Did you Support War in Iraq??

[NotfooledbyW]

Cool. So what? They too were oppressed by Saddam and his bloody regime of terror

You are a liar.

 

[struth]

Cool. So what? They too were oppressed by Saddam and his bloody regime of terror

You are a liar.

Hardly....I get you are going to defend your dead boss to the end...but Saddam had one of the worst regimes ever

Human rights in Ba'athist Iraq - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Iraq's era under President Saddam Hussein was notorious for its severe violations of human rights, which were perceived to be among the worst in the world. Secret police, state terrorism, torture, mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, deportations, extrajudicial killings, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical warfare, and the destruction of southern Iraq's marshes were some of the methods Saddam and the country's Ba'athist government used to maintain control. The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period is unknown, but estimated to be around 250,000 according to Human Rights Watch,[1] with the great majority of those occurring as a result of the 1988 Anfal genocide and the suppression of the 1991 uprisings in Iraq. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture."

Human rights organizations have documented government-approved executions, acts of torture and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.

• In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law" and called on Iraq to cease "summary and arbitrary executions ... the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances".[2]
• Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Ba'ath Party, which constituted only 8% of the population.
• Iraqi citizens were not legally allowed to assemble unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulated their internal affairs and monitored their activities.
• Police checkpoints on Iraq's roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling across country without government permission and expensive exit visas prevented Iraqi citizens from traveling abroad. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi females could not travel outside of the country without the escort of a male relative.[3]
• The Persecution of Feyli Kurds under Saddam Hussein,[4] also known as the Feyli Kurdish genocide, was a systematic persecution of Feylis by Saddam Hussein between 1970 and 2003. The persecution campaigns led to the expulsion, flight and effective exile of the Feyli Kurds from their ancestral lands in Iraq. The persecution began when a large number of Feyli Kurds were exposed to a big campaign by the regime that began by the dissolved RCCR issuance for 666 decision, which deprived Feyli Kurds of Iraqi nationality and considered them as Iranians. The systematic executions started in Baghdad and Khanaqin in 1979 and later spread to other Iraqi and Kurdish areas.[5][6] It is estimated that around 25,000 Feyli Kurds died due to captivity and torture.[7][8][clarification needed]
• Halabja poison gas attack:The Halabja poison gas attack occurred in the period 15–19 March 1988 during the Iran–Iraq War when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces and thousands of civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja were killed.[9]
• Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms and power stations.[9][10]
• In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed full-scale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before.[11]
• In June 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion, some of which are part of Islamic Sharia law, while government members and Saddam's family members were immune from punishments ranging around these crimes.[12]
• In 2001, the Iraqi government amended the Constitution to make sodomy a capital offense.
• On March 23, 2003, during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
• Also in April 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN's chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, "other news organizations were in the same bind."[13]
• After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total and more are being uncovered to this day.[14] While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
• Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other authoritarian nations.

"In January 2004, Human Rights Watch stated: "Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting [Saddam's] atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba'th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more."[1] A January 2003 The New York Times article by John Fisher Burns similarly states that "the number of those 'disappeared' into the hands of the secret police, never to be heard from again, could be 200,000" and compared Saddam to Joseph Stalin, while acknowledging that "Even on a proportional basis, [Stalin's] crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's."[23] The 1988 Al-Anfal campaign resulted in the death of 50,000-100,000 Kurds (although Kurdish sources have cited a higher figure of 182,000), while 25,000-100,000 civilians and rebels were killed during the suppression of the 1991 uprisings.[11][24] In addition, 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison were reportedly executed in a particularly large 1984 purge.[25] Far fewer Iraqis are known to have been executed during other years of Saddam's rule. For example, "Amnesty International reported that in 1981 over 350 people were officially executed in Iraq ... the Committee Against Repression in Iraq gives biographic particulars on 798 executions (along with 264 killings of unknown persons, and 428 biographies of unsentenced detainees and disappeared persons)." Kanan Makiya cautions that a focus on the death toll obscures the full extent of "the terror inside Iraq," which was largely the product of the pervasive secret police and systematic use of torture.[22]"

 

[surada]

Your insistence that the mistaken belief that Saddam had wmds, could only have been a purposeful LIE, is what I was referring to.

FRONT END GUESS.

I say and have been saying throughout my ongoing discussions on Iraq for 18 years that the universal belief that Saddam had wmds in place was never a lie. He didn’t allow it to be proven otherwise until DECEMBER 2002 at which time inspections were resumed under 1441 with full agreement and support by the Bush Administration and immediate coooeration on process by Iraq.

So why enter the discussion now on your misunderstanding of what I’m saying?

I’m here primarily defending Joe Biden from the partisan attack by struth.

I had not researched as much as I would have liked on Joe’s participation in the run up to the invasion of Iraq but I am quite pleased that struth has led me to this from the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, FEBRUARY 2003 on Iraq in which Biden uttered these very significant and thoughtful words that could have prevented the entire fiasco and disaster the invasion of Iraq was had Bush listened.

Senator Joe Biden *3: I am going to front-end guess it. I come down on the side of suggesting that another several months is not something that in any way appreciably increases any risk.​

​

Do you find it amazing as I do that “sleepy Joe” back then, being without “the benefit of hindsight”, to possess such clarity of vision to be able to evaluate the risks of allowing the threat to continue under the watchful eyes of the entire world and let inspectors work with the dictator to establish the rock solid EVIDENCE that would justify removing SH by force if needed to be done. A few more months - avoids war - Joe said.

​

As to your accusation that I lied.​

​

struth posted this:​

​

Biden said: "The primary policy is to keep sanctions in place. To deny Saddam the billions of dollars that would allow him to really crank up his program, which neither you or I believe he's ever going to abandon as long as he is in place.”​

​

Everyone from Dick Cheney to Mother Theresa probably would agree with Joe Biden o that. I did. So why did you accuse me of calling everyone who believed that a liar?

Biden and Cheney were right to believe that all the way until No WMD were found and admitted in 2004.

Its the lies that led to the violent means and methods decided upon to “find them” not. ..... that I will be happy to discuss with you here if you can find a way to be honest about it.

So far you have failed in that regard.

Perhaps you just made an unfortunate mistake.

nobody is listening to your propaganda

There were 50 Christian churches in Baghad before Bush's invasion.

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Baghdad - Wikipedia

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Baghdad - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Baghdad (Latin: Bagdathen(sis) Latinorum) is a Catholic diocese of the Roman/Latin Rite located in the city of Baghdad in Iraq. It has jurisdiction over three parishes of 2,500 Latin Church Catholics who live throughout Iraq. The diocese is immediately subject to the Holy See. It operates alongside seven Chaldean dioceses, three Syrian Catholic, one Greek-Melkite jurisdicti…

Cool. So what? They too were oppressed by Saddam and his bloody regime of terror

No they weren't. They were protected by SD.

 

[surada]

Cool. So what? They too were oppressed by Saddam and his bloody regime of terror

You are a liar.

Hardly....I get you are going to defend your dead boss to the end...but Saddam had one of the worst regimes ever

Human rights in Ba'athist Iraq - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Iraq's era under President Saddam Hussein was notorious for its severe violations of human rights, which were perceived to be among the worst in the world. Secret police, state terrorism, torture, mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, deportations, extrajudicial killings, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical warfare, and the destruction of southern Iraq's marshes were some of the methods Saddam and the country's Ba'athist government used to maintain control. The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period is unknown, but estimated to be around 250,000 according to Human Rights Watch,[1] with the great majority of those occurring as a result of the 1988 Anfal genocide and the suppression of the 1991 uprisings in Iraq. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture."

Human rights organizations have documented government-approved executions, acts of torture and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.

• In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law" and called on Iraq to cease "summary and arbitrary executions ... the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances".[2]
• Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Ba'ath Party, which constituted only 8% of the population.
• Iraqi citizens were not legally allowed to assemble unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulated their internal affairs and monitored their activities.
• Police checkpoints on Iraq's roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling across country without government permission and expensive exit visas prevented Iraqi citizens from traveling abroad. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi females could not travel outside of the country without the escort of a male relative.[3]
• The Persecution of Feyli Kurds under Saddam Hussein,[4] also known as the Feyli Kurdish genocide, was a systematic persecution of Feylis by Saddam Hussein between 1970 and 2003. The persecution campaigns led to the expulsion, flight and effective exile of the Feyli Kurds from their ancestral lands in Iraq. The persecution began when a large number of Feyli Kurds were exposed to a big campaign by the regime that began by the dissolved RCCR issuance for 666 decision, which deprived Feyli Kurds of Iraqi nationality and considered them as Iranians. The systematic executions started in Baghdad and Khanaqin in 1979 and later spread to other Iraqi and Kurdish areas.[5][6] It is estimated that around 25,000 Feyli Kurds died due to captivity and torture.[7][8][clarification needed]
• Halabja poison gas attack:The Halabja poison gas attack occurred in the period 15–19 March 1988 during the Iran–Iraq War when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces and thousands of civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja were killed.[9]
• Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms and power stations.[9][10]
• In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed full-scale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before.[11]
• In June 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion, some of which are part of Islamic Sharia law, while government members and Saddam's family members were immune from punishments ranging around these crimes.[12]
• In 2001, the Iraqi government amended the Constitution to make sodomy a capital offense.
• On March 23, 2003, during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
• Also in April 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN's chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, "other news organizations were in the same bind."[13]
• After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total and more are being uncovered to this day.[14] While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
• Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other authoritarian nations.

"In January 2004, Human Rights Watch stated: "Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting [Saddam's] atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba'th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more."[1] A January 2003 The New York Times article by John Fisher Burns similarly states that "the number of those 'disappeared' into the hands of the secret police, never to be heard from again, could be 200,000" and compared Saddam to Joseph Stalin, while acknowledging that "Even on a proportional basis, [Stalin's] crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's."[23] The 1988 Al-Anfal campaign resulted in the death of 50,000-100,000 Kurds (although Kurdish sources have cited a higher figure of 182,000), while 25,000-100,000 civilians and rebels were killed during the suppression of the 1991 uprisings.[11][24] In addition, 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison were reportedly executed in a particularly large 1984 purge.[25] Far fewer Iraqis are known to have been executed during other years of Saddam's rule. For example, "Amnesty International reported that in 1981 over 350 people were officially executed in Iraq ... the Committee Against Repression in Iraq gives biographic particulars on 798 executions (along with 264 killings of unknown persons, and 428 biographies of unsentenced detainees and disappeared persons)." Kanan Makiya cautions that a focus on the death toll obscures the full extent of "the terror inside Iraq," which was largely the product of the pervasive secret police and systematic use of torture.[22]"

Operation Mass Appeal promoted a one sided version of all wiki cites to sell the war.

 

[struth]

Your insistence that the mistaken belief that Saddam had wmds, could only have been a purposeful LIE, is what I was referring to.

FRONT END GUESS.

I say and have been saying throughout my ongoing discussions on Iraq for 18 years that the universal belief that Saddam had wmds in place was never a lie. He didn’t allow it to be proven otherwise until DECEMBER 2002 at which time inspections were resumed under 1441 with full agreement and support by the Bush Administration and immediate coooeration on process by Iraq.

So why enter the discussion now on your misunderstanding of what I’m saying?

I’m here primarily defending Joe Biden from the partisan attack by struth.

I had not researched as much as I would have liked on Joe’s participation in the run up to the invasion of Iraq but I am quite pleased that struth has led me to this from the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, FEBRUARY 2003 on Iraq in which Biden uttered these very significant and thoughtful words that could have prevented the entire fiasco and disaster the invasion of Iraq was had Bush listened.

Senator Joe Biden *3: I am going to front-end guess it. I come down on the side of suggesting that another several months is not something that in any way appreciably increases any risk.​

​

Do you find it amazing as I do that “sleepy Joe” back then, being without “the benefit of hindsight”, to possess such clarity of vision to be able to evaluate the risks of allowing the threat to continue under the watchful eyes of the entire world and let inspectors work with the dictator to establish the rock solid EVIDENCE that would justify removing SH by force if needed to be done. A few more months - avoids war - Joe said.

​

As to your accusation that I lied.​

​

struth posted this:​

​

Biden said: "The primary policy is to keep sanctions in place. To deny Saddam the billions of dollars that would allow him to really crank up his program, which neither you or I believe he's ever going to abandon as long as he is in place.”​

​

Everyone from Dick Cheney to Mother Theresa probably would agree with Joe Biden o that. I did. So why did you accuse me of calling everyone who believed that a liar?

Biden and Cheney were right to believe that all the way until No WMD were found and admitted in 2004.

Its the lies that led to the violent means and methods decided upon to “find them” not. ..... that I will be happy to discuss with you here if you can find a way to be honest about it.

So far you have failed in that regard.

Perhaps you just made an unfortunate mistake.

nobody is listening to your propaganda

There were 50 Christian churches in Baghad before Bush's invasion.

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Baghdad - Wikipedia

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Baghdad - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Baghdad (Latin: Bagdathen(sis) Latinorum) is a Catholic diocese of the Roman/Latin Rite located in the city of Baghdad in Iraq. It has jurisdiction over three parishes of 2,500 Latin Church Catholics who live throughout Iraq. The diocese is immediately subject to the Holy See. It operates alongside seven Chaldean dioceses, three Syrian Catholic, one Greek-Melkite jurisdicti…

Cool. So what? They too were oppressed by Saddam and his bloody regime of terror

No they weren't. They were protected by SD.

hahahahha nobody was protected...he killed Christians, Jews, Muslims.....he just killed

 

[struth]

Cool. So what? They too were oppressed by Saddam and his bloody regime of terror

You are a liar.

Hardly....I get you are going to defend your dead boss to the end...but Saddam had one of the worst regimes ever

Human rights in Ba'athist Iraq - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Iraq's era under President Saddam Hussein was notorious for its severe violations of human rights, which were perceived to be among the worst in the world. Secret police, state terrorism, torture, mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, deportations, extrajudicial killings, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical warfare, and the destruction of southern Iraq's marshes were some of the methods Saddam and the country's Ba'athist government used to maintain control. The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period is unknown, but estimated to be around 250,000 according to Human Rights Watch,[1] with the great majority of those occurring as a result of the 1988 Anfal genocide and the suppression of the 1991 uprisings in Iraq. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture."

Human rights organizations have documented government-approved executions, acts of torture and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.

• In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law" and called on Iraq to cease "summary and arbitrary executions ... the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances".[2]
• Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Ba'ath Party, which constituted only 8% of the population.
• Iraqi citizens were not legally allowed to assemble unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulated their internal affairs and monitored their activities.
• Police checkpoints on Iraq's roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling across country without government permission and expensive exit visas prevented Iraqi citizens from traveling abroad. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi females could not travel outside of the country without the escort of a male relative.[3]
• The Persecution of Feyli Kurds under Saddam Hussein,[4] also known as the Feyli Kurdish genocide, was a systematic persecution of Feylis by Saddam Hussein between 1970 and 2003. The persecution campaigns led to the expulsion, flight and effective exile of the Feyli Kurds from their ancestral lands in Iraq. The persecution began when a large number of Feyli Kurds were exposed to a big campaign by the regime that began by the dissolved RCCR issuance for 666 decision, which deprived Feyli Kurds of Iraqi nationality and considered them as Iranians. The systematic executions started in Baghdad and Khanaqin in 1979 and later spread to other Iraqi and Kurdish areas.[5][6] It is estimated that around 25,000 Feyli Kurds died due to captivity and torture.[7][8][clarification needed]
• Halabja poison gas attack:The Halabja poison gas attack occurred in the period 15–19 March 1988 during the Iran–Iraq War when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces and thousands of civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja were killed.[9]
• Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms and power stations.[9][10]
• In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed full-scale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before.[11]
• In June 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion, some of which are part of Islamic Sharia law, while government members and Saddam's family members were immune from punishments ranging around these crimes.[12]
• In 2001, the Iraqi government amended the Constitution to make sodomy a capital offense.
• On March 23, 2003, during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
• Also in April 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN's chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, "other news organizations were in the same bind."[13]
• After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total and more are being uncovered to this day.[14] While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
• Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other authoritarian nations.

"In January 2004, Human Rights Watch stated: "Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting [Saddam's] atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba'th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more."[1] A January 2003 The New York Times article by John Fisher Burns similarly states that "the number of those 'disappeared' into the hands of the secret police, never to be heard from again, could be 200,000" and compared Saddam to Joseph Stalin, while acknowledging that "Even on a proportional basis, [Stalin's] crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's."[23] The 1988 Al-Anfal campaign resulted in the death of 50,000-100,000 Kurds (although Kurdish sources have cited a higher figure of 182,000), while 25,000-100,000 civilians and rebels were killed during the suppression of the 1991 uprisings.[11][24] In addition, 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison were reportedly executed in a particularly large 1984 purge.[25] Far fewer Iraqis are known to have been executed during other years of Saddam's rule. For example, "Amnesty International reported that in 1981 over 350 people were officially executed in Iraq ... the Committee Against Repression in Iraq gives biographic particulars on 798 executions (along with 264 killings of unknown persons, and 428 biographies of unsentenced detainees and disappeared persons)." Kanan Makiya cautions that a focus on the death toll obscures the full extent of "the terror inside Iraq," which was largely the product of the pervasive secret police and systematic use of torture.[22]"

Operation Mass Appeal promoted a one sided version of all wiki cites to sell the war.

hahaha so all that is lies? Amnasty International lied? Human Rights Watch lied? hahahaha

 

[NotfooledbyW]

hahaha so all that is lies? Amnasty International lied? Human Rights Watch lied? hahahaha

SADDAM kept the Christians safe. THAT WAS THE Discussion. Try to keep up.

 

[struth]

chahaha so all that is lies? Amnasty International lied? Human Rights Watch lied? hahahaha

SADDAM kept the Christians safe. THAT WAS THE Discussion. Try to keep up.

He didn't care about their faith....he killed any of his subjects. to

That's the point.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

He didn't care about their faith....he killed any of his subjects. to

You and your Christian buddy Correll are lying dimwit anti-Iraqi Christian tools of the Dick Cheney War machine for your undying support for the unprepared unsupported reckless decision by George W BUSH to remove Saddam from power. After Joe Biden told him not to do it . Correll for blaming the intelligence gatherers.

You are responsible for this and are still proud of it:

But what should be remembered is that this wave of Christian persecution began not with Islamic State, but a decade ago in the chaos sparked by the US- and British-led invasion of Iraq. Under Saddam Hussein’s rule Christians in fact enjoyed what they now recall as a golden age. They were free to worship and played a full role in society. However, the removal of the dictator let loose an ugly Shia-Sunni power struggle.​

​

These may be the last Christians of the Middle East – unless we help | Jane Corbin​

​

Father Douglas Bazi, a Catholic priest I met in Irbil ...​

​

The priest’s church in Baghdad was bombed and he was taken hostage until the church paid a ransom. His captors broke his back with a hammer – then his teeth, one by one. “If you look at history, we are the same group who lose every time. They push us to lose our faith, our people, our role, our positions, our job, now we have lost our homes – so what next?”​

​

A million people, two-thirds of Iraq’s Christians, fled in the decade following the fall of Saddam​

 

[struth]

He didn't care about their faith....he killed any of his subjects. to

You are a lying dimwit anti-Iraqi Christian tool of the Dick Cheney War machine for your undying support for the unprepared unsupported reckless decision by George W BUSH to remove Saddam from power. Ever to Joe Biden told him not to do it .

You are responsible for this and still proud of it:

But what should be remembered is that this wave of Christian persecution began not with Islamic State, but a decade ago in the chaos sparked by the US- and British-led invasion of Iraq. Under Saddam Hussein’s rule Christians in fact enjoyed what they now recall as a golden age. They were free to worship and played a full role in society. However, the removal of the dictator let loose an ugly Shia-Sunni power struggle.​

​

These may be the last Christians of the Middle East – unless we help | Jane Corbin​

​

Father Douglas Bazi, a Catholic priest I met in Irbil ...​

​

The priest’s church in Baghdad was bombed and he was taken hostage until the church paid a ransom. His captors broke his back with a hammer – then his teeth, one by one. “If you look at history, we are the same group who lose every time. They push us to lose our faith, our people, our role, our positions, our job, now we have lost our homes – so what next?”​

​

A million people, two-thirds of Iraq’s Christians, fled in the decade following the fall of Saddam​

Please...I just provided well documented facts of Saddam's murderous regime.

Just stop. Sorry you can't torture anyone anymore.

Nobody cares what you have to say anymore Baghdad Bob....go spread your propaganda somewhere else.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

hahahahha nobody was protected...he killed Christians, Jews, Muslims.....he just killed

Bush killed more by lying us into war including 4500 Americans. SADDAM didn’t kill any Americans that I know of. Who’s side are you on anyway?

Bush would have killed no Americans in Iraq and half a million Iraqis would have lived out their Lives instead of getting killed in Bush’s disaster in Iraq.

Perhaps the Taliban would’ve been actually defeated if BUSH had listened to Joe Biden.

Senator Joe Biden *3: I am going to front-end guess it. I come down on the side of suggesting that another several months is not something that in any way appreciably increases any risk.​

U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, FEBRUARY 2003 on Iraq​

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Please...I just provided well documented facts of Saddam's murderous regime.

Providing facts not relevant to the discussion is a form of lying. You are a fully documented liar.

I’m gonna send the documentation to the Pope to see if there is any way to save you.

 

[struth]

hahahahha nobody was protected...he killed Christians, Jews, Muslims.....he just killed

Bush killed more by lying us into war including 4500 Americans. SADDAM didn’t kill any Americans that I know of. Who’s side are you on anyway?

Bush would have killed no Americans in Iraq and half a million Iraqis would have lived out their Lives instead of getting killed in Bush’s disaster in Iraq.

Perhaps the Taliban would’ve been actually defeated if BUSH had listened to Joe Biden.

Senator Joe Biden *3: I am going to front-end guess it. I come down on the side of suggesting that another several months is not something that in any way appreciably increases any risk.​

​

U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, FEBRUARY 2003 on Iraq​

more lying propaganda

 

[NotfooledbyW]

more lying propaganda

Go through the posts You cant find one sliver of a lie from me. you on the other hand are possibly outpacing Trump.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Yes....we took out Saddam and left the next admin a free and stable Iraq. I am not sure how you can say that wasn't a success.

Its very simple. To be success the following starting would have to have been True.

“Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” DUBYA the DECIDER March 17 2003.

It was not true. The March 2003 Invasion could not be a success as it became known that what Bush told us was the reason he chose war over peaceful means was a lie.

 

[struth]

more lying propaganda

Go through the posts You cant find one sliver of a lie from me. you on the other hand are possibly outpacing Trump.

it’s all lies and misinformation Baghdad Bob...we know how your debunked post work

 

[NotfooledbyW]

the UN had already found they were in violation of 1441.

Let’s pretend that was true on January 27, 2003. Here is the official response from the White House:

Mr. Armitage in a written statement to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Hearing on Iraq, a few days after the Blix sixty day report, these exact words, “The president was clear on Tuesday. He has not yet made a decision to resort to military action.”

JANUARY 30 2003 U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations,​

Do you understand what that Meant? There was no threat from Iraq’s conduct during the 1441 inspections to justify the use of military force at that point. And your Argument for starting a war grew weaker and weaker with every passing day of inspections. Saddam’s conduct improved day to day with proactive cooperation even on substance from the Iraqis by the end of February and the Decider continued to find no threat serious enough to justify a war going into March, getting close to those hotter and hotter days on the dusty road from Kuwait to Baghdad.

So what drive the decision to invade? An intelligence based imminent threat or the ambient temperature in Iraq during the summer.

But why not listen to Joe?

Senator Joe Biden *3: I am going to front-end guess it. I come down on the side of suggesting that another several months is not something that in any way appreciably increases any risk.​

U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, FEBRUARY 2003 on Iraq​

 

[NotfooledbyW]

H

it’s all lies and misinformation

But you cant point to one single sentence by me where you can make a case that I lied.

Why is that?

Correll took a shot and failed. At least he took a shot. Where is

 

[struth]

H

it’s all lies and misinformation

But you cant point to one single sentence by me where you can make a case that I lied.

Why is that?

Correll took a shot and failed. At least he took a shot. Where is

i thought when i said all it covered it...all

 

[NotfooledbyW]

i thought when i said all it covered it...all

Make a case starting with the first one and we can go through them all. But you need to point out your mental deduction and reasoning as if you are the prosecution in a courtroom. You have to elaborate on the accusation so I can refute the charges one by one. See what @Correl did and how I shot it down.

Until you bring a case I maintain my innocence. I have not lied in any posts on any message board ever.

I have made a few errors and when pointed out I stand corrected . - BUT NOT on Iraq.