Dems want Laws changed after Rittenhouse shootings. Are vigilantes the answer? (Poll)

[dudmuck]

This is not the wild west. Civil and criminal liability is a thing now.

oh really..

 

[jc456]

Quite the contrary, if the jury had heard about how he beat up a teen girl, they might not think he was just some innocent waif defending himself. The judge in that case pretty much tied an anchor around the neck of the prosecutors, while allowing evidence of Rosenbaum's mental issues to come in.

how does this pertain to the events of that night?

 

[jc456]

Again, I am still waiting for you to prove ANYTHING I've said about your cult as being factually incorrect. Particularly the life of Con-Artist Pedophile Joseph Smith.

The government didn't kill the Branch Davidians, they killed themselves. THREE SEPARATE investigations made that finding.

That said, I will criticize how they handled that siege.

Playing loud music and animal noises to try to unsettle them was a bad idea. They were already nuts, no point in making them crazier. Storming the building with tear gas was an awful idea.

They should have just waited them out. Eventually they'd have run out of food.

But here's the thing. The heads of the ATF and FBI were fired after that. They were held accountable.

well there is this,

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Bob Blaylock]

self defense again. you [Incel Joe] sure have issues with that don't you?

Criminals usually do. They prefer prey that are defenseless, unable to fight back.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Funny, because the supply chain disruptions the left talk bout are because of COVID. I guess you don't agree with that assessment.

It needs to be pointed out, that all the various social and economic damage that has happened “because of COVID” did not really happen because of the virus or the disease. All of it happened because of the powers that we have allowed criminals and tyrants in government to seize and abuse, using COVID as an excuse. The actual disease never had the potential to cause nearly as much harm to us, as individuals or as a society, as corrupt government has caused us under the fraudulent pretext of protecting us from it.

 

[JoeB131]

There are 10mil police interactions in the US so 1000 is a tiny % of shootings ...

I am going to try to engage in a thoughtful conversation with you here.

On balance, I agree, The number of police encounters that go sideways is relatively small. But it's still too many.

Would you fly on an airline that boasted that 99% of it's flights don't end in fiery crashes?
Would you buy a product that doesn't poison it's customers 99% of the time?

Of course, you wouldn't, you'd insist on 100% and rightfully so.

That said, mistakes happen. But then what you need is transparency and accountability. Don't lie to the public for months about what happened. Hold people accountable if their behavior was truly egregious.

and the countries you mentioned don’t have tough places like Baltimore, Chicago, NYC, LA, etc. where crime rates are high.

Okay, but then you have to ask yourself WHY those places don't have high crime rates.

Well, they have strong social programs where people aren't starving.
They treat addiction like a medical issue instead of a criminal one.
They have programs to treat the mentally ill, instead of letting them dangerously wander the streets.
and, oh, yeah, the big one... they don't let any fool who wants a gun get one.

Now yes, some of them don't have the racial diversity we have, such as Japan, but for the most part they prevent the crime from ever happening before they have to worry that a cop is going to let his response to a situation spiral out of control.

 

[JoeB131]

Was the jury made aware of the victim's past indiscretions? To my knowledge, the judge only allowed bad behavior of Rittenhouse or any of his victims that night to be presented.

His victims weren't on trial.

The fact that Rosenbaum served time 20 years ago for molesting another kid when he was a kid wasn't relevant. The fact that Rittenhouse beat the crap out of a teenage girl was in that it shows he already had a propensity for violence. Also left out was that he liked to hang out with the Proud Boys.

And while the judge did exclude evidence of what a little shit Rittenhouse is, he let the defense sneak in stuff about Rosenbaum's mental illness.

Funny, because the supply chain disruptions the left talk bout are because of COVID. I guess you don't agree with that assessment.

Nope. But I actually have worked in supply chain most of my adult life, so I actually understand the problem. Covid was part of the issue. So was Trump's trade policies, which forced companies to move their operations out of China to other third world countries (as opposed to moving them back to the US, which was the desired effect.)

For instance, the biggest beneficiary of Trump's Trade War was Vietnam. (You know, the place Trump avoided going to because of Bone Spurs). Except that Vietnam hasn't spent the money on infrastructure to move product from a factory in Hanoi to the port at Haiphong in an efficient manner.

Right now, the ports are putting an emphasis on unloading products for Target and Amazon over manufacturers who need components. Good because Christmas won't suck, but it's going to bite us in the ass in a few months when production lines start slowing.

The answer to not allowing people to loot stores is to close the stores? Yeah, that make a lot of sense.

Or redesign the stores where they aren't so easy to loot. The problem with most store security is that it is set up around catching a shoplifter in the act, not so much a mob stealing a bunch of stuff in a coordinated attack.

Now, I'm not a security expert, but here are some of the things I might do.
1) Make it easier to secure the entrances when it is clear a looting incident is in progress. Lock the place down until the cops arrive.
2) Use preventive intelligence... These thieves are effectively using social media to coordinate these crimes, counter with more scrutiny of such accounts.

There is no reasonable discussion to be had. There is no white people welfare. You don't want to use percentages because they destroy your already ridiculous claim.

Even if you don't count middle class entitlements as welfare (which you should because they are) even the majority of people on poverty relief programs are in fact, white.

Of course, we spend 2.5 Trillion on entitlements and only 600 billion on "welfare", so we spend a lot more money keeping white people from becoming poor than keeping people of color out of destitution.

 

[JoeB131]

It needs to be pointed out, that all the various social and economic damage that has happened “because of COVID” did not really happen because of the virus or the disease. All of it happened because of the powers that we have allowed criminals and tyrants in government to seize and abuse, using COVID as an excuse. The actual disease never had the potential to cause nearly as much harm to us, as individuals or as a society, as corrupt government has caused us under the fraudulent pretext of protecting us from it.

Try to pay attention, Mormon Bob, Cleetus and I were specifically talking about SUPPLY CHAIN from outside the US.

The fact is, Covid disrupted those supply chains as well, because even though there weren't any democrats running the factories in Taiwan and Vietnam, they were still disrupted by Covid work stoppages.

Case in point... in Taiwan, they rely heavily on importing factory workers from Vietnam and the Philippines. Except with Covid, there were travel lockdowns and they couldn't import those temporary workers.

What, Covid was real in other parts of the world?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I am going to try to engage in a thoughtful conversation with you here.

On balance, I agree, The number of police encounters that go sideways is relatively small. But it's still too many.

Would you fly on an airline that boasted that 99% of it's flights don't end in fiery crashes?
Would you buy a product that doesn't poison it's customers 99% of the time?

Of course, you wouldn't, you'd insist on 100% and rightfully so.

That said, mistakes happen. But then what you need is transparency and accountability. Don't lie to the public for months about what happened. Hold people accountable if their behavior was truly egregious.



Okay, but then you have to ask yourself WHY those places don't have high crime rates.

Well, they have strong social programs where people aren't starving.
They treat addiction like a medical issue instead of a criminal one.
They have programs to treat the mentally ill, instead of letting them dangerously wander the streets.
and, oh, yeah, the big one... they don't let any fool who wants a gun get one.

Now yes, some of them don't have the racial diversity we have, such as Japan, but for the most part they prevent the crime from ever happening before they have to worry that a cop is going to let his response to a situation spiral out of control.

But it is not 1%? It is 0.01%? Should we not take those 1000, examine them and gauge what could have gone differently? I for example would like to know how many of the 1k had a prior criminal record and if so why were they on the streets?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I am going to try to engage in a thoughtful conversation with you here.

On balance, I agree, The number of police encounters that go sideways is relatively small. But it's still too many.

Would you fly on an airline that boasted that 99% of it's flights don't end in fiery crashes?
Would you buy a product that doesn't poison it's customers 99% of the time?

Of course, you wouldn't, you'd insist on 100% and rightfully so.

That said, mistakes happen. But then what you need is transparency and accountability. Don't lie to the public for months about what happened. Hold people accountable if their behavior was truly egregious.



Okay, but then you have to ask yourself WHY those places don't have high crime rates.

Well, they have strong social programs where people aren't starving.
They treat addiction like a medical issue instead of a criminal one.
They have programs to treat the mentally ill, instead of letting them dangerously wander the streets.
and, oh, yeah, the big one... they don't let any fool who wants a gun get one.

Now yes, some of them don't have the racial diversity we have, such as Japan, but for the most part they prevent the crime from ever happening before they have to worry that a cop is going to let his response to a situation spiral out of control.

I believe it is not gun ownership but high single motherhood rates. Higher than the countries you listed, which is due to culture.

 

[JoeB131]

But it is not 1%? It is 0.01%? Should we not take those 1000, examine them and gauge what could have gone differently? I for example would like to know how many of the 1k had a prior criminal record and if so why were they on the streets?

Why should that be important at all?

The only question in this case should be, did the person present an imminent threat to the officer at the time he was shot. Period. Not "Was he convicted of some crime 20 years ago, therefore it was okay if we killed him." You don't have to shoot an honor student for it to STILL be wrong.

I believe it is not gun ownership but high single motherhood rates. Higher than the countries you listed, which is due to culture.

Nope, it really is guns.

The US has 23% of children in single parent households. While that is the highest in the world, the UK is at 21%, very close behind.

Infographic: The U.S. Has the Highest Share of Single Parenting

This chart shows the share of children under the age of 18 living with single parents around the world in 2018.

www.statista.com

Yet the UK had 600 homicides last year compared to our 20,000.

Again, has more to do with how they handle guns, mental illness, poverty relief, etc.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Why should that be important at all?

The only question in this case should be, did the person present an imminent threat to the officer at the time he was shot. Period. Not "Was he convicted of some crime 20 years ago, therefore it was okay if we killed him." You don't have to shoot an honor student for it to STILL be wrong.



Nope, it really is guns.

The US has 23% of children in single parent households. While that is the highest in the world, the UK is at 21%, very close behind.

Infographic: The U.S. Has the Highest Share of Single Parenting

This chart shows the share of children under the age of 18 living with single parents around the world in 2018.

www.statista.com

Yet the UK had 600 homicides last year compared to our 20,000.

Again, has more to do with how they handle guns, mental illness, poverty relief, etc.

UKs population is what 70mil and we have 350mil? After watching that show The Wire, I have zero clue as to how to stop urban crime. And it wasn’t just race based as the white population was corrupt via unions and such. Not sure taking guns away solves anything as the criminal element will always have access? And again it was 0.01% not 1%.

 

[JoeB131]

UKs population is what 70mil and we have 350mil? After watching that show The Wire, I have zero clue as to how to stop urban crime. And it wasn’t just race based as the white population was corrupt via unions and such. Not sure taking guns away solves anything as the criminal element will always have access? And again it was 0.01% not 1%.

You realize the Wire was fiction, right?

Now I never watched the show, but my understanding it was about the drug trade in Baltimore. Here's the thing, we treat the Drug problem as a criminal issue. Most of the rest of the world treats it like a medical issue. Addicts get treatment, people with a recreational habit are left alone. We've filled our prisons with people who weren't really harming anyone but themselves because a bunch of moral scolds needed a crusade.

So let's review... The UK has 1/5th the population of the US. (Rounding down, we don't have 350Mil, it's more like 330MM. )

So if they were at the same level we were at.

They would have 200 police involved shootings a year instead of just 5.
They would have 4000 homicides a year instead of just 600.

 

[jc456]

But it is not 1%? It is 0.01%? Should we not take those 1000, examine them and gauge what could have gone differently? I for example would like to know how many of the 1k had a prior criminal record and if so why were they on the streets?

I only have one comment, why were the cops called?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You realize the Wire was fiction, right?

Now I never watched the show, but my understanding it was about the drug trade in Baltimore. Here's the thing, we treat the Drug problem as a criminal issue. Most of the rest of the world treats it like a medical issue. Addicts get treatment, people with a recreational habit are left alone. We've filled our prisons with people who weren't really harming anyone but themselves because a bunch of moral scolds needed a crusade.

So let's review... The UK has 1/5th the population of the US. (Rounding down, we don't have 350Mil, it's more like 330MM. )

So if they were at the same level we were at.

They would have 200 police involved shootings a year instead of just 5.
They would have 4000 homicides a year instead of just 600.

The Wire is fiction but the life in Baltimore is harsh and it’s how many urban areas are. Failing schools (not one student proficient in math out of 13 High schools) and they voted for Elijah Cummings as their representative for 40 straight years. Drugs, guns, single parenthood, extreme poverty all very well laid out in the show. As well as corrupt politicians.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Quite the contrary, if the jury had heard about how he beat up a teen girl, they might not think he was just some innocent waif defending himself. The judge in that case pretty much tied an anchor around the neck of the prosecutors, while allowing evidence of Rosenbaum's mental issues to come in.



Nope, I don't listen to fox news and don't pretend the occassional organized shoplifting is a national crisis. Most of the "smash and dash" is run by organized crime. They pay people to steal and they resell the stuff. Stores just have to come up with better countermeasures.

Supply Chain Disruptions actually started with Trump's unncessary Trade war. If you worked in Supply Chain as I have, you'd know this.



We lock up 2 million people... it doesn't deter real crime, much less minor property crime. Maybe the real problem is that the brick and mortar business model is obsolete.


Sure, just let me count the 2.5 Trillion we spend on White People Welfare...errr "entitlements", and then we can have that discussion.

Did you ever look into that “beating”? I did. Rittenhouse was defending his younger sister from a bully that was attacking her.
You are really good at attacking victims. Stores get looted? It’s the store’s fault for existing. Bully gets attacked, not her fault. Supply chain problems, blame the president that was constantly attacked by the media and the opposition for five years. Too many CRIMINALS locked up. It’s society’s fault that they broke the law. White people (and black, brown, yellow and red) people collecting from programs the government forced them into paying into “entitlements”. Hey here’s a newsflash for you, my friends and I saw SS as a losing proposition way back in the mid-seventies so we took steps not to be dependent on it.

 

[jc456]

The Wire is fiction but the life in Baltimore is harsh and it’s how many urban areas are. Failing schools (not one student proficient in math out of 13 High schools) and they voted for Elijah Cummings as their representative for 40 straight years. Drugs, guns, single parenthood, extreme poverty all very well laid out in the show. As well as corrupt politicians.

All fact!

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It needs to be pointed out, that all the various social and economic damage that has happened “because of COVID” did not really happen because of the virus or the disease. All of it happened because of the powers that we have allowed criminals and tyrants in government to seize and abuse, using COVID as an excuse. The actual disease never had the potential to cause nearly as much harm to us, as individuals or as a society, as corrupt government has caused us under the fraudulent pretext of protecting us from it.

The fact is, Covid disrupted those supply chains as well, because even though there weren't any democrats running the factories in Taiwan and Vietnam, they were still disrupted by Covid work stoppages.

My point stands.

It is not COVID itself that disrupted anything.

It is abuses of power on the part of government, for which COVID was used as an excuse, that has caused these and nearly every other ill that is blamed on COVID.

The COVID virus, by itself, never had anything close to the potential to cause as much harm as the abuses perpetrated under the fraudulent guise of “protecting” us from it have caused.

What, Covid was real in other parts of the world?

Do you truly believe that the United States has a monopoly on corrupt, wannabe tyrants who are delighted by an excuse such as COVID, to seize and abuse powers that they might otherwise not be able to seize and abuse?

 

[Uriel]

oh really..

We're trying to fix that. Darrell Brooks was given a very low bail for a previous felony offense so that he could engage in his hobby of running people over. If the media succeeds in portraying him as the victim instead of those he ran over, maybe he'll get probation.

If only an officer had knelt on his neck....

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

The irony is that the real vigilantes in Kenosha were the BLM/Commie mob that tried to run down Kyle and kill him because he didn't go along with their agenda of destruction.

You finally figured out irony! Good for you!