Dems want Laws changed after Rittenhouse shootings. Are vigilantes the answer? (Poll)

[kyzr]

That will last till the next idiot gun toter is sued out of existence.

Who was the last one sued out of existence? Link please.

 

[kyzr]

Nope. Not going to happen.
"NBC said I was a murderer".
"Um, yeah, here you are on tape murdering people!"
Smirky McBitchslap probably didn't get any money beyond "Go away" money for his lawyers...
And, yes, Kyle can claim now he supports BLM, but here he is hanging out with the Racist Proud Boys.

I agree, it isn't good, but it's not like we are going to pass gun control laws or anything. But if this was domestic, not sure where you get "animals" (racist code for people of color). It was obviously someone who was already in her life.

The jurors after the judge did everything he could to sabotage the prosecution's case, you mean?

I doubt the feds will bring charges, because they never do. They should in these cases where local authorities don't do their jobs.

That said. the problem with a criminal trial is that you have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact deliberations went on for three days tell me there was lots of doubt.

Civil Trial, the standard is much, much lower. They only have to show Kyle's conduct was reckless.

1. Sandman made a lot of money and offered to coach Kyle. Kyle has lawyered up. So if you don't understand the difference between murder and self-defense, you might be surprised how much Kyle is entitled to. Look what Sandman got for "defamation" from:
"It’s the teen’s second win in a whopping $800 million defamation battle against a number of news outlets including the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, CBS, The Guardian, The Hill and NBC."

Washington Post settles $250M suit with Covington teen Nick Sandmann

The Washington Post on Friday agreed to settle a monster $250 million lawsuit filed by Covington Catholic High School student Nick Sandmann over its botched coverage of his 2019 encounter with a Na…

nypost.com

2. The racist "Proud Boys"? The FBI checked his phone records and he's clean. So there is no way to prove what any photo-shopped photo means. Otherwise known as no illegality. Besides, the "victims" were white, so trying to play the race card is ridiculous.

3. If the judge did anything wrong, and the entire trial is on tape, the Feds or the prosecutor could ask for a re-trial. The judge did his job well, no runs no hits, no errors, and no way to try Kyle again, "dismissed with prejudice".

4. Prove that the WI justice system didn't do its job. You can't. You just don't like the verdict. The Left's lies and "defamation" and "slander" and attempted jury tampering didn't work. The jury believed the witnesses and what they saw in the videos. The Feds have no basis or grounds for new charges against Kyle, and they know it.

5. There was a lot of evidence to review, and if you didn't hear the judge's instructions to the jury you might not appreciate how much material and how many topics the jurors had to wade thru. The judge even let the jury decide on lesser charges like "manslaughter" etc. Which was a gift to the prosecution, who should have known that the evidence was totally inadequate for a murder conviction.

6. OK, pin your hopes on a civil trial. We'll see how that pans out, or if it even happens.

 

[Doc7505]

Democrats on the Sunday morning shows, as well as many others want laws changed so that law abiding citizens can't defend themselves from criminals.
In SF gangs of looters emptied Louis Vitton and other high-end stores. What if Louis hired a few armed vigilantes?
In Philadelphia, a mom and baby were killed coming home from a baby shower,
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRAT'S OUTRAGE???????????????.

Pregnant Woman Shot, Killed Returning Home From Her Baby Shower, Philadelphia Police Say

A pregnant woman is dead after a shooting in the Crescentville section of Philadelphia.

philadelphia.cbslocal.com

NYC Mayor DeBlasio said the Rittenhouse verdict "sends a horrible message"...
De Blasio joins NY’s left in raging over Kyle Rittenhouse — as NYPD on alert for potential unrest
“This verdict is disgusting and it sends a horrible message to this country. Where is the justice in this,” de Blasio tweeted after the 18-year-old defendant was cleared of all charges in the deaths of two men and the wounding of a third during racially charged violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in 2020."

Biden, Adams, Sharpton and others weigh in on Rittenhouse verdict

The acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse in a Kenosha, Wis., courtroom sparked plenty of opinions on Friday — divided in the same way the country is. The baby-faced gunman, who killed two men and wounded a third at a Black Lives Matter protest last year, was hailed as a hero in right-wing circles...

news.yahoo.com

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) tweeted, “It’s time to dismantle systemic racism & fundamentally transform our broken justice system.”

California Gov. Gavin Newsom worried about the precedent set by the Rittenhouse case.
“America today: you can break the law, carry around weapons built for a military, shoot and kill people, and get away with it,” the Democrat tweeted. “That’s the message we’ve just sent to armed vigilantes across the nation.”


What if neighborhoods organized vigilantes to shoot criminals in their neighborhoods, today's version of a "well regulated militia"? Would urban gang shootings stop?

Lets take a poll on what should happen when pols and DAs stop police from arresting and prosecuting violent criminals.

Should vigilantes fill the gap and protect neighborhoods from criminals?

[The OP and thread title are now better aligned, sorry for the closure of the first thread discussion]

~~~~~~
Within one week we have seen Justice at work. Juries have listened to the evidence presented to them, deliberated and come to decisions of innocence or guilt. In both cases the Juries came to different decisions as well they should have.
Our system works despite what the Progressive Marxist/DSA Democrat racists say.
Meanwhile there are found flaws within other parts of our jurisprudence system as seen by the Christmas day incident where people were killed and injured.
Here the question is asked, how does a career criminal with a 55 page rap sheet, wanted in the state of Nevada for rape, molesting an underage girl, pimping, trafficking, and violence allowed to roam free even after running down his girl friend just days before and released?
The tragedy of these deaths and injuries in Waukesha rest upon the guilt of those prosecutors that have perverted the process of jurisprudence in the name of their Progressive ideology.

 

[Doc7505]

Having their insurance up to date is all any property owner needs to do. Hiring a goon squad has far more potential liability than most sensible business owners are willing to risk.

~~~~~~

 

[JoeB131]

1. Sandman made a lot of money and offered to coach Kyle. Kyle has lawyered up. So if you don't understand the difference between murder and self-defense, you might be surprised how much Kyle is entitled to. Look what Sandman got for "defamation" from:
"It’s the teen’s second win in a whopping $800 million defamation battle against a number of news outlets including the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, CBS, The Guardian, The Hill and NBC."

Yeah, he didn't get anywhere near that... he got maybe six figures for his lawyers to go away.

Kyle's problem is, he's got people he actually killed, and they have lawyers, too.

4. Prove that the WI justice system didn't do its job. You can't. You just don't like the verdict. The Left's lies and "defamation" and "slander" and attempted jury tampering didn't work. The jury believed the witnesses and what they saw in the videos. The Feds have no basis or grounds for new charges against Kyle, and they know it.

Well, here's an article about the judge...

The Kyle Rittenhouse Judge Is the Actual Worst

“I think Kyle Rittenhouse is going to get off. They gave the case to the worst judge in town.”

www.vanityfair.com

What you can tell this is a small county prosecutor who has only done 13 jury trials in the last two years, who was clearly outlawyered...

Won't be the same in civil court.

3. If the judge did anything wrong, and the entire trial is on tape, the Feds or the prosecutor could ask for a re-trial. The judge did his job well, no runs no hits, no errors, and no way to try Kyle again, "dismissed with prejudice".

Wow, are you really this ignorant about American juris prudence? The judge fucked up a lot of things, so did the prosecutor... but the principle of Double Jeopardy applies. Rittenhouse can get on TV tomorrow and proudly announce he murdered those guys, never thought there were a threat and even got a woodie when he murdered them... and there's not a fucking thing the state can do to him. At least until he murders someone else.

They could bring federal charges, but that's unlikely, because the feds rarely step in when state courts fuck up.

 

[kyzr]

Yeah, he didn't get anywhere near that... he got maybe six figures for his lawyers to go away.
Kyle's problem is, he's got people he actually killed, and they have lawyers, too.

Well, here's an article about the judge...

What you can tell this is a small county prosecutor who has only done 13 jury trials in the last two years, who was clearly outlawyered...

Won't be the same in civil court.

Wow, are you really this ignorant about American juris prudence? The judge fucked up a lot of things, so did the prosecutor... but the principle of Double Jeopardy applies. Rittenhouse can get on TV tomorrow and proudly announce he murdered those guys, never thought there were a threat and even got a woodie when he murdered them... and there's not a fucking thing the state can do to him. At least until he murders someone else.

They could bring federal charges, but that's unlikely, because the feds rarely step in when state courts fuck up.

1. You have no clue what Sandman got. It was a lot, from many "news" outlets.

2. Kyle has no problem. He shot in self-defense, as confirmed by a jury.

3. The Judge got re-elected 7 times, he's a very good and experienced judge. He never even faces an opponent. So go ahead put up a Leftist judge and watch what happens.

4. Civil court my ass. Remember, there was no crime, there was no crime, there was no crime...

5. Your last paragraph basically shoots any civil trial in the ass, doesn't it? Kyle is free and clear, watch for the book and movie deals. Not to mention the lawsuits for the malicious attacks by the MSM and Xiden, that will be a much better case, he should get way more than Sandman.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

2. A civil trial won't prove anything, Kyle did nothing wrong, his actions are well within the LAW.
If the DOJ brings Federal Charges, they would all be thrown out upon appeal. Kyle did nothing wrong, his actions are well within the LAW.

Letting Looters Loose Has Been an Act of War Against America by Its Own Rulers

A civil trial will cause a Civil War. Patriots are fed up with the Democrats lazy fairy attitude towards criminal savages, who are the enemies of the human race.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

~~~~~~

The Seoul of a Champion

The ROKs are tough as nails, as they proved in Vietnam, crawling into hostile villages at night. They were the only ones there who brought the war home to the enemy.

 

[JoeB131]

1. You have no clue what Sandman got. It was a lot, from many "news" outlets.

If he got anything more than 'Just go away" money, he'd be broadcasting it from the rooftops.

2. Kyle has no problem. He shot in self-defense, as confirmed by a jury.

That's like saying OJ didn't kill anyone because a jury said so... Even after he admitted it.

3. The Judge got re-elected 7 times, he's a very good and experienced judge. He never even faces an opponent. So go ahead put up a Leftist judge and watch what happens.

Which proves that electing judges that nobody pays attention to is a bad idea.

4. Civil court my ass. Remember, there was no crime, there was no crime, there was no crime...

Doesn't matter. There IS civil liability. The big problem is that they people who were killed have deeper pockets to go after than Rittenhouse. The town of Kenosha SHOULD have enforced it's own curfuew and not let a little maniac wander about with a gun. but they did.

5. Your last paragraph basically shoots any civil trial in the ass, doesn't it? Kyle is free and clear, watch for the book and movie deals. Not to mention the lawsuits for the malicious attacks by the MSM and Xiden, that will be a much better case, he should get way more than Sandman.

Nobody in Hollywood wants to make a movie about Rittenhouse. "I was a teenage racist" is not a movie that is going to sell.

He doesn't have a leg to stand on in a lawsuit.... He did shoot three people. The media reported he shot three people.

Obviously, you don't understand how civil liability works, so let me help you out.

OJ simpson was acquitted of murdering his wife and her friend in 1995. But in 1996, he was brought into court in a civil trial on the SAME evidence, and a civil jury found him liable and ordered him to pay 33.5 million in damages to the families of the people he killed.

 

[Ivan88]

Welcome to South Africa, only those who rule over Aryan, Syro Christian Israelite Americans want it to be even worse.
They are itching to disarm Americans and are doing so by degrees.
If your defense implements were registered when you bought them, you are cruising for being dis-armed.
Anyway, it is all part of the Divine Judgements and Punishments arrayed against America which has descended into Sodom and Babylon.
The Prince of Gog has already invaded America and has begun the mopping up phase.

 

[JoeB131]

Welcome to South Africa, only those who rule over Aryan, Syro Christian Israelite Americans want it to be even worse.
They are itching to disarm Americans and are doing so by degrees.
If your defense implements were registered when you bought them, you are cruising for being dis-armed.
Anyway, it is all part of the Divine Judgements and Punishments arrayed against America which has descended into Sodom and Babylon.
The Prince of Gog has already invaded America and has begun the mopping up phase.

Okay, when they start misquoting bible verses, you know you've gone into crazy town.

The sad thing is, America won't fix it's gun laws. We've decided that 43,000 gun deaths a year is acceptable.

 

[kyzr]

If he got anything more than 'Just go away" money, he'd be broadcasting it from the rooftops.

That's like saying OJ didn't kill anyone because a jury said so... Even after he admitted it.

Which proves that electing judges that nobody pays attention to is a bad idea.

Doesn't matter. There IS civil liability. The big problem is that they people who were killed have deeper pockets to go after than Rittenhouse. The town of Kenosha SHOULD have enforced it's own curfuew and not let a little maniac wander about with a gun. but they did.

Nobody in Hollywood wants to make a movie about Rittenhouse. "I was a teenage racist" is not a movie that is going to sell.

He doesn't have a leg to stand on in a lawsuit.... He did shoot three people. The media reported he shot three people.

Obviously, you don't understand how civil liability works, so let me help you out.

OJ simpson was acquitted of murdering his wife and her friend in 1995. But in 1996, he was brought into court in a civil trial on the SAME evidence, and a civil jury found him liable and ordered him to pay 33.5 million in damages to the families of the people he killed.

1. Happy Thanksgiving!!
2. No clue WTF Sandman got, but it's not chump change, you have no clue either, especially if the settlement included a "non-disclosure" clause.
3. The OJ jury were dopes and got the verdict wrong. The Rittenhouse jury got the verdict right.
4. Which proves that good judges get re-elected...unopposed.
5. The idiots that attacked a guy with an AR committed suicide, suicide by stupidity.
6. We'll see what book and movie deals Kyle gets. Your calling him a racist just makes him wealthier.
7. His leg is "self-defense", that's all he needs to stuff any lawsuit.
8. OJ was guilty of murder by the "preponderance of the evidence". Kyle is innocent.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I believe in God. Vengeance is His.... Not mine, not yours or Karma's....no matter what she thinks!!!

I believe in logic----criminals feel embolden to rape, murder, burn, loot-------either fight back or you and your family will be vicimized.

I was also raised on a small farm---we shot rabid critters to protect all the other critters.

 

[JoeB131]

1. Happy Thanksgiving!!
2. No clue WTF Sandman got, but it's not chump change, you have no clue either, especially if the settlement included a "non-disclosure" clause.

But that's the point... it included a NDA. Which means it probably wasn't that much.

3. The OJ jury were dopes and got the verdict wrong. The Rittenhouse jury got the verdict right.

Actually, they were both wrong... but frankly, I can give the OJ jurors more credit. When your star witness perjures himself on the stand, it's a bad look.

4. Which proves that good judges get re-elected...unopposed.

No, it shows that no one knows who these judges are...

5. The idiots that attacked a guy with an AR committed suicide, suicide by stupidity.

So when someone goes blasting with an AR and kills people you care about, and you find that someone could have tackled him and stopped him, you are going to be totally forgiving, right? I mean, it would be stupid to tackle someone with an AR when he is killing people. Well, it's stupid to let people BUY AR's, but that's another discussion.

6. We'll see what book and movie deals Kyle gets. Your calling him a racist just makes him wealthier.

He might get a book deal, because anyone can get a book deal, and it's a great way to pay off people. No one wants to see "I was a Teenage Racist".

7. His leg is "self-defense", that's all he needs to stuff any lawsuit.

Not for a civil lawsuit. A Civil Lawsuit only requires a perponderance of the evidence, as opposed to the criminal suit, which required beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think the doubts were reasonable, we got the mother fucker on tape shooting people.

8. OJ was guilty of murder by the "preponderance of the evidence". Kyle is innocent.

Actually, we didn't have OJ on film committing the murders like we do with Kyle. So, no, you could make an argument that the blood was planted by a racist cop who perjured himself on the stand. Oh, yeah, and the gloves didn't fit.

The reality- the OJ Civil Suit was held in Brentwood with a mostly white jury. The Criminal Case was in LA with a mostly black jury.

 

[kyzr]

But that's the point... it included a NDA. Which means it probably wasn't that much.

Actually, they were both wrong... but frankly, I can give the OJ jurors more credit. When your star witness perjures himself on the stand, it's a bad look.

No, it shows that no one knows who these judges are...

So when someone goes blasting with an AR and kills people you care about, and you find that someone could have tackled him and stopped him, you are going to be totally forgiving, right? I mean, it would be stupid to tackle someone with an AR when he is killing people. Well, it's stupid to let people BUY AR's, but that's another discussion.

He might get a book deal, because anyone can get a book deal, and it's a great way to pay off people. No one wants to see "I was a Teenage Racist".

Not for a civil lawsuit. A Civil Lawsuit only requires a perponderance of the evidence, as opposed to the criminal suit, which required beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think the doubts were reasonable, we got the mother fucker on tape shooting people.

Actually, we didn't have OJ on film committing the murders like we do with Kyle. So, no, you could make an argument that the blood was planted by a racist cop who perjured himself on the stand. Oh, yeah, and the gloves didn't fit.

The reality- the OJ Civil Suit was held in Brentwood with a mostly white jury. The Criminal Case was in LA with a mostly black jury.

1. The answer is "we don't know how much Sandman got". We just don't know. But we do know that he sued many "propaganda outlets".

2. OJ is a POS, no sense even talking about him.
What star witness perjured himself? You can't make statements without proving them.

3. A judge that has been doing great work since 1983 (Schroeder) is well known and well respected. Democrats don't even put up a judge to run against him. So stop whining about Schroeder.

4. Kyle did nothing but defend himself from dangerous criminal rioters. He was not "blasting" anyone, that is just a LIE.

5. You call Kyle a "racist" with no proof. That's just another lie. All you have a lies.

6. Even the "preponderance" of the "evidence" needs a crime. Kyle committed no crimes, zero, nada, nil, zilch, nought, nothing, none. So WTF "evidence" do you think will help when there is no crime involved?

7. You don't have Kyle on video committing murder, that's a lie. Any jury under WI LAW would confirm in the videos that he acted in "self-defense". The rioters were the aggressors.

 

[JoeB131]

1. The answer is "we don't know how much Sandman got". We just don't know. But we do know that he sued many "propaganda outlets".

All of whom probably paid him "go away" money. He settled way to easy, probably because his lawyers went to the NBC's lawyers and said, "We can drag this out for years, or you can pay us off now for a fraction and we'll go away!" It's an abuse of our legal system that needs to be fixed.

2. OJ is a POS, no sense even talking about him.
What star witness perjured himself? You can't make statements without proving them.

Uh, Mark Fuhrman... the guy who claimed he never, ever used the N-word and then tapes surfaced showing him using the N-word quite a bit. When he was recalled to the stand he plead the fifth... After the case, he plead guilty to perjury and was removed from the LAPD.

Yes, OJ is a piece of shit. So is Rittenhouse.. But if the judicial system doesn't do it's job, POS's get away with murder.

3. A judge that has been doing great work since 1983 (Schroeder) is well known and well respected. Democrats don't even put up a judge to run against him. So stop whining about Schroeder.

Well, now that we see the kinds of shenanigans that go on in his court room, they'll probably rethink that, although I expect this twit will retire now that Democrats know who he is now.

4. Kyle did nothing but defend himself from dangerous criminal rioters. He was not "blasting" anyone, that is just a LIE.

Again, the standard is, you don't get to claim self-defense if you instigated the situation. You can't start a fight in a bar and then claim self-defense when you kill someone.

5. You call Kyle a "racist" with no proof. That's just another lie. All you have a lies.

You mean other than him hanging out with the racist Proud Boys.

6. Even the "preponderance" of the "evidence" needs a crime. Kyle committed no crimes, zero, nada, nil, zilch, nought, nothing, none. So WTF "evidence" do you think will help when there is no crime involved?

You don't have to be convicted of a crime to be held civilly liable.... that's the whole point. People are held civilly liable all day for their negligence or intentional actions. All they have to show is that crossing state lines with a gun and getting into the middle of a riot was negligent when he shot three people....

Again, the real problem here is that he'd be the sideshow. The real negligence was the City of Kenosha letting these thugs run amok with guns.

7. You don't have Kyle on video committing murder, that's a lie. Any jury under WI LAW would confirm in the videos that he acted in "self-defense". The rioters were the aggressors.

Any jury?

Hey, what if we had a jury that actually had black people on it? You know, instead of just one person of color.

 

[surada]

Most of those burned out businesses in Kenosha were mom and pop businesses.

They were black owned businesses.

 

[surada]

1. The answer is "we don't know how much Sandman got". We just don't know. But we do know that he sued many "propaganda outlets".

2. OJ is a POS, no sense even talking about him.
What star witness perjured himself? You can't make statements without proving them.

3. A judge that has been doing great work since 1983 (Schroeder) is well known and well respected. Democrats don't even put up a judge to run against him. So stop whining about Schroeder.

4. Kyle did nothing but defend himself from dangerous criminal rioters. He was not "blasting" anyone, that is just a LIE.

5. You call Kyle a "racist" with no proof. That's just another lie. All you have a lies.

6. Even the "preponderance" of the "evidence" needs a crime. Kyle committed no crimes, zero, nada, nil, zilch, nought, nothing, none. So WTF "evidence" do you think will help when there is no crime involved?

7. You don't have Kyle on video committing murder, that's a lie. Any jury under WI LAW would confirm in the videos that he acted in "self-defense". The rioters were the aggressors.

Kyle has said repeatedly that he supports BLM.. That must be why he had the gun and was breaking curfew.

 

[surada]

Democrats on the Sunday morning shows, as well as many others want laws changed so that law abiding citizens can't defend themselves from criminals.
In SF gangs of looters emptied Louis Vitton and other high-end stores. What if Louis hired a few armed vigilantes?
In Philadelphia, a mom and baby were killed coming home from a baby shower,
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRAT'S OUTRAGE???????????????.

Pregnant Woman Shot, Killed Returning Home From Her Baby Shower, Philadelphia Police Say

A pregnant woman is dead after a shooting in the Crescentville section of Philadelphia.

philadelphia.cbslocal.com

NYC Mayor DeBlasio said the Rittenhouse verdict "sends a horrible message"...
De Blasio joins NY’s left in raging over Kyle Rittenhouse — as NYPD on alert for potential unrest
“This verdict is disgusting and it sends a horrible message to this country. Where is the justice in this,” de Blasio tweeted after the 18-year-old defendant was cleared of all charges in the deaths of two men and the wounding of a third during racially charged violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in 2020."

Biden, Adams, Sharpton and others weigh in on Rittenhouse verdict

The acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse in a Kenosha, Wis., courtroom sparked plenty of opinions on Friday — divided in the same way the country is. The baby-faced gunman, who killed two men and wounded a third at a Black Lives Matter protest last year, was hailed as a hero in right-wing circles...

news.yahoo.com

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) tweeted, “It’s time to dismantle systemic racism & fundamentally transform our broken justice system.”

California Gov. Gavin Newsom worried about the precedent set by the Rittenhouse case.
“America today: you can break the law, carry around weapons built for a military, shoot and kill people, and get away with it,” the Democrat tweeted. “That’s the message we’ve just sent to armed vigilantes across the nation.”


What if neighborhoods organized vigilantes to shoot criminals in their neighborhoods, today's version of a "well regulated militia"? Would urban gang shootings stop?

Lets take a poll on what should happen when pols and DAs stop police from arresting and prosecuting violent criminals.

Should vigilantes fill the gap and protect neighborhoods from criminals?

[The OP and thread title are now better aligned, sorry for the closure of the first thread discussion]

Vigilantes and lynch mobs just lead to more vigilantes and lynch mobs. Maybe we are done. Maybe we're sinking into depravity and violence.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Being in danger is not necessary, only believing you are matters, that is the problem with self-defense. If Gaige shot Kyle and claimed self-defense how could the State prove that he didn't feel threatened?

The determination is not that Kyle felt threatened, but that a reasonable person would feel threatened.