the Covid Vaccines :-/.

 

[phoenyx]

600,000 people have died from COVID.

I'll take my chances with 1/2,000,000 temporary paralysis.

People are really, really, really bad at math.

People really are bad at math.

For instance, the notion that 600k people have died from covid. Sensible people know this number is a lie.

Then let's start with the fact that if only 10% of the 600k people who have died of covid actually died of covid, that means that .000074% of the people will die from Covid.

That is 1.7 tenths of a percent of dying from Covid.

Far less than dying from the 'cure'.

People are also bad at history. Pfizer like most big pharma firms has a very long history of fines and criminal actions.

Would you take a jab from the Mafia or a Mexican drug cartel?
Pfizer's History of Crimes and Misdemeanors - Progressive Radio Network
Crimes of Covid Vaccine Maker Pfizer Documented
Pfizer - History of Pfizer, Products & Legal Claims
Pfizer Hit with Largest Criminal Fine in US History

Drug maker Pfizer, Inc. and one of its subsidiaries have agreed to pay $2.3 billion dollars to settle civil and criminal charges regarding its marketing of the drug Bextra. The criminal portion of the fine is the largest fine ever levied by the United States government for any matter. As part of the settlement, Pfizer pled guilty to felony violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for marketing the drug with the intent to deceive and mislead the public.

Unfortunately, these records don't seem to last long -- Eli Lilly set the previous record with its illegal Viva Zyprexa campaign just last January.

I have no idea how people can still trust these vaccine companies. It is like trusting a psycopathic liar who has killed people in the past. I think most people are just unaware and or don't want to be aware.

Yes. It’s sad that so many people are sheep. They want to be told what to do.

What’s really hilarious are the sheep telling those of us unwilling to take a fake vaccine from a criminal entity, that we’re crazy.

The power of the media, big pharma, and the government (Axis of Evil) to deceive should never be underestimated.

Please gipper, I am hopping to make the Clean Debate Zone one where we don't insult each other with base insults. As I mentioned to Thoth, my father is generally a very intelligent man, but when it comes to vaccines, not so much. He's taken the first dose of one of the 2 dose Covid vaccines and is set to take his second. I'm trying to persuade him otherwise, not sure if I'll succeed. But what I do know is that he definitely didn't like my brother calling him a sheep. I'm thinking along the lines of my signature- we can't beat them over the head with the truth, we have to entice them to come look at the evidence we've seen.

Well...in my defense, I didn’t directly insult a poster by name.

True, but I think we can do better still

No one knows the long term effects of these vaccines, since no long term trials were completed. This alone should dissuade people, let alone all the reports of harm caused by the vaccines, their ineffectiveness against the virus, and the criminal history of the vaccine companies.

I agree. But some people have a hard time distrusting authority figures.

That’s funny because I have a problem trusting authority figures. Particularly those who have a long history of lying, cheating, and killing.

Same. Unfortunately, most people seem to trust them implicitly.

 

[phoenyx]

Getting the virus shot is a gamble, I factored in the possibility that by getting the shot I would not infect anyone or become infected. That the possibility of killing this virus to save more lives & a return to more normal life was worth the risk. 2 shots zero problems.

The problem with that conclusion is it’s not accurate. There are plenty of people who got the vaccine and then got covid and some have died.

because none are 100% effective. howeverrrrrrrrr............ statistically speaking, very few actually got the disease AND most that have after vaccinated, their symptoms were milder & avoided hospitalization.

You have any evidence to support your assertions? I have a study showing that, far from helping, those who got the Pfizer vaccine were more likely to get Covid variants:

CDZ - Will Vaccinated People Be More Vulnerable to Variants?

My mother sent me the link to this article that was just published today on Mercola.com. Here's their "story at a glance version": ** Analysis by Dr. Joseph Mercola Fact Checked April 19, 2021 STORY AT-A-GLANCE Experts have raised warnings about the problematic history of coronavirus...

www.usmessageboard.com

ummmm... every year we get a flu shot, based on the most prevalent strain(s) going around at the time.

virus' mutate. this is a brand spanking new one & the research is still evolving. tweeks & boosters will probably become the norm until/unless a cure happens.

You're missing the point- the study found that people who took the Pfizer vaccine were 8 times more likely to get a Covid 19 variant. Which means that far from helping defend against this variant, the Pfizer vaccine was actually making things worse.

Why? How many went to the hospital, how many intubated, how many died?

All very good questions. Unfortunately, it seems that those who did the study didn't say, or at least it wasn't reported on in the article I read about it. I created a thread with the study as its subject a while back, you might want to take a look:

CDZ - Pfizer Vaccine May Put People at Higher Risk for COVID Variants, Israeli Study Shows

Found this article today over at RFK Jr.'s Children's Health Defense website. Just published yesterday, think it's quite interesting. Constructive feedback welcome. ** Israeli researchers found people who received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were eight times more likely to be infected with...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[phoenyx]

No one has a 'right' to put others at risk of infection.

What evidence do you have that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk of infection from this alleged Cov 2 virus?

That's been done, as you well know, so look it up if you are interested.

I know no such thing. In fact, I believe that the evidence strongly suggests the opposite.

 

[phoenyx]

Be careful with the product. It works but is not fully verified or understood.

I actually don't think it works at all.

The evidence demonstrates clearly that it does.

Prove it then.

That's been long done.

So you assert. We are here to discuss different points of view. In any discussion, I think it's natural that it's up to those who make the assertions to provide the evidence of their assertions. Failing to do so damages the credibility of the person or people making the assertions.

So the experts assert.

I believe that the true and -honest- experts assert the opposite.

 

[gipper]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

 

[phoenyx]

Be careful with the product. It works but is not fully verified or understood.

I actually don't think it works at all.

The evidence demonstrates clearly that it does.

Prove it then.

That's been long done.

So you assert. We are here to discuss different points of view. In any discussion, I think it's natural that it's up to those who make the assertions to provide the evidence of their assertions. Failing to do so damages the credibility of the person or people making the assertions.

You believe what you believe, and that is at odd with the experts.

That is a fact.

Prove it then.

 

[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

 

[badger2]

In post #1, OP takes an example from a 33 year-old woman to form an argument against the vaccine. One could do this for years and not run out of examples, because it draws from the diversity of the entire Homo sapiens collective genome. Science cannot at this time show just which mutation in a particular variant is pro-virus or neutral, thus which amino acid change, deletion or insertion makes it more virulent. If Pfizer is less effective against a variant, it’s problematic to argue against the vaccine when the same mutation happens in other variants. Stating that Pfizer vaccine is more susceptible to the South African variant, therefore, is neither a scientific conclusion nor a scientific statement.

 

[phoenyx]

I made a thread for the Johnson and Johnson Vaccine, figure would make sense to do one for Pfizer as well. So starting it off with some quotes from an article on a 33 year old woman:
[snip]

What makes you think that having a discussion about EVERY anecdotal medical event ASSOCIATED in time only to a vaccine, is gonna end any differently? Science aint built on anecdotes.

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans. The end goal is to see if, as a group, we can come up with a conclusion as to how harmful or helpful this vaccine is.

This woman's symptoms have no medical linkage to a vaccine. The doctors can barely detect any measurements to MAKE A DIAGNOSIS..

A young woman who was apparently in fine health before taking Pfizer's Covid vaccine became paralyzed 12 hours after taking it. As you say, the doctors can't figure out why she is paralyzed. In such situations, the logical thing to do would be to consider anything unusual she has done immediately prior to becoming paralyzed. We know that she took this novel covid 'vaccine'. We know that others have also become paralyzed after taking Pfizer's vaccine. It's only natural to suspect that Pfizer's vaccine may be the reason she became paralyzed. Now, one can ofcourse say that most people haven't become paralyzed after taking Pfizer's Covid vaccine, so clearly it's not simply a matter of taking the vaccine. However, from what I've been reading, different people react to these vaccines differently. We know, for instance, that some people who have allergic reactions suffer anaphylactic shock from taking Covid vaccines. Based on the reports, it would seem that some may get paralyzed. I can certainly agree that we don't yet know why, but serious scientists don't balk at forming hypothesis and theories simply because they don't yet have the whole picture.

So a healthy college football linebacker gets his 1st Chimiganga at Chipotle Grill and the next MORNING -- wakes up with severe tingling in his extremities.. PROVE that the Chimiganga is NOT the proximate CAUSE of that condition. It does not WORK THAT WAY... If it did, we'd have no over the counter drugs, no prescription drugs and witch doctors for medical advisors..

I agree that drug companies don't have to prove that their products don't kill and injure people. I'm not even saying that they should have to. However, I think most would agree that proper safety tests should be done before allowing people to take them. I'm sure you're aware that the Covid vaccines were rushed and regular testing procedures, such as animal tests, were skipped, going straight to human trials. I hope you have heard that there were some adverse reactions in the human trials. I certainly did. In any case, the vaccine companies told us that the trials went swimmingly and now, here we are, with the Astrazeneca Covid vaccine suspended in around 20 countries last I checked, including the U.S., and the Johnson and Johnson vaccine has just been recommended for suspension as well in the U.S. due to blood clot issues. Meanwhile, both Pfizer and Moderna have had a lot more reports of blood clotting than Johnson and Johnson.

When you vaccinate MILLIONS of people, ALL - the adverse effects are reported. But the name "adverse effect" is misleading.. It should be "potential adverse effect".. It's why most prescript drugs carry so many "possible side effects".. Because in an abundance of zealous OVERPROTECTION, the FDA decides that EVERY adverse reaction must be disclosed. Even it there NO POSSIBLE connection to the drug..

I think you're flat out wrong there- if there was no possible connection, it wouldn't be listed as a -possible- side effect. Feel free to present evidence to the contrary.

Better to discuss WHY all of these anecdotal effects are USEFUL to science illiterate psuedo-celebs like RFK Jr. Because they want to believe that there are answers to autism and other mysterious diseases that are SIMPLE...

From what I've read, no one has ever argued that vaccines are the -only- cause of autism. But there is certainly a good deal of evidence that vaccines can be -a- cause of autism. For starters though, do you believe that mercury can cause autism? If not, I suggest taking a look at this article, which details the first cases of autism back in 1938:

Since 1938... Autism and Mercury

By Teresa Conrick "SINCE 1938 there have come to our attention", is becoming a famous introductory description about autism. Written by psychiatrist, Dr. Leo Kanner, it began the narrative that described those first eleven children, all born in the 1930's,...

www.ageofautism.com

I just read a bit yesterday from RFK Jr, making an unrepentant spectacle of himself, claiming that mRNA vaccines "mutilate human DNA"...

Is that an actual quote or are you attempting to convey what he said in your own words? From a previous conversation with you, it appears that it is the latter. In any case, by all means, cite the article you are referring to here and I'd be happy to take a look.

This is all you really need to know here. Because if provoking the human immune system to learn how to DESTROY a SPECIFIC foreign body to keep you well is "mutilation of human DNA" -- than you better not get a bee sting or get ringworm..

Without getting into what you alleged RFK said (I await your citation), I'm sure you're well aware that for people with alergic reactions to them, bee stings can be fatal due to anaphylaxis:

Why bee stings can be fatal

Three Britons have died in the past month from bee or wasp stings. Rebecca Allison explains why such an everyday hazard can be fatal

www.theguardian.com

Some people who get vaccines also get anaphylaxis and die as well.

 

[flacaltenn]

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans.

getting your experimental data from NEWS sites and quack conspiracy sites -- is that gonna bias the outcome of your research??

Hey.. Full Stop.. Anecdotal stories -- especially media pieces -- are NOT valid research -- EVER...
Try reading outside the "comfortable" sources..

Now during a pandemic -- FULL academic research with rigid clinical trials is TOO SLOW.. And some "on the go" studies from PRACTIONERS who are on the front lines toe-tagging dead Cvid patients MIGHT and SHOULD get some credibility if anyone wanted to save lives... But even THAT is based on careful PERSONAL and up close observation and statistics of treatments and results..

 

[phoenyx]

In post #1, OP takes an example from a 33 year-old woman to form an argument against the vaccine. One could do this for years and not run out of examples, because it draws from the diversity of the entire Homo sapiens collective genome. Science cannot at this time show just which mutation in a particular variant is pro-virus or neutral, thus which amino acid change, deletion or insertion makes it more virulent. If Pfizer is less effective against a variant, it’s problematic to argue against the vaccine when the same mutation happens in other variants. Stating that Pfizer vaccine is more susceptible to the South African variant, therefore, is neither a scientific conclusion nor a scientific statement.

It's actually the conclusion of a scientific study. Feel free to participate in the thread I made for the study here:

CDZ - Pfizer Vaccine May Put People at Higher Risk for COVID Variants, Israeli Study Shows

Found this article today over at RFK Jr.'s Children's Health Defense website. Just published yesterday, think it's quite interesting. Constructive feedback welcome. ** Israeli researchers found people who received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were eight times more likely to be infected with...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[phoenyx]

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans.

getting your experimental data from NEWS sites and quack conspiracy sites -- is that gonna bias the outcome of your research??

Hey.. Full Stop.. Anecdotal stories -- especially media pieces -- are NOT valid research -- EVER...

Prove it.

 

[flacaltenn]

Is that an actual quote or are you attempting to convey what he said in your own words? From a previous conversation with you, it appears that it is the latter. In any case, by all means, cite the article you are referring to here and I'd be happy to take a look.

Gave you a link to the exact quote yesterday.. Maybe in the other thread.

Without getting into what you alleged RFK said (I await your citation), I'm sure you're well aware that for people with alergic reactions to them, bee stings can be fatal due to anaphylaxis:

Why bee stings can be fatal

Three Britons have died in the past month from bee or wasp stings. Rebecca Allison explains why such an everyday hazard can be fatal

www.theguardian.com

Some people who get vaccines also get anaphylaxis and die as well.

You missed the entire point because youre not thinking about topic of introducing "foreign DNA" into the human body.. It's not only VENOM that gets into body -- but when a bee INJECTS YOU -- other parts of that bee's body and their DNA get injected.

Why is that not a fear for "multilating Human DNA"???

Anaphylaxis shock from vaccines DO NOT COME from the primary ingredients. It generally is reaction to a preservative or other component. And THEY ASK YOU if you have ever had an allergic to ANY vaccine in the screening..

Besides any Brownie or Cub Scout knows that folks do not have to DIE from anaphylaxis shock.. That's why at EVERY COVID INJ. site there's a 15 minute holding protocol and observation. And a SINGLE "epi-pen" injection will reverse that shock... "epi-pens" are in every school office, workplace 1st aid kit and CERTAINLY within every clinic or site doing mass injections..