Discovery of stone seal from the time of King David proves Jewish roots to Jerusalem

[Indeependent]

If you don't want to answer the question, punk, then don't answer. R.C. here. both Islam and Judaism are crap cults to me.

Let's allow Challenger to answer the question asked of Challenger.

 

[flacaltenn]

The blacks in South Africa figured out how to overcome their "severe disadvantage". In Rhodesia too, but the white Rhodesians were too stubborn and were virtually eliminated. Demographics are a *****.

Yep... What a glorious success Zimbawe is.. MUCH snarkier name than Rhodesia ain't it?

MUCH better to have corrupt patronage and lose your total economy to ineptitude and greed. There's a lesson there somewhere. And it's got NOTHING to do with gaining "freedom"..

At least they were free to make their own choices and their own mistakes, rather than being subjugated by foreigners who kept the wealth for themselves. Corrupt patronage is no stranger to American or European politics is it?

Can't compare the complete failure of Zimbabwe to ANYTHING experienced in Western politics. We don't do racial PURGES, massive land/property grabs accompanied by vigilantes, and an economy that was once the pride of Middle Africa reduced to wheel barrows of currency to buy a loaf of bread..

No -- they have MUCH LESS freedom than they did before. And security and law. UNLESS --- you're a relative or a special crony...

 

[Phoenall]

Somehow Monte thinks that just because the Palestinians share genes with the Jews that somehow, perhaps, that Jerusalem belongs to them.

Rofl.

Is that any more silly than believing an old rock matters?

Then you have just admitted that you don't want any historical link between the Jews and the temple mount to be found because it blows apart your whole POV. If that old rock proved that mo'mad travelled to Jerusalem and through time you would be pushing it for all it was worth.

Im saying i don't give a shit what rock is found, it's irrelevant to today.

Only because it bursts your bubble and leaves you with egg on your face. It prove just one small connection between the Jews and the Temple mount prior to Herods rule and the existence of a Biblical figure that you have tried to wipe of the history of the world.

 

[montelatici]

The blacks in South Africa figured out how to overcome their "severe disadvantage". In Rhodesia too, but the white Rhodesians were too stubborn and were virtually eliminated. Demographics are a *****.

Yep... What a glorious success Zimbawe is.. MUCH snarkier name than Rhodesia ain't it?

MUCH better to have corrupt patronage and lose your total economy to ineptitude and greed. There's a lesson there somewhere. And it's got NOTHING to do with gaining "freedom"..

At least they were free to make their own choices and their own mistakes, rather than being subjugated by foreigners who kept the wealth for themselves. Corrupt patronage is no stranger to American or European politics is it?

Can't compare the complete failure of Zimbabwe to ANYTHING experienced in Western politics. We don't do racial PURGES, massive land/property grabs accompanied by vigilantes, and an economy that was once the pride of Middle Africa reduced to wheel barrows of currency to buy a loaf of bread..

No -- they have MUCH LESS freedom than they did before. And security and law. UNLESS --- you're a relative or a special crony...

There should no longer be apologists for white (benevolent master) minority rule, it is a racist concept. In any case, while it is true that Rhodesia was economically more viable when ruled by whites, it is not true that blacks "have much less freedom" under self-rule. That's nonsense. Rhodesia was under martial law and blacks were routinely shot and beaten under Ian Smith's rule.

Unfortunately, unlike the South African whites, the Rhodesians had leadership more like the current Israeli leadership, hence reconciliation as between non-whites and whites was impossible. Ian Smith sounded like Nutty Yahoo does today.

 

[Phoenall]

Some Muslims mass murder, some Christians mass murder, some Jews mass murder, some Hindus mass murder, some Buddhists mass murder and some Atheists mass murder.

Why obsess on the Muslim variety?

Because it is commanded of them by their God and becomes a religious observance. Don't you read the koran and hadiths

 

[Indeependent]

Somehow Monte thinks that just because the Palestinians share genes with the Jews that somehow, perhaps, that Jerusalem belongs to them.

Rofl.

Is that any more silly than believing an old rock matters?

Then you have just admitted that you don't want any historical link between the Jews and the temple mount to be found because it blows apart your whole POV. If that old rock proved that mo'mad travelled to Jerusalem and through time you would be pushing it for all it was worth.

Im saying i don't give a shit what rock is found, it's irrelevant to today.

Only because it bursts your bubble and leaves you with egg on your face. It prove just one small connection between the Jews and the Temple mount prior to Herods rule and the existence of a Biblical figure that you have tried to wipe of the history of the world.

You are conversing with people who have never opened an academically accepted history book.

 

[Phoenall]

If you don't want to answer the question, punk, then don't answer. R.C. here. both Islam and Judaism are crap cults to me.

So why do you deny the mass murder of Christians in Palestine and defend islamonazi terrorism

 

[Phoenall]

Somehow Monte thinks that just because the Palestinians share genes with the Jews that somehow, perhaps, that Jerusalem belongs to them.

Rofl.

Is that any more silly than believing an old rock matters?

Then you have just admitted that you don't want any historical link between the Jews and the temple mount to be found because it blows apart your whole POV. If that old rock proved that mo'mad travelled to Jerusalem and through time you would be pushing it for all it was worth.

Im saying i don't give a shit what rock is found, it's irrelevant to today.

Only because it bursts your bubble and leaves you with egg on your face. It prove just one small connection between the Jews and the Temple mount prior to Herods rule and the existence of a Biblical figure that you have tried to wipe of the history of the world.

You are conversing with people who have never opened an academically accepted history book.

I can still try and educate them a little bit, and make them see that their views of the world are not the only ones.

 

[Kondor3]

None of this happy horseshit makes any difference whatsoever.

The Jews captured Jerusalem during their early wars with the Canaanites and kept it for over a thousand years before losing it, given an intermission or two.

The Muslims captured Jerusalem during their early wars with the Eastern Roman Empire and kept it for over a thousand years before losing it, given an intermission or two.

The author H.G. Wells, in his "Outline of History", described control of the Holy Land as being like having one's living room in the middle of a busy four-lane highway.

States and empires and kingdoms controlling the region come and go, when viewed at the macro-level, rather like someone merely changing socks.

The Jews have returned, and now hold the pink-slip (deed-title) to the place - a prize of war, after the Arabs nudged the Israelis into war in 1967.

The biggest (truthful) objection is that the Muslims just don't like losing territory.

Tough shit.

Learn to live with it.

It's what happens at the end of a centuries-long multi-generational slide into degeneracy and military and political impotency.

It's your turn in the barrel.

Enjoy.

It's your turn in the barrel.

Enjoy.

No doubt, but the wheel of history is still turning and the fat lady hasn't begun singing yet.

Wake me up when she does...

 

[Challenger]

Did he? How do you know?

The Book of James...the earliest chronological book in TNT.
I thought you knew everything!

A book of fairy stories, is that it? I'll take that as an emphatic, "I don't know" from Indeependant.

I presume you are not Christian.

Humanist.

A Humanist who doesn't post on the issue of mass murders by Muslims?
Let's try that again.

As I've said countless times this forum is about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, you want to discuss mass murders throughout history, do so in the appropriate forum; I'm not that interested. You want to keep raising straw men just to knock them down, feel free, but don't expect me to join in.

 

[Challenger]

The blacks in South Africa figured out how to overcome their "severe disadvantage". In Rhodesia too, but the white Rhodesians were too stubborn and were virtually eliminated. Demographics are a *****.

Yep... What a glorious success Zimbawe is.. MUCH snarkier name than Rhodesia ain't it?

MUCH better to have corrupt patronage and lose your total economy to ineptitude and greed. There's a lesson there somewhere. And it's got NOTHING to do with gaining "freedom"..

At least they were free to make their own choices and their own mistakes, rather than being subjugated by foreigners who kept the wealth for themselves. Corrupt patronage is no stranger to American or European politics is it?

Can't compare the complete failure of Zimbabwe to ANYTHING experienced in Western politics. We don't do racial PURGES, massive land/property grabs accompanied by vigilantes, and an economy that was once the pride of Middle Africa reduced to wheel barrows of currency to buy a loaf of bread..

No -- they have MUCH LESS freedom than they did before. And security and law. UNLESS --- you're a relative or a special crony...

Ukraine? Yugoslavia?

 

[Phoenall]

The Book of James...the earliest chronological book in TNT.
I thought you knew everything!

A book of fairy stories, is that it? I'll take that as an emphatic, "I don't know" from Indeependant.

I presume you are not Christian.

Humanist.

A Humanist who doesn't post on the issue of mass murders by Muslims?
Let's try that again.

As I've said countless times this forum is about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, you want to discuss mass murders throughout history, do so in the appropriate forum; I'm not that interested. You want to keep raising straw men just to knock them down, feel free, but don't expect me to join in.

The same applies to you then when you go off topic and bring up other theatres of interest

 

[Challenger]

None of this happy horseshit makes any difference whatsoever.

The Jews captured Jerusalem during their early wars with the Canaanites and kept it for over a thousand years before losing it, given an intermission or two.

The Muslims captured Jerusalem during their early wars with the Eastern Roman Empire and kept it for over a thousand years before losing it, given an intermission or two.

The author H.G. Wells, in his "Outline of History", described control of the Holy Land as being like having one's living room in the middle of a busy four-lane highway.

States and empires and kingdoms controlling the region come and go, when viewed at the macro-level, rather like someone merely changing socks.

The Jews have returned, and now hold the pink-slip (deed-title) to the place - a prize of war, after the Arabs nudged the Israelis into war in 1967.

The biggest (truthful) objection is that the Muslims just don't like losing territory.

Tough shit.

Learn to live with it.

It's what happens at the end of a centuries-long multi-generational slide into degeneracy and military and political impotency.

It's your turn in the barrel.

Enjoy.

It's your turn in the barrel.

Enjoy.

No doubt, but the wheel of history is still turning and the fat lady hasn't begun singing yet.

Wake me up when she does...

I won't have to...

 

[flacaltenn]

The blacks in South Africa figured out how to overcome their "severe disadvantage". In Rhodesia too, but the white Rhodesians were too stubborn and were virtually eliminated. Demographics are a *****.

Yep... What a glorious success Zimbawe is.. MUCH snarkier name than Rhodesia ain't it?

MUCH better to have corrupt patronage and lose your total economy to ineptitude and greed. There's a lesson there somewhere. And it's got NOTHING to do with gaining "freedom"..

At least they were free to make their own choices and their own mistakes, rather than being subjugated by foreigners who kept the wealth for themselves. Corrupt patronage is no stranger to American or European politics is it?

Can't compare the complete failure of Zimbabwe to ANYTHING experienced in Western politics. We don't do racial PURGES, massive land/property grabs accompanied by vigilantes, and an economy that was once the pride of Middle Africa reduced to wheel barrows of currency to buy a loaf of bread..

No -- they have MUCH LESS freedom than they did before. And security and law. UNLESS --- you're a relative or a special crony...

There should no longer be apologists for white (benevolent master) minority rule, it is a racist concept. In any case, while it is true that Rhodesia was economically more viable when ruled by whites, it is not true that blacks "have much less freedom" under self-rule. That's nonsense. Rhodesia was under martial law and blacks were routinely shot and beaten under Ian Smith's rule.

Unfortunately, unlike the South African whites, the Rhodesians had leadership more like the current Israeli leadership, hence reconciliation as between non-whites and whites was impossible. Ian Smith sounded like Nutty Yahoo does today.

How shocked am I that you are clueless about the depths of depravity in Zimbabwe? I'm not. You have probably been Noah Chomsky'd into your fallacious world views of this conflict as well as the Palestinian issue..

Let's not go here in this forum --- but I'd be glad to educate you about what a HELL-HOLE Rhodesia has turned into in the proper forum.. For example..

Zimbabwe: new documents claim to prove Mugabe ordered Gukurahundi killings

From January 1983, a campaign of terror was waged against the Ndebele people in Matabeleland in western Zimbabwe. The so-called Gukurahundi massacres remain the darkest period in the country’s post-independence history, when more than 20,000 civilians were killed by Robert Mugabe’s feared Fifth Brigade.

No one has accepted the blame for the violence, but the recent release of historical documents has shed new light on those responsible.

The wide-ranging reports include diplomatic correspondence, intelligence assessments and raw intelligence garnered by spies recruited from within the Zimbabwean government.

These papers – augmented by my investigations and the testimony of Zimbabwean witnesses – appear to substantiate what survivors and scholars have always suspected: Mugabe, then prime minister, was the prime architect of well-planned and systematically executed mass killings

Don't blame Netanyahu for the lack of leadership and vision of your Palis.. All of these other examples you have brought in here are CLEAR predictors of success/failure. You can completely predict the outcome of "independence struggles" by the quality and communications ability of the leadership.

Thanks for proving that point for me...

 

[flacaltenn]

The blacks in South Africa figured out how to overcome their "severe disadvantage". In Rhodesia too, but the white Rhodesians were too stubborn and were virtually eliminated. Demographics are a *****.

Yep... What a glorious success Zimbawe is.. MUCH snarkier name than Rhodesia ain't it?

MUCH better to have corrupt patronage and lose your total economy to ineptitude and greed. There's a lesson there somewhere. And it's got NOTHING to do with gaining "freedom"..

At least they were free to make their own choices and their own mistakes, rather than being subjugated by foreigners who kept the wealth for themselves. Corrupt patronage is no stranger to American or European politics is it?

Can't compare the complete failure of Zimbabwe to ANYTHING experienced in Western politics. We don't do racial PURGES, massive land/property grabs accompanied by vigilantes, and an economy that was once the pride of Middle Africa reduced to wheel barrows of currency to buy a loaf of bread..

No -- they have MUCH LESS freedom than they did before. And security and law. UNLESS --- you're a relative or a special crony...

Ukraine? Yugoslavia?

Who were/are the charismatic leadership of those autonomy battles? How do you think they turned out? Compared to the harsh but effective leadership that held those areas together PRIOR to any hint of insurrection...

 

[Roudy]

Even the Jews can't deny that Jerusalem was not Jewish, it was a Canaanite city, and was originally called Jebus. Their bible says as much. The Books of Kings state that Jerusalem was known as Jebus prior to this event.

So this is much ado about nothing.

Predictably, you all fall back to the annihilation of the Jebusites to try and discredit the idea that Jerusalem actually belongs to Israel.

When you conquer something, it becomes yours. That land is Jewish, and it always will be.

The land belonged to Christians far longer than it belonged to Jews, not mention centuries of non-Christian Roman ownership.

No, the land will revert to the local people soon enough. Demographics will see to that. Christian rule of Palestine through the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted 192 years. Jewish rule will not last half of that.


Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories
Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Significance of Jerusalem: A Muslim Perspective</b>

Well, citing a Muslim perspective on the topic just destroyed your credibility on the subject, not to mention your math is terrible, seeing as how Jews comprise 75% of the Israeli population.

Google

Your argument relies on the misconception that all Jews were forced into diaspora when Rome came and blew the house down. That's not how it was. Jews still remained in the land after the fact. They didn't suddenly disappear and then reappear 1,800 years later demanding their land back, it was always theirs to begin with, and has been for 3700 years, this means their claim predates Christianity by about a millennium or so.
.

Well, just saying that my credibility is lost, sounds like the "lady doth protest too much". Besides, it was the Christian perspective I was citing.

By the way your reading comprehension is a bit suspect. Non-Jews are the majority in the land Israel's Jews have control over. As the "Forward" article I linked confirms.

"....it turns out that Jews are now (as of Rosh Hashanah) outnumbered by Arabs under Israeli sovereignty by a grand total of 50,827. So the question is no longer whether or when the Jewish state will feature a minority ruling a majority. The question now is what to do about it...."

Read more: Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories - Opinion

You see, we have had the opportunity to debunk nearly all of the propaganda you Zionists have tried to force feed the American public on.

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine prior to the Zionist invasion.

Beyond citing partisan Zionist sources such as the Jewish Virtual Library, which states:

"The Romans then destroyedJerusalem, annexed Judaea as a Roman province, and systematically drove the Jews from Palestine. After 73 AD, Hebrew history would only be the history of the Diaspora as the Jews and their world view spread over Africa, Asia, and Europe."

The Diaspora | Jewish Virtual Library

This is confirmed by official governmental (contemporaneous) reports available in the UN archives, such as the first report of the Mandatory issued in 1921 which states that prior to the Zionist invasion there were just a handful of Jews in Palestine.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. -

See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

Actually in 1850 Jerusalem had majority Jewish population, Achmed.

 

[Roudy]

No such thing as a Palestinian nation, people, rulers, culture, art, etc. in history.

 

[montelatici]

Even the Jews can't deny that Jerusalem was not Jewish, it was a Canaanite city, and was originally called Jebus. Their bible says as much. The Books of Kings state that Jerusalem was known as Jebus prior to this event.

So this is much ado about nothing.

Predictably, you all fall back to the annihilation of the Jebusites to try and discredit the idea that Jerusalem actually belongs to Israel.

When you conquer something, it becomes yours. That land is Jewish, and it always will be.

The land belonged to Christians far longer than it belonged to Jews, not mention centuries of non-Christian Roman ownership.

No, the land will revert to the local people soon enough. Demographics will see to that. Christian rule of Palestine through the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted 192 years. Jewish rule will not last half of that.


Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories
Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Significance of Jerusalem: A Muslim Perspective</b>

Well, citing a Muslim perspective on the topic just destroyed your credibility on the subject, not to mention your math is terrible, seeing as how Jews comprise 75% of the Israeli population.

Google

Your argument relies on the misconception that all Jews were forced into diaspora when Rome came and blew the house down. That's not how it was. Jews still remained in the land after the fact. They didn't suddenly disappear and then reappear 1,800 years later demanding their land back, it was always theirs to begin with, and has been for 3700 years, this means their claim predates Christianity by about a millennium or so.
.

Well, just saying that my credibility is lost, sounds like the "lady doth protest too much". Besides, it was the Christian perspective I was citing.

By the way your reading comprehension is a bit suspect. Non-Jews are the majority in the land Israel's Jews have control over. As the "Forward" article I linked confirms.

"....it turns out that Jews are now (as of Rosh Hashanah) outnumbered by Arabs under Israeli sovereignty by a grand total of 50,827. So the question is no longer whether or when the Jewish state will feature a minority ruling a majority. The question now is what to do about it...."

Read more: Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories - Opinion

You see, we have had the opportunity to debunk nearly all of the propaganda you Zionists have tried to force feed the American public on.

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine prior to the Zionist invasion.

Beyond citing partisan Zionist sources such as the Jewish Virtual Library, which states:

"The Romans then destroyedJerusalem, annexed Judaea as a Roman province, and systematically drove the Jews from Palestine. After 73 AD, Hebrew history would only be the history of the Diaspora as the Jews and their world view spread over Africa, Asia, and Europe."

The Diaspora | Jewish Virtual Library

This is confirmed by official governmental (contemporaneous) reports available in the UN archives, such as the first report of the Mandatory issued in 1921 which states that prior to the Zionist invasion there were just a handful of Jews in Palestine.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. -

See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

Actually in 1850 Jerusalem had majority Jewish population, Achmed.

Actually it did not. But even if it did there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine.

The common propaganda bullet-point that "Jews outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem since 1850...is a known statistical fact," is false. Did you get that line from the "Freeman Center for Strategic Studies" or the aptly-named "Israel Hasbara Committee" or misinformation from encyclopedias written for children?

You should grab a calculator and do some simple math. The charts those "organizations" present alongside their own claims don't even match up - quite embarrassing, really.

Let's take a quick look:

According to the Mendon Association's 1824 census estimate, published in "The Christian Magazine," Jewish residents of Jerusalem numbered about 6,000, whereas Arabs (Muslims and Christians combined) numbered about 14,000.

Twenty years later in 1844 (note, this is after 1840), Jews numbered approximately 7,120 and Arabs numbered 8,390. These demographics are taken from Manashe Harrel's 1974 article "The Jewish Presence in Jerusalem through the Ages," which are cited repeatedly on Zionist websites.

According to a 1980 population study by Yigal Shiloh, it was found that in 1850 (ten years after 1840) the city of Jerusalem contained a total of 2,393 people, 1,763 of whom were Arab (1,025 Muslims and 738 Christians) and 630 of whom were Jewish. In the countryside surrounding Jerusalem of 116 towns and villages (and part of the greater Jerusalem district) lived 7,320 Arabs, 6,118 of whom were Muslim and 1,202 were Christian. No Jewish residents were reported.

Twenty-five years later (and almost three decades after 1840), according to a 1870 travel guide, the populations of Jews and Arabs were about even at around 9,000 each.

Seven years after that, in 1876 (36 years after 1840), according to Harrel, the Jewish population was about 12,000 in contrast to an Arab population of just over 13,000.

The Ottoman census of 1878 found that the total population of the Jerusalem, Nablus, and Acre districts was 472,455. Only 5.3% of the residents were Jewish (15,000 native-born Jews and about 10,000 foreign-born Jewish immigrants), as opposed to 94.7% of the residents who were Muslim and Christian Arabs (403,795 Muslims and 43,659 Christians).

Harrel then reports that in 1896, after years of massive Jewish immigration from Europe, 28,112 Jews lived in Jerusalem, along with 17,308 Arabs (8,560 Muslims and 8,748 Christians). This marked the first time – backed up by available records and reliable estimates – that Jews actually outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem. And that was just Jerusalem because most of the invading Europeans settled in the city. They were still a tiny proportion of the population of Palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

Predictably, you all fall back to the annihilation of the Jebusites to try and discredit the idea that Jerusalem actually belongs to Israel.

When you conquer something, it becomes yours. That land is Jewish, and it always will be.

The land belonged to Christians far longer than it belonged to Jews, not mention centuries of non-Christian Roman ownership.

No, the land will revert to the local people soon enough. Demographics will see to that. Christian rule of Palestine through the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted 192 years. Jewish rule will not last half of that.


Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories
Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Significance of Jerusalem: A Muslim Perspective</b>

Well, citing a Muslim perspective on the topic just destroyed your credibility on the subject, not to mention your math is terrible, seeing as how Jews comprise 75% of the Israeli population.

Google

Your argument relies on the misconception that all Jews were forced into diaspora when Rome came and blew the house down. That's not how it was. Jews still remained in the land after the fact. They didn't suddenly disappear and then reappear 1,800 years later demanding their land back, it was always theirs to begin with, and has been for 3700 years, this means their claim predates Christianity by about a millennium or so.
.

Well, just saying that my credibility is lost, sounds like the "lady doth protest too much". Besides, it was the Christian perspective I was citing.

By the way your reading comprehension is a bit suspect. Non-Jews are the majority in the land Israel's Jews have control over. As the "Forward" article I linked confirms.

"....it turns out that Jews are now (as of Rosh Hashanah) outnumbered by Arabs under Israeli sovereignty by a grand total of 50,827. So the question is no longer whether or when the Jewish state will feature a minority ruling a majority. The question now is what to do about it...."

Read more: Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories - Opinion

You see, we have had the opportunity to debunk nearly all of the propaganda you Zionists have tried to force feed the American public on.

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine prior to the Zionist invasion.

Beyond citing partisan Zionist sources such as the Jewish Virtual Library, which states:

"The Romans then destroyedJerusalem, annexed Judaea as a Roman province, and systematically drove the Jews from Palestine. After 73 AD, Hebrew history would only be the history of the Diaspora as the Jews and their world view spread over Africa, Asia, and Europe."

The Diaspora | Jewish Virtual Library

This is confirmed by official governmental (contemporaneous) reports available in the UN archives, such as the first report of the Mandatory issued in 1921 which states that prior to the Zionist invasion there were just a handful of Jews in Palestine.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. -

See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

Actually in 1850 Jerusalem had majority Jewish population, Achmed.

Actually it did not. But even if it did there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine.

The common propaganda bullet-point that "Jews outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem since 1850...is a known statistical fact," is false. Did you get that line from the "Freeman Center for Strategic Studies" or the aptly-named "Israel Hasbara Committee" or misinformation from encyclopedias written for children?

You should grab a calculator and do some simple math. The charts those "organizations" present alongside their own claims don't even match up - quite embarrassing, really.

Let's take a quick look:

According to the Mendon Association's 1824 census estimate, published in "The Christian Magazine," Jewish residents of Jerusalem numbered about 6,000, whereas Arabs (Muslims and Christians combined) numbered about 14,000.

Twenty years later in 1844 (note, this is after 1840), Jews numbered approximately 7,120 and Arabs numbered 8,390. These demographics are taken from Manashe Harrel's 1974 article "The Jewish Presence in Jerusalem through the Ages," which are cited repeatedly on Zionist websites.

According to a 1980 population study by Yigal Shiloh, it was found that in 1850 (ten years after 1840) the city of Jerusalem contained a total of 2,393 people, 1,763 of whom were Arab (1,025 Muslims and 738 Christians) and 630 of whom were Jewish. In the countryside surrounding Jerusalem of 116 towns and villages (and part of the greater Jerusalem district) lived 7,320 Arabs, 6,118 of whom were Muslim and 1,202 were Christian. No Jewish residents were reported.

Twenty-five years later (and almost three decades after 1840), according to a 1870 travel guide, the populations of Jews and Arabs were about even at around 9,000 each.

Seven years after that, in 1876 (36 years after 1840), according to Harrel, the Jewish population was about 12,000 in contrast to an Arab population of just over 13,000.

The Ottoman census of 1878 found that the total population of the Jerusalem, Nablus, and Acre districts was 472,455. Only 5.3% of the residents were Jewish (15,000 native-born Jews and about 10,000 foreign-born Jewish immigrants), as opposed to 94.7% of the residents who were Muslim and Christian Arabs (403,795 Muslims and 43,659 Christians).

Harrel then reports that in 1896, after years of massive Jewish immigration from Europe, 28,112 Jews lived in Jerusalem, along with 17,308 Arabs (8,560 Muslims and 8,748 Christians). This marked the first time – backed up by available records and reliable estimates – that Jews actually outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem. And that was just Jerusalem because most of the invading Europeans settled in the city. They were still a tiny proportion of the population of Palestine.

No it came from the R.C. church



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291
"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

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Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm



So as we can see in 1948 Jerusalem had 99,320 Jews as opposed to 36,680 muslims and 31,300 Christians. This athe sanjak of Jerusalem and not the city so took in the inhabitants of all of Jordan and Israel from Bersheba to Tiberias

 

[Roudy]

Predictably, you all fall back to the annihilation of the Jebusites to try and discredit the idea that Jerusalem actually belongs to Israel.

When you conquer something, it becomes yours. That land is Jewish, and it always will be.

The land belonged to Christians far longer than it belonged to Jews, not mention centuries of non-Christian Roman ownership.

No, the land will revert to the local people soon enough. Demographics will see to that. Christian rule of Palestine through the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted 192 years. Jewish rule will not last half of that.


Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories
Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Significance of Jerusalem: A Muslim Perspective</b>

Well, citing a Muslim perspective on the topic just destroyed your credibility on the subject, not to mention your math is terrible, seeing as how Jews comprise 75% of the Israeli population.

Google

Your argument relies on the misconception that all Jews were forced into diaspora when Rome came and blew the house down. That's not how it was. Jews still remained in the land after the fact. They didn't suddenly disappear and then reappear 1,800 years later demanding their land back, it was always theirs to begin with, and has been for 3700 years, this means their claim predates Christianity by about a millennium or so.
.

Well, just saying that my credibility is lost, sounds like the "lady doth protest too much". Besides, it was the Christian perspective I was citing.

By the way your reading comprehension is a bit suspect. Non-Jews are the majority in the land Israel's Jews have control over. As the "Forward" article I linked confirms.

"....it turns out that Jews are now (as of Rosh Hashanah) outnumbered by Arabs under Israeli sovereignty by a grand total of 50,827. So the question is no longer whether or when the Jewish state will feature a minority ruling a majority. The question now is what to do about it...."

Read more: Jews Now Minority in Israel and Territories - Opinion

You see, we have had the opportunity to debunk nearly all of the propaganda you Zionists have tried to force feed the American public on.

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine prior to the Zionist invasion.

Beyond citing partisan Zionist sources such as the Jewish Virtual Library, which states:

"The Romans then destroyedJerusalem, annexed Judaea as a Roman province, and systematically drove the Jews from Palestine. After 73 AD, Hebrew history would only be the history of the Diaspora as the Jews and their world view spread over Africa, Asia, and Europe."

The Diaspora | Jewish Virtual Library

This is confirmed by official governmental (contemporaneous) reports available in the UN archives, such as the first report of the Mandatory issued in 1921 which states that prior to the Zionist invasion there were just a handful of Jews in Palestine.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. -

See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

Actually in 1850 Jerusalem had majority Jewish population, Achmed.

Actually it did not. But even if it did there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine.

The common propaganda bullet-point that "Jews outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem since 1850...is a known statistical fact," is false. Did you get that line from the "Freeman Center for Strategic Studies" or the aptly-named "Israel Hasbara Committee" or misinformation from encyclopedias written for children?

You should grab a calculator and do some simple math. The charts those "organizations" present alongside their own claims don't even match up - quite embarrassing, really.

Let's take a quick look:

According to the Mendon Association's 1824 census estimate, published in "The Christian Magazine," Jewish residents of Jerusalem numbered about 6,000, whereas Arabs (Muslims and Christians combined) numbered about 14,000.

Twenty years later in 1844 (note, this is after 1840), Jews numbered approximately 7,120 and Arabs numbered 8,390. These demographics are taken from Manashe Harrel's 1974 article "The Jewish Presence in Jerusalem through the Ages," which are cited repeatedly on Zionist websites.

According to a 1980 population study by Yigal Shiloh, it was found that in 1850 (ten years after 1840) the city of Jerusalem contained a total of 2,393 people, 1,763 of whom were Arab (1,025 Muslims and 738 Christians) and 630 of whom were Jewish. In the countryside surrounding Jerusalem of 116 towns and villages (and part of the greater Jerusalem district) lived 7,320 Arabs, 6,118 of whom were Muslim and 1,202 were Christian. No Jewish residents were reported.

Twenty-five years later (and almost three decades after 1840), according to a 1870 travel guide, the populations of Jews and Arabs were about even at around 9,000 each.

Seven years after that, in 1876 (36 years after 1840), according to Harrel, the Jewish population was about 12,000 in contrast to an Arab population of just over 13,000.

The Ottoman census of 1878 found that the total population of the Jerusalem, Nablus, and Acre districts was 472,455. Only 5.3% of the residents were Jewish (15,000 native-born Jews and about 10,000 foreign-born Jewish immigrants), as opposed to 94.7% of the residents who were Muslim and Christian Arabs (403,795 Muslims and 43,659 Christians).

Harrel then reports that in 1896, after years of massive Jewish immigration from Europe, 28,112 Jews lived in Jerusalem, along with 17,308 Arabs (8,560 Muslims and 8,748 Christians). This marked the first time – backed up by available records and reliable estimates – that Jews actually outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem. And that was just Jerusalem because most of the invading Europeans settled in the city. They were still a tiny proportion of the population of Palestine.

Damn, you keep posting the same disproven bullshit propaganda, you truly have nothing but lies.

Despite the many invasions and programs, the Jews always maintained a presence and always kept coming back to their religious, spiritual, and cultural holy land. The land truly belongs to the Jews:


History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Byzantine period (324–638)

Jews probably constituted the majority of the population of Palestine until the 4th-century, when Constantine converted to Christianity.

Jews lived in at least forty-three Jewish communities in Palestine: twelve towns on the coast, in the Negev, and east of the Jordan, and thirty-one villages in Galilee and in the Jordan valley. The persecuted Jews of Palestine revolted twice against their Christian rulers. In the 5th century, the Western Roman Empire collapsed leading to Christian migration into Palestine and development of a Christian majority. Jews numbered 10–15% of the population. Judaism was the only non-Christian religion tolerated, but there were bans on Jews building new places of worship, holding public office or owning slaves. There were also two Samaritan revolts in this period.[65]

In 438, The Empress Eudocia removed the ban on Jews' praying at the Temple site and the heads of the Community in Galilee issued a call "to the great and mighty people of the Jews": "Know that the end of the exile of our people has come"!

In about 450, the Jerusalem Talmud was completed.

According to Procopius, in 533 Byzantine general Belisarius took the treasures of the Jewish temple from Vandals who had taken them from Rome.

In 611, Sassanid Persia invaded the Byzantine Empire. In 613, a Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Empire joined forces with these Persian invaders to capture Jerusalem in 614. The Jews gained autonomy in Jerusalem, until in 617 when the Persians betrayed agreements and withdrew their forces from the region. With return of the Byzantines in 628, the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius promised to restore Jewish rights and received Jewish help in ousting the Persians with the aid of Jewish leader Benjamin of Tiberias.

Middle Ages (636–1517)

After the conquest, Jewish communities began to grow and flourish. Umar allowed and encouraged Jews to settle in Jerusalem. It was first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Christian rule, that Jews were allowed to enter and worship freely in their holy city.

In the mid-8th-century, taking advantage of the warring Islamic factions in Palestine, a false messiah named Abu Isa Obadiah of Isfahan inspired and organised a group of 10,000 armed Jews who hoped to restore the Holy Land to the Jewish nation.

In 1039, part of the synagogue in Ramla was still in ruins, probably resulting from the earthquake of 1033. Jews also returned to Rafah and documents from 1015 and 1080 attest to a significant community there.

A large Jewish community existed in Ramle and smaller communities inhabited Hebron and the coastal cities of Acre, Caesarea, Jaffa, Ashkelon and Gaza.[citation needed]Al-Muqaddasi (985) wrote that "for the most part the assayers of corn, dyers, bankers, and tanners are Jews." Under the Islamic rule, the rights of Jews and Christians were curtailed and residence was permitted upon payment of the special tax.

Between the 7th and 11th centuries, Masoretes (Jewish scribes) in the Galilee and Jerusalem were active in compiling a system of pronunciation and grammatical guides of the Hebrew language. They authorised the division of the Jewish Tanakh, known as the Masoretic Text, which is regarded as authoritative till today.

Ottoman rule (1517–1917)

The 16th-century nevertheless saw a resurgence of Jewish life in Palestine. Palestinian rabbis were instrumental producing a universally accepted manual of Jewish law and some of the most beautiful liturgical poems. Much of this activity occurred at Safed which had become a spiritual centre, a haven for mystics. Joseph Karo's comprehensive guide to Jewish law, the Shulchan Aruch, was considered so authoritative that the variant customs of German-Polish Jewry were merely added as supplement glosses. Some of the most celebrated hymns were written at in Safed by poets such as Israel Najara andSolomon Alkabetz. The town was also a centre of Jewish mysticism, notable kabbalists included Moses Cordovero and the German-born Naphtali Hertz ben Jacob Elhanan. A new method of understanding the kabbalah was developed by Palestinian mystic Isaac Luria, and espoused by his student Chaim Vital. In Safed, the Jews developed a number of branches of trade, especially in grain, spices, textiles and dyeing. In 1577, a Hebrewprinting press was established in Safed. The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.

Old Yishuv
Jewish life in the Land of Israel

Key event

• Aliya of Nachmanides (1267)
• Hebron and Safed massacres (1517)
• Revival of Tiberias (1563)
• Sack of Tiberias (1660)
• Hebron massacre (1834)
• Safed attack (1838)
• Jerusalem expansion
• Petach Tikva founded (1878)

Key figures

• Ishtori Haparchi (d. 1313)
• Joseph Saragossi (d. 1507)
• Obadiah MiBartenura (d. 1515)
• Levi ibn Habib (d. 1545)
• Jacob Berab (d. 1546)
• Joseph Nasi (d. 1579)
• Moses Galante (d. 1689)
• Moses ibn Habib (d. 1696)
• Yehuda he-Hasid (d. 1700)
• Haim Abulafia (d. 1744)
• Menachem Mendel (d. 1788)
• Haim Farhi (d. 1820)
• Jacob Saphir (d. 1886)
• Haim Aharon Valero (d. 1923)

• Ramban (1267)

• Abraham Avinu (1540)

• Johanan ben Zakai (1600s)

In around 1563, Joseph Nasi secured permission from Sultan Selim II to acquire Tiberias and seven surrounding villages to create a Jewish city-state. He hoped that large numbers of Jewish refugees and Marranos would settle there, free from fear and oppression; indeed, the persecuted Jews of Cori, Italy, numbering about 200 souls, decided to emigrate to Tiberias.Nasi had the walls of the town rebuilt by 1564 and attempted to turn it into a self-sufficient textile manufacturing center by planting mulberry trees for the cultivation of silk. Nevertheless, a number of factors during the following years contributed to the plan's ultimate failure. Nasi's aunt, Doña Gracia Mendes Nasi supported ayeshiva in the town for many years until her death in 1569.

In 1567, a Yemenite scholar and Rabbi, Zechariah Dhahiri, visited Safed and wrote of his experiences in a book entitled Sefer Ha-Musar. His vivid descriptions of the town Safed and of Rabbi Joseph Karo’s yeshiva are of primary importance to historians, seeing that they are a first-hand account of these places, and the only extant account which describes the yeshiva of the great Sephardic Rabbi, Joseph Karo.[127]

In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year.[128] The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income.[129] In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified khan to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."[128]

In 1569, the Radbaz moved to Jerusalem, but soon moved to Safed to escape the high taxes imposed on Jews by the authorities.

In 1610, the Yochanan ben Zakai Synagogue in Jerusalem was completed.[130] It became the main synagogue of the Sephardic Jews, the place where their chief rabbi was invested. The adjacent study hall which had been added by 1625 later became the Synagogue of Elijah the Prophet.[130]

Installation of the Chacham Bashi at the Ben Zakai Synagogue, 1893. According to legend, the synagogue stands on the site of the study hall of 1st-century sage, RabbanYochanan ben Zakai. The current building was constructed in 1610.



The Near East earthquake of 1759 destroys much of Safed killing 2000 people with 190 Jews among the dead, and also destroys Tiberias.

The disciples of the Vilna Gaon settled in the land of Israel almost a decade after the arrival of two of his pupils, R. Hayim of Vilna and R. Israel ben Samuel of Shklov. In all there were three groups of the Gaon's students which emigrated to the land of Israel. They formed the basis of the Ashkenazi communities of Jerusalem and Safed, setting up what was known as the Kollel Perushim. Their arrival encouraged an Ashkenazi revival in Jerusalem, whose Jewish community until this time was mostly Sephardi. Many of the descendants of the disciples became leading figures in modern Israeli society. The Gaon himself also set forth with his pupils to the Land, but for an unknown reason he turned back and returned to Vilna where he died soon after.

During the Peasants' Revolt under Muhammad Ali of Egypt's occupation, Jews were targeted in the 1834 looting of Safed and the 1834 Hebron massacre. By 1844,some sources report that Jews had become the largest population group in Jerusalem and by 1890 an absolute majority in the city.