Dems want Laws changed after Rittenhouse shootings. Are vigilantes the answer? (Poll)

[kyzr]

Uh, guy, 83% of gun homicides are people who are shot by family members, friends or neighbors.
And for every gun homicide you have two gun suicides.

1. 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders, say "gang members", not family members or friends.

2. Suicides are not part of the discussion, they would happen anyway by other means.

Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

African Americans suffer a disproportionate share of firearm homicides. African Americans, who were only 13% of the U.S. population in 2010, were 55% of the victims of gun homicide. In 2017 African American boys and men aged 15 to 34 years were the most frequent victims of firearm homicide in the United States with a staggering 81 deaths per 100,000 population. Non-Hispanic whites were 65% of the U.S. population in 2010, but only 25% of the victims. Hispanics were 16% of the population in 2010 and 17% of victims.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1980 to 2008, 84% of white homicide victims were killed by white offenders and 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders.

3. Going back to the "gun control" discussion. US urban blacks have much higher crime rates than other urban populations in the EU. The latest US crime sprees are robberies at gunpoint and "flash mobs" which they don't have in the EU. Since urban DAs don't prosecute those crimes. Which is why people are leaving crime ridden cities for safer areas.

 

[easyt65]

Which countries are those? Name them?

Here's the thing. Our Peer Group are the G-7 countries - Canada, Germany, UK, France, Italy, and Japan.

None of those countries locks up more than 100,000 people. They also severely limit who can own a gun. And for 2TinyGuy's edification, most of them have an out of wedlock birth rate that is as high as ours. In fact, France has a OOW birth rate of 60%

Infographic: Where babies are born outside of marriage

This chart shows the share of babies born outside of marriage in EU countries.

www.statista.com

Now if prisons and guns were the answer, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the G-7, not the highest.



Uh, guy, we already have a Prison Industrial Complex, where prison labor is used more extensively than the ineffective chain gang.

Seriously, you clowns talk about prisons like they are resorts or something.

The countries you named have lower crime due partly to their culture...

 

[JoeB131]

1. 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders, say "gang members", not family members or friends.

yes, we know you are a racist,and you can pull this bullshit number out of your ass.

2. Suicides are not part of the discussion, they would happen anyway by other means.

Would they? Seems to me that other methods of suicide would be a lot more trouble.

 

[Turtlesoup]

They were there for the protest, not to protect anyone. It was Kyle to traveled to the protest with the goal to be a vigilante.

Kyle did nothing wrong----

The protestors, criminals looting and attacking people, needed to be stopped. It's a pity that certain people can't get this moral through their tiny heads.

 

[JoeB131]

The countries you named have lower crime due partly to their culture...

If you mean, not letting their citizens own guns as part of a culture, yes.

If you mean, Not having babies out of wedlock, not so much.

So again, let's look at the five drivers I mentioned.

Racism- Well, true, most of those countries are mono-cultures. The exceptions being France and the UK, which have large non-white populations but not the history of slavery and segregation we have had.

Poverty - We allow a staggering amount of poverty for such a rich nation, these countries have extensive social welfare programs.

Mental Illness - they have extensive treatment programs and universal health care. We cross the street to avoid the scary homeless guy.

Drug Addiction - They treat addiction as a medical issue. We treat it as a criminal one.

Gun Proliferation - Some ban guns completely (Japan, the UK), others have limited and strictly regulated gun ownership (Germany, France, Canada). We have a gun industry that insists every crazy person needs him an arsenal of military grade weapons to fights us the gummit.

 

[JoeB131]

Kyle did nothing wrong----

The protestors, criminals looting and attacking people, needed to be stopped. It's a pity that certain people can't get this moral through their tiny heads.

What needs to stop is police misconduct. The riots stopped because they are holding cops accountable.

 

[kyzr]

yes, we know you are a racist,and you can pull this bullshit number out of your ass.

See my post #561 for the link to this statement:
"According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1980 to 2008, 84% of white homicide victims were killed by white offenders and 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders."

So the question is, are the 93% of black males killed gang related or murders by "family and friends"?
It seems obvious to me that its urban and gang related.

You never put up a link to prove that 83% of black on black murders are by "friends and family".

 

[iceberg]

Anyone else want to sacrifice their lives and freedom to protect some corporate storefront from damage?

yet you don't care about the criminals who do it. you're simply attacking those who have had enough of it.

typical of an asshole.

 

[2aguy]

Hey, DickTiny, did you know that most European Nations have a higher Out of Wedlock BIrth Rate than the US?

Infographic: Where babies are born outside of marriage

This chart shows the share of babies born outside of marriage in EU countries.

www.statista.com

France has an out of wedlock birthrate of 60%!!! So by the logic you've just stated, France should be overrun with crime!!!

Oh, wait, it isn't. How can this be?

So let's roll that beautiful bean footage of the other G-7 Countries.

France - 60%
UK - 47%
USA - 40%
Germany - 34%
Italy -34%
Canada - 30%
Japan - >1%

So by your logic, if the source of crime is unmarried parents, France and the UK have much higher rates and most of the other G-7 Countries aren't far behind.

The exception is Japan, where Gender equality is nowhere near what it is in the west.

Go into the no go zones and you will find crime...

The U.S. started losing control of our fatherless homes in the 1960s you dumb ass.....World War 2 put Europe back about 40 years...they are now catching up....which is why their crime is going up...

What is behind the increase in gang violence in France?​

The most recent killing to shake France was that of Aymane, 15, who was shot in the troubled Seine-Saint-Denis suburbs outside Paris on February 26. He was the third teenager in less than a week to have died in gang violence in the Paris suburbs – with the alleged perpetrators, two brothers aged 17 and 27, charged on March 1.

This came just a few days after two 14-year-olds, a boy and a girl, were killed in the suburban county of Essonne to the other side of Paris. They were stabbed to death in two different brawls between young people from rival gangs.

“It’s not surprising that the most serious problems take place during the school holidays, because during this time they have to go without the forms of social support they usually rely on, such as sport clubs and youth centres,” Yazid Kherfi, a former robber who turned away from crime and has worked in youth crime prevention since 2012, told FRANCE 24.

What is behind the increase in gang violence in France?

France has been alarmed over recent weeks by a spate of killings of young people in gang violence in the Paris region during the school holidays. Experts say that the role of social media and the economic…

www.france24.com

 

[2aguy]

See my post #561 for the link to this statement:
"According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1980 to 2008, 84% of white homicide victims were killed by white offenders and 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders."

So the question is, are the 93% of black males killed gang related or murders by "family and friends"?
It seems obvious to me that its urban and gang related.

You never put up a link to prove that 83% of black on black murders are by "friends and family".

Joe won't....because what he lied about is this....the term isn't "Friends and family," which he knows, it is by an acquaintance.........and an acquaintance is simply someone you know.......the other gang member, the drug dealer the drug buyer.......joe knows this but doesn't want people to know....

 

[2aguy]

Hey, DickTiny, did you know that most European Nations have a higher Out of Wedlock BIrth Rate than the US?

Infographic: Where babies are born outside of marriage

This chart shows the share of babies born outside of marriage in EU countries.

www.statista.com

France has an out of wedlock birthrate of 60%!!! So by the logic you've just stated, France should be overrun with crime!!!

Oh, wait, it isn't. How can this be?

So let's roll that beautiful bean footage of the other G-7 Countries.

France - 60%
UK - 47%
USA - 40%
Germany - 34%
Italy -34%
Canada - 30%
Japan - >1%

So by your logic, if the source of crime is unmarried parents, France and the UK have much higher rates and most of the other G-7 Countries aren't far behind.

The exception is Japan, where Gender equality is nowhere near what it is in the west.

Dipshit...

Murders in greater Paris include school-age children being shot and stabbed to death, with juvenile mobs fighting over turf space being ultimately blamed for the horror.

The trouble is also extending outwards, from the high-rise urban estates into the countryside.

Spike in France gang violence is 'chilling consequence' of lockdowns

In her monthly Connexion column, award-winning journalist Nabila Ramdani talks about how a rise in gang violence and the Covid-19 lockdowns in France can be linked

www.connexionfrance.com

 

[2aguy]

1. 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders, say "gang members", not family members or friends.

2. Suicides are not part of the discussion, they would happen anyway by other means.

Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

African Americans suffer a disproportionate share of firearm homicides. African Americans, who were only 13% of the U.S. population in 2010, were 55% of the victims of gun homicide. In 2017 African American boys and men aged 15 to 34 years were the most frequent victims of firearm homicide in the United States with a staggering 81 deaths per 100,000 population. Non-Hispanic whites were 65% of the U.S. population in 2010, but only 25% of the victims. Hispanics were 16% of the population in 2010 and 17% of victims.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1980 to 2008, 84% of white homicide victims were killed by white offenders and 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders.

3. Going back to the "gun control" discussion. US urban blacks have much higher crime rates than other urban populations in the EU. The latest US crime sprees are robberies at gunpoint and "flash mobs" which they don't have in the EU. Since urban DAs don't prosecute those crimes. Which is why people are leaving crime ridden cities for safer areas.

Keep in mind....Andrew Klavan, I think it was him, from the Daily Wire pointed out that the 13% number is misleading...because that is all blacks in America. Young Black males only make up 7% of that population and it is those young males doing all of that shooting and killing...

7% of the population and young black males are responsible for over 50% of the murders, and they are also the majority of the victims....

 

[2aguy]

The countries you named have lower crime due partly to their culture...

Yep....a culture frozen in time for decades because of the societal destruction of World War 2.......the democrats in this country were destroying our black families in the 1960s......the European welfare state was set back in the destruction of their families because of that war....

 

[2aguy]

What needs to stop is police misconduct. The riots stopped because they are holding cops accountable.

No....you dipshit...the riots stopped because the election was over....you idiot.

 

[JoeB131]

See my post #561 for the link to this statement:
"According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1980 to 2008, 84% of white homicide victims were killed by white offenders and 93% of black homicide victims were killed by black offenders."

So the question is, are the 93% of black males killed gang related or murders by "family and friends"?
It seems obvious to me that its urban and gang related.

Yes, they are mostly killed by families and friends, just like the 84% of white people who are killed by members of their own race. Thanks for pointing that out. Now, if you can do it without being a racist douchenoodle, you might make some progress.

Go into the no go zones and you will find crime...

Ah, the mythical "No-Go" zones. Here, try to read something that isn't Faux News.

The Myth of No-Go Zones - The Geopolitics

You might have heard the term no-go zones, a vague concept often used to describe the idea of an unsafe part of a community. Often, the term is used to

thegeopolitics.com

The U.S. started losing control of our fatherless homes in the 1960s you dumb ass.....World War 2 put Europe back about 40 years...they are now catching up....which is why their crime is going up...

Joe won't....because what he lied about is this....the term isn't "Friends and family," which he knows, it is by an acquaintance.........and an acquaintance is simply someone you know.......the other gang member, the drug dealer the drug buyer.......joe knows this but doesn't want people to know....

So you think these rival gangs all hang out together and are bros? Um. No.
Most murders are friends and family.. because frankly, it takes friends and family to really piss people off.

Dipshit...

Murders in greater Paris include school-age children being shot and stabbed to death, with juvenile mobs fighting over turf space being ultimately blamed for the horror.

Number of homicides in France - 779 (264 with guns.)
Number of homicides in the US - 18,913 (14,389 with guns)

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What needs to stop is police misconduct. The riots stopped because they are holding cops accountable.

Holding criminals accountable would be much more effective.

You don't want that, because you are a criminal yourself, and you do not want to be held accountable for your crimes. You want law enforcement to be “held accountable”, to leave you and your subhuman kind more free to prey on law-abiding human beings.

 

[bripat9643]

Democrats on the Sunday morning shows, as well as many others want laws changed so that law abiding citizens can't defend themselves from criminals.
In SF gangs of looters emptied Louis Vitton and other high-end stores. What if Louis hired a few armed vigilantes?
In Philadelphia, a mom and baby were killed coming home from a baby shower,
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRAT'S OUTRAGE???????????????.

Pregnant Woman Shot, Killed Returning Home From Her Baby Shower, Philadelphia Police Say

A pregnant woman is dead after a shooting in the Crescentville section of Philadelphia.

philadelphia.cbslocal.com

NYC Mayor DeBlasio said the Rittenhouse verdict "sends a horrible message"...
De Blasio joins NY’s left in raging over Kyle Rittenhouse — as NYPD on alert for potential unrest
“This verdict is disgusting and it sends a horrible message to this country. Where is the justice in this,” de Blasio tweeted after the 18-year-old defendant was cleared of all charges in the deaths of two men and the wounding of a third during racially charged violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in 2020."

Biden, Adams, Sharpton and others weigh in on Rittenhouse verdict

The acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse in a Kenosha, Wis., courtroom sparked plenty of opinions on Friday — divided in the same way the country is. The baby-faced gunman, who killed two men and wounded a third at a Black Lives Matter protest last year, was hailed as a hero in right-wing circles...

news.yahoo.com

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) tweeted, “It’s time to dismantle systemic racism & fundamentally transform our broken justice system.”

California Gov. Gavin Newsom worried about the precedent set by the Rittenhouse case.
“America today: you can break the law, carry around weapons built for a military, shoot and kill people, and get away with it,” the Democrat tweeted. “That’s the message we’ve just sent to armed vigilantes across the nation.”


What if neighborhoods organized vigilantes to shoot criminals in their neighborhoods, today's version of a "well regulated militia"? Would urban gang shootings stop?

Lets take a poll on what should happen when pols and DAs stop police from arresting and prosecuting violent criminals.

Should vigilantes fill the gap and protect neighborhoods from criminals?

[The OP and thread title are now better aligned, sorry for the closure of the first thread discussion]

You can't shoot people for stealing, but you can wrestle them to the ground and slap some cuffs on them.

 

[2aguy]

Yes, they are mostly killed by families and friends, just like the 84% of white people who are killed by members of their own race. Thanks for pointing that out. Now, if you can do it without being a racist douchenoodle, you might make some progress.



Ah, the mythical "No-Go" zones. Here, try to read something that isn't Faux News.

The Myth of No-Go Zones - The Geopolitics

You might have heard the term no-go zones, a vague concept often used to describe the idea of an unsafe part of a community. Often, the term is used to

thegeopolitics.com

So you think these rival gangs all hang out together and are bros? Um. No.
Most murders are friends and family.. because frankly, it takes friends and family to really piss people off.


Number of homicides in France - 779 (264 with guns.)
Number of homicides in the US - 18,913 (14,389 with guns)

This is a lie by omission.....you have always been called out when you used the term "acquaintance" murder because you know it means the rival gang member murdering the other gang member...they know each other...dittos, the drug dealer killed by the drug user, the one criminal murdering the other criminal...so you now drop "acquaintance...."

The most accurate crime statistics involve homicides, particularly murders. The most easily solved homicides are murders of passion between intimates. The hardest homicides to solve are those where there is no connection between the murderer and the victim.

The largest category of victims in the FBI reports of victim relationships to their murderer is unknown.

In 2019, those victims are 49% of the total.

It is a huge number. Some of this is because FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) are often filed before an investigation is complete. As murders of passion among intimates are the easiest to solve, this means a much higher percentage of strangers and acquaintances fall into the unknown category when the UCR report is filled out.

The clearance rate for murder in 2019 was 59%. This means 41% were not solved. About 84% of the murderers who are unknown by the time of the UCR report remain unknown. It is likely most of the 16% solved are not intimate partner murders. Those that are, are unlikely to have been living with their victim.

The clearance rate for murder in 2020 dropped to 54.4%.

So-Called Known Murderers​

The next largest category of murderers is acquaintances. It is 20%. These are included in people you “know”.

The slightest connection to you counts as you “knowing” them. The gang-banger who was in your remedial English class in community college, the drug dealer you filed a report about, the laborer who cleaned up your neighbor’s yard, the person who involved you in a fender-bender, the high school classmate who was always in trouble, are all counted as an acquaintance. So are addicts’ suppliers, criminals’ associates, and members of a gang.

The next largest category is members of the immediate family. They are 11%. This is who most people place in the category as “known”. This includes estranged and ex-family, such as ex-wives and ex-husband.

Then come strangers, at 10%. These are the hardest murderers to catch.

• Boyfriend/girlfriend is at 5%. This includes ex-boyfriend/girlfriends.
• Other family is 2%.
• Friends are at 2%.
• Neighbors are 1%

Employers/employees are just a trace, at .16%, too small to show up on the chart.

Acquaintances Aren’t Family​

To create the misleading statistic that most murderers are “known” to their victim, those who want you to believe self-defense is futile, include acquaintance with family, friends, and neighbors.

Then to inflate the “known” numbers, they assume the murderers who are unknown have the same percentage of immediate family and relationships as those where the relationship is known. It is a bad assumption.

Applying the misleading math used by Gun Control Advocates to the 2019 figures creates that false figure that 80% of murderers are “known” to their victims.


A more realistic appraisal is unknown, stranger, and acquaintance categories make up 79% of murderers. Of the remaining 21%, a large number are ex-spouses, ex-boyfriend/girlfriends, and estranged family and friends.

The numbers of exes and estranged are not reported. A great many domestic homicides occur between ex-spouses, ex-boyfriends/girlfriends, and estranged others.

It is likely the number of people who murder someone living with them, when determined, will be less than 10% of the total.

More and more people are effectively defending themselves against people they know who have become deadly enemies.

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/12/misleading-murderer-you-know-lie-latest-data/#axzz7ENTeigcG

 

[2aguy]

You can't shoot people for stealing, but you can wrestle them to the ground and slap some cuffs on them.

Why? Why would you put your families well being and your freedom at risk by physically engaging with a thief?

 

[JoeB131]

Holding criminals accountable would be much more effective.

You don't want that, because you are a criminal yourself, and you do not want to be held accountable for your crimes. You want law enforcement to be “held accountable”, to leave you and your subhuman kind more free to prey on law-abiding human beings.

We lock up 2 million people
We have 7 million on probation or parole

Yes, I want the police held accountable, but our reforms have to go beyond the police.

Look, we realize you belong to a bloodthirsty cult, but our punitive approach isn't working. I mean, you could make an argument if what you guys were doing was actually, you know, working. But it isn't. It's actually MAKING THE PROBLEM WORSE.