Why do some Democrats want to pass new laws against violent crime, intead of enforcing the laws that are already on the books?

[miketx]

I wonder what democrat voters like @Mac1958 have to say about this?

He says what they all say, "Trump.........!"

 

[Mac-7]

He says what they all say, "Trump.........!"

Probably so

 

[Mac-7]

If dems pass new laws they can selectively enforce them against whites while overlooking black criminals

 

[miketx]

If dems pass new laws they can selectively enforce them against whites while overlooking black criminals

Like they are doing now.

 

[Rigby5]

Some violent people just belong behind bars. It is that simple.

Wrong.
Senseless violence is not for the prison system, but mental health.
Maybe they should be locked up, but in a mental health facility, not a prison.

 

[kyzr]

Wrong.
Senseless violence is not for the prison system, but mental health.
Maybe they should be locked up, but in a mental health facility, not a prison.

Locked-up is locked-up, a rose by any other name...

 

[Rigby5]

Locked-up is locked-up, a rose by any other name...

You want prison to be a deterrent,
You want a mental hospital to treat.

 

[kyzr]

You want prison to be a deterrent,
You want a mental hospital to treat.

OK, so who pays for all these new mental hospitals? Who staffs them? Are they covered under Obamacare?
Sooner or later they will be called inhumane and closed, and the patients turned loose.
We've seen this movie before.

 

[Rigby5]

OK, so who pays for all these new mental hospitals? Who staffs them? Are they covered under Obamacare?
Sooner or later they will be called inhumane and closed, and the patients turned loose.
We've seen this movie before.

All the mental hospitals that could have prevented all these school and other shooting all still exist, but were closed by Reagan.
We just have to open them back up.
They are cheaper than prisons.
Saves money.
And when you mix prisoners with the criminally insane, they are never going to be rehabilitated, but come out crazy as well as still criminals.

The shock therapy from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" was never a good idea.
Having mental health hospitals does not mean they have to be outdated or abusive.

 

[beautress]

Wrong.
Senseless violence is not for the prison system, but mental health.
Maybe they should be locked up, but in a mental health facility, not a prison.

Criminally insane do not mix well with generally insane. The cost is untenable. If we did mix them together, we are no better than those who put sick covid patients in old folk homes that caused the death of all the old people in some New York facilities because covid is far more lethal to the retired community that criminally insane of younger ages who commit most all of the deadly crimes. Most severely criminally insane people never make it to old age, because someone on the street or in the courts puts them away or places them in prisons where they cannot harm themselves or others.

 

[Not a Monkeys Uncle]

Why do some Democrats want to pass new laws against violent crime, intead of enforcing the laws that are already on the books?

Because they want to re-define "crime". To them, crime is being a conservative, or speaking your opinion freely, or using the wrong pronoun.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

All the mental hospitals that could have prevented all these school and other shooting all still exist, but were closed by Reagan.
We just have to open them back up.
They are cheaper than prisons.
Saves money.
And when you mix prisoners with the criminally insane, they are never going to be rehabilitated, but come out crazy as well as still criminals.

The shock therapy from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" was never a good idea.
Having mental health hospitals does not mean they have to be outdated or abusive.

They were closed by Reagan because Jimmy Carter signed into law that mentally ill people needed to be with family, so those institutions were empty and to save money closed down. But we see the end results of allowing mentally ill people to roam with the normal people.

 

[Rigby5]

Criminally insane do not mix well with generally insane. The cost is untenable. If we did mix them together, we are no better than those who put sick covid patients in old folk homes that caused the death of all the old people in some New York facilities because covid is far more lethal to the retired community that criminally insane of younger ages who commit most all of the deadly crimes. Most severely criminally insane people never make it to old age, because someone on the street or in the courts puts them away or places them in prisons where they cannot harm themselves or others.

Who said anything about mixing the criminally insane with the generally insane?
The generally insane, who are not criminals, should not be locked up at all, and therefore would never get mixed with the criminally insane.

The POINT is that the whole concept of criminal justice is to provide a prison deterrent so that people do not repeat crimes in the future.
But if you mix criminals who you want to rehabilitate with punishment, with criminally insane people who are impossible to rehabilitate, you prevent rehabilitation.

This is nothing like mixing covid patients with NY elderly facilities, because elderly facilities are the most susceptible and should have been totally quarantined.
And the virus can easily be transmitter between residents by the staff, even if the residents themselves are kept isolated.
Nothing like that can happen with the criminally insane.
It is easy to isolate them from the insane who are not criminals.

 

[struth]

Who said anything about mixing the criminally insane with the generally insane?
The generally insane, who are not criminals, should not be locked up at all, and therefore would never get mixed with the criminally insane.

The POINT is that the whole concept of criminal justice is to provide a prison deterrent so that people do not repeat crimes in the future.
But if you mix criminals who you want to rehabilitate with punishment, with criminally insane people who are impossible to rehabilitate, you prevent rehabilitation.

This is nothing like mixing covid patients with NY elderly facilities, because elderly facilities are the most susceptible and should have been totally quarantined.
And the virus can easily be transmitter between residents by the staff, even if the residents themselves are kept isolated.
Nothing like that can happen with the criminally insane.
It is easy to isolate them from the insane who are not criminals.

If someone is found not guilty by reason of insanity they aren't put into prisons.

Try again.

 

[Rigby5]

If someone is found not guilty by reason of insanity they aren't put into prisons.

Try again.

Wrong.
We are NOT talking about someone who is found not guilty due to temporary insanity.
Someone who is found guilty due to permanent insanity, most definitely IS put into our prison system.
We no longer have separate facilities for the criminally insane in most states, or any federal institutions, so there is no where else to put anyone who is dangerous, no matter the cause.

 

[Rigby5]

They were closed by Reagan because Jimmy Carter signed into law that mentally ill people needed to be with family, so those institutions were empty and to save money closed down. But we see the end results of allowing mentally ill people to roam with the normal people.

There is no such bill by Jimmy Carter, and presidents can't ever pass bills.
Those mental health institutions were not empty when Reagan pushed them all out into the street.

 

[struth]

Wrong.
We are NOT talking about someone who is found not guilty due to temporary insanity.
Someone who is found guilty due to permanent insanity, most definitely IS put into our prison system.
We no longer have separate facilities for the criminally insane in most states, or any federal institutions, so there is no where else to put anyone who is dangerous, no matter the cause.

If someone is insane at the time of the offense they can't be found guilty and put in prison

If you are talking about someone with mental health issues, that commits a crime...well most criminals have some sort of mental health issues.

The point of prison, and the criminal justice system, is threefold...punishment, rehabilitation, and to deter.

I certainly, don't disagree that more mental health should be allocated, and most states, and the federal Govt also have specific prisons for folks with major issues...but more funds could be given..don't disagree on that....but just having some mental health issues isn't a get out of jail free card for whatever crime you committed.

 

[Rigby5]

If someone is insane at the time of the offense they can't be found guilty and put in prison

If you are talking about someone with mental health issues, that commits a crime...well most criminals have some sort of mental health issues.

The point of prison, and the criminal justice system, is threefold...punishment, rehabilitation, and to deter.

I certainly, don't disagree that more mental health should be allocated, and most states, and the federal Govt also have specific prisons for folks with major issues...but more funds could be given..don't disagree on that....but just having some mental health issues isn't a get out of jail free card for whatever crime you committed.

Wrong.
Everyone who commits a crime without a profit motive, like a school shooting, obvious is criminally insane.
And they get put into prisons because that is the only place we have any more, with appropriate security.
The only people we do not put into prison are those found not guilty due to a temporary extreme emotion that would not be likely to ever happen again.
For example, if they are so retarded they did not even realize they were committing a crime, we still imprison them.

The point of the prison and criminal justice system is supposed to be ONLY to protect others.
And punishment, rehabilitation, and deterrence are all the same thing.
To get the person to not repeat their criminal act, so everyone else is safer.

But if you put those who can not be rehabilitated in to prison, as we now are doing, that is no longer going to work.
If you put normal criminals in with psychotics, under the stress of prison, the psychotics will teach them all how to be psychotic.

My point is not to let criminals out, but to separate those who can be rehabilitated from those who can not.
And it is pointless and cruel to punish those who can not be rehabilitated.
They should just be kept in nice isolation, probably forever.
Criminals who can be rehabilitated should not have it nice, but should be let out as soon as possible.
You can't mix them.
Mixing them is both counter productive and unethically cruel.

 

[struth]

Wrong.
Everyone who commits a crime without a profit motive, like a school shooting, obvious is criminally insane.
And they get put into prisons because that is the only place we have any more, with appropriate security.
The only people we do not put into prison are those found not guilty due to a temporary extreme emotion that would not be likely to ever happen again.
For example, if they are so retarded they did not even realize they were committing a crime, we still imprison them.

The point of the prison and criminal justice system is supposed to be ONLY to protect others.
And punishment, rehabilitation, and deterrence are all the same thing.
To get the person to not repeat their criminal act, so everyone else is safer.

But if you put those who can not be rehabilitated in to prison, as we now are doing, that is no longer going to work.
If you put normal criminals in with psychotics, under the stress of prison, the psychotics will teach them all how to be psychotic.

My point is not to let criminals out, but to separate those who can be rehabilitated from those who can not.
And it is pointless and cruel to punish those who can not be rehabilitated.
They should just be kept in nice isolation, probably forever.
Criminals who can be rehabilitated should not have it nice, but should be let out as soon as possible.
You can't mix them.
Mixing them is both counter productive and unethically cruel.

No they aren't...or they would be found not guilty by reason of insanity...if they were criminally insane.

That's just a silly comment and not based in reality...some folks do it because they simply are bad people, serial abusers, bullies, etc. Not for profit, or because they are criminally insane.

 

[whitehall]

Typical democrat party solution, pump more money into federal agencies that have failed us in the past. Biden's solution to inner city violence is to fund the agency that is in charge of hunting down illegal alcohol stills in the woods, collecting confiscatory tax on tobacco sales and oh yeah, firearms. The same agency that set the scenario that caused Randy Weaver's teenage son to be shot in the back and killed and his wife to be shot in the face while she was holding an 18 month old child in her arms, the same agency that set the scenario for 80 men, women and children to be gassed and incinerated in Waco, Tx and oh yeah the same agency that came up with the brilliant idea to ship thousands of illegal weapons to Mexican drug cartels. Let's go Brandon.