Democrats Need to Drop the Gun-Control Issue

[2aguy]

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

Except they do all the time, that's the problem. Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

Case in point, the guy who shot up the Fed Ex Facility and killed a bunch of Sihks. His own mother turned him in, because she thought he was dangerous. The cops took his gun. He was able to walk right into a gun store and buy more guns.

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

More like 300 million.

We also have

39,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 BILLION in economic losses due to guns.

We have to rearrange our entire society around the "Some nut might come in and start shooting the place up!" because you fetishists don't want to take an extra 10 minutes to make sure that someone who shouldn't have a gun can't get one.

One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

Uh, guy, what "media sensationalism". We have 39,000 gun deaths a year. 106 people die every day from gun violence, and the vast majority of them don't make the news. Not unless it's something really spectacular like Sandy Hook.

The thing is, when we have a Sandy Hook, everyone gets upset, for about a day. The Gun Fetishists keep on this every day, which is why we don't get change even when babies are murdered.

Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

You told us background checks were the solution.....you told us they would keep us safe..

Yes....the FBI has dropped the ball on your precious background check system....obama's Promise Policy kept local police and school officials from giving the shooter in that shooting a criminal record despite over 30 contacts with the police and committing at least 2 felonies on school grounds...

These are the government Gods you want us to rely on to protect us....you want us to give in our guns and rely on the FBI and local police to protect us...when they keep screwing up in the mass shooter detection game.....that is on you and your beliefs...not on us.

We know the police screw up...we know the system fails...that is why we want gun free zones ended so when your Gods fail, we can protect ourselves...

 

[2aguy]

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

Except they do all the time, that's the problem. Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

Case in point, the guy who shot up the Fed Ex Facility and killed a bunch of Sihks. His own mother turned him in, because she thought he was dangerous. The cops took his gun. He was able to walk right into a gun store and buy more guns.

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

More like 300 million.

We also have

39,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 BILLION in economic losses due to guns.

We have to rearrange our entire society around the "Some nut might come in and start shooting the place up!" because you fetishists don't want to take an extra 10 minutes to make sure that someone who shouldn't have a gun can't get one.

One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

Uh, guy, what "media sensationalism". We have 39,000 gun deaths a year. 106 people die every day from gun violence, and the vast majority of them don't make the news. Not unless it's something really spectacular like Sandy Hook.

The thing is, when we have a Sandy Hook, everyone gets upset, for about a day. The Gun Fetishists keep on this every day, which is why we don't get change even when babies are murdered.

We passed 300 million about 10 years ago....

600 million guns in private hands......over 19.4 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........

Gun deaths...the truth....

2019...

Gun murder...10,235

Gun accidents...486

Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.


Gun suicides... 23,491...

Broker Version 9.4 (Build 1366)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

ucr.fbi.gov

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct


that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—

Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......


So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.

Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ An article posted yesterday at Motherboard informed [both] readers that “gun violence” costs the nation $6.6 billion in healthcare costs over nine years ($734m p.a.). Their tally’s based on a study published in the American Journal of Public Health. But wait...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[2aguy]

There is no comparison to airline security and guns.

And like I said I don't have a fetish. I own a few guns. Most of them are personal defense guns I can carry. I own one shot gun and one rifle that I hardly ever use.

And I did put up with a little inconvenience to buy them and to get a permit to carry.

There is no need to make it any more difficult because no criminal would be able to buy a gun from a licensed dealer or qualify for a carry permit.

Except they do all the time, that's the problem. Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out the shooter had a criminal record or a history of mental illness and was still able to guy a gun.

Case in point, the guy who shot up the Fed Ex Facility and killed a bunch of Sihks. His own mother turned him in, because she thought he was dangerous. The cops took his gun. He was able to walk right into a gun store and buy more guns.

600 million guns in private hands....over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.......

More like 300 million.

We also have

39,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 BILLION in economic losses due to guns.

We have to rearrange our entire society around the "Some nut might come in and start shooting the place up!" because you fetishists don't want to take an extra 10 minutes to make sure that someone who shouldn't have a gun can't get one.

One could as easily accuse the gun grabbers of wanting the same thing because they get to run around and yell about grabbing guns, yet do nothing to actually prevent the violence in the first place. Take away the media sensationalism and they would have nothing to talk about and the issue would vanish.

Uh, guy, what "media sensationalism". We have 39,000 gun deaths a year. 106 people die every day from gun violence, and the vast majority of them don't make the news. Not unless it's something really spectacular like Sandy Hook.

The thing is, when we have a Sandy Hook, everyone gets upset, for about a day. The Gun Fetishists keep on this every day, which is why we don't get change even when babies are murdered.

Suicide isn't gun violence.
Suicide is not a crime
Suicide is a choice.

Mass shootings barely account for 1% of all murders.

So if you're actually going to address the real problems I'm happy to debate them but that fact that you seem to want to focus on things that aren't really going to make a difference in actual crime and murder rates you are just wasting my time

Not even close to 1%.....

Gun murder 2019.....20,235

Deaths in actual mass public shootings... ( someone do the math and tell us what percent of 10,235 the number 73 equals.....)

Ladder Safety......300 people die each year falling off of ladders.....about 100 die from lawn mower accidents....

Deer kill 200 people a year....
2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

http://

 

[2aguy]

Suicide isn't gun violence.
Suicide is not a crime
Suicide is a choice.

Mass shootings barely account for 1% of all murders.

So if you're actually going to address the real problems I'm happy to debate them but that fact that you seem to want to focus on things that aren't really going to make a difference in actual crime and murder rates you are just wasting my time

Hey, go talk to someone who lost a family member to suicide about how it's no big deal.

These are real problems, that the Gun Industry is benefiting from.

But, hey, you might have to wait a couple days or undergo some extra scrutiny before you can fulfill your fetish.. that's the important thing.

Go talk to someone who lost a family member who hanged themselves....you idiot....

We knew a girl who was dumped by her boyfriend...back in the 90s....she parked her car in a vacant lot, poured gasoline all over herself and set herself on fire...

You dumb ass....so don't drag bodies out when suicide is a mental health issue, not a gun issue...you idiot.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Hey, go talk to someone who lost a family member to suicide about how it's no big deal.

Nobody said that, but you and the gun-grabbing freedom haters are using their sad deaths for political fodder and we're calling out your fucking bullshit.

 

[2aguy]

Hey, go talk to someone who lost a family member to suicide about how it's no big deal.

Nobody said that, but you and the gun-grabbing freedom haters are using their sad deaths for political fodder and we're calling out your fucking bullshit.

Exactly.......

 

[JoeB131]

I never said it's no big deal it just isn't a crime or violence issue. And it certainly isn't a gun issue.

And the gun industry does not benefit from suicides.

No, they do benefit from mass shootings and crime, though. Gets all the scared little white guys frightened and they want more and more guns. And then pretty soon they have an arsenal big enough to fight off the Zombies, until Little Timmy offs himself becuase his girlfriend dumped him.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody said that, t.

That's exactly what he said.

 

[JoeB131]

You pretend the media doesn't sensationalize and politicize gun violence. Cute, but it doesn't address what I said about failing to do anything to prevent violence in the first place.

Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe it would be a good thing to make a bigger deal out of criminals shooting each other. You know, highlight how most gun murders are NOT gun owners going nuts and shooting their neighbors. Might get some attention in the right places. Or do we just want to keep it on the surface so we can pretend it's the wild wild west without delving into who is actually killing whom?

They sensationalize the things that are truly sensational.

A 6 year old shot because his mom gave a finger to a gun nut who cut her off is sensational.
A school full of kids getting shot is sensational.

Someone shooting his neighbor because of a dispute over snow, that barely rates.

3 Pennsylvania neighbors dead after fight over snow shoveling, authorities say

A fight that erupted over snow shoveling allegedly led to a Pennsylvania man shooting two of his neighbors to death before he died by suicide, authorities said.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Blues Man]

I never said it's no big deal it just isn't a crime or violence issue. And it certainly isn't a gun issue.

And the gun industry does not benefit from suicides.

No, they do benefit from mass shootings and crime, though. Gets all the scared little white guys frightened and they want more and more guns. And then pretty soon they have an arsenal big enough to fight off the Zombies, until Little Timmy offs himself becuase his girlfriend dumped him.

No they don't.

You know what they do benefit from?

Democrats and progressives pushing for gun control.

You people are the best gun salespeople of all time.

 

[JoeB131]

No they don't.

You know what they do benefit from?

Democrats and progressives pushing for gun control.

You people are the best gun salespeople of all time.

But most people wouldn't want a gun to start with if it wasn't so darned easy for the crooks to get them, that's the point.

The reality is, while the number of guns in circulation has increased, the number of households with guns in them had been on the decline for some time.

This is understandable. Hunting has gone largely out of fashion as a sport. Yes, murdering small animals is not considered as fun as it used to be.

So the Gun industry decided it needed a new market, and their new market is "Crazy people who think they need to stock up on guns because of Criminals and the Government". Kind of like the Booze industry realizing that causal drinking is declining, so let's double down on the hard core alcoholics.

 

[Blues Man]

No they don't.

You know what they do benefit from?

Democrats and progressives pushing for gun control.

You people are the best gun salespeople of all time.

But most people wouldn't want a gun to start with if it wasn't so darned easy for the crooks to get them, that's the point.

The reality is, while the number of guns in circulation has increased, the number of households with guns in them had been on the decline for some time.

View attachment 499088
This is understandable. Hunting has gone largely out of fashion as a sport. Yes, murdering small animals is not considered as fun as it used to be.

So the Gun industry decided it needed a new market, and their new market is "Crazy people who think they need to stock up on guns because of Criminals and the Government". Kind of like the Booze industry realizing that causal drinking is declining, so let's double down on the hard core alcoholics.

View attachment 499089

You are not the authority as to what most people want.


And in your world you'd be able to sue the liquor store owner because you're an alcoholic

 

[JoeB131]

You are not the authority as to what most people want.


And in your world you'd be able to sue the liquor store owner because you're an alcoholic

Actually, if the Liquor stores acted like the gun stores, that might not be a bad idea.

You know, you can sue a bar if the bar let you get sloppy drunk and then stumble out to your car. Most bartenders are required to take BASSET training to know when they have overserved a customer.

Not the gun stores, though; This guy can walk in and get an automatic rifle and a 100 round clip.

He looks perfectly normal to me.

 

[Blues Man]

You are not the authority as to what most people want.


And in your world you'd be able to sue the liquor store owner because you're an alcoholic

Actually, if the Liquor stores acted like the gun stores, that might not be a bad idea.

You know, you can sue a bar if the bar let you get sloppy drunk and then stumble out to your car. Most bartenders are required to take BASSET training to know when they have overserved a customer.

Not the gun stores, though; This guy can walk in and get an automatic rifle and a 100 round clip.

View attachment 499090
He looks perfectly normal to me.

Liquor stores sell more alcohol to people under 21 than licensed gun dealers sell guns to people who don't pass BG checks

 

[JoeB131]

Liquor stores sell more alcohol to people under 21 than licensed gun dealers sell guns to people who don't pass BG checks

And they get busted when they get caught doing it.

Frankly, it depends on enforcement level. There's a couple towns out here that card everyone. I mean, there's now way even Mr. Magoo could mistake me for a 19 year old, but I get carded anyway.

We need that level of enforcement with guns.

Earlier in the thread, I pointed out that there is a gun store in Indiana where 850 guns recovered in crimes in Chicago were bought from. You really going to tell me that guy doesn't know what's going on?

 

[Blues Man]

Liquor stores sell more alcohol to people under 21 than licensed gun dealers sell guns to people who don't pass BG checks

And they get busted when they get caught doing it.

Frankly, it depends on enforcement level. There's a couple towns out here that card everyone. I mean, there's now way even Mr. Magoo could mistake me for a 19 year old, but I get carded anyway.

We need that level of enforcement with guns.

Earlier in the thread, I pointed out that there is a gun store in Indiana where 850 guns recovered in crimes in Chicago were bought from. You really going to tell me that guy doesn't know what's going on?

IF they get caught.

And how many people give alcohol to underaged people? Is the liquor store owner responsible for that?

You want a double standard.

It's not enough for a licensed gun dealer to follow the law to the letter but he must also follow every person he sells a gun to for the rest of their lives just to make sure that no one uses that gun illegally right?

 

[JoeB131]

IF they get caught.

And how many people give alcohol to underaged people? Is the liquor store owner responsible for that?

You want a double standard.

It's not enough for a licensed gun dealer to follow the law to the letter but he must also follow every person he sells a gun to for the rest of their lives just to make sure that no one uses that gun illegally right?

Works for me. You start holding gun sellers responsible, they aren't going to sell to guys who think they are the Joker.

 

[Blues Man]

IF they get caught.

And how many people give alcohol to underaged people? Is the liquor store owner responsible for that?

You want a double standard.

It's not enough for a licensed gun dealer to follow the law to the letter but he must also follow every person he sells a gun to for the rest of their lives just to make sure that no one uses that gun illegally right?

Works for me. You start holding gun sellers responsible, they aren't going to sell to guys who think they are the Joker.

OK then let's have a limit on how much alcohol people can buy and BG checks so no liquor store owner sells to people who are alcoholics or have a history of drunk driving.

Then the liquor store owner must hire people to follow every patron around until all the liquor they bought has been consumed.

Alcohol kills more people than guns every year so it seems you should start your little crusade with that

 

[2aguy]

No they don't.

You know what they do benefit from?

Democrats and progressives pushing for gun control.

You people are the best gun salespeople of all time.

But most people wouldn't want a gun to start with if it wasn't so darned easy for the crooks to get them, that's the point.

The reality is, while the number of guns in circulation has increased, the number of households with guns in them had been on the decline for some time.

View attachment 499088
This is understandable. Hunting has gone largely out of fashion as a sport. Yes, murdering small animals is not considered as fun as it used to be.

So the Gun industry decided it needed a new market, and their new market is "Crazy people who think they need to stock up on guns because of Criminals and the Government". Kind of like the Booze industry realizing that causal drinking is declining, so let's double down on the hard core alcoholics.

View attachment 499089

Yeah.......another lie....

Even if you totally ignore the massive gun buying that happened last year with the largest number of new gun buyers in history, including minorities and women...you would still be wrong...

Considering, also, that gun owners who pay attention no longer answer anonymous phone calls or polls about owning guns.....

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/08/r...-guns-have-bought-one-in-the-last-six-months/

A new Rasmussen Report survey shows that 47 percent of American households own a gun, with 5 percent either not sure/refusing to answer the question. Assuming that 47 percent of those who aren’t sure or refusing to answer whether they own a gun actually do, half of American households own guns. (The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted August 5, 2020 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.)
While men were more likely than women to own a gun (54 to 41 percent) and whites were more likely than blacks (50 to 26 percent), those differences appear to be shrinking. Twenty-seven percent of household have bought a gun in the last five months. Women were more likely than men to buy a gun (32 to 23 percent), blacks were much more likely than whites (47 to 22 percent), and the young were much more likely than old (42 percent for those 18 to 39 versus 20 percent for those 40 to 64 and just 12 percent for those 65 and older).

 

[2aguy]

You are not the authority as to what most people want.


And in your world you'd be able to sue the liquor store owner because you're an alcoholic

Actually, if the Liquor stores acted like the gun stores, that might not be a bad idea.

You know, you can sue a bar if the bar let you get sloppy drunk and then stumble out to your car. Most bartenders are required to take BASSET training to know when they have overserved a customer.

Not the gun stores, though; This guy can walk in and get an automatic rifle and a 100 round clip.

View attachment 499090
He looks perfectly normal to me.

The gun store, you lying asshole.....has to do a mandatory criminal background check.......this guy passed it....your God...government, failed, not the gun store.

They did their job...your God failed.