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Democrats Need to Drop the Gun-Control Issue

2aguy

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Liquor stores sell more alcohol to people under 21 than licensed gun dealers sell guns to people who don't pass BG checks

And they get busted when they get caught doing it.

Frankly, it depends on enforcement level. There's a couple towns out here that card everyone. I mean, there's now way even Mr. Magoo could mistake me for a 19 year old, but I get carded anyway.

We need that level of enforcement with guns.

Earlier in the thread, I pointed out that there is a gun store in Indiana where 850 guns recovered in crimes in Chicago were bought from. You really going to tell me that guy doesn't know what's going on?


That gun store, dumb ass, does a criminal background check on every purchase.....the criminals, as we keep telling you....use straw buyers to buy guns.........straw buyers...you asshole, can pass any background check......so that means they can pass the Federal, mandatory background check at that gun store, at the gun stores in Illinois, and anywhere else..........

There are no gun stores within the city limits of Chicago, you dumb ass....if there were, the same straw buyers would be able to pass their federal, mandatory background checks too...

And the ones using the guns in chicago...the gang members and criminals...? They have been arrested over and over again for illegal possession of guns and violent gun crimes....then, the Kim Foxx, the democrat party State's Attorney, let's them go...dropping the gun charges, and letting them plea bargain away the gun charge...then the democrat party judge lets them out of jail on home monitoring and no bail.....and then gives them light sentences,......no matter how many times they are arrested for illegal gun possession, and even for attempted murder with those guns...


It isn't the gun store in Indiana that is the problem you dumb ass.....it is the democrat party that has controlled Chicago since 1931 and keeps releasing violent gun offenders over and over again......
 

hadit

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You pretend the media doesn't sensationalize and politicize gun violence. Cute, but it doesn't address what I said about failing to do anything to prevent violence in the first place.

Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe it would be a good thing to make a bigger deal out of criminals shooting each other. You know, highlight how most gun murders are NOT gun owners going nuts and shooting their neighbors. Might get some attention in the right places. Or do we just want to keep it on the surface so we can pretend it's the wild wild west without delving into who is actually killing whom?

They sensationalize the things that are truly sensational.

A 6 year old shot because his mom gave a finger to a gun nut who cut her off is sensational.
A school full of kids getting shot is sensational.

Someone shooting his neighbor because of a dispute over snow, that barely rates.

If gun violence is a real problem, it should be. IOW, dozens of people getting shot in Chicago over a weekend SHOULD be a big issue and focused on until it gets shut down. It isn't, however, because it's largely criminal on criminal shooting, and apparently no one cares about that beyond using it to pump up the death numbers.

IOW, you gun grabbers get all up in arms to "stop the violence", but only when Blond Barbie is the victim. When Carlos and 5 of his gang get gunned down in a drug deal gone bad, well, that's just to be expected. But hey, at least it's another statistic to claim that the US has too many gun deaths.
 

hadit

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You are not the authority as to what most people want.


And in your world you'd be able to sue the liquor store owner because you're an alcoholic

Actually, if the Liquor stores acted like the gun stores, that might not be a bad idea.

You know, you can sue a bar if the bar let you get sloppy drunk and then stumble out to your car. Most bartenders are required to take BASSET training to know when they have overserved a customer.

Not the gun stores, though; This guy can walk in and get an automatic rifle and a 100 round clip.

View attachment 499090
He looks perfectly normal to me.
1. No, he cannot "walk in and get an automatic rifle". No one can get get an automatic rifle without a license and have to spend a lot of money.
2. He can only get a firearm after passing a background check and the waiting period. He cannot "walk in and get an automatic rifle and a 100 round clip".

Obviously you are not being serious about this.
 

2aguy

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I never said it's no big deal it just isn't a crime or violence issue. And it certainly isn't a gun issue.

And the gun industry does not benefit from suicides.

No, they do benefit from mass shootings and crime, though. Gets all the scared little white guys frightened and they want more and more guns. And then pretty soon they have an arsenal big enough to fight off the Zombies, until Little Timmy offs himself becuase his girlfriend dumped him.


The NRA isn't covering mass public shootings 24/7 you dumb shit.....the democrat party press is...............even though mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events........more rare than lighting strikes.......

So don't sell us that crap....it is you and yours who are making celebrities out of mass public shooters, not us....you who are trying to spread the fear so you can push gun control....but it is your coverage that backfires....since it just shows that if you are attacked....the police are at least 5 minutes away....

You are the ones selling guns...not us...you idiot...tell your democrat party press to stop covering mass public shooters as if they are the Oscar winners of the crime world....you dumb ass.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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You are not the authority as to what most people want.


And in your world you'd be able to sue the liquor store owner because you're an alcoholic

Actually, if the Liquor stores acted like the gun stores, that might not be a bad idea.

You know, you can sue a bar if the bar let you get sloppy drunk and then stumble out to your car. Most bartenders are required to take BASSET training to know when they have overserved a customer.

Not the gun stores, though; This guy can walk in and get an automatic rifle and a 100 round clip.

View attachment 499090
He looks perfectly normal to me.
Nobody can get an automatic rifle, dumbass. And the minute they deny someone a firearm based ON LOOKS, they would be sued into oblivion. So fuck you.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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YOu don't give up on trying to solve a problem because it's too hard.
Didn’t say anything about giving up.

Saying that a Band-Aid won’t fix a brain tumor doesn’t mean you won’t try to cure the cancer.

The solution to gun crime and violence is indeed complex and difficult – it won’t be solved with ‘bans,’ regardless the political/judicial climate.

And I don’t pretend to know what the solution is – but I do know what the solution isn’t.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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The first thing I would do is repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA). One thing that we find is that when you do a trace on illicit guns, they come from a fraction of gun dealers who have decided to be irresponsible.
Repealing the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act isn’t going to happen, either.

And however irresponsible those dealers might be, their actions are nonetheless legal; the same is true of Indiana gun dealers, who sell firearms consistent with state and Federal law.

This problem isn’t going to be addressed with more laws – it will require fundamental changes to the very fabric and foundation of American culture and society where violence is glorified and perceived as an appropriate means of conflict resolution.
 

JoeB131

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OK then let's have a limit on how much alcohol people can buy and BG checks so no liquor store owner sells to people who are alcoholics or have a history of drunk driving.

Works for me. Actually, Alcohol consumption is still lower than it was before Prohibition.

The thing is, the Alcohol industry is actually responsible... the gun industry, not so much.
 

JoeB131

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The gun store, you lying asshole.....has to do a mandatory criminal background check.......this guy passed it....your God...government, failed, not the gun store.

They did their job...your God failed.

Uh, guy, the government didn't see this guy was dressed up like the Joker and that he was acting all crazy and shit. The gun store did. We expect a human behind a counter to be a final check on whether or not the wrong people are getting guns.


The guns are commonly sold over the counter to anyone who passes a CBI and FBI background check, as Holmes, who has just a traffic offense on an otherwise spotless criminal record, did.

“Based on the records we have reviewed, personnel in our Denver store correctly and fully followed all Federal requirements with respect to the sale of one shotgun and one handgun to the individual identified in this incident,” said a statement released by Bass Pro Shops. “Background checks, as required by Federal law, were properly conducted, and he was approved.”

Holmes purchased a third weapon, a semi-automatic AR-15 assault rifle, at the Gander Mountain store in Aurora just a mile from the movie theater where he allegedly mowed down dozens of unsuspecting moviegoers.

The AR-15 assault rifle was among the weapons banned by the federal government up until 2004, when the ban expired. It has not been renewed.
 

JoeB131

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That gun store, dumb ass, does a criminal background check on every purchase.....the criminals, as we keep telling you....use straw buyers to buy guns.........straw buyers...you asshole, can pass any background check......so that means they can pass the Federal, mandatory background check at that gun store, at the gun stores in Illinois, and anywhere else..........

I'm sure they do. And when the same straw buyer shows up at the same gun store to buy his 50th gun, that should set off alarm bells... but it doesn't.

This is why we need to let the victims of gun violence sue the gun stores that these guns come from. If their behavior was fine, not an issue. My guess, some of these stores aren't fine. The ones where 850 guns bought at a store in Indiana were recovered in crimes by the Chicago Police Force. Don't tell me that guy didn't know exactly what was going on.

The NRA isn't covering mass public shootings 24/7 you dumb shit.....the democrat party press is...............even though mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events........more rare than lighting strikes.......

Uh, yeah, 300+ of them a year isn't rare.

So don't sell us that crap....it is you and yours who are making celebrities out of mass public shooters, not us....you who are trying to spread the fear so you can push gun control....but it is your coverage that backfires....since it just shows that if you are attacked....the police are at least 5 minutes away....

Yet, oddly, no "good guy with a gun" ever shows up to stop one of these public mass shooters. I think the only case I heard of where one did, he was immediately shot in the back by the shooter's girlfriend.

Because, um, yeah, this is the kind of couple you want to sell guns to.

1623320773745.png
 

2aguy

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The gun store, you lying asshole.....has to do a mandatory criminal background check.......this guy passed it....your God...government, failed, not the gun store.

They did their job...your God failed.

Uh, guy, the government didn't see this guy was dressed up like the Joker and that he was acting all crazy and shit. The gun store did. We expect a human behind a counter to be a final check on whether or not the wrong people are getting guns.


The guns are commonly sold over the counter to anyone who passes a CBI and FBI background check, as Holmes, who has just a traffic offense on an otherwise spotless criminal record, did.

“Based on the records we have reviewed, personnel in our Denver store correctly and fully followed all Federal requirements with respect to the sale of one shotgun and one handgun to the individual identified in this incident,” said a statement released by Bass Pro Shops. “Background checks, as required by Federal law, were properly conducted, and he was approved.”

Holmes purchased a third weapon, a semi-automatic AR-15 assault rifle, at the Gander Mountain store in Aurora just a mile from the movie theater where he allegedly mowed down dozens of unsuspecting moviegoers.

The AR-15 assault rifle was among the weapons banned by the federal government up until 2004, when the ban expired. It has not been renewed.


No, shit head...the gun store ran the mandated, Federal Background check...the kid had no criminal record, he was not involuntarlily commited which would have also shown up......the gun store did it's job.....the government failed...your God failed.

Moron...with that rifle and shotgun and pistols...the rifle jammed....

He killed 12 people...

The shooter at Luby's cafe with two pistols...killed 24

Virginia Tech...with two pistols....killed 32...

The rifle didn't make any difference, you idiot.........

The rifle jammed......he had to use the shotgun and pistol....


There is only one mass public shooting where the rifle had an advantage in the shooting, and that was Las Vegas, where the range was over 200 yards......but he was also firing into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, from a concealed and fortified position.......with his initial shooting masked by the concert.



And if the crowed wasn't trapped in that concert arena, he wouldn't have been able to kill as many since they would have run away or found cover.....since shooting at moving targets at hundreds of yards is almost impossible for all but expertly trained shooters...



At the range of every other mass public shooting a rifle has no advantage over pistols or shotguns.......



again.....at the range of a mass public shooting the AR-15 is no better than a pump action shotgun....as are 2 handguns......you idiot...



Boulder....used an AR-15 with magazines that held more than 10 bullets.. 10 killed.....



Virginia Tech...2 pistols, one with 10 round magazine..... 32 killed.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 2 pistols?



Boulder...10 killed with an AR-15 rifle and regular magazines ( holding more than 10 bullets)



Luby's Cafe..... 2 pistols....24 killed.



Do you see that the 2 pistols killed more than the AR-15?



Do you know what the difference was between these attacks?



The cops immediately responded and shot at the attacker in boulder, causing him to stop shooting unarmed victims, and then he shot himself....



Virginia Tech and Luby's Cafe, the police didn't get there, and at Luby's Cafe, the one woman who could have shot and killed the attacker had to leave her gun in her car because of stupid gun free zone laws....



Boulder AR-15 with magazines that hold more than 10 bullets...you know, regular magazines..... 10 killed...



Kerch, Russia, Polytechnic school shooting.... 5 shot, pump action shotgun...which means it had 5 shells which is 5 less than 10........20 killed 70 wounded.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 5 shot, pump action shotgun?



The difference? The Russian police station was 100 yards away from the school...and it still took them 10 minutes to get to the school...and he managed to kill 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun....10 more than the Boulder shooter with a rifle and a regular sized magazine...





So again.......in a mass public shooting the number of bullets in the gun magazine don't mean anything......the gun doesn't make the difference....



What makes the difference?



1) if the target is a gun free zone, more people get killed.



2) if someone starts shooting at the attacker, they commit suicide, or surrender, or runaway....



That is what you don't understand and don't care to understand since you simply have a mental issue when it comes to the AR-15 rifle.

That rifle had no special advantage in a mass public shooting.
 

2aguy

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That gun store, dumb ass, does a criminal background check on every purchase.....the criminals, as we keep telling you....use straw buyers to buy guns.........straw buyers...you asshole, can pass any background check......so that means they can pass the Federal, mandatory background check at that gun store, at the gun stores in Illinois, and anywhere else..........

I'm sure they do. And when the same straw buyer shows up at the same gun store to buy his 50th gun, that should set off alarm bells... but it doesn't.

This is why we need to let the victims of gun violence sue the gun stores that these guns come from. If their behavior was fine, not an issue. My guess, some of these stores aren't fine. The ones where 850 guns bought at a store in Indiana were recovered in crimes by the Chicago Police Force. Don't tell me that guy didn't know exactly what was going on.

The NRA isn't covering mass public shootings 24/7 you dumb shit.....the democrat party press is...............even though mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events........more rare than lighting strikes.......

Uh, yeah, 300+ of them a year isn't rare.

So don't sell us that crap....it is you and yours who are making celebrities out of mass public shooters, not us....you who are trying to spread the fear so you can push gun control....but it is your coverage that backfires....since it just shows that if you are attacked....the police are at least 5 minutes away....

Yet, oddly, no "good guy with a gun" ever shows up to stop one of these public mass shooters. I think the only case I heard of where one did, he was immediately shot in the back by the shooter's girlfriend.

Because, um, yeah, this is the kind of couple you want to sell guns to.

View attachment 499416


This is a lie.....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.


BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------


The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.
 

Blues Man

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OK then let's have a limit on how much alcohol people can buy and BG checks so no liquor store owner sells to people who are alcoholics or have a history of drunk driving.

Works for me. Actually, Alcohol consumption is still lower than it was before Prohibition.

The thing is, the Alcohol industry is actually responsible... the gun industry, not so much.
Really?

How many of the families of the 80000 people a year who die because of alcohol get to sue liquor manufacturers?
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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OK then let's have a limit on how much alcohol people can buy and BG checks so no liquor store owner sells to people who are alcoholics or have a history of drunk driving.

Works for me. Actually, Alcohol consumption is still lower than it was before Prohibition.

The thing is, the Alcohol industry is actually responsible... the gun industry, not so much.
Really? How is the Alcohol industry responsible?
 

2aguy

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That gun store, dumb ass, does a criminal background check on every purchase.....the criminals, as we keep telling you....use straw buyers to buy guns.........straw buyers...you asshole, can pass any background check......so that means they can pass the Federal, mandatory background check at that gun store, at the gun stores in Illinois, and anywhere else..........

I'm sure they do. And when the same straw buyer shows up at the same gun store to buy his 50th gun, that should set off alarm bells... but it doesn't.

This is why we need to let the victims of gun violence sue the gun stores that these guns come from. If their behavior was fine, not an issue. My guess, some of these stores aren't fine. The ones where 850 guns bought at a store in Indiana were recovered in crimes by the Chicago Police Force. Don't tell me that guy didn't know exactly what was going on.

The NRA isn't covering mass public shootings 24/7 you dumb shit.....the democrat party press is...............even though mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events........more rare than lighting strikes.......

Uh, yeah, 300+ of them a year isn't rare.

So don't sell us that crap....it is you and yours who are making celebrities out of mass public shooters, not us....you who are trying to spread the fear so you can push gun control....but it is your coverage that backfires....since it just shows that if you are attacked....the police are at least 5 minutes away....

Yet, oddly, no "good guy with a gun" ever shows up to stop one of these public mass shooters. I think the only case I heard of where one did, he was immediately shot in the back by the shooter's girlfriend.

Because, um, yeah, this is the kind of couple you want to sell guns to.

View attachment 499416


The gun store isn't the problem with straw buyers, you idiot.......your God, government, is the problem...

Kim Foxx and the other democrats in Chicago, as well as Federal and local prosecutors don't prosecute straw buyers, you idiot.

Why? Because most of the time, they are the grandma, girlfriend, baby momma of the criminal, and are threatened with violence if they refuse...you idiot....

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance.

California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions.

Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too.

Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies.


It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check.

In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive.

In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review


Straw purchaser with 4 felony gun charges will not get jail time

A Chicago-area woman arrested last year for her role in illegally selling guns to prohibited buyers, some with gang affiliations, was sentenced to probation and community service last week.

Simone Mousheh, 23, of the Chicago suburb of Mount Prospect, will have to complete 15 days of community service in the Cook County Sheriff’s Work Alternative Program and 12 months probation after pleading guilty to illegal transfer of firearms last week, as reported by the Daily Herald.

Mousheh was arrested last September and charged with four felonies after an investigation by the Chicago Police Firearm Investigation Team concluded she had bought handguns through the benefit of her state-issued Firearms Owners Identification card and then illegally resold them.

One gun, a Glock 23 Mousheh later reported as stolen, was recovered by police from a juvenile offender on the West Side. Another Glock, a Model 22, was sold to Jayson Barber nine days after she bought it. Mousheh knew at the time that Barber was on probation for domestic battery, and did not have a FOID card which is needed to possess a handgun in Illinois. Police later determined Barber had gang ties. The Glock was the second gun she sold to Barber.

Over a six-month period, Mousheh purchased four Glocks and put a $1,000 deposit on an FN 5.7 pistol. Police were only able to recover the Glock from Barber as well as one other gun and a box of 5.7x28mm ammunition from her home.





ATF Lets Straw Purchasing Violent Criminal Walk In WV

Travis Bishop has been working the past 13 years as a firearms dealer in West Virginia at Tannerman’s Weapon Systems. The store is not only his passion, but also a beacon of hope in his community.

He has put on four food drives in the past 10 years, he’s active in his church through ministry work, he has helped countless heroin addicts though outreach programs, and recently helped 25-year old Britney Bretfield, a customer at Tannerman’s and an avid shotgun trap shooter suffering from cancer, by raising $5500 to help offset her medical bills.

This man goes above and beyond, so when people heard he alerted authorities to break up a straw purchase in his store, it was no surprise. The surprise came after the individuals were spotted in a local liquor store only 14 hours after being arrested.

On December 10th, Travis was working in his store as usual, when two individuals entered his store looking for a handgun. After approaching the two, asking if there was anything he could help them find, the woman indicated she was looking for a “gun with a beam”.


After talking with them only a few short minutes, he alerted his store employees to go into “straw purchase” mode. This slows things down behind the counter and allows them time to further assess the situation and call law enforcement if necessary.

Continuing to press for information, Travis asked if they had ever owned or handled handguns before and they both indicated, ‘oh yeah. yeah, we have guns.’ but neither one was able to say what kind or model they were. After perusing the store talking about several options and deciding on a handgun, they said, ‘yeah, we’ll take that one.’

Confused, Travis asked, “What do you mean ‘you’ll both take that one’? Which one of you is going to be purchasing the gun?” to which she replied, “Oh, he’s gonna get it, I’m gonna pay for it.” So he takes them to the counter to start the process and asked, “Which one of you specifically is buying the gun?” Again she answered, “Well the gun is for him, but I’m gonna pay for it.”
 

2aguy

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That gun store, dumb ass, does a criminal background check on every purchase.....the criminals, as we keep telling you....use straw buyers to buy guns.........straw buyers...you asshole, can pass any background check......so that means they can pass the Federal, mandatory background check at that gun store, at the gun stores in Illinois, and anywhere else..........

I'm sure they do. And when the same straw buyer shows up at the same gun store to buy his 50th gun, that should set off alarm bells... but it doesn't.

This is why we need to let the victims of gun violence sue the gun stores that these guns come from. If their behavior was fine, not an issue. My guess, some of these stores aren't fine. The ones where 850 guns bought at a store in Indiana were recovered in crimes by the Chicago Police Force. Don't tell me that guy didn't know exactly what was going on.

The NRA isn't covering mass public shootings 24/7 you dumb shit.....the democrat party press is...............even though mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events........more rare than lighting strikes.......

Uh, yeah, 300+ of them a year isn't rare.

So don't sell us that crap....it is you and yours who are making celebrities out of mass public shooters, not us....you who are trying to spread the fear so you can push gun control....but it is your coverage that backfires....since it just shows that if you are attacked....the police are at least 5 minutes away....

Yet, oddly, no "good guy with a gun" ever shows up to stop one of these public mass shooters. I think the only case I heard of where one did, he was immediately shot in the back by the shooter's girlfriend.

Because, um, yeah, this is the kind of couple you want to sell guns to.

View attachment 499416


Yet, oddly, no "good guy with a gun" ever shows up to stop one of these public mass shooters. I think the only case I heard of where one did, he was immediately shot in the back by the shooter's girlfriend.

Idiot.......you and other irrational, anti-gun extremists have made almost every public space legally mandated gun free zones...which means.....you dumb ass.....that normal, law abiding gun owners have to leave their guns in their cars or at home if they want to enter those places....so when mass public shootings happen, they don't have their gun with them because of morons like you..

But what happens when a mass public shooter is an idiot...and actually picks a location where people can carry their legal guns?


Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.


BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------


The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.
 

2aguy

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That gun store, dumb ass, does a criminal background check on every purchase.....the criminals, as we keep telling you....use straw buyers to buy guns.........straw buyers...you asshole, can pass any background check......so that means they can pass the Federal, mandatory background check at that gun store, at the gun stores in Illinois, and anywhere else..........

I'm sure they do. And when the same straw buyer shows up at the same gun store to buy his 50th gun, that should set off alarm bells... but it doesn't.

This is why we need to let the victims of gun violence sue the gun stores that these guns come from. If their behavior was fine, not an issue. My guess, some of these stores aren't fine. The ones where 850 guns bought at a store in Indiana were recovered in crimes by the Chicago Police Force. Don't tell me that guy didn't know exactly what was going on.

The NRA isn't covering mass public shootings 24/7 you dumb shit.....the democrat party press is...............even though mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events........more rare than lighting strikes.......

So don't sell us that crap....it is you and yours who are making celebrities out of mass public shooters, not us....you who are trying to spread the fear so you can push gun control....but it is your coverage that backfires....since it just shows that if you are attacked....the police are at least 5 minutes away....

Yet, oddly, no "good guy with a gun" ever shows up to stop one of these public mass shooters. I think the only case I heard of where one did, he was immediately shot in the back by the shooter's girlfriend.

Because, um, yeah, this is the kind of couple you want to sell guns to.

View attachment 499416

There are not 300 mass public shootings each year...you lying doofus.....

US mass shootings, 1982–2021: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
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  • Here is a description of the criteria we use:
    • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
    • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
    • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)
    • Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
    • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
    • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
    • ----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker.

We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.)


Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.


Total murders by mass public shooters...1982-2017


795




---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...

I have put obama's updated number in parenthesis..........

we will see....


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2020....1

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation
 

JoeB131

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No, shit head...the gun store ran the mandated, Federal Background check...the kid had no criminal record, he was not involuntarlily commited which would have also shown up......the gun store did it's job.....the government failed...your God failed.

The government didn't see an obviously disturbed kid trying to buy a gun. There's a reason why we have people sell guns instead of Gun Vending Machines. (Oh, wait, you probably sit up at night fantasizing about gun vending machines."

1623409206952.png


Everyone in Holmes life knew he was disturbed. A gun store saw a disturbed man and sold him a military grade weapon.

The gun store isn't the problem with straw buyers, you idiot.......your God, government, is the problem...

Kim Foxx and the other democrats in Chicago, as well as Federal and local prosecutors don't prosecute straw buyers, you idiot.

Why? Because most of the time, they are the grandma, girlfriend, baby momma of the criminal, and are threatened with violence if they refuse...you idiot....

Uh, I agree. The government is the problem. The ATF is a toothless tiger, there's no accountablity by the government for the gun-mongers, and THAT'S the problem.

Throw a few gun sellers in jail, you are going to find they clean up their act, pretty fucking quick.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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Everyone in Holmes life knew he was disturbed. A gun store saw a disturbed man and sold him a military grade weapon.
Hold on, what military-grade weapon did they sell him?

There's your criminal offense. They are not allowed to sell military-grade weapons to civilians and civilians are not allowed to buy them.
 

2aguy

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No, shit head...the gun store ran the mandated, Federal Background check...the kid had no criminal record, he was not involuntarlily commited which would have also shown up......the gun store did it's job.....the government failed...your God failed.

The government didn't see an obviously disturbed kid trying to buy a gun. There's a reason why we have people sell guns instead of Gun Vending Machines. (Oh, wait, you probably sit up at night fantasizing about gun vending machines."

View attachment 499905

Everyone in Holmes life knew he was disturbed. A gun store saw a disturbed man and sold him a military grade weapon.

The gun store isn't the problem with straw buyers, you idiot.......your God, government, is the problem...

Kim Foxx and the other democrats in Chicago, as well as Federal and local prosecutors don't prosecute straw buyers, you idiot.

Why? Because most of the time, they are the grandma, girlfriend, baby momma of the criminal, and are threatened with violence if they refuse...you idiot....

Uh, I agree. The government is the problem. The ATF is a toothless tiger, there's no accountablity by the government for the gun-mongers, and THAT'S the problem.

Throw a few gun sellers in jail, you are going to find they clean up their act, pretty fucking quick.


Shit head.......you keep lying....

When he went into the gun store, he went through a background check....a Federal, Mandatory, background check.....no one in his life had him committed...if they had, it would have popped up on the background check...

your God, government, failed....not the gun store...they did their job......government didn't do their job....

Kim foxx and the other democrat party prosecutors who keep dropping the illegal, felony gun charges and making plea deals that allow repeat, violent gun offenders to get out on bail, and out of jail and prison with light sentences should be the ones in jail...
 

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