Did Jesus Exist?

[westwall]

You now are denying that you talked about 100bc Yeshu and 45 ad Theudas the only Pilate era christ?
Calling someone stupid for showing you the historical relevance of what you said is calling yourself that name, because you said but worse did not understand what you yourself were proving and admitting.
Stop the ad hominem responses and be honest with yourself.

You seem to think that information traveled at the speed of radio back then. You seem to ignore the fact that 99% of the population was illiterate, you seem to ignore the fact that THOUSANDS of manuscripts have been lost over the intervening two thousand years. You seem bent on ignoring the fact that Tacitus, one of the worlds best historians, speaks of Christ in detail, and he was a mere thirty odd years after the fact, in other words, for your views to support themselves, you must contort yourself into a pretzel of logic.

Which is asinine.

 

[Tuatara]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

 

[ding]

There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts that document His ministry.

And you couldn't post one.

I remember posting a link to them and you saying they were unreliable or some such thing.

But I really shouldn't have to post them, now should I? Jesus did exist and Jesus was crucified.

 

[westwall]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

Big deal. I think I will assign far more credibility to the Romans, who were dealing with the Christians AT THE TIME, than some atheist trying to make a buck.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I believe he was a Jewish zealot seeking the end of Roman rule in the land God gave to the Israelites

You believe, wrong.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You now are denying that you talked about 100bc Yeshu and 45 ad Theudas the only Pilate era christ?
Calling someone stupid for showing you the historical relevance of what you said is calling yourself that name, because you said but worse did not understand what you yourself were proving and admitting.
Stop the ad hominem responses and be honest with yourself.

You seem to think that information traveled at the speed of radio back then. You seem to ignore the fact that 99% of the population was illiterate, you seem to ignore the fact that THOUSANDS of manuscripts have been lost over the intervening two thousand years. You seem bent on ignoring the fact that Tacitus, one of the worlds best historians, speaks of Christ in detail, and he was a mere thirty odd years after the fact, in other words, for your views to support themselves, you must contort yourself into a pretzel of logic.

Which is asinine.

Damn I don't even remember reading about him in a few history books outside the Bible..


Thanks for a quick read


The Roman historian and senatorTacitus referred to Christ, his executionby Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in one page of his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[1]

The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero.[2] The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christdescribed in the canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.[3][4]

Scholars generally consider Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[5][6][7] Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[8]

 

[Wyatt earp]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

 

[Tuatara]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

All you posted was a dumb ass in 2017AD

Jesus was a real person.. now was he the son of God ?
Once again you have your beliefs I have mine

 

[westwall]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

Tacitus had no axe to grind, could care less about whether Jesus was the son of God, and was living a mere twenty years after Jesus died. He had access to people who were in the area when Jesus walked the Earth, and was primarily concerned with the Christians because they were colossal pains in the ass. Carrier on the other hand, is according to his wiki page, "is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

So he suffers from what is known as confirmation bias. Like I said before, who to give more credence too, someone who had nothing to gain by writing about the man, or someone who has a philosophical, and monetary reason to question his existence, who ignores clear, non biblical historical reference from multiple sources and removed by a few years from the actual events.

 

[Tuatara]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

All you posted was a dumb ass in 2017AD

Richard Carrier has a BA in History, an MA in Ancient History and a PHD in Ancient History. You may not agree with his work but he is no dumb ass.

Jesus was a real person..

I have seen no evidence but he could have been.

now was he the son of God ?

Well, you would have to believe in God to believe that.

Once again you have your beliefs I have mine

doesn't everybody.

 

[fncceo]

If there was proof of his existence wouldn’t that negate the need for faith?

 

[westwall]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

All you posted was a dumb ass in 2017AD

Richard Carrier has a BA in History, an MA in Ancient History and a PHD in Ancient History. You may not agree with his work but he is no dumb ass.

Jesus was a real person..

I have seen no evidence but he could have been.

now was he the son of God ?

Well, you would have to believe in God to believe that.

Once again you have your beliefs I have mine

doesn't everybody.

There have been four non biblical sources provided to you. That you choose to ignore them reflects very poorly on your honesty.

 

[westwall]

Here is the wiki page for Tacitus. A true historian, unlike your dear carrier....

"The Annals, Tacitus' final work, covers the period from the death of Augustus Caesar in 14 AD. He wrote at least sixteen books, but books 7–10 and parts of books 5, 6, 11 and 16 are missing. Book 6 ends with the death of Tiberius and books 7 to 12 presumably covered the reigns of Caligula and Claudius. The remaining books cover the reign of Nero, perhaps until his death in June 68 or until the end of that year to connect with the Histories. The second half of book 16 is missing, ending with the events of 66. We do not know whether Tacitus completed the work; he died before he could complete his planned histories of Nerva and Trajan, and no record survives of the work on Augustus Caesar and the beginnings of the Roman Empire, with which he had planned to finish his work. The Annals is one of the earliest secular historical records to mention Christ, which Tacitus does in connection with Nero's persecution of the Christians."


Tacitus - Wikipedia

 

[Tuatara]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

Tacitus had no axe to grind, could care less about whether Jesus was the son of God, and was living a mere twenty years after Jesus died. He had access to people who were in the area when Jesus walked the Earth, and was primarily concerned with the Christians because they were colossal pains in the ass. Carrier on the other hand, is according to his wiki page, "is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

So he suffers from what is known as confirmation bias. Like I said before, who to give more credence too, someone who had nothing to gain by writing about the man, or someone who has a philosophical, and monetary reason to question his existence, who ignores clear, non biblical historical reference from multiple sources and removed by a few years from the actual events.

Regarding Tacitus,

1. It is not quoted by the Christian fathers.
2. Tertullian was familiar with the writings of Tacitus, and his arguments demanded the citation of this evidence had it existed.
3. Clement of Alexandria, at the beginning of the third century, made a compilation of all the recognitions of Christ and Christianity that had been made by Pagan writers up to his time. The writings of Tacitus furnished no recognition of them.
4. Origen, in his controversy with Celsus, would undoubtedly have used it had it existed.
5. The ecclesiastical historian Eusebius, in the fourth century, cites all the evidences of Christianity obtainable from Jewish and Pagan sources, but makes no mention of Tacitus.
6. It is not quoted by any Christian writer prior to the fifteenth century.
7. At this time but one copy of the Annals existed and this copy, it is claimed, was made in the eighth century -- 600 years after the time of Tacitus.
8. As this single copy was in the possession of a Christian the insertion of a forgery was easy.
9. Its severe criticisms of Christianity do not necessarily disprove its Christian origin. No ancient witness was more desirable than Tacitus, but his introduction at so late a period would make rejection certain unless Christian forgery could be made to appear improbable.
10. It is admitted by Christian writers that the works of Tacitus have not been preserved with any considerable degree of fidelity. In the writings ascribed to him are believed to be some of the writings of Quintilian.
11. The blood-curdling story about the frightful orgies of Nero reads like some Christian romance of the dark ages, and not like Tacitus.
12. In fact, this story, in nearly the same words, omitting the reference to Christ, is to be found in the writings of Sulpicius Severus, a Christian of the fifth century.
13. Suetonius, while mercilessly condemning the reign of Nero, says that in his public entertainments he took particular care that no human lives should be sacrificed, "not even those of condemned criminals."
14. At the time that the conflagration occurred, Tacitus himself declares that Nero was not in Rome, but at Antium.

Many who accept the authenticity of this section of the "Annals" believe that the sentence which declares that Christ was punished in the reign of Pontius Pilate, and which I have italicized, is an interpolation

The Christ : a critical review and analysis of the evidences of His existence : Remsburg, John E. (John Eleazer), 1846-1919 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Tuatara]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

All you posted was a dumb ass in 2017AD

Richard Carrier has a BA in History, an MA in Ancient History and a PHD in Ancient History. You may not agree with his work but he is no dumb ass.

Jesus was a real person..

I have seen no evidence but he could have been.

now was he the son of God ?

Well, you would have to believe in God to believe that.

Once again you have your beliefs I have mine

doesn't everybody.

There have been four non biblical sources provided to you. That you choose to ignore them reflects very poorly on your honesty.

Really, I provided a source that tackles all of your sources. I stated that he has many videos and books on the subject. Not one person here has shown they even watched 5 minutes of the video.

 

[westwall]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

Tacitus had no axe to grind, could care less about whether Jesus was the son of God, and was living a mere twenty years after Jesus died. He had access to people who were in the area when Jesus walked the Earth, and was primarily concerned with the Christians because they were colossal pains in the ass. Carrier on the other hand, is according to his wiki page, "is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

So he suffers from what is known as confirmation bias. Like I said before, who to give more credence too, someone who had nothing to gain by writing about the man, or someone who has a philosophical, and monetary reason to question his existence, who ignores clear, non biblical historical reference from multiple sources and removed by a few years from the actual events.

Regarding Tacitus,

1. It is not quoted by the Christian fathers.
2. Tertullian was familiar with the writings of Tacitus, and his arguments demanded the citation of this evidence had it existed.
3. Clement of Alexandria, at the beginning of the third century, made a compilation of all the recognitions of Christ and Christianity that had been made by Pagan writers up to his time. The writings of Tacitus furnished no recognition of them.
4. Origen, in his controversy with Celsus, would undoubtedly have used it had it existed.
5. The ecclesiastical historian Eusebius, in the fourth century, cites all the evidences of Christianity obtainable from Jewish and Pagan sources, but makes no mention of Tacitus.
6. It is not quoted by any Christian writer prior to the fifteenth century.
7. At this time but one copy of the Annals existed and this copy, it is claimed, was made in the eighth century -- 600 years after the time of Tacitus.
8. As this single copy was in the possession of a Christian the insertion of a forgery was easy.
9. Its severe criticisms of Christianity do not necessarily disprove its Christian origin. No ancient witness was more desirable than Tacitus, but his introduction at so late a period would make rejection certain unless Christian forgery could be made to appear improbable.
10. It is admitted by Christian writers that the works of Tacitus have not been preserved with any considerable degree of fidelity. In the writings ascribed to him are believed to be some of the writings of Quintilian.
11. The blood-curdling story about the frightful orgies of Nero reads like some Christian romance of the dark ages, and not like Tacitus.
12. In fact, this story, in nearly the same words, omitting the reference to Christ, is to be found in the writings of Sulpicius Severus, a Christian of the fifth century.
13. Suetonius, while mercilessly condemning the reign of Nero, says that in his public entertainments he took particular care that no human lives should be sacrificed, "not even those of condemned criminals."
14. At the time that the conflagration occurred, Tacitus himself declares that Nero was not in Rome, but at Antium.

Many who accept the authenticity of this section of the "Annals" believe that the sentence which declares that Christ was punished in the reign of Pontius Pilate, and which I have italicized, is an interpolation

The Christ : a critical review and analysis of the evidences of His existence : Remsburg, John E. (John Eleazer), 1846-1919 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Most of what Tacitus wrote has been lost, that we have any of it is a miracle. That he wrote of the early Christians is not in question. He DID. That he referred to Christ is likewise not in doubt. All the complainants are doing is trying to denigrate the Annals to try and eliminate a non biblical reference to Christ. It is a despicable attempt to revise history. Something that carrier seems to like doing on a fairly regular basis. He and irving are two peas in a pod in that respect.

 

[westwall]

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

All you posted was a dumb ass in 2017AD

Richard Carrier has a BA in History, an MA in Ancient History and a PHD in Ancient History. You may not agree with his work but he is no dumb ass.

Jesus was a real person..

I have seen no evidence but he could have been.

now was he the son of God ?

Well, you would have to believe in God to believe that.

Once again you have your beliefs I have mine

doesn't everybody.

There have been four non biblical sources provided to you. That you choose to ignore them reflects very poorly on your honesty.

Really, I provided a source that tackles all of your sources. I stated that he has many videos and books on the subject. Not one person here has shown they even watched 5 minutes of the video.

No, it doesn't. It is a vain attempt to delegitimize a known non biblical reference to Jesus. It is called revisionist history and is no different than the despicable scum who try and refute the Holocaust. Two peas from the same despicable pod.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

Tacitus had no axe to grind, could care less about whether Jesus was the son of God, and was living a mere twenty years after Jesus died. He had access to people who were in the area when Jesus walked the Earth, and was primarily concerned with the Christians because they were colossal pains in the ass. Carrier on the other hand, is according to his wiki page, "is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

So he suffers from what is known as confirmation bias. Like I said before, who to give more credence too, someone who had nothing to gain by writing about the man, or someone who has a philosophical, and monetary reason to question his existence, who ignores clear, non biblical historical reference from multiple sources and removed by a few years from the actual events.

is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

Translation~ another one of these

Who say god doesn't exist but thinks about god 24/7


What's the point with people like this?


They are miserable in their life's so they want other people to be miserable with them?
I don't get it..

 

[westwall]

Richard Carrier has many videos and books arguing against Jesus ever existing. Here is one

What are you going to post next some retarded videos that man never stepped on the moon?


Jesus was a person.. now to say he was the son of God?


I believe it

And you have your beliefs ...

Well I certainly didn't post the video so you could look at it with a thoughtful and critical approach. I posted it so you could dismiss it without conviction. Hang on to your world. Don't let anyone break it down.

Tacitus had no axe to grind, could care less about whether Jesus was the son of God, and was living a mere twenty years after Jesus died. He had access to people who were in the area when Jesus walked the Earth, and was primarily concerned with the Christians because they were colossal pains in the ass. Carrier on the other hand, is according to his wiki page, "is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

So he suffers from what is known as confirmation bias. Like I said before, who to give more credence too, someone who had nothing to gain by writing about the man, or someone who has a philosophical, and monetary reason to question his existence, who ignores clear, non biblical historical reference from multiple sources and removed by a few years from the actual events.

is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger."

Translation~ another one of these

Who say god doesn't exist but thinks about god 24/7


What's the point with people like this?


They are miserable in their life's so they want other people to be miserable with them?
I don't get it..

carrier is just another in a long line of militant atheists trying to impose his will on others. I have no idea if Jesus was the Son of God, i do know that those who believe in it are none of my business. I do read a hell of a lot of history, bot contemporary and modern material, and Christ was written about very shortly after his death by non biblical sources. This is well known. The efforts by these people to re write history is a direct assault on history. These people are not historians, they are vandals, they are only interested in destruction, not the furtherance of knowledge.