CDZ Difference between Democratic Socialism and Communism

[dblack]

What would be an example of totalitarianism within a democracy?

A government that runs everything. Democratically.

I see you're not to be taken seriously.

Then don't. But I'll try not to return the insult.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's the worship of democracy that I find most unnerving about Democratic Socialists. They seem to think that if a government is democratic that it can't be totalitarian, that it can do no wrong, and that's just not true.

And you suffer from the belief that every aspect of our government is out to get you and do you great harm.

No, really don't.

I truly feel sorry for you, but that doesn't stop me from laughing at the crazy shit you come up with.

Your sympathy is appreciated, but not necessary.

I just don't think making socialism more democratic really improves it much.

I'm impressed. You didn't throw communist into the mix this time.

 

[dblack]

It's the worship of democracy that I find most unnerving about Democratic Socialists. They seem to think that if a government is democratic that it can't be totalitarian, that it can do no wrong, and that's just not true.

And you suffer from the belief that every aspect of our government is out to get you and do you great harm.

No, really don't.

I truly feel sorry for you, but that doesn't stop me from laughing at the crazy shit you come up with.

Your sympathy is appreciated, but not necessary.

I just don't think making socialism more democratic really improves it much.

I'm impressed. You didn't throw communist into the mix this time.

Why does that impress you? Do you want to discuss the topic?

 

[Donald H]

Isn't 'socialism' more democratic by definition? If not then what are you thinking of, again?

More democratic that what? The premise of the thread seems to be that Democratic Socialism is different from Communism in that it is more democratic. I'm not much of a fan of democracy, so that's not really an improvement in my view. My issue with socialism is that the government simply has too much power.

You can try to redeem yourself with me but I generally don't offer two chances when it's apparent that I'm just dealing with a spammer.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's the worship of democracy that I find most unnerving about Democratic Socialists. They seem to think that if a government is democratic that it can't be totalitarian, that it can do no wrong, and that's just not true.

And you suffer from the belief that every aspect of our government is out to get you and do you great harm.

No, really don't.

I truly feel sorry for you, but that doesn't stop me from laughing at the crazy shit you come up with.

Your sympathy is appreciated, but not necessary.

I just don't think making socialism more democratic really improves it much.

I'm impressed. You didn't throw communist into the mix this time.

Why does that impress you? Do you want to discuss the topic?

It impresses me because so many right wingers here insist on using communist and socialist interchangeably. Many of you argue that they are the same thing. The topic here is the differences between the two. First, we have to agree that there is a difference before we can discuss what the differences might be. What say you?

 

[dblack]

The topic here is the differences between the two. First, we have to agree that there is a difference before we can discuss what the differences might be. What say you?

I've been discussing the differences. Try reading my posts rather than trolling.

 

[dblack]

From What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA):

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I want neither the economy, nor society to be "run", democratically or otherwise. I want a free market and a free society.

 

[BULLDOG]

The topic here is the differences between the two. First, we have to agree that there is a difference before we can discuss what the differences might be. What say you?

I've been discussing the differences. Try reading my posts rather than trolling.

well, no. All you've said so far is that you don't like democracy in pretty much any form. You've added nothing as to the differences between socialism and communism.

 

[BULLDOG]

From What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA):

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I want neither the economy, nor society to be "run", democratically or otherwise. I want a free market and a free society.

The free market has spoken. They wanted Joe Biden as president, and now they are opposing the new laws in Georgia. That should make you happy.

 

[dblack]

From What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA):

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I want neither the economy, nor society to be "run", democratically or otherwise. I want a free market and a free society.

The free market has spoken. They wanted Joe Biden as president, and now they are opposing the new laws in Georgia. That should make you happy.

This is the CDZ. If you're just looking to pick a fight, I'm participating in other threads. You can insult me there. Thanks.

 

[BULLDOG]

From What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA):

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I want neither the economy, nor society to be "run", democratically or otherwise. I want a free market and a free society.

The free market has spoken. They wanted Joe Biden as president, and now they are opposing the new laws in Georgia. That should make you happy.

This is the CDZ. If you're just looking to pick a fight, I'm participating in other threads. You can insult me there. Thanks.

I'm responding to your remarks in a fair and reasonable way. Why do you think I'm looking for a fight? I assure you I'm not angry.

 

[dblack]

From What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA):

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I want neither the economy, nor society to be "run", democratically or otherwise. I want a free market and a free society.

The free market has spoken. They wanted Joe Biden as president, and now they are opposing the new laws in Georgia. That should make you happy.

This is the CDZ. If you're just looking to pick a fight, I'm participating in other threads. You can insult me there. Thanks.

I'm responding to your remarks in a fair and reasonable way. Why do you think I'm looking for a fight? I assure you I'm not angry.

I think that you're looking for a fight because your response:

"The free market has spoken. They wanted Joe Biden as president, and now they are opposing the new laws in Georgia. That should make you happy."

was obviously an attempt at a taunt, a "dig" because you presume I'm a Trumpster. But I'm not, and I actually am quite happy that Trump was voted out. And the free market shunning of Trumpsterism is a prime example of how society can moderate itself.

Now, can we discuss the topic instead of making it personal?

 

[Donald H]

I'm responding to your remarks in a fair and reasonable way. Why do you think I'm looking for a fight? I assure you I'm not angry.

Making it out to look like 'you're' the one trying to pick a fight, is the same old familiar tactics used by Trump's gang when they get cornered.
Don't try to poke em out with a stick. They will be right up the stick attacking up close and 'personal'!

 

[RASTAMEN]

Recently, another thread I started got sidetracked over an argument as to whether Democratic Socialism and Communism amounted to the same thing. So, thought I'd make this thread to discuss the difference, in case anyone is still interested. The following is an excerpt from an article at time.com:

**
How is democratic socialism different from socialism and communism in the former Soviet Union and other countries abroad?
The simple answer is that democratic socialists believe in a democracy, while communist forms of government are not democracies.

“Democratic socialists believe in elections, the First Amendment — [they] want ordinary people to have more power in a more democratic system,” Kazin says. “In communist countries, the state controls everything and a small group of people control the state, a tyrannical system.”

Confusion is understandable, however, because the USSR did stand for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. But for context, here’s how Kazin explains when the distinction started to be made between socialism and communism: “All communists call themselves socialists because they want it on the way to pure communism.” But, he explains, the Bolshevik revolution in Russia in 1917 caused a split between those who identified primarily as communist and those who identified as socialist. In 1919, the Bolsheviks formed the Comintern (Communist International), an international organization of communist parties and groups. Those who wanted to follow in Russia’s footsteps joined, essentially declaring themselves communist, while others decided to stick with socialism.
**

Source:

What to Know About the History of Democratic Socialism in America

And how it differs from socialism and communism in other places around the world

time.com

It is STILL Oligarchal Collectivism. Keynes was an Economic know nothing. So was FDR.

I don't really know anything about Keynes (name sounds familiar though), but I really liked FDR's New Deal. Anyway, bottom line is I'm a pretty big fan of Bernie Sanders, AOC and others like them. They define themselves as Democratic Socialists, and it fits with what I quoted in the Wikipedia article. That is, it's a democratic system, not an oligarchical one.

 

[HenryBHough]

If one assumes there exists such a thing as "Democratic Socialism" it implies that not only can a populus vote itself into that form of socialism - it also may vote itself out. History has proven the latter part impossible - it IS possible to exit though that inevitably involves firearms in the hands of the people.

 

[daveman]

Difference between Democratic Socialism and Communism

 

[Pellinore]

The OP is generally correct. Socialism should not be a bad word—we have it in our system and use it every day. It and capitalism are economic systems that government use.
- Socialism: All of the products each industry makes are thrown in one big pot, then handed out to whoever needs them.
- Capitalism: I own my own company, can set my own price on my product, and get to keep the profits.
- No society uses all one or all the other; we have mostly private ownership but do have socialist industries as well, such as the fire departments.
- The best dividing-line industry I've seen is health care. Ours is capitalistic, in democratic-socialist nations such as Sweden it is socialistic.

The difference between democratic socialism and communism is who decides how to hand out the products.
- Democratic socialism is socialism used by a democratic state. The people who decide are voted in, and they decide based on democratic ideals.
- Communism is socialism used by a dictatorship. Someone takes over, and they decide who gets what, inevitably granting themselves more. It doesn't work.

The thing that sucks about communism is the dictatorship. That's why fascism sucks just as badly; it's also a dictatorship.
- As long as we retain our democratic ideals, we're not in danger of becoming communist.
- But that's a big "as long as."

 

[Senter]

"Democratic Socialism" is a version of capitalism. What's wrong with people? D.S. allows private ownership of businesses, employees, and private profit. It is just a "softened" version that works to buy off people a bit longer so capitalism can exploit them for a while longer. But as such it is far more beneficial for PEOPLE than what we have. Denmark and most of the Nordic countries are Democratic Socialist countries. And they score at the top of the Happiness Index and the Satisfaction With Life Index while the US is falling lower and lower each year.

 

[daveman]

"Democratic Socialism" is a version of capitalism. What's wrong with people? D.S. allows private ownership of businesses, employees, and private profit. It is just a "softened" version that works to buy off people a bit longer so capitalism can exploit them for a while longer. But as such it is far more beneficial for PEOPLE than what we have. Denmark and most of the Nordic countries are Democratic Socialist countries. And they score at the top of the Happiness Index and the Satisfaction With Life Index while the US is falling lower and lower each year.

Denmark Tells Bernie Sanders It's Had Enough Of His 'Socialist' Slurs​

 

[Senter]

Denmark Tells Bernie Sanders It's Had Enough Of His 'Socialist' Slurs​

Yup.

(???)