Detroit: A Mixture of Water and Socialism

[PoliticalChic]

The people who benefit from SNAP are WalMart and Archer-Daniels. Come on, I know you are a gullible tool of Hate Radio, but let's be honest what SNAP is. SNAP Keeps people happy with paying higher prices for food and keeps rich companies making a killing off of it.

The people who benefit from welfare policy are not the folks receiving the largesse....it is the Liberal establishment, the ones who get votes for giving out 'candy.'

1. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were give a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased

marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on

welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the

separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.

Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of

fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.

c. For each dollar increase in welfare payment, low-income persons reduced labor earnings by eighty cents. Christensen and Williams, “Welfare Family Cohesiveness and Out of Wedlock Birth,” p. 398.

d. A 50 % increase in the monthly values of welfare benefits led to a 43 % increase in the number of out-of-wedlock births. Hill and O’Neill, “Underclass Behavior in the United States: Measurement and Analysis Determinants,” in http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf


Your problem is that you've spent far too much time hissing at Emmanuel Goldstein.

 

[JoeB131]

The people who benefit from welfare policy are not the folks receiving the largesse....it is the Liberal establishment, the ones who get votes for giving out 'candy.'

Your problem is that you've spent far too much time hissing at Emmanuel Goldstein.

No, my problem was that I made the mistake of thinking I had more in common with the white guy in the corner office than I did with the people of color who were in the same position I'm in. A slip on the ice cured me of that delusion.

But without bothering to wade through another one of your cut and paste jobs that I refuse to read, I would have no problem replacing welfare with "Workfare". If the private sector doesn't want you, then we will find work for you to do, and there's plenty of stuff to be done.

the 1%ers wouldn't be for that at all, I'm guessing. .

 

[NYcarbineer]

The two are mutually exclusive. Schools and public safety are services. Utilities are "products"....Tangible goods.
BTW, it is widely accepted that the typical rental unit DOES NOT contribute an equal amount of revenue to the services consumed by the people residing in the unit.
In other words, the usage fees public services required by each rental unit exceed the return. Simply put, not it is NO included in the rent.
Nice try.

.

ALL municipal utilities are taxpayer funded...And STILL charge the customers for use.
Are you suggesting that ONLY taxpayers should pay for municipally owned utilities?
And those who own no property? They get theirs free of charge?
And those who do not work but could work? No charge for them either?
It's bad enough when property owners are told they must fund the rest of government while renters pay nothing.
Time for you to head back to the drawing board.

I'm saying that water should be like school. You get water like you get public education, without regard to your ability to pay. If you want to limit it to a reasonable basic amount, fine, pay extra if you want extra, like you would with education.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No, my problem was that I made the mistake of thinking I had more in common with the white guy in the corner office than I did with the people of color who were in the same position I'm in. A slip on the ice cured me of that delusion.

But without bothering to wade through another one of your cut and paste jobs that I refuse to read, I would have no problem replacing welfare with "Workfare". If the private sector doesn't want you, then we will find work for you to do, and there's plenty of stuff to be done.

the 1%ers wouldn't be for that at all, I'm guessing. .

"But without bothering to wade through another one of your cut and paste ..."

Do you understand that 'cut and paste' refers to how material is provided...not the material itself.

If you had trouble understanding what my post proved, please, don't be shy.

Many of your persuasion have trouble processing information.....

I'll try to dumb it down for you.


You play the victim so well I bet you carry your own body-outline chalk.

 

[JoeB131]

"But without bothering to wade through another one of your cut and paste ..."

Do you understand that 'cut and paste' refers to how material is provided...not the material itself.

If you had trouble understanding what my post proved, please, don't be shy.

Many of your persuasion have trouble processing information.....

I'll try to dumb it down for you.

You play the victim so well I bet you carry your own body-outline chalk.

I'm never a victim. I fight back. And from time to time, I even get REVENGE!!!!

But to the point, some tiresome "Them welfare folks sure is lazy" study from the 1970's along with the tired Republican Bromides about welfare is just not worth wading through. Just pretend that 400 years of institutionalized racism hasn't had an effect.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm never a victim. I fight back. And from time to time, I even get REVENGE!!!!

But to the point, some tiresome "Them welfare folks sure is lazy" study from the 1970's along with the tired Republican Bromides about welfare is just not worth wading through. Just pretend that 400 years of institutionalized racism hasn't had an effect.

Actually, it's 49 years of LBJ/Liberal/Democrat/Progressive policies that have destroyed this nation.

Judging by how seamlessly you fall into Liberal talking points,....
.... I have the distinct feeling that when your ship finally comes in, you'll be at the airport.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, it's 49 years of LBJ/Liberal/Democrat/Progressive policies that have destroyed this nation.

Judging by how seamlessly you fall into Liberal talking points,....
.... I have the distinct feeling that when your ship finally comes in, you'll be at the airport.

Well, no, you see, the thing was, I already had my ship.

Then that cocksucker Bush sank it.

What has destroyed this nation is that the rich got out of the limits we put on their greed after the last time they wrecked the economy.

My Dad was a union guy, high school education. He had enough money to raise five kids AND own a nice little vacation property in Wisconsin. NOt because he was plotting every moment of his life how to take advantage of everyone else, which is what you Republicans seem to think is a virtue. He worked hard, he did what society expected of him and he enjoyed the fruits of his labors. At least until he died from Lung cancer from that Asbestos the rich assholes told him was totally non-carcinogenic.

Now, here's the thing. I went to college. I served in the Armed Forces. I've been pretty much been working since I was 16. And every couple of years, your beloved Republicans fuck up the economy and I'm having to pick up the pieces.

Not because a mean old welfare person did anything to me.

Seriously, turn off the Hate Radio, work a few weeks in an office with your attitudes towards working folks. It should be amusing up to the point where they slash the tires on your car.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, no, you see, the thing was, I already had my ship.

Then that cocksucker Bush sank it.

What has destroyed this nation is that the rich got out of the limits we put on their greed after the last time they wrecked the economy.

My Dad was a union guy, high school education. He had enough money to raise five kids AND own a nice little vacation property in Wisconsin. NOt because he was plotting every moment of his life how to take advantage of everyone else, which is what you Republicans seem to think is a virtue. He worked hard, he did what society expected of him and he enjoyed the fruits of his labors. At least until he died from Lung cancer from that Asbestos the rich assholes told him was totally non-carcinogenic.

Now, here's the thing. I went to college. I served in the Armed Forces. I've been pretty much been working since I was 16. And every couple of years, your beloved Republicans fuck up the economy and I'm having to pick up the pieces.

Not because a mean old welfare person did anything to me.

Seriously, turn off the Hate Radio, work a few weeks in an office with your attitudes towards working folks. It should be amusing up to the point where they slash the tires on your car.

Once filtered through the prism of your self-absorption, it becomes clear that, outside of your personal life story....nothing else is true.

Of course, once that becomes evident, the old axiom comes to mind:

"The 13th chime of a clock, not only does it make no sense, but it calls into question the validity of the 12 chimes that preceded it."'

 

[thereisnospoon2]

European countries wouldn't shut people's water off.

Now, if you want to be more like Europe, I'm all for that. 75% tax rate on the rich, that would be awesome.

Move to Europe...BYE!

 

[thereisnospoon2]

My, what is it with you guys, that you trot out these self-loathing Uncle Tom and Aunt Jemimas and you think you have an argument.

What does that have to do with anything I said.

I got let go from a job after 6 years of hard work because I slipped on some ice and busted up my knee and required tens of thousands of dollars to fix.

Didn't matter I worked 60 hours a week for them sometimes, coming in on Saturdays to take care of things. Didn't matter that I had seniority on the rest of the office, didn't matter that I developed processes and procedures they are using to this very day.

The minute it looked like i might cost them more than their obscene profit margin, they were pretty keen to get me off the payroll.

So seriously, fuck the rich, fuck capitalism.

I don't want to see people on welfare, but I'd rather give it to welfare people than rich people.

Your anger is so very misplaced.
You are irrational in your slings and arrows. For without the evil rich and in the absence of capitalism which you claim to loathe so very much, you would be without employment and living off the public dole.
In my experience, those who lash out in anger at others based on their misfortunes, have failed to look inward.
Try it...

 

[thereisnospoon2]

Well, no, you see, the thing was, I already had my ship.

Then that cocksucker Bush sank it.

What has destroyed this nation is that the rich got out of the limits we put on their greed after the last time they wrecked the economy.

My Dad was a union guy, high school education. He had enough money to raise five kids AND own a nice little vacation property in Wisconsin. NOt because he was plotting every moment of his life how to take advantage of everyone else, which is what you Republicans seem to think is a virtue. He worked hard, he did what society expected of him and he enjoyed the fruits of his labors. At least until he died from Lung cancer from that Asbestos the rich assholes told him was totally non-carcinogenic.

Now, here's the thing. I went to college. I served in the Armed Forces. I've been pretty much been working since I was 16. And every couple of years, your beloved Republicans fuck up the economy and I'm having to pick up the pieces.

Not because a mean old welfare person did anything to me.

Seriously, turn off the Hate Radio, work a few weeks in an office with your attitudes towards working folks. It should be amusing up to the point where they slash the tires on your car.

Wow....Just wow.

 

[thereisnospoon2]

And Thomas Paine argued for a basic income as a right for all citizens,

if you want to play dueling founders.

Two arguments for Basic Income: Thomas Paine (1737-1809) and Thomas Spence (1750-1814) | John Marangos - Academia.edu

The argument was HIS opinion.
Income is EARNED. Not given

 

[thereisnospoon2]

Hmmm...then I guess you misspoke when you tried to blame liberals for the ECONOMY of cities??

You want to revise your testimony?

HA! The proof is in the actions of the politicians that have controlled Detroit for the last 50 years.
Do you think you can deflect the blame away from you side of aisle by screaming "we didn't do it...It was THEM!!!!"....?

 

[thereisnospoon2]

I want to first hear from all your pals with kids in school who believe that it would be fair if we dramatically raised their school taxes because all the people without children had their school taxes eliminated.

Oh just a minute...I thought you libs never saw a tax you didn't like?
BY your twisted logic, people who do not use city water, have a generator or solar power as a source and heat their homes without using city provided gas, should pay for it anyway?
Or how about this?...Those who do not use toll roads, should pay for those as well?
Let me point out some facts to you....Just about every single government owned entity is subsidized by people who never use those services.
For example....In the NYC Metro area, there are 11 counties. In those 11 counties there is an additional tax on gasoline that is used tyo subsidize mass transit users. It is used to make the subway and surface rail fares cheaper.
Now why the hell should non users of the trains have to pay for them? That's your idea of fairness?
I think everything should be funded by user fees. Let those who use it, pay for it.

 

[thereisnospoon2]

You mean like Kansas?

State turns to borrowing / LJWorld.com

When did the state of Kansas become a city?

 

[thereisnospoon2]

But you see, this is where you are a bit deluded.

the rich are not rich because they baked the pie. They just happen to be the ones with the knife cutting the slices.

Using the example of my health care issues. My health insurance was part of my compensation package.

Which means i had a reasonable expectation that if I had an issue, it would be taken care of.

But apparently, nope, guys who lived in mansions might have to give up a dressage horsie.

Now, without your mewling about "Socialism" or "Communism", why not provide every able bodied American with a job, let them bring home a paycheck, and yes, then they could pay for their own water bill or their fair share of it.

Because the system you support isn't about that. We had near full employment in the last years of Clinton, and the rich hated that. They hated having to pay teenagers above minimum wage because if they didn't, someone else would.

"Reasonable expectation"...Do you think that it is reasonable for an insurance policy to come without limits?
Where you get the idea that there is a pie?
And without those wealthy people who build businesses and create jobs, do you have somewhere to go to work?
And in the alternative, why not just start your own business? This way, you get to keep the fruits of your labor.
Sound like a plan?

 

[thereisnospoon2]

No, I denigrate a whole economic system because it created a philosophy where that sort of thing is acceptable.

In GOP land, that was a perfectly acceptable thing to do. ANd this wonderful boss, who also fired people who got injured on the workplace or female employees when they got pregnant, thought Mitt Romney would be a wonderful President.

Since leaving the Army in 1992, I've seen so much shitty behavior from employers that I'm just not keen on the whole economic system being based on them being able to make obscene profits.

Jesus called Greed a sin. There was probably a reason for that.

Yes..Denigrate a system that provides you with a living.
Why don't you put that in your resume?

 

[hipeter924]

Detroit seems to want to get itself in the history books, for all the wrong reasons. Wonder what happens first, water riots or gang paradise status.

 

[thereisnospoon2]

Ho-hum. Don't know why you cut and paste this shit like I'm going to be impressed.

Hey, unlike you, I actually am out there working in Corporate America. I see all the shit that goes down, and, no, they aren't brilliant.

At best, the wealthy are parasites that have convinced stupid people they are vital organs.

Now, I'll admit, I think our current GM is a bright guy. But things happen because the rest of us go to our cubicles and work cells every day and do thankless, soul-sucking work.

Meanwhile, the investors really had nothing to do with that, and they are getting awesome amounts of money because they guessed right.

So, no, I don't buy into the mentality that the rich are rich because they "Deserve it".

Not for a fucking minute.

There are a lot more Ringo Starrs than John Lennons in the world.

"I see all the shit that goes down"....OK, Provide some believable examples.
"thankless, soul-sucking work"......Then WHY are you doing it? Not only do you despise the people for whom you work, you hate your job? Please show me the logic

 

[JoeB131]

Yes..Denigrate a system that provides you with a living.
Why don't you put that in your resume?

What provides me with a living is that I'm very good at what I do.

Capitalists are parasites that have convinced stupid people they are vital organs.