Dems be classy

[Onyx]

But despite my objections to Trumps character and my lack in trust, I can still have hope for positive results and give him support and critique on the journey to prosperity.

False hope is what keeps the wheel spinning. It is counterproductive to those of us that really care.

Start being honest with yourself, and you can start being useful.

Straight obstruction by a group of poor losers won't result in anything good. Look what happened to Obama.

If it were not for his use of the executive order, no more shit would of been thrown my way. Whatever the politicians are peddling, I do not want it.

At some point we need to start working together

To what end?

I do not subscribe to your beliefs in endless growth and progress. That only leads to pain and suffering.

 

[Pete7469]

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Im as disappointed and shocked as the next guy about the results of this election. I always knew Trump had a shot but really hoped that the American people wouldnt elect a character like Trump to run the country. I was wrong.

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies. Please show some class and do your best to support the will of the people and rise above the petty insults that this election seemed to run on.

I've already seen a handful of Trumpsters gloating and making an effort to rub in the victory. Some are going to do that and it just shows their true colors. Don't stoop to their level, there will be plenty of others that just want to make our country better so do your best to engage in healthy substantive debate and conversations.

That's all I got

Good on you. Respect given

 

[Virginia Mom]

Im as disappointed and shocked as the next guy about the results of this election. I always knew Trump had a shot but really hoped that the American people wouldnt elect a character like Trump to run the country. I was wrong.

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies. Please show some class and do your best to support the will of the people and rise above the petty insults that this election seemed to run on.

I've already seen a handful of Trumpsters gloating and making an effort to rub in the victory. Some are going to do that and it just shows their true colors. Don't stoop to their level, there will be plenty of others that just want to make our country better so do your best to engage in healthy substantive debate and conversations.

That's all I got

I seldom post but I read a lot. For months, anyone that was voting for Trump was called stupid, an idiot, uneducated, racist, redneck, blah, blah, blah. So, when you say stooping to their level, you mean the Clinton supporters' level, correct? So many people have been on their high horse, not realizing how short their horse's legs were. True colors, funny, both sides have shown that, there were threads here already thinking they were going to rub the "trumpsters" nose in their loss, before the results were announced. You are a little too late telling them to stay classy aren't you?

 

[Slade3200]

But despite my objections to Trumps character and my lack in trust, I can still have hope for positive results and give him support and critique on the journey to prosperity.

False hope is what keeps the wheel spinning. It is counterproductive to those of us that really care.

Start being honest with yourself, and you can start being useful.

Straight obstruction by a group of poor losers won't result in anything good. Look what happened to Obama.

If it were not for his use of the executive order, no more shit would of been thrown my way. Whatever the politicians are peddling, I do not want it.

At some point we need to start working together

To what end?

I do not subscribe to your beliefs in endless growth and progress. That only leads to pain and suffering.

Don't be so dramatic, it's not an all or nothing game. Trump is going to make some mistakes and do things that YOU don't agree with. But he also has the potential to make some things better and progress our country. My whole point is that we should be objective. Critique the things you disagree with but also support and acknowledge the good things. Those who are out solely to obstruct and discredit sieve no purpose and only bog down our system. We've seen how negative it can be, just look at the past 8 years

 

[Slade3200]

Im as disappointed and shocked as the next guy about the results of this election. I always knew Trump had a shot but really hoped that the American people wouldnt elect a character like Trump to run the country. I was wrong.

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies. Please show some class and do your best to support the will of the people and rise above the petty insults that this election seemed to run on.

I've already seen a handful of Trumpsters gloating and making an effort to rub in the victory. Some are going to do that and it just shows their true colors. Don't stoop to their level, there will be plenty of others that just want to make our country better so do your best to engage in healthy substantive debate and conversations.

That's all I got

I seldom post but I read a lot. For months, anyone that was voting for Trump was called stupid, an idiot, uneducated, racist, redneck, blah, blah, blah. So, when you say stooping to their level, you mean the Clinton supporters' level, correct? So many people have been on their high horse, not realizing how short their horse's legs were. True colors, funny, both sides have shown that, there were threads here already thinking they were going to rub the "trumpsters" nose in their loss, before the results were announced. You are a little too late telling them to stay classy aren't you?

I've been saying it all along. Ive never supported the partisan BS. I had major issues with a guy like trump being ascending into power as he represented a division that goes against my view of America, and the language and attacks that he used in his campaign showed complete lack of respect and character. That's just the truth, and I'm saddened that he was rewarded for taking that approach.

All that said, I apparently don't represent the majority view of America, I can live with that. It was a tough and dirty fight on both sides but I hope we can come together and move forward with class and honor

 

[Slade3200]

Im as disappointed and shocked as the next guy about the results of this election. I always knew Trump had a shot but really hoped that the American people wouldnt elect a character like Trump to run the country. I was wrong.

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies. Please show some class and do your best to support the will of the people and rise above the petty insults that this election seemed to run on.

I've already seen a handful of Trumpsters gloating and making an effort to rub in the victory. Some are going to do that and it just shows their true colors. Don't stoop to their level, there will be plenty of others that just want to make our country better so do your best to engage in healthy substantive debate and conversations.

That's all I got

Democrats cannot "be classy" when they are the most hateful and divisive people I know.

I look forward to Dems proving you wrong. Hillary just did with her concession speech

 

[Onyx]

Don't be so dramatic, it's not an all or nothing game.

Yet it is a game to you. Otherwise you would not keep granting these insane demagogue slimeballs power, which they will use to fuck with my life.

Trump is going to make some mistakes and do things that YOU don't agree with. But he also has the potential to make some things better and progress our country.

How?

Bringing us into war? Building a wall? Starting trade wars? Seizing my money to spend it on services that I never wanted?

Those who are out solely to obstruct and discredit sieve no purpose and only bog down our system. We've seen how negative it can be, just look at the past 8 years

Our system sucks, and I do not want your perverted conception of progress.

Obstructionism comes at a price, but a consolidated government comes at a much higher one.

 

[Slade3200]

Don't be so dramatic, it's not an all or nothing game.

Yet it is a game to you. Otherwise you would not keep granting these insane demagogue slimeballs power, which they will use to fuck with my life.

Trump is going to make some mistakes and do things that YOU don't agree with. But he also has the potential to make some things better and progress our country.

How?

Bringing us into war? Building a wall? Starting trade wars? Seizing my money to spend it on services that I never wanted?

Those who are out solely to obstruct and discredit sieve no purpose and only bog down our system. We've seen how negative it can be, just look at the past 8 years

Our system sucks, and I do not want your perverted conception of progress.

Obstructionism comes at a price, but a consolidated government comes at a much higher one.

Again with the drama. Nothing has even happened yet and "I" didn't Grant anybody power, the people did, Trump did not have my vote. We have the best political system in the world and it is set up in a way that one man can't destroy our nation. If he sucks he is gone in 4 years, but give him a chance to do something. If you disagree with something he is doing gen voice your objections but in the meantime stop wetting your diapers

 

[Onyx]

Again with the drama.

Again, this is just a game to you.

Take your own advice and stop labeling my grievances as being overly dramatic.

Nothing has even happened yet and "I" didn't Grant anybody power, the people did, Trump did not have my vote.

The people did?

How did the people give him power? I did not vote for him, yet he still gets to rule over me?

We have the best political system in the world and it is set up in a way that one man can't destroy our nation.

We really do not have the best politicial system in the world.

That is just the propaganda you learned growing up.

If he sucks he is gone in 4 years, but give him a chance to do something. If you disagree with something he is doing gen voice your objections but in the meantime stop wetting your diapers

I asked you a question.

What could he do to better my life? You are making the case that his opposition should not engage in obstructionism, IE, allow him to have a mandate for bullshit in the name of civility.

 

[Slade3200]

Again, this is just a game to you.

Not a game at all. I've had a knot in my stomach since last night and am still trying to wipe away the disgust I feel with how this election went.

Take your own advice and stop labeling my grievances as being overly dramatic.

You are upset because you didn't get your way, that is understandable, but you are arguing to obstruct just for the sake of obstruction even though no actions have been performed... Why? Because you don't like the guy? Yeah, I think it is fair to say you are being over dramatic.

How did the people give him power? I did not vote for him, yet he still gets to rule over me?

We have an election process which is defined in our constitution and which has been our process since the inception of our country. We are a republic and the people elect our representatives. We elected Trump through that system. The world and our country does not revolve around YOU and what YOU want.

We really do not have the best politicial system in the world.
That is just the propaganda you learned growing up.

Thats your opinion and thats fine, I have mine. Out of curiosity which countries system of government do you prefer to ours?

I asked you a question.
What could he do to better my life? You are making the case that his opposition should not engage in obstructionism, IE, allow him to have a mandate for bullshit in the name of civility.

There are many ways he could improve your life, but ultimately you are the judge of that. I think it would be fair to say that if he cleaned up some of our government programs, was able to cut taxes while maintaining a stable budget, spurred economic growth to better manage our debt, improved on our trade deals to incentivize companies to come back or stay in our country, creates more jobs, etc etc etc. There are many things that could happen. I for one did not agree with some of his ideas, many in fact I thought were horrible ideas, but we shall see what he puts on the table. I'm willing to listen and observe before voicing my objections. Unlike you who thinks it appropriate to do so with blinders on. Yes i'll say again, you are being dramatic and inflammatory and you are doing exactly what the republicans did to Obama, which infuriated the left for so many years. That makes you no better than them.

 

[Onyx]

Again, this is just a game to you.

Not a game at all. I've had a knot in my stomach since last night and am still trying to wipe away the disgust I feel with how this election went.

You and me both.

My disappointment in humanity will long surpass my disgust.

You are upset because you didn't get your way, that is understandable, but you are arguing to obstruct just for the sake of obstruction even though no actions have been performed... Why? Because you don't like the guy? Yeah, I think it is fair to say you are being over dramatic.

I wasn't going to get my way no matter what, as I did not back either candidate.

I never argued obstructionism for the sake of obstructionism either. I argued obstructionism for the sake of not having my life further fucked up.

Thats your opinion and thats fine, I have mine. Out of curiosity which countries system of government do you prefer to ours?

There are opinions and there is reality.

The Zapatistas, Rojava, Switzerland, Republic of China, ect. (not that any of them are great)

I think it would be fair to say that if he cleaned up some of our government programs, was able to cut taxes while maintaining a stable budget, spurred economic growth to better manage our debt, improved on our trade deals to incentivize companies to come back or stay in our country, creates more jobs, etc etc etc.

The government does not have the capacity to create jobs or increase growth.

All it can do is cut back on its own bullshit. The ruling class does not want it. Congress does not want it. The socialist that is Donald Trump definitely does not want it.

I for one did not agree with some of his ideas, many in fact I thought were horrible ideas, but we shall see what he puts on the table. I'm willing to listen and observe before voicing my objections. Unlike you who thinks it appropriate to do so with blinders on.

Your position was not to wait and see.

You outright lectured that no one should engage in obstructionism.

Yes i'll say again, you are being dramatic and inflammatory and you are doing exactly what the republicans did to Obama, which infuriated the left for so many years. That makes you no better than them.

I already said that I am glad that Republicans obstructed Obama.

They were being whiny and petulant, but I am glad he was obstructed nonetheless.

 

[Slade3200]

I wasn't going to get my way no matter what, as I did not back either candidate.

nor did I

I never argued obstructionism for the sake of obstructionism either. I argued obstructionism for the sake of not having my life further fucked up.

If something happens, whether it be a proposed law, executive action, even a policy speech, that you disagree with I am all for people voicing their opinions/objections to it. Don't mistake my message as promoting passive inaction and suppression of ones values.

There are opinions and there is reality.
The Zapatistas, Rojava, Switzerland, Republic of China, ect. (not that any of them are great)

I don't think any of those systems would realistically work better in America than our current system under the conditions that we operate.

The government does not have the capacity to create jobs or increase growth.
All it can do is cut back on its own bullshit. The ruling class does not want it. Congress does not want it. The socialist that is Donald Trump definitely does not want it.

The government absolutely has the ability to do all of that. Taxation takes money out of peoples pockets and reinvests it into our communities. Regulations create safety standards, protect workers rights, and also can limit potential and output. How taxation, spending, and regulations are all managed has a tremendous effect on jobs and economic output.

Your position was not to wait and see.
You outright lectured that no one should engage in obstructionism.

Not true, my OP was a warning to Dems not to overreact and become the exact thing they have been complaining about over the past 8 years. I'm fine with protest, but be smart about it. The violence, lies, hypocrisy, and overdramatic reactions that i've seen in the public forum after this election has only degraded their position. I still, literally feel sick, about the fact that Trump won. I've voiced much opposition to his campaign and think it was a tremendous mistake by our citizens. I believe the whole thing was a Con job and they feel for false propaganda. But I'm also willing to respect the process and give it a chance. If Trump blows it on day one, I will yell and scream, but until then I believe we owe the system a chance.

I started 2 threads after this election. One was this one, a message to Dems to stay classy and not over react, and the other to Trumpsters to remember that Hillary got more votes than Trump and empathy and understanding for their position is the respectable consideration to have: http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/how-you-should-act-now.546171

I already said that I am glad that Republicans obstructed Obama.
They were being whiny and petulant, but I am glad he was obstructed nonetheless.

I just disagree with your tactic. I'm fine with disagreement, critique, but obstruction should be a last resort on only the extremely important issues. It was way overused by Republicans during Obamas term. It is the reason why very few laws get passed, and the reason why the laws that actually do make it through are horribly written and executed. How is a system supposed to operate when its operators can't come together to make it as good as possible. Of course the ACA bombed, half the people involved in passing it have been trying to trash it before it ever hit the ground. Its pathetic

 

[Onyx]

If something happens, whether it be a proposed law, executive action, even a policy speech, that you disagree with I am all for people voicing their opinions/objections to it. Don't mistake my message as promoting passive inaction and suppression of ones values.

Okay, and if all potential government mandates are against my values, then why should I not be supportive of obstructionism.

I don't think any of those systems would realistically work better in America than our current system under the conditions that we operate.

They would work better for a fact, given the US system does not work at all. Everything it does brings pain and suffering to those at home and especially to those abroad.

Americans are too lazy, dependent, and self obsessed to deal with more liberty. Nothing is not subject to change though. The EZLN and Rojava both emulated anarchist thought, and are extreme libertarian states.

The government absolutely has the ability to do all of that. Taxation takes money out of peoples pockets and reinvests it into our communities.

It violently reappropritates money to sectors where it is less useful.

I never saw the government invest in my community, nor do I like what government investments usually look like. Recently my community has shifted more to paving our own roads, patrolling our own streets, and providing our own public goods. Things we can do without the savage and barbaric state that tools like you support.

Regulations create safety standards, protect workers rights, and also can limit potential and output.

False.

Regulations serve two functions. To protect the special interests of corporate backers, and to win votes so a candidate can take power to serve the special interests of corporate backers.

How taxation, spending, and regulations are all managed has a tremendous effect on jobs and economic output.

A tremendous negative effect on jobs, production, and markets. What economics school are you from?

I've voiced much opposition to his campaign and think it was a tremendous mistake by our citizens. I believe the whole thing was a Con job and they feel for false propaganda. But I'm also willing to respect the process and give it a chance. If Trump blows it on day one, I will yell and scream, but until then I believe we owe the system a chance.

We gave the system a billion chances. Hundreds of billion if we broaden the concept to states and apply it to all of human history.

Stop being such a tool and wake up to reality.

I just disagree with your tactic. I'm fine with disagreement, critique, but obstruction should be a last resort on only the extremely important issues. It was way overused by Republicans during Obamas term. It is the reason why very few laws get passed, and the reason why the laws that actually do make it through are horribly written and executed. How is a system supposed to operate when its operators can't come together to make it as good as possible. Of course the ACA bombed, half the people involved in passing it have been trying to trash it before it ever hit the ground. Its pathetic

The system worked just fine during this administration. Both Democrats and Republicans earned a new set of lobbyists, and corporations won bigger than ever. Exactly as the system was designed.

Like I said, I am glad that new laws were not passed. The fact that horrible laws (all of them) got through means that there was not enough obstructionism.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies.

why not? You dont like Karma?

 

[Slade3200]

Okay, and if all potential government mandates are against my values, then why should I not be supportive of obstructionism.

Because obstructionism doesn't do anything but stroke your ego and cause conflict, realistically and productively speaking... Your efforts would be much better supporting efforts to reduce or eliminate government mandates and policies that go against your values. Explain and articulate why you make your points and join or lead a movement to educate and effective institute our ideas in our political system.

They would work better for a fact, given the US system does not work at all. Everything it does brings pain and suffering to those at home and especially to those abroad.

Americans are too lazy, dependent, and self obsessed to deal with more liberty. Nothing is not subject to change though. The EZLN and Rojava both emulated anarchist thought, and are extreme libertarian states.

Non of your Anarchist societies have lasted or have anywhere close to the magnitude of responsibility/power that the US has in the world. You still have not convincingly shown which other system can work better in our country and how that transition would work. Plus the fact that you think that our entire system only brings pain and suffering really shows how privileged and out of touch you are about the nation you live in. Perhaps you should do some traveling and experience other areas of the world that really do have pain and suffering and a broken system.

It violently reappropritates money to sectors where it is less useful.

I never saw the government invest in my community, nor do I like what government investments usually look like. Recently my community has shifted more to paving our own roads, patrolling our own streets, and providing our own public goods. Things we can do without the savage and barbaric state that tools like you support.

Sounds like you live out in the "sticks" let me guess, lots of land, very few people, right? Anarchy works just fine for your lifestyle and the area where you live. For those in civilization it is a very different story. And what exactly is the government taking from you that you are so opposed to? Money? You mean the currency that they created, manage the value of, provide an open market of commerce? You only have it because you are part of our system. You can go live in a forest and trade deer shit for fig leaves if you want, be my guest.

Regulations serve two functions. To protect the special interests of corporate backers, and to win votes so a candidate can take power to serve the special interests of corporate backers.

In some cases yes and in others not. Try and be objective and not only point out the bad and abuses. I recognize those are there and am all for reforms that prevent that abuse, but there is a bigger picture, which you seem to not understand.

A tremendous negative effect on jobs, production, and markets. What economics school are you from?

I graduated from UCSB a long time ago

We gave the system a billion chances. Hundreds of billion if we broaden the concept to states and apply it to all of human history.

Stop being such a tool and wake up to reality.

I think you need to wake up my friend... We don't live in a horrible world or a horrible country. We are lucky enough to be arguing over this BS on our computers and smartphones instead of fighting for our lives and survival each day. You probably drive home in your own vehicle and watch TV on your flat screen before going to bed at night. Go live in Syria for a year or Africa or any other 3rd world country and perhaps develop some perspective.

 

[Slade3200]

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies.

why not? You dont like Karma?

If somebody was an Asshole to you during this campaign and you want to throw it back in their face then go ahead if you feel the need to do so, but the majority of people who supported Hillary or identifies as a liberal/dem is a partisan insulting wingnut. Many do have very real anxiety and fears over what Trump will do. You can understand and empathize with that and speak to them accordingly or you can become the same partisan wingnut asshole that you despise in your opposition.

 

[francoHFW]

Hillary still needs to go to jail.

Trump has already left that deal behind, dupe.

 

[Onyx]

Because obstructionism doesn't do anything but stroke your ego and cause conflict, realistically and productively speaking...

You forgot that it prevents legislation.

Non of your Anarchist societies have lasted

No state has ever lasted. Not one.

The average life of a republic is less than 40 years. Many anarchic societies have lasted longer than the Roman empire.

or have anywhere close to the magnitude of responsibility/power that the US has in the world.

Responsibility and power?

The savage state that barbarians like you support is not bounded by responsibility, and has consistently used its power to exploit and terrorize the third world.

Plus the fact that you think that our entire system only brings pain and suffering really shows how privileged and out of touch you are about the nation you live in.

Or vice versa. You are simply indignant to the pain and suffering of others. You are living in your own self absorbed reality chocked full of blind optimism and complacency, leaching off the material wealth that others created.

Perhaps you should do some traveling and experience other areas of the world that really do have pain and suffering and a broken system.

All states are broken. I would never claim a single one of them was good, including the ones I listed.

The field I am going into is humanitarian work. I am sure I will witness plenty of the devastation that you anti-humans have inflicted on this once pure earth.

Sounds like you live out in the "sticks" let me guess, lots of land, very few people, right? Anarchy works just fine for your lifestyle and the area where you live.

No, I live in the city. Anarchy works everywhere, because rulers work nowhere.

States have ended tens of billions of human lives, and will kill tens of billions more. You barbarians have done nothing but pillage and destroy.

You mean the currency that they created, manage the value of, provide an open market of commerce? You only have it because you are part of our system.

And because the government actively comes down on those that use anything other than legal tender. The era of free banking ended because the corrupt and abusive government put an end to it. Tools like you are accountable for the states countless crimes against humanity.

I graduated from UCSB a long time ago

What philosophical school of economics do you come from?

We don't live in a horrible world or a horrible country.

Only because tools like you are blind and indignant to the constant exploitation and terror that is employed throughout the world. When the state has run out of minorities and third world countries to milk, they will turn their sights on you.

We are lucky enough to be arguing over this BS on our computers and smartphones instead of fighting for our lives and survival each day.

And you do not think the US is going to be like Africa one day? You live in a bubble economy. The entire wealth of this nation is sustained on the products of other peoples labor, and the wealth of other nations. The economic prosperity that you enjoy is based almost entirely on exploitation and fiat.

Western society is a den of parasites. Might not like it, but that does not make it any less of a reality.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I now hope that Dems won't turn into the same thing they have criticized over the past 8 years, obstructionist partisan crybabies.

why not? You dont like Karma?

If somebody was an Asshole to you during this campaign and you want to throw it back in their face then go ahead if you feel the need to do so, but the majority of people who supported Hillary or identifies as a liberal/dem is a partisan insulting wingnut. Many do have very real anxiety and fears over what Trump will do. You can understand and empathize with that and speak to them accordingly or you can become the same partisan wingnut asshole that you despise in your opposition.

Why not? The Repubs did it and got reelected. Now what? Dems are supposed to turn the other cheek? Strive for being better when its your ass in the line of fire? lmao