CDZ Discussion on Pfizer Covid Vaccine

[phoenyx]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk.

Before the WHO and the CDC scared a lot of people into thinking that lockdowns, wearing masks and getting vaxxed were the only way we could avoid an apocalypse, we were doing just fine without all of these things. I believe there is plenty of evidence that all of these things are doing far more harm than good. If you have evidence that these things are helping us, though, by all means present it. Only, if you could limit any evidence in this thread to just the Pfizer Covid Vaccine, I think we've begun to get rather off topic in this thread . For masks, you might consider this thread:

CDZ - The merits of mask wearing in these covid times

Some posters started talking about masks and their merits in another thread of mine, I thought it might be good to have a thread here dedicated to this subject. For my part, I wear masks where I have to, which is mainly stores and hospitals (they generally have someone checking to see if you...

www.usmessageboard.com

You can't prove any of your points is the point.

I never claimed I could. Do you admit the same?

 

[StormAl]

The US Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document to be put aside in the face of crisis, if we even have a crisis to deal with.

I am reminded of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. " In the allegory, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but are not accurate representations of the real world. "

So it is with people who believe that an unproven personal fear gives them the right to control the shadows. These individuals do not understand reality because they have been chained to their philosophy of fear all their lives. They cannot fathom that the 'shadows' on the wall are real and are free and unencumbered by the deceit of those who have imprisoned in the cave.

They know no better, therefore they chase the chimera of their ideology, thinking that they have control over the shadows and can enforce this control.

The reality is, that the shadows are the only true reality while those who live in chains are to be pitied.

There is nothing the government nor a business can do to force an American to live in the servitude of the State. We do NOT recognize the government's mantra of "Papers please".

Just as it is unlawful to discriminate against a person of color in a business, so too will it be unlawful to demand a person's' papers'.

Those who believe otherwise need to behave themselvels.

Following lawful government iaw the Constitution is certainly the government's business to ensure that citizens comply. The document is not libertarian, and those who suggest otherwise are unable to understand the Constitution, America, or its history.

Not one of you has a lawful right to infect others with disease.

Hello shadow. How do you enjoy your chains today?

No one is infecting others. No one has the right to take a personal fear and limit the liberties of others.

The Constitution is NOT a fair-weather document, to be cherished in the good times only.

No one has the right to abuse the civil liberties of others.

Now behave yourself and come out of the cave.

You live in the shadows, and the caring Americans will live in the light of the constitution.

Darkwind, your light in your cave of shadows is flickering out.

ps: Plato is certainly associated, although with differences, to fascism.

I am not surprised this appeals to the far right and libertarian wings in America.

That is too funny shadow.

I support and defend the Constitution from the likes of you. I even swore an oath and served because I believe in so much that I'd lay down My life for it. However, I was raised in the light and the love of liberty and freedom from oppressive evils like a government that can force you to provide proof of their dictate to inject you with the harmful substance on the unfounded fears of those who live on their knees.

My light will never go out as long as there are freedom-loving people willing to stand up and spit in the face of oppressors like you.

ps. Plato is associated with Democracy, a proven and failed concept. However, that does not alter the truth of the allegory as it pertains to people like you. It really isn't a wonder that you see fascism in everything. It shines out at you from your mirror.

You clearly do not understand basic American principles.

You are very weak on Platonic philosophy. It enhances the educated leaders and expects the plebs to be led by their betters.

 

[StormAl]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk.

Before the WHO and the CDC scared a lot of people into thinking that lockdowns, wearing masks and getting vaxxed were the only way we could avoid an apocalypse, we were doing just fine without all of these things. I believe there is plenty of evidence that all of these things are doing far more harm than good. If you have evidence that these things are helping us, though, by all means present it. Only, if you could limit any evidence in this thread to just the Pfizer Covid Vaccine, I think we've begun to get rather off topic in this thread . For masks, you might consider this thread:

CDZ - The merits of mask wearing in these covid times

Some posters started talking about masks and their merits in another thread of mine, I thought it might be good to have a thread here dedicated to this subject. For my part, I wear masks where I have to, which is mainly stores and hospitals (they generally have someone checking to see if you...

www.usmessageboard.com

You can't prove any of your points is the point.

I never claimed I could. Do you admit the same?

I don't have to, whereas it is your obligation in this case.

 

[StormAl]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk. Read for understanding, please.

Says the little tinpot shadow. Every day, people are exposed to germs and diseases. EVERY DAY.

You cannot lock up everyone because you have a fear.

You don't lock up anyone. Those who won't vax will not be able to participate in many activities beyond their front doors.

 

[gipper]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk. Read for understanding, please.

But you’re wrong.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

No one has a 'right' to put others at risk of infection.

What evidence do you have that not wearing a mask and/or getting vaccinated puts others at risk of infection from this alleged Cov 2 virus?

That's been done, as you well know, so look it up if you are interested.

I know no such thing. In fact, I believe that the evidence strongly suggests the opposite.

Your denial is so weak. Do your research and please report back.

Oh my the irony,I see you are looking in the mirror.

That is you seeing yourself.

Nope that’s you.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk. Read for understanding, please.

But you’re wrong.

The understatement of the year.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

600,000 people have died from COVID.

WITH Covid... Not from.

I'll take my chances with 1/2,000,000 temporary paralysis.

I'll take my chances with the flu. Which is what it is for ME and 99% of the rest of the healthy population.

People are really, really, really bad at math.

Some people let others think for them to the point of intellectual insanity.

You nailed it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

600,000 people have died from COVID.

I'll take my chances with 1/2,000,000 temporary paralysis.

People are really, really, really bad at math.

People really are bad at math.

For instance, the notion that 600k people have died from covid. Sensible people know this number is a lie.

Then let's start with the fact that if only 10% of the 600k people who have died of covid actually died of covid, that means that .000074% of the people will die from Covid.

That is 1.7 tenths of a percent of dying from Covid.

Far less than dying from the 'cure'.

You are making far too much sense fir him to comprehend.lol

 

[LA RAM FAN]

600,000 people have died from COVID.

I'll take my chances with 1/2,000,000 temporary paralysis.

People are really, really, really bad at math.

People really are bad at math.

For instance, the notion that 600k people have died from covid. Sensible people know this number is a lie.

Then let's start with the fact that if only 10% of the 600k people who have died of covid actually died of covid, that means that .000074% of the people will die from Covid.

That is 1.7 tenths of a percent of dying from Covid.

Far less than dying from the 'cure'.

People are also bad at history. Pfizer like most big pharma firms has a very long history of fines and criminal actions.

Would you take a jab from the Mafia or a Mexican drug cartel?
Pfizer's History of Crimes and Misdemeanors - Progressive Radio Network
Crimes of Covid Vaccine Maker Pfizer Documented
Pfizer - History of Pfizer, Products & Legal Claims
Pfizer Hit with Largest Criminal Fine in US History

Drug maker Pfizer, Inc. and one of its subsidiaries have agreed to pay $2.3 billion dollars to settle civil and criminal charges regarding its marketing of the drug Bextra. The criminal portion of the fine is the largest fine ever levied by the United States government for any matter. As part of the settlement, Pfizer pled guilty to felony violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for marketing the drug with the intent to deceive and mislead the public.

Unfortunately, these records don't seem to last long -- Eli Lilly set the previous record with its illegal Viva Zyprexa campaign just last January.

I have no idea how people can still trust these vaccine companies. It is like trusting a psycopathic liar who has killed people in the past. I think most people are just unaware and or don't want to be aware.

Could not have said it better myself gipper.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

600,000 people have died from COVID.

I'll take my chances with 1/2,000,000 temporary paralysis.

People are really, really, really bad at math.

People really are bad at math.

For instance, the notion that 600k people have died from covid. Sensible people know this number is a lie.

Then let's start with the fact that if only 10% of the 600k people who have died of covid actually died of covid, that means that .000074% of the people will die from Covid.

That is 1.7 tenths of a percent of dying from Covid.

Far less than dying from the 'cure'.

People are also bad at history. Pfizer like most big pharma firms has a very long history of fines and criminal actions.

Would you take a jab from the Mafia or a Mexican drug cartel?
Pfizer's History of Crimes and Misdemeanors - Progressive Radio Network
Crimes of Covid Vaccine Maker Pfizer Documented
Pfizer - History of Pfizer, Products & Legal Claims
Pfizer Hit with Largest Criminal Fine in US History

Drug maker Pfizer, Inc. and one of its subsidiaries have agreed to pay $2.3 billion dollars to settle civil and criminal charges regarding its marketing of the drug Bextra. The criminal portion of the fine is the largest fine ever levied by the United States government for any matter. As part of the settlement, Pfizer pled guilty to felony violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for marketing the drug with the intent to deceive and mislead the public.

Unfortunately, these records don't seem to last long -- Eli Lilly set the previous record with its illegal Viva Zyprexa campaign just last January.

I have no idea how people can still trust these vaccine companies. It is like trusting a psycopathic liar who has killed people in the past. I think most people are just unaware and or don't want to be aware.

Yes. It’s sad that so many people are sheep. They want to be told what to do.

What’s really hilarious are the sheep telling those of us unwilling to take a fake vaccine from a criminal entity, that we’re crazy.

The power of the media, big pharma, and the government (Axis of Evil) to deceive should never be underestimated.

Please gipper, I am hopping to make the Clean Debate Zone one where we don't insult each other with base insults. As I mentioned to Thoth, my father is generally a very intelligent man, but when it comes to vaccines, not so much. He's taken the first dose of one of the 2 dose Covid vaccines and is set to take his second. I'm trying to persuade him otherwise, not sure if I'll succeed. But what I do know is that he definitely didn't like my brother calling him a sheep. I'm thinking along the lines of my signature- we can't beat them over the head with the truth, we have to entice them to come look at the evidence we've seen.

Well...in my defense, I didn’t directly insult a poster by name.

True, but I think we can do better still

No one knows the long term effects of these vaccines, since no long term trials were completed. This alone should dissuade people, let alone all the reports of harm caused by the vaccines, their ineffectiveness against the virus, and the criminal history of the vaccine companies.

I agree. But some people have a hard time distrusting authority figures.

That’s funny because I have a problem trusting authority figures. Particularly those who have a long history of lying, cheating, and killing.

Yet so many here at this site still do even after all these decades later despite their decades long history of lying,cheating,and killing.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Getting the virus shot is a gamble, I factored in the possibility that by getting the shot I would not infect anyone or become infected. That the possibility of killing this virus to save more lives & a return to more normal life was worth the risk. 2 shots zero problems.

So, how did that work out for you? You've had the shots. Have you managed to return to a normal life? Or are you still obeying a government that says "get the shots, but continue to mask and social distance" because, you know. The shots work.

Dark wind, It took me a while to realize that everyone has to make there own choice, I was angry for a while that those who would not mask in grocery stores or stay 6 feet away from me did not care if they endangered my old life. I looked at all the information & then made my decision on the fact that All HOSPITALS were requiring masks & went with the majority of doctors & medical personal opinion. MY choice.

I see you have not done your research to know that the best doctors in the world have said we don’t need masks or that bs six feet social distancing.I can understand if you thought that in the beginning but now? Seriously? Lol I really feel sorry for all the people that have come on here saying they took that poison called vaccine,it’s designed to kill you off in a five to ten year period.

 

[flacaltenn]

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans.

getting your experimental data from NEWS sites and quack conspiracy sites -- is that gonna bias the outcome of your research??

Hey.. Full Stop.. Anecdotal stories -- especially media pieces -- are NOT valid research -- EVER...

Prove it.

That's weird request.

Why? You made a claim, in capsed letters no less, one would expect you to have proof on hand. Anyway, moving on...

Ever in your education did the topic of "the scientific method" come up?

Sure. I'll quote Wikipedia's explanation of the process:
**
The process in the scientific method involves making conjectures (hypotheses), deriving predictions from them as logical consequences, and then carrying out experiments or empirical observations based on those predictions.[4][5] A hypothesis is a conjecture, based on knowledge obtained while seeking answers to the question. The hypothesis might be very specific, or it might be broad. Scientists then test hypotheses by conducting experiments or studies. A scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable, implying that it is possible to identify a possible outcome of an experiment or observation that conflicts with predictions deduced from the hypothesis; otherwise, the hypothesis cannot be meaningfully tested.[6]
**
Source:

Scientific method - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

News stories are empirical observations- that's where they'd fit in.

Didn't dive deep enough.. The PROOF is in YOU finding a textbook description of how to set up and research a hypothesis.. Try searching "basic experimental methodology" or "anecdotal evidence in science"..

That last search returns a wiki page at the top that VALIDATES what I told you.. Would be good IF you were actually interested in science to spend more reading about it.. You'll be less manipulated by people with agendas... It's the only way to protect yourself in the Internet age when everything is at the fingertips of everybody, but most people only seek CONFIRMATIONAL BIAS to support their preconceived notions.. AT LEAST - read some stuff from "the other side"...



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

• Anecdotal evidence is considered the least certain type of scientific information. Researchers may use anecdotal evidence for suggesting new hypotheses, but never as validating evidence. Anecdotal evidence is often unscientific or pseudoscientific because various forms of cognitive bias may
  Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia
  
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
  Was this helpful?
  
  
• PEOPLE ALSO ASK
  What is anecdotal evidence and how can it be used?
  Anecdotal evidence is popularly used in advertising and marketing of goods and services, as research suggests that viewers are more likely to remember certain extraordinary examples rather than a generalized example. Hence, advertisers use anecdotal evidence to promote their products.
  A Simplified Explanation of Anecdotal Evidence With ...
  psychologenie.com/explanation-of-anecdotal-evidence-wi…
• 
  
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[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

You have no constitutional right to tell me that

 

[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

So you think getting the jab prevents you from infecting others. This is foolish statist thinking. There is absolutely no scientific proof this is true.

That is certainly a foolish libertarian statement. You are no expert on the science of this issue, and you certainly do not comprehend American law, history, or its Constitution.

Ohhhh the irony

 

[jc456]

As mentioned elsewhere, what you call anecdotes, I call evidence. Science is about observing reality, coming up with hypotheses as to why reality is the way it is, and then finding ways to test these hypotheses to come up with theories as to how the world works. In this thread, I am trying to gather evidence as to what the Pfizer Covid vaccine does to humans.

getting your experimental data from NEWS sites and quack conspiracy sites -- is that gonna bias the outcome of your research??

Hey.. Full Stop.. Anecdotal stories -- especially media pieces -- are NOT valid research -- EVER...

Prove it.

That's weird request.

Why? You made a claim, in capsed letters no less, one would expect you to have proof on hand. Anyway, moving on...

Ever in your education did the topic of "the scientific method" come up?

Sure. I'll quote Wikipedia's explanation of the process:
**
The process in the scientific method involves making conjectures (hypotheses), deriving predictions from them as logical consequences, and then carrying out experiments or empirical observations based on those predictions.[4][5] A hypothesis is a conjecture, based on knowledge obtained while seeking answers to the question. The hypothesis might be very specific, or it might be broad. Scientists then test hypotheses by conducting experiments or studies. A scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable, implying that it is possible to identify a possible outcome of an experiment or observation that conflicts with predictions deduced from the hypothesis; otherwise, the hypothesis cannot be meaningfully tested.[6]
**
Source:

Scientific method - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

News stories are empirical observations- that's where they'd fit in.

Didn't dive deep enough.. The PROOF is in YOU finding a textbook description of how to set up and research a hypothesis.. Try searching "basic experimental methodology" or "anecdotal evidence in science"..

That last search returns a wiki page at the top that VALIDATES what I told you.. Would be good IF you were actually interested in science to spend more reading about it.. You'll be less manipulated by people with agendas... It's the only way to protect yourself in the Internet age when everything is at the fingertips of everybody, but most people only seek CONFIRMATIONAL BIAS to support their preconceived notions.. AT LEAST - read some stuff from "the other side"...



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

• Anecdotal evidence is considered the least certain type of scientific information. Researchers may use anecdotal evidence for suggesting new hypotheses, but never as validating evidence. Anecdotal evidence is often unscientific or pseudoscientific because various forms of cognitive bias may
  Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia
  
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
  Was this helpful?
  https://www.usmessageboard.com/javascript:void(0)
• PEOPLE ALSO ASK
  What is anecdotal evidence and how can it be used?
  Anecdotal evidence is popularly used in advertising and marketing of goods and services, as research suggests that viewers are more likely to remember certain extraordinary examples rather than a generalized example. Hence, advertisers use anecdotal evidence to promote their products.
  A Simplified Explanation of Anecdotal Evidence With ...
  psychologenie.com/explanation-of-anecdotal-evidence-wi…
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

Speaking of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[jc456]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

So you think getting the jab prevents you from infecting others. This is foolish statist thinking. There is absolutely no scientific proof this is true.

He has no evidence it does anything more than make his arm sore

 

[flacaltenn]

because not enough people are vaccinated yet.

I'm never getting vaccinated. what are you going to do about it? You can't justify getting vaccinated, my genepool is much longer lived than a dangerous vaccine. there's that. over thirteen months clean dude. you're mistaken. your philosophy is stained.

At this time, it is your legal right to be an unfortunate. No one can make you get it. However, you can be denied access to public events, trains, airplanes, private venues, etc.: the number will be growing into the thousands.

As an American you should be appalled by this, but you’re not.

The land of the free is now the land of the serfs. The home of the brave is now the home of the sheep.

I am appalled with you and your misguided thinking. Don't take the vax if you don't want, and be American enough to abide by your crazy behavior.

Yeah in America today refusing to abide by the dictates of the establishment is crazy and extreme.

What the fuck has happened to my country?

You confuse that the Constitution as "the dictates of the establishment" is your problem not anyone else's.

You don't have to take the vax.

But if certain entities and businesses require the vax and the mask, guess what: you are up!

You might want to read the Constitution.

He thinks his thoughts are the new constitution! Hahaha can’t make it up

You don't have to take the vax, and you do have to live with that choice.

You have no constitutional right to infect others with disease.

So you think getting the jab prevents you from infecting others. This is foolish statist thinking. There is absolutely no scientific proof this is true.

He has no evidence it does anything more than make his arm sore

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

 

[jc456]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk.

Before the WHO and the CDC scared a lot of people into thinking that lockdowns, wearing masks and getting vaxxed were the only way we could avoid an apocalypse, we were doing just fine without all of these things. I believe there is plenty of evidence that all of these things are doing far more harm than good. If you have evidence that these things are helping us, though, by all means present it. Only, if you could limit any evidence in this thread to just the Pfizer Covid Vaccine, I think we've begun to get rather off topic in this thread . For masks, you might consider this thread:

CDZ - The merits of mask wearing in these covid times

Some posters started talking about masks and their merits in another thread of mine, I thought it might be good to have a thread here dedicated to this subject. For my part, I wear masks where I have to, which is mainly stores and hospitals (they generally have someone checking to see if you...

www.usmessageboard.com

You can't prove any of your points is the point.

I never claimed I could. Do you admit the same?

I don't have to, whereas it is your obligation in this case.

Why don’t you?

 

[gipper]

I have been saying that no one has the right to expose others to germs and disease. That means not wearing a mask or not getting vaxxed does put others at risk. Read for understanding, please.

Says the little tinpot shadow. Every day, people are exposed to germs and diseases. EVERY DAY.

You cannot lock up everyone because you have a fear.

You don't lock up anyone. Those who won't vax will not be able to participate in many activities beyond their front doors.

Go ahead say it...we need gas chambers to liquidate these ingrates.